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Diesel Cars

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ForzaItalia

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I've always been a diesel whore. Probably started with my dad being a disel truck mechanic and also owning a few diesel dump trucks. This also carried over into various Benz diesel cars that he owned and I have as well. I know many people don't like diesel vehicles for numerous reasons but with gas prices soaring (including diesel) nobody can deny the mileage advantage per tank that they offer. How many of you currently own a diesel car or plan on buying one? I'm currently looking at these two at the moment:


2004 Jetta TDI Sport Edition
04jetta_tdi_1.jpg



2004 Passat TDI
04passat_tdi_1.jpg
 
Nope, I've heard nothing about it. I researched like a madman before I got my car, but afterwards I didn't really care that much. www.tdiclub.com is the best place I found for enthusiasts, and they can probably answer all your questions there.
 
ForzaItalia said:
The 2004 Jetta Sport Edition seems quite pricey here. Heard anything about it?
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It's not that pricey if you run into the BJ Queen of Montreal as often as some of us here do.

But are the diesel Jettas any more reliable than the standard gasoline models? i was so set on getting a Jetta until i heard about all the problems they have... from people online, customers of mine, coworkers... The 2005 and possibly 2004 seem to be much less problematic, but i really can't afford that recent a year.
 
aoi tsuki said:
It's not that pricey if you run into the BJ Queen of Montreal as often as some of us here do.

But are the diesel Jettas any more reliable than the standard gasoline models? i was so set on getting a Jetta until i heard about all the problems they have... from people online, customers of mine, coworkers... The 2005 and possibly 2004 seem to be much less problematic, but i really can't afford that recent a year.
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Well here's a review on the 2004:

Link
 
You can get some older Benz's 1986-1989 for around that money. Look for, 300 TD, 300 D, 350 SD, 350 SDL, 300 SD or 300 SDL for starters.
 
My wife & I have a 2001 VW New Beetle TDI with almost 99,000 miles on it. It's chipped (Upsolute.) We normally get 38-42MPG in mixed driving. Best we ever did was just under 50MPG, we drove 670 miles on one tank of gas from just outside Key West to a bit South of South of the Border on I-95.
 
ForzaItalia said:
You can get some older Benz's 1986-1989 for around that money. Look for, 300 TD, 300 D, 350 SD, 350 SDL, 300 SD or 300 SDL for starters.
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However, avoid the 190 D at all costs. Apparently it's the worst car Mercedes-Benz has ever made.
 
I have been closely eyeing the Golf TDI but sadly you can no longer sell diesel comuter cars in California, that fucking sucks that a an asshole who hauls nothing in his F350 can buy a diesel but I can't

I still want one but that isn't likely to work out :(
 
SteveMeister said:
My wife & I have a 2001 VW New Beetle TDI with almost 99,000 miles on it. It's chipped (Upsolute.) We normally get 38-42MPG in mixed driving. Best we ever did was just under 50MPG, we drove 670 miles on one tank of gas from just outside Key West to a bit South of South of the Border on I-95.
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I get 30MPG in my petrol 330 BMW automatic.

Diesel savings are overrated IMO. I don't know about pricing in the US, but in the UK Diesel is more expensive than unleaded petrol due to it being a dirtier fuel. Diesel cars are often slightly more expensive than petrol equivalents too.

But thats supposed to be offset by better mileage.

I think there were studies done that, unless you were a big motorway driver doing at least 15-20k miles a year, you would find it hard to make up the difference in cost over 3 years.

Plus they sound like tractors and kick out nasty black soot (I know newer ones are better, but they just sound like small tractors, and *still* kick out black soot)
 
mrklaw said:
I get 30MPG in my petrol 330 BMW automatic.

Diesel savings are overrated IMO. I don't know about pricing in the US, but in the UK Diesel is more expensive than unleaded petrol due to it being a dirtier fuel. Diesel cars are often slightly more expensive than petrol equivalents too.

But thats supposed to be offset by better mileage.

I think there were studies done that, unless you were a big motorway driver doing at least 15-20k miles a year, you would find it hard to make up the difference in cost over 3 years.

Plus they sound like tractors and kick out nasty black soot (I know newer ones are better, but they just sound like small tractors, and *still* kick out black soot)
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Well, for comparison, my other car is a Beetle convertible with a 1.8l turbo engine. The best I've done in that is around 335 miles on a tank, around 24mpg, and it takes premium gas. Diesel prices fluctuate differently from gasoline -- sometimes it's as much as premium, sometimes it's as much as regular. But we're talking a minimum of an extra 200 miles on one tank of gas for the diesel. That is not insignificant.
 
Just this Monday I bought a 2001 Skoda Octavia Elegance 1.9TDi.

rear.jpg
front1.jpg
front2.jpg


And the manufacturer's mileage numbers are 59mpg combined mileage. Which sounds pretty reasonable to me. :)
 
Hitman said:
Diesel sounds pretty good, what exactly ARE the disadvantages?
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Diesel fuel is smelly and messy -- you really need paper towels or those cheap plastic gloves they have at the gas stations, diesel cars are generally louder than gas engines -- although they are much better than they used to be, diesel fuel isn't sold at every gas station so you have to be aware of where it IS available, and diesel emits more particulates than gas engines, resulting in smoke and soot (though again, newer engines are much, much better, and in 2007 the US is transitioning over to lower sulfur diesel which will go a long way towards helping that.)

One other advantage of diesel cars -- you can use biodiesel, if you can find a dealer, without modifying the car.
 
SteveMeister said:
Diesel fuel is smelly and messy [...] and diesel emits more particulates than gas engines, resulting in smoke and soot
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What do you do to your diesel cars? The ones I've driven, the fuel stays on the inside, and there's no huge amount of soot and smoke. There was a fair amount of noise from the one I learnt to drive in, but that was a 1983 model. :)
 
The main advantage with diesel is bio diesel and gas milage, but if you think exxon mobile is gonna let that happen you can forget it, gas is gonna be number 1 source of trans fuel in the US for a while for a reason muthafuckas are rollin in the money.
 
DonasaurusRex said:
The main advantage with diesel is bio diesel and gas milage, but if you think exxon mobile is gonna let that happen you can forget it, gas is gonna be number 1 source of trans fuel in the US for a while for a reason muthafuckas are rollin in the money.
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I don't think they profit any less from diesel, and even here in CA where diesel passenger cars are scarce, most big stations offer Diesel #2 in addition to three grades of gasoline. The problem is that it is more expensive to produce than gas, so without the tax breaks that most European countries give to diesel, it will also be more expensive to we as consumers.

As I wrote in another thread, US gasoline is taxed at around 35-40%. Diesel is no different. But if California really wanted to do something eco-minded, they would drop their state taxes on diesel and relax their emissions laws (they're ridiculous anyway, diesel produces fewer harmful emissions than gasoline). Then we could really be the forward-looking state we're supposed to be, rather than just a duplicitous bureaucratic hellhole.
 
iapetus said:
What do you do to your diesel cars? The ones I've driven, the fuel stays on the inside, and there's no huge amount of soot and smoke. There was a fair amount of noise from the one I learnt to drive in, but that was a 1983 model. :)
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Ever fill up the tank? The pumps are almost always covered with gunk -- even in the nicest gas stations. This is 100% -- I've had a diesel car for 4 years now, almost 100,000 miles. I have not found a clean diesel pump.

It's not a huge amount of soot & smoke, but it is there. Certainly nowhere near as bad as diesels used to be, where the entire back end of the car would be blackened.
 
When the pollution of even the best diesel gas approached that of regular unleaded, then I'll consider it.
 
Phoenix said:
When the pollution of even the best diesel gas approached that of regular unleaded, then I'll consider it.
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I was under the impression that biodiesel emissions were pretty good. Not so?

A few months ago I was trying to do some research on turbo diesel engines and where they are today in terms of technology and progress but couldn't find any info. Anybody have any good links or information on them?
 
TheOMan said:
I was under the impression that biodiesel emissions were pretty good. Not so?
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Well I haven't spotted biodiesel at any gas stations anywhere ;) Biodiesel emissions ARE supposed to be good, however.
 
Phoenix said:
Well I haven't spotted biodiesel at any gas stations anywhere ;) Biodiesel emissions ARE supposed to be good, however.
Click to expand...

Click & learn

Site's slow and a bit too fancy for its own good, but it has everything you ever wanted to know about biodiesel, but were afraid to ask.
 
There is one gas station (or I should say 'fueling site') within 70 miles of Atlanta that has bio diesel. The next one after that has 100 miles. The gas station which has biodiesel "in" atlanta is 38.5 miles away from me. So for all practical purposes, there is no biodiesel here :)
 
Phoenix said:
When the pollution of even the best diesel gas approached that of regular unleaded, then I'll consider it.
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From what I understand, it is comparable (atleast my TDI is). It depends on how you measure your pollution. If you go the california way and measure by parts per million, Diesel is much worse. However, because TDIs put out less actual exhaust than their gasoline counterparts (I don't know where the soot claims are coming from), the amount of pollution actually put into the atmosphere is slightly less than the gasoline counterpart.

Note: the only time I've ever had soot come out of my engine was when it was first starting and I slammed down on the accelerator.
 
diesels are still pretty dirty and noisy. I drove a BMW 120d for a few days, and it sounded like a London taxi (imagine tractor or lawnmower) - and BMW have some of the best engine tech.

and they still blow out puffs of black smoke when you put your foot down or change gears etc. Even the later, cleaner ones, and good manufacturers like VW Passats and Mercedes/BMW. They aren't 'clean', they are just 'less dirty'




One upside is you do get lots of torque at low revs. You'll get shat on by a higher BHP car at the lights, but once you're moving - overtaking etc is usually much better in a similarly powered diesel. But they run really low revs, which takes some getting used to.
 
ForzaItalia said:
Anyone else going diesel?
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It's not really practical in the US yet, and particularly where I live, because there are literally no new diesel passenger cars on sale. The dealers sometimes get used ones, but then they won't budge an inch on their inflated price-tags because they know there is a) no competition and b) pretty decent demand.

If the European diesel Honda CR-V had been available here when I bought my Element, I would have got it in a heartbeat. In a way, diesel is right for America, because we like torquey engines, but it's just not right yet.
 
Just a FYI, the 2006 Jetta TDI is now available. Several dealers in the Washington DC metro area have them in stock & ready to go.

jetta4dr-tdi.jpg
 
SteveMeister said:
Just a FYI, the 2006 Jetta TDI is now available. Several dealers in the Washington DC metro area have them in stock & ready to go.

jetta4dr-tdi.jpg
Click to expand...

Yes I've heard the reviews and many people are raving about them. 5 cylinders though and some people dislike that.
 
I was reading something about cars getting their fuel systems converted to using vegetable oil or something like that. Conversion is 800 bucks, but the fuel is basically free...you just get the stuff from any resturant that dumps this stuff in a vat. It sounds made up, but since I read it in a paper on Friday it must be true. I guess.
 
1. Yes, you can make fuel from used veggie oil. See the biodiesel.org website.

2. Diesel engines are typically less horsepower than gas engines of the same size. Non-turbo diesel engines are often pretty wimpy.

3. Diesel-engine emissions are typically heavier particles than gas-engine emissions. The particles go down and make things dirty, rather than go up in the atmosphere and lead to global warming. So pick your poison, basically. Also, US diesel fuel is usually "dirtier" than Euro diesel fuel, I believe.
 
Diesel Particulate Filters will take care of the emission. I hear they are very impressive. They just need to become standard.

Anyways diesel engines continue to evolve and now with another oil crisis we'll probably see more advancements.


edit. advancements like the new crystal injection system.

- Piezo injection system. Quieter, cleaner and more horsepower. The new Jetta has it.
http://www.siemensvdo.com/com/pressarticle2004.asp?ArticleID=200411_007e

Does anyone have some data/article on those filters?
 
So I am pretty much all set to buy a 2006 Jetta TDI but am unsure as to whether or not I should get the beige leather or the grey leather interior. I'm worried that the beige will get dirty and show scuff marks as opposed to the grey one.

Any opinions on this?

2006-Volkswagen-Jetta-pic-27-2310649.JPG

2006_Volkswagen_Jetta_2.5_rear2.jpg

Volkswagen-Jetta-2006-012.jpg
 
ForzaItalia said:
So I am pretty much all set to buy a 2006 Jetta TDI but am unsure as to whether or not I should get the beige leather or the grey leather interior. I'm worried that the beige will get dirty and show scuff marks as opposed to the grey one.

Any opinions on this?
Click to expand...

I have beige leather in my New Beetle Convertible. No problems with dirt, but then the dogs aren't allowed in it, my wife doesn't take it to the barn, etc.
 
The Golf 2006 TDI looks nice. I'm hearing that 50% of the cars now sold in Europe are diesel because it is so much cheaper than regular gas. Is this true?

Thanks for the info on the beige leather SteveMeister.
 
ForzaItalia said:
The Golf 2006 TDI looks nice. I'm hearing that 50% of the cars now sold in Europe are diesel because it is so much cheaper than regular gas. Is this true?
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Price may vary depending on the country, but gas is over €1 per litre so diesels are really popular. Cheaper+better fuel economy=win.

Keep in mind that euro diesel is different from the one of the US, and so are the engines (quieter and cleaner)
 
one major issue is Golf and Jetta are built in Mexico, while Passat and Touareg are built in Germany. I've heard of construction problems with recent Jettas, so buyer beware.
 
element said:
one major issue is Golf and Jetta are built in Mexico, while Passat and Touareg are built in Germany. I've heard of construction problems with recent Jettas, so buyer beware.
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VW quality has gone to shit globally, the Mexican units are not the only faulty ones. Latest VAG cars made in Europe have been plagued with all kinds of electric nuisances and odd problems like windows falling off (seriously)

Of course this is not normal and chances to get a good one over a lemon are still greater. They are just not "precise German engineering" anymore.
 
Yes I recently noticed the "Made in Mexico" thing about the 2006 Jetta TDI I want to buy and wasn't too pleased. I sort of wished it was made in Germany but what to do....

Funky Papa said:
Price may vary depending on the country, but gas is over €1 per litre so diesels are really popular. Cheaper+better fuel economy=win.

Keep in mind that euro diesel is different from the one of the US, and so are the engines (quieter and cleaner)
Click to expand...

Sunoco here in Canada offers a "Gold Diesel" that is supposedly a higher grade from the diesels sold at other gas stations. I think the Jetta diesel engine was restructured in 2004 and is quieter and cleaner in North America too from what I hear.
 
ForzaItalia said:
Sunoco here in Canada offers a "Gold Diesel" that is supposedly a higher grade from the diesels sold at other gas stations. I think the Jetta diesel engine was restructured in 2004 and is quieter and cleaner in North America too from what I hear.
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Could be possible, although I noticed that VW offers less diesel engines in the US, so I don't really know what are you getting. I think that Canada was getting more "euro" cars but I am not sure.
 
Could be.

BTW, the new Jetta is niiiceeeee. Just don't expect a lot of leg space in the rear seats. Other than that it is every bit as good as the new Golf (well, it's an enlarged new Golf!) The new Passat is a great option too if you are looking for something bigger.
 
The Passat is a bit out of my price range but it does look damn sweet. I was also looking at a 2005 Passat TDI with 10,000 km on it but they wanted $37,000 before taxes on it. :S

P.S. The new 2006 Jetta I want in that smoke grey colour with the beige leather interior. I think the beige leather looks better than the grey leather. More style to it.
 
Clear beige for the win.

30.jpg

31.jpg


I don't know about you, but I am a dirty pig. The less dust I have to clean, the better, and clear leather makes it harder to notice.
 
Nice shots. :D

There is a certain style you get with the clear beige that you don't with the grey. Plus I don't like the grey on grey clash with the exterior colour of the car I'm buying.
 
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