Support NeoGAF

[Amiga]

More than just the repetitive Sci-Fi plot of confusing reality with dream. The similarities go deeper into the the story.
"Ubik" has a businessman hire a team for a special job and they end up lost between dream and reality. There is also the them of the dead wife. And the ending features an object that leads readers to question the apparent ending.

Inception was a great film. But not officially acknowledging Philip K Dick was cheap. Damages Christopher Nolan's integrity IMOO.

 

[LazyParrot]

To actually make this gaming related, they made an Ubik video game in the late 90s. From what I remember it sucked.

 

[Amiga]

To actually make this gaming related, they made an Ubik video game in the late 90s. From what I remember it sucked.

My mistake, posted to in the wrong place.

Hope a mod helps me move it.

 

[ZehDon]

Well, Ubik and Donald Duck.

 

[Wildebeest]

A lot of people have been influenced by Dick, he is a much bigger deal creatively than Nolan. Personally, I think that Inception is different enough from Ubik that it is not plagiarism, but Ubik is by far the superior story.

 

[NomenNescio]

The entertainment industry (music, films, videogames) is filled with what would be considered straight-up "plagiarism" in an academic context, even among its most renowed representatives.

Tarantino movies are essentially a collage of the movies he grew up with and loves (you can even find shot by shot replicas in some cases, he uses the same music, sometimes even the same actors (Franco Nero in Django Unchained, for example). Aronofsky used shots from Perfect Blue for Requiem for a Dream and Black Swan.

The Last of Us is a ripoff of Children of Men, The Road, and is "heavily inspired" by No Country for Old Men.

Go watch Alex Garland's "Anihilation" and then tell me it's not a ripoff of Tarkovski's "Stalker".

What about Jame$ Cameron's Avatar? Nice Pocahontas version. Pocahontas probably isn't original either.

And so on, so on.

Few, very few works today can be considered truly original content. That's not necesarily bad, most of the above are among my favorites of all time, but that doesn't change the fact that they're derivative. They come from very recognisable pieces that already existed.

 

[dr_octagon]

Star Trek Discovery allegedy stole the idea of a space tartigade from an indie developer.

I also don't know what the above words mean so here's a video.

 

[AlphaMale]

Didn't George Lucas basically copy the story of "Star Wars" from Akira Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress"?

 

[Amiga]

The entertainment industry (music, films, videogames) is filled with what would be considered straight-up "plagiarism" in an academic context, even among its most renowed representatives.

Tarantino movies are essentially a collage of the movies he grew up with and loves (you can even find shot by shot replicas in some cases, he uses the same music, sometimes even the same actors (Franco Nero in Django Unchained, for example). Aronofsky used shots from Perfect Blue for Requiem for a Dream and Black Swan.

The Last of Us is a ripoff of Children of Men, The Road, and is "heavily inspired" by No Country for Old Men.

Go watch Alex Garland's "Anihilation" and then tell me it's not a ripoff of Tarkovski's "Stalker".

What about Jame$ Cameron's Avatar? Nice Pocahontas version. Pocahontas probably isn't original either.

And so on, so on.

Few, very few works today can be considered truly original content. That's not necresarily bad, most of the above are among my favorites of all time, but that doesn't change the fact that they're derivative. They come from very recognisable pieces that already existed.

When there is a homage, inspiration or Easter Egg they are clear enough for viewers to see it as open and deliberate so it can be considered giving credit.
But copying another story to this extent without acknowledgment and taking all the praise as a clever genius is something else.

 

[Amiga]

Didn't George Lucas basically copy the story of "Star Wars" from Akira Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress"?

Difference is Lucas gave credit to the influence. That is the issue. I looked up Kurosawa way back then and collected some of his work because of this acknowledgment.

 

[NomenNescio]

When there is a homage, inspiration or Easter Egg they are clear enough for viewers to see it as open and deliberate so it can be considered giving credit.
But copying another story to this extent without acknowledgment and taking all the praise as a clever genius is something else.

I understand that, but the thing is, unlike academic work, there is no "citation" in their media. Directors openly talk about it in interviews, but within the films themselves there's no acknowledgement, at least as far as I know.

Is Perfect Blue quoted in Requiem for a Dream and Black Swan credits? What about Lady Snowblood and Thriller: A Cruel Picture in Kill Bill? I don't think so. Because if they did that they would most likely need to: a) Get license permissions, and b) Pay royalties or something like that from the earnings of the new picture.

 

[Wildebeest]

Didn't George Lucas basically copy the story of "Star Wars" from Akira Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress"?

He copied the gimmick of using peasants/droids as a framing device for the story. Probably the more legally dubious influences on Star Wars are Dune and DC comics "new gods".

 

[Amiga]

a) Get license permissions, and b) Pay royalties or something like that from the earnings of the new picture.

That is ultimately it. But Ridley Scott openly adapted PKD work for Blade Runner. Amazon officially adapted Man in the High castle.
Nolan made a cheap move here leading people on that Inception was original work. A "Nolan Movie" as it is described.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

I mean

 

[dr_octagon]

"Taking inspiration from others is Ubik-utous."
- Christoph Nolambs

"BBBBBBRBRBBBRBHHHBRB"
- Hanz Simmer

 

[mortal]

Some could argue that Nolan drew inspiration from Satoshi Kon for inception as well. His anime was highly influential for a surprising amount full of Hollywood directors.

I don't understand how this damages Nolan's integrity though. Are you upset because you've never heard him go on record to specifically list out his influences?

 

[ManaByte]

Star Trek Discovery allegedy stole the idea of a space tartigade from an indie developer.

Prelude to Axanar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Basically CBS decided to make the first season of DISCO about the Federation-Klingon war. But there was a problem, a high-budget fan film was being produced about that same thing. So CBS sued the fan film under stupid pretenses to shut it down so DISCO could be the only version of the war.

 

[dr_octagon]

The official 'talented writers' have managed to do a great job with the tv and films so far. Are we on the USS Potato timeline for some of the events now?

We should have gotten Galaxy Quest sequal and tv show instead.

 

[AJUMP23]

All artist borrow from everything.

 

[Doom85]

But here’s the issue: is it plagiarism if the writer of the latter work never read the original? Christopher Nolan isn’t responsible for reading/viewing/playing the millions of stories that come out each year made across all mediums, and when such an insane amount of stories come out each year, brace yourselves, some similarities are going to occur. Shocker, I know.

As big as an author as Dick might be, not everyone, even those who dabble in sci-if, have necessarily read all, if any, of his works. If anything, it sounds pretentious to automatically assume they have. Stephen King is probably the author I’ve read the most books from, yet I don’t think I’ve ever read over 25% of what he’s written.

And speaking of King, he had never seen The Simpsons Movie when he wrote Under the Dome. Again, this shouldn’t be considered plagiarism, because King shouldn’t be expected to know the plot of every film released each year, never mind every book, comic, manga, cartoon, anime, TV show, video game, etc. Hell, the whole “Simpsons Did It!” bit from South Park shows how stupid getting hung up on some similarities is.

 

[Amiga]

Some could argue that Nolan drew inspiration from Satoshi Kon for inception as well. His anime was highly influential for a surprising amount full of Hollywood directors.

I don't understand how this damages Nolan's integrity though. Are you upset because you've never heard him go on record to specifically list out his influences?

Inception was an uncredited adaptation of Ubik. Basically the same story with an altered setting. Not just a passive influence.

All artist borrow from everything.

Theft =/= borrow

But here’s the issue: is it plagiarism if the writer of the latter work never read the original? Christopher Nolan isn’t responsible for reading/viewing/playing the millions of stories that come out each year made across all mediums

Its the same procession of multiple plot points in a highly imaginative Sci-Fi novel. Coincidence is Improbable.

 

[ADiTAR]

Nothing is original, everything is a twist of something that exist.

You could argue if inspiration should be acknowledged.

 

[Kenpachii]

Pretty sure there are only x amount of plots when it comes to story's.

And there are millions of books. If i would make a book right now without reading anything, i am sure i "copied" somebody's part of a story.

 

[Doom85]

Its the same procession of multiple plot points in a highly imaginative Sci-Fi novel. Coincidence is Improbable.

Circumstantial evidence alone will get you nowhere, my friend…

 

[gaming_again]

Inception is way better than Ubik so I don’t care.

 

[thefool]

No, nor duck, much less paprika.

 

[FunkMiller]

Its the same procession of multiple plot points in a highly imaginative Sci-Fi novel. Coincidence is Improbable.

The Last Of Us and The Girl With All The Gifts have virtually identical plots. Both were made at the same time.

Sometimes, one piece of narrative fiction will resemble another. This does not mean plagiarism took place. It does exist of course, but similarities do not automatically mean plagiarism.

 

[Slicker than your average]

Inception shit let's be honest. Was ok on the first viewing but is pretty bad. Music's good though.

 

[Amiga]

The Last Of Us and The Girl With All The Gifts have virtually identical plots. Both were made at the same time.

Sometimes, one piece of narrative fiction will resemble another. This does not mean plagiarism took place. It does exist of course, but similarities do not automatically mean plagiarism.

Checked that out. WTF! it is the same basic plot. At least that movie credited MR Carey in the trailer.

Circumstantial evidence alone will get you nowhere, my friend…

Legally correct. But reputation is another thing. Did Nolan steal the ideas for Memento, Prestige, Tenent? I have doubts now.

 

[Wildebeest]

The sad thing is these "creative heroes" who are very stingy about acknowledging their inspirations even when they are very obvious. Like the writer of the Witcher, who refuses to acknowledge Moorcock's Elric as an inspiration when it is totally undeniable. Did Alan Moore ever admit the influence of Vonnegut's Sirens of Titan on Watchmen? I don't think so. I don't know if the writer of Arrival ever admitted that he was just riffing on Kurt Vonnegut's writing, but it was so obvious in that case it doesn't even seem like something that they are trying to hide and pass off as totally original.

 

[gaming_again]

The sad thing is these "creative heroes" who are very stingy about acknowledging their inspirations even when they are very obvious. Like the writer of the Witcher, who refuses to acknowledge Moorcock's Elric as an inspiration when it is totally undeniable. Did Alan Moore ever admit the influence of Vonnegut's Sirens of Titan on Watchmen? I don't think so. I don't know if the writer of Arrival ever admitted that he was just riffing on Kurt Vonnegut's writing, but it was so obvious in that case it doesn't even seem like something that they are trying to hide and pass off as totally original.

The writer of the Witcher is a weird guy. He seems to really dislike his own work.
I won’t hear a negative word about Ted Chiang.

 

[Amiga]

The sad thing is these "creative heroes" who are very stingy about acknowledging their inspirations even when they are very obvious. Like the writer of the Witcher, who refuses to acknowledge Moorcock's Elric as an inspiration when it is totally undeniable. Did Alan Moore ever admit the influence of Vonnegut's Sirens of Titan on Watchmen? I don't think so. I don't know if the writer of Arrival ever admitted that he was just riffing on Kurt Vonnegut's writing, but it was so obvious in that case it doesn't even seem like something that they are trying to hide and pass off as totally original.

The hiding is the unforgivable part in creative work. Checking out Moorcock's Elric wiki it shows plenty of acknowledgments :
"..Moorcock acknowledges the work of Bertolt Brecht, particularly Threepenny Novel and The Threepenny Opera, as "one of the chief influences" on the initial Elric sequence; he dedicated 1972's Elric of Melniboné to Brecht.[4][5] In the same dedication, he cited Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions and Fletcher Pratt's The Well of the Unicorn as similarly influential texts" this is how creators with integrity do it. those who don't are just unsecure imitators.

 

[Wildebeest]

The hiding is the unforgivable part in creative work. Checking out Moorcock's Elric wiki it shows plenty of acknowledgments :
"..Moorcock acknowledges the work of Bertolt Brecht, particularly Threepenny Novel and The Threepenny Opera, as "one of the chief influences" on the initial Elric sequence; he dedicated 1972's Elric of Melniboné to Brecht.[4][5] In the same dedication, he cited Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions and Fletcher Pratt's The Well of the Unicorn as similarly influential texts" this is how creators with integrity do it. those who don't are just unsecure imitators.

The question is sometimes about how selectively they talk about their influences to make themselves look good. Like Lucas talking about art films and Kurosawa as inspirations, but "forgetting" to mention contemporary science fiction novels and comic books. These people want to be seen as enigmatic artistic geniuses too badly.

 

[AlteredForms]

There were many inspirations with Nolan's Inception. Some being publically acknowledged whereas others not so much. The most notable one in my opinion is a 1998 film called Dark City by Alex Proyas, I would strongly recommend it to anybody who enjoyed Inception, The Matrix and other associated science-fiction.

 

[Jsisto]

Didn't George Lucas basically copy the story of "Star Wars" from Akira Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress"?

As someone else pointed out, Star Wars took a LOT of influence from Dune and most people don't even realize because Star Wars is undeniably the more known franchise. As a late comer to the Dune series, I was shocked as I was reading just how blatant some of the stuff is.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

As someone else pointed out, Star Wars took a LOT of influence from Dune and most people don't even realize because Star Wars is undeniably the more known franchise. As a late comer to the Dune series, I was shocked as I was reading just how blatant some of the stuff is.

Dune is like the LotR of Sci Fi. A foundational work that everything references. The only difference is everyone knows that about LotR. Doesn't seem like most people know it about Dune.

 

[Amiga]

The question is sometimes about how selectively they talk about their influences to make themselves look good. Like Lucas talking about art films and Kurosawa as inspirations, but "forgetting" to mention contemporary science fiction novels and comic books. These people want to be seen as enigmatic artistic geniuses too badly.

Good point. The Jedi "space cops" theme was predated by the forgotten pulp fiction series Lensmen (also copied more in the Green Lantern silver age reboot)

 

[NinjaBoiX]

I mean

I mean, the mirror part is really blatant, but the first one is pretty tenuous. What, there’s a corridor? But there’s no fight, it doesn’t rotate and it melts like it doesn’t at all in Inception?

And that last one, someone presses a button in an elevator? Come on man…

 

[Wildebeest]

Good point. The Jedi "space cops" theme was predated by the forgotten pulp fiction series Lensmen (also copied more in the Green Lantern silver age reboot)

Yeah, E.E. Doc Smith and "space opera" had a reputation for being less intelligent science fiction compared to the "hard science fiction big three" of Asimov/Clark/Heinlein. They became more promoted until they totally eclipsed the more popular work of Smith. And Star Wars is obviously much more space opera than hard science fiction.

 

[ntropy]

Difference is Lucas gave credit to the influence. That is the issue. I looked up Kurosawa way back then and collected some of his work because of this acknowledgment.

also, themes from John Williams' soundtrack of Star Wars are VERY similar to pieces by Holst, Stravinsky and Korngold

 

[Mr Hyde]

There were many inspirations with Nolan's Inception. Some being publically acknowledged whereas others not so much. The most notable one in my opinion is a 1998 film called Dark City by Alex Proyas, I would strongly recommend it to anybody who enjoyed Inception, The Matrix and other associated science-fiction.

Dark City is so fucking good. One of the best sci Fi movies ever. The Crow is fantastic as well. Such a shame what happened to Alex Proyas creative output, he was one of the most promising directors of the 90s in my opinion. I think Brandon Lees death messed with him big time. And fucking Hollywood.

 

[kurisu_1974]

Didn't George Lucas basically copy the story of "Star Wars" from Akira Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress"?

And all the art from French Valerian comics.

 

[Alter_Fridge]

Dark City is so fucking good. One of the best sci Fi movies ever. The Crow is fantastic as well. Such a shame what happened to Alex Proyas creative output, he was one of the most promising directors of the 90s in my opinion. I think Brandon Lees death messed with him big time. And fucking Hollywood.

Speaking of Alex Proyas, I snuck into his Dark City follow up Garage Days with one of the hottest girls (sports model type) I've ever dated when I was 20.

You just made me remember her. Come to think of it, I think her name may have also been Alex. Those were teh

Spoiler

garage

dayz

 

[mcjmetroid]

And this is why we largely have remakes and reboots forever. Whenever someone tries a new IP you need accusations of plagerism because with the internet everything is accessible and everything has been done before.

There is other reasons of course but it's very very hard to be completely original in the modern age it's much easier to avoid all this by making a spinoff or remake of an existing property.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 1:9, circa 300 BCE

 

[SirKicksalot]

And the killer stalking the team, and the decaying dreamworld, and the reproduced objects made of wrong materials...

They share many similarities. Ubik is so much better and more impactful though. I wish that Michel Gondry movie came out. If an adaptation ever comes out it better include Dick's idea of a degrading film stock that eventually falls apart completely.