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[Buggy Loop]

FSR1 by itself doesn't do sharpening. It is basically an imprudent of the the lazcos algorithm, but with Edge-Adaptive Spatial Upsampling.
EASU analyzes the input frame at the lower resolution and detects gradient reversals, essentially identifying edges and fine details in the image and then uses that information to upscale.
The sharpening comes from RCAS algorithm. Although these are usually together, they are not the same.

Well I mean they are probably using the RCAS too because SMAA tends to go on blurrier side sadly, I think that would be the #1 reason I am looking to complement SMAA with another solution. Combined with the edge spatial upsampling I think it could be an interesting combo.

The image quality is really not an issue here

Had DF not mentionned the solution nobody would have cared



We have TAA, FSR2 and even DLSS solutions with a shitload more artifacts than any of the above in the video. The worst offender of artifacts in that video is their choice of shadowing.

What I do notice is the absence of smearing and ghosting For a game spamming the screen with debris as a fundamental game mechanic, seems like kind of important.

 

[LordOcidax]

Much like I'm going to find you in every Nintendo thread running defence the moment anything negative is being said. I just don't agree with you labeling everyone a hater, it's unhealthy for any discussion to be had. If they're all haters, what does that make you?

Lol, everything is turned into something negative here, especially when it comes to Nintendo or Microsoft. Criticism and Trolling are different things and is easy to spot which is one. Example, the image quality in this game is really good and was pointed by a lot of people before this video in old threads… now DF discovers that the game uses FSR 1 because a documentation otherwise they probably thought it was using DLSS or the Nintendo own upscaled method… And now you see bunch of people saying that Nintendo is cheap because they didn't use DLSS despite of having great results with FSR 1 and DK.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Cyberpunk 2077 is a significantly bigger file size,had a shorter development time and looks significantly better.

Fast Fusion is a much faster game than DKB and is a example of DLSS not being used properly which makes it a terrible comparison.

Again, not understanding of how AA works

Fast Fusion is relatively stable for much of the center of the screen



Destruction geometry and particles everywhere at at instant. Even Fast fusion doesn't have that kind of rapid change of scenery. The rock formation from a distance even at 1000 mph is not suddenly in your face.

Go and debate on /r/fucktaa rather than waste my time

 

[MSduderino]

The tech issues are bad imo and I don't get the feeling the gameplay in the bland looking and sparse world can overcome the tech issues.

Nintendo MUST have seen Astrobot while making DK, and imo this pales in comparison to Astro from the looks of it.

I might have to return my order unopened

Obviously, astro has some technical prowess over DKB running on better hardware. But the gameplay in DKB looks better (or at least more complex). Like in Odyssey, DK has a more varied move set than astro bot. I loved Astro (my GOTY) but think this is going to be a lot better and I'm surprised you think it looks bad in comparison.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

If you that sensitive over technical shortcoming then how the fuck did you play Elden Ring or any other FROM games? Did you skip those games as well?

Elden Ring ran good enough on my PC and Pro.

 

[yogaflame]

Obviously, astro has some technical prowess over DKB running on better hardware. But the gameplay in DKB looks better (or at least more complex). Like in Odyssey, DK has a more varied move set than astro bot. I loved Astro (my GOTY) but think this is going to be a lot better and I'm surprised you think it looks bad in comparison.

DKB looks fun, but for now, I still give the goat status to Astrobot for this generation.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Again, not understanding of how AA works

Fast Fusion is relatively stable for much of the center of the screen



Destruction geometry and particles everywhere at at instant. Even Fast fusion doesn't have that kind of rapid change of scenery. The rock formation from a distance even at 1000 mph is not suddenly in your face.

Go and debate on /r/fucktaa rather than waste my time

And looking like s SW1 game....

 

[MSduderino]

DKB looks fun, but for now, I still give the goat status to Astrobot for this generation.

Me, too. Tomorrow, that may change.

 

[LordOcidax]

And looking like s SW1 game....

Lol, this game was never going to run at 60fps on Switch 1 and you know that… Even at 30 with cuts in details.

 

[Tajaz2426]

Me thinks, my grandbabies are not going to care about the issues with it. It looks like a shitty SW1 game, but I won't be playing it, so I believe it's good enough for them.

They care more about the silly characters and learning to play it as they are 3 and 6. I'll snag it up.

 

[LordOcidax]

DKB looks fun, but for now, I still give the goat status to Astrobot for this generation.

The last time i checked the GOAT of platformers in Gen 9 was Odyssey… If we are talking about metacritics scores of course.

 

[winjer]

Well I mean they are probably using the RCAS too because SMAA tends to go on blurrier side sadly, I think that would be the #1 reason I am looking to complement SMAA with another solution. Combined with the edge spatial upsampling I think it could be an interesting combo.

SMAA only causes blur in two instances. When it's not native implementation, so it also affects the HUD elements.
And when it's used as a temporal version. You might remember a game like Crysis 3, that had SMAA, SMAA 2Tx and SMAA4X.
The SMAA2Tx is a temporal version. And it was slightly blurrier than the other two. But still nothing as bad as TAA.
The AA method that really made image quality much blurrier, was FXAA.
There was also a version of these techniques, that was a bit better called MLAA, developed by Sony.

The image quality is really not an issue here

Had DF not mentionned the solution nobody would have cared



We have TAA, FSR2 and even DLSS solutions with a shitload more artifacts than any of the above in the video. The worst offender of artifacts in that video is their choice of shadowing.

What I do notice is the absence of smearing and ghosting For a game spamming the screen with debris as a fundamental game mechanic, seems like kind of important.

I agree, if people hadn't seen this DF video, few people would complain.
SMAA does a decent job of improving pixel coverage and FSR1 does a decent job of upscaling.
All without the problems of TAA, such as ghosting, blurriness, and disocclusion artifacts.

 

[yogaflame]

Me, too. Tomorrow, that may change.

I still need hands on experience with DKB. We shall see.

The last time i checked the GOAT of platformers in Gen 9 was Odyssey… If we are talking about metacritics scores of course.

Wow that is a hard choice between Odyssey and Astrobot when it comes to goat status.

 

[MSduderino]

my grandbabies

Wow, there's a grandparent gaf...

 

[Fafalada]

What I do notice is the absence of smearing and ghosting

You'd be getting along really well with that anti UE channel now ;P

Seriously though - I do agree that visual direction choices free of temporal artifacting getting default dunked on by mainstream discourse is a problem - the first reaction to this shouldn't be 'but but DLSS' - it's like we're actively advocating for developer creative censorship in modern gaming.

Now in fairness - there 'are' superior methods to 'SMAA' for image treatment that still avoids smearing the image temporal-style(and doesn't cost arm and a leg MSAA style) - some of us learned the hard way when trying to do good VR. Others just shipped smeared VR to N-th degree (I'm looking at UE and IDTech here mostly).
But part of the problem is that talent that actually understands the inner workings of these is exceedingly hard to come by - easier to just treat your AA/upscaling as black boxes you toggle on/off and not your problem from there on. I bet advent of AI coders will really take that 'abundance' of understanding to the next level too...

 

[LordOcidax]

I still need hands on experience with DKB. We shall see.

Wow that is a hard choice between Odyssey and Astrobot when it comes to goat status.

Is a matter of preferences, both are master pieces.

 

[Tajaz2426]

Wow, there's a grandparent gaf...

Yeah, us Gen X fuckers still enjoy video games. I'm sure there are some older bros than me on here, as I'm only 45, that still game.

 

[GigaBowser]

oderysey with destuktion so better thens odersey

 

[LordOcidax]

SMAA only causes blur in two instances. When it's not native implementation, so it also affects the HUD elements.
And when it's used as a temporal version. You might remember a game like Crysis 3, that had SMAA, SMAA 2Tx and SMAA4X.
The SMAA2Tx is a temporal version. And it was slightly blurrier than the other two. But still nothing as bad as TAA.
The AA method that really made image quality much blurrier, was FXAA.
There was also a version of these techniques, that was a bit better called MLAA, developed by Sony.



I agree, if people hadn't seen this DF video, few people would complain.
SMAA does a decent job of improving pixel coverage and FSR1 does a decent job of upscaling.
All without the problems of TAA, such as ghosting, blurriness, and disocclusion artifacts.

Even DF knows about the use of FSR 1 thanks to the credits, they had 0 idea of the method used and probably would be guessing too without that.

 

[Mozza]

Super positive overall. Sounds like he absolutely loved the game.

That was my take but some on here see it differently.

Mostly graphic whores in gaming forums, most people won't even pay attention to it.

So basically nobody then.

 

[Mozza]

I think this thread finally broke LordOcidax . Take it easy, nobody's taking your game copy away. It's ok for people to criticize something you like, I swear you'll be fine.

I think it's fun that some hare on every single Switch 2 related thread. And even more funny when the console continues to sell and so do these games they hate.

 

[Fafalada]

The SMAA2Tx is a temporal version. And it was slightly blurrier than the other two. But still nothing as bad as TAA.

SMAA2Tx is literally SMAA filter + Temporal subsamples added on top. The spatial filter is orthogonal and in most cases doesn't really do anything to the image TAA doesn't already, but that was discovered years later. Point being, f anything - it could blur the image more, not less.
And what the temporal component does is down to the specific math - there's a bunch of variability even in CE titles, let alone other engines - I know it's tempting to lob all 'TAA' into one bucket but it's a lot more nuanced than that.

The days the AA algorithm being defined by specific math sequence are decades behind us - everything from 10s onwards is referring to 'families' of approaches, with a lot of space in between for variable results. Even the Machine learning blackboxes are not nearly as predictable/reliable as people want to argue.

 

[DeVeAn]

that's not criticism, it's ignorance and/or stupidity.

criticism is saying the Pro controller is overpriced junk when compared to competing controllers (which it is), or that the Joycons have awful ergonomics.

ignorance/stupidity is saying the Switch 2 is a Switch 1 Pro.

If calling it a Switch Pro is truly "ignorant/stupid," it's wild how much it rattled you. It's a valid take—same ecosystem, hybrid setup, same controller layout, just upgraded internals.

But hey, if it helps you sleep at night, feel free to keep handing out your Official Criticism Licenses™. Just don't act surprised when others don't need your permission to form opinions.

 

[LordOcidax]

If calling it a Switch Pro is truly "ignorant/stupid," it's wild how much it rattled you. It's a valid take—same ecosystem, hybrid setup, same controller layout, just upgraded internals.

But hey, if it helps you sleep at night, feel free to keep handing out your Official Criticism Licenses™. Just don't act surprised when others don't need your permission to form opinions.

Is not a valid argument, the Switch 2 can't even run Switch 1 games natively… Is not even the same hardware architecture. And by your logic the PS5 is a PS4 Pro 2…

 

[Lokaum D+]

The shills have spoken, its amazing, nothing to see here.

 

[kevboard]

If calling it a Switch Pro is truly "ignorant/stupid," it's wild how much it rattled you. It's a valid take—same ecosystem, hybrid setup, same controller layout, just upgraded internals.

But hey, if it helps you sleep at night, feel free to keep handing out your Official Criticism Licenses™. Just don't act surprised when others don't need your permission to form opinions.

the only way it is valid to say that is if you also think the PS5 is a PS4 Pro and that the Series X is an Xbox One Pro.

this would then mean that the actual PS4 Pro would be like... a PS4+ I guess? and the One X would be the One S+... as by your definition of a pro console these wouldn't even register as a Pro, especially not the PS4 Pro.
oh and the PS5 Pro might as well just be a PS5 Slim then by your definition.

so sure, it's valid to call it a Switch Pro, but only if your view on consoles and generations is extremely weird, to the point where a generational jump would need at least an 8x GPU improvement I guess... as the estimated 7x GPU improvement of the Switch 2 is apparently not enough. which automatically makes the 5.8x jump of the PS5 over the PS4 also fall beneath your threshold.

 

[LordOcidax]

The shills have spoken, its amazing, nothing to see here.

I was missing you in this thread . Now is complete.

 

[Xdrive05]

Already have a new patch out for this game. Wonder if DF will assess what changes were made?

 

[Dacvak]

Already have a new patch out for this game. Wonder if DF will assess what changes were made?

If there's anything that changes the performance or rendering tech, I guarantee they will. But it might be relegated to a DF direct or something.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Lol, this game was never going to run at 60fps on Switch 1 and you know that… Even at 30 with cuts in details.

It's not 60fps on SW2 either.

 

[LordOcidax]

It's not 60fps on SW2 either.

 

[Senua]

Already have a new patch out for this game. Wonder if DF will assess what changes were made?

Strange they even bothered, as most of the people in this thread seem fine with the game how it was!

 

[Arsic]

Should digital foundry not cover Nintendo games then do you think because it's not right to criticise them for technical shortcomings. It's funny you all made fun of the recent thread "Nintendo gets a free pass" but it's looking like that's exactly what you guys are doing with this one

Heck no. Criticize all you want. Some people jerk off to pixels and fps. Totally cool.

But also if you buy a happy meal don't expect the toy in there to be the same as ordering a $500 figurine off a collectors website.

 

[fran.fernandez]

My son like to play it . We have a Nintendo store 3 blocks from home and they leave it with donkey Kong . Sadly is connect on 65 4ktv. Look like shit but fun!

 

[DeVeAn]

Is not a valid argument, the Switch 2 can't even run Switch 1 games natively… Is not even the same hardware architecture. And by your logic the PS5 is a PS4 Pro 2…

Yep. Others have said ps5 is a ps4 pro+. Opinions how do they work.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Doesn't matter anyway right?

 

[DeVeAn]

the only way it is valid to say that is if you also think the PS5 is a PS4 Pro and that the Series X is an Xbox One Pro.

this would then mean that the actual PS4 Pro would be like... a PS4+ I guess? and the One X would be the One S+... as by your definition of a pro console these wouldn't even register as a Pro, especially not the PS4 Pro.
oh and the PS5 Pro might as well just be a PS5 Slim then by your definition.

so sure, it's valid to call it a Switch Pro, but only if your view on consoles and generations is extremely weird, to the point where a generational jump would need at least an 8x GPU improvement I guess... as the estimated 7x GPU improvement of the Switch 2 is apparently not enough. which automatically makes the 5.8x jump of the PS5 over the PS4 also fall beneath your threshold.

Bro, it's just my opinion — I don't need your approval for it to be valid. I get that technically it's more than just a "Pro" upgrade, but based on what we've seen so far — especially with Donkey Kong — it still feels like a Switch Pro to me. You're diving deep into specs and semantics, and I'm just calling it how it looks right now.

 

[Thief1987]

Some dips and the use of fsr 1 doesn't make the game "unplayable" like some people here are pretending… for a reason have a 91. 99% runs at locked 60.

You wrote at least a dozen of posts in PSSR related threads about how you hate upscaling techs. But then tune suddenly changed - firstly it was "but it's dlss", now you are perfectly ok with the bottom of the low fsr1. Damn fanboys do you have any self-consciousness and shame?

 

[GigaBowser]

Bro, it's just my opinion — I don't need your approval for it to be valid. I get that technically it's more than just a "Pro" upgrade, but based on what we've seen so far — especially with Donkey Kong — it still feels like a Switch Pro to me. You're diving deep into specs and semantics, and I'm just calling it how it looks right now.

nintendo use power for deructimble best dev in world game over

 

[kevboard]

Bro, it's just my opinion — I don't need your approval for it to be valid. I get that technically it's more than just a "Pro" upgrade, but based on what we've seen so far — especially with Donkey Kong — it still feels like a Switch Pro to me. You're diving deep into specs and semantics, and I'm just calling it how it looks right now.

that still means that the PS5 must be barely even a PS4 Pro in your opinion then.
nearly all PS5 games can easily be ported to PS4, but there are already games out and announced on Switch 2 that would be impossible to port to Switch 1.

so again, you have a very weird opinion, one that goes against any logic unless you also think there hasn't been a new gen console since 2013.
it's simply objectively the case that the generation on generation jump from Switch to Switch 2 is much larger than that from PS4 to PS5

 

[Buggy Loop]

I'll leave this here I guess

Again his captures are on PC and high resolution and frame rate helps with the smearing and ghosting.

fuckTAA rejoiced from SMAA/FSR1 solution for DKB for obvious reasons.

They created rendering problems that TAA and other temporal solutions could solve, for the excuse of optimization while games really don't have the optimization to show for it…

 

[Kataploom]

I didn't claim it only had FSR1 I just said the use of FSR1 is baffling with how poor of an upscaler it is. Yea they're definitely prioritizing input lag with those extended drops to 30fps huh?

Again, exaggerating to make a case lol. But yeah that boss fight dropping to 30 is really bad, I hope it's the only case because, you know, it's not constantly dropping to 30 or even below 50 as you try to make it look, it's just some dips into 50s whenever a lot of shit happens on screen.

FSR 1 makes sense since the game started on Switch 1 and it has a purpose which is sharpening, not really upscaling. The game wasn't designed with upscaling in mind, but your "Nintendo bad" mentality won't let you reason other than that. I'm drop it here.

 

[DeVeAn]

that still means that the PS5 must be barely even a PS4 Pro in your opinion then.
nearly all PS5 games can easily be ported to PS4, but there are already games out and announced on Switch 2 that would be impossible to port to Switch 1.

so again, you have a very weird opinion, one that goes against any logic unless you also think there hasn't been a new gen console since 2013.
it's simply objectively the case that the generation on generation jump from Switch to Switch 2 is much larger than that from PS4 to PS5

You're really out here writing essays trying to convince me my opinion is "objectively wrong." I wasn't even trying to start anything, but the fact that you're still spiraling over the words "Switch Pro" is wild. You're making it way too fun now — so yeah, Switch Pro it is

 

[kevboard]

You're really out here writing essays trying to convince me my opinion is "objectively wrong." I wasn't even trying to start anything, but the fact that you're still spiraling over the words "Switch Pro" is wild. You're making it way too fun now — so yeah, Switch Pro it is

I never said your opinion is objectively wrong, I said it is stupid. and then I gave you a reason why it's stupid.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Lol John being kind as always. But you could hear his disappointment in FSR1 being used which is rare for him to slip through his everything is rainbows facade. Game looks average at best for a Nintendo title, IQ is bad for 2025 and double buffer v sync is laughable. Keep damage controlling though

?

I did throw double buffer vsync under the bus right off the bat in the thread

Their shadow method is laughable

IQ is not laughable, again, had DF not mentioned the method, who can really put the finger on this especially paired with SMAA. You don't. Nor can I claim to, but I do notice absence of smearing and ghosting that has plagued modern games and thank fucking god not every devs bite on these solutions

I've seen way worse IQ with more fancy AA solutions

Go start Monster Hunter Wild with a top line RTX card and DLSS all bells and whistles. Looks like shit IQ no matter what you'll do.

This looks crisp

You'd be getting along really well with that anti UE channel now ;P

Uh oh lol

I think he goes overboard a bit and there's dubious grifting for $900k for some sort of branch of UE which I don't believe will ever amount to anything but there's some arguments especially in his early videos that are legit and also corroborated by devs and a ton of peoples testing AA for years now

Seriously though - I do agree that visual direction choices free of temporal artifacting getting default dunked on by mainstream discourse is a problem - the first reaction to this shouldn't be 'but but DLSS' - it's like we're actively advocating for developer creative censorship in modern gaming.

Now in fairness - there 'are' superior methods to 'SMAA' for image treatment that still avoids smearing the image temporal-style(and doesn't cost arm and a leg MSAA style) - some of us learned the hard way when trying to do good VR. Others just shipped smeared VR to N-th degree (I'm looking at UE and IDTech here mostly).

there's still peoples trying to make better versions of pre temporal solutions nowadays and I'm happy for that. There's a dude making a flight sim that had interesting tech, fresnel something, I'll look up for his name tonight

Just like I am very pro path tracing and so on, I also admire the work of peoples still continuing to advance global illumination with rasterization because clever peoples find amazing solutions.

Smearing and ghosting of temporal solutions are a plague though and unusable in VR imo. The DLSS 2.1 I think which was for VR was pretty much abandoned.

But part of the problem is that talent that actually understands the inner workings of these is exceedingly hard to come by - easier to just treat your AA/upscaling as black boxes you toggle on/off and not your problem from there on. I bet advent of AI coders will really take that 'abundance' of understanding to the next level too...

The it's only gonna get worse

Sprinkle AI devs in there, shake and bake, and we'll get garbage.

 

[ADiTAR]

Wow, there's a grandparent gaf...

Yeah, Cranky Kong.

 

[Kataploom]

I notice that most Japanese developers are using FSR1. The one that I remember is Monster hunter wild.

Probably because it's spatial which requires no further engine modification, or because it's easier to implement

 

[DeVeAn]

I never said your opinion is objectively wrong, I said it is stupid. and then I gave you a reason why it's stupid.

Thanks for confirming it was never about discussion, just your need to insult what you don't agree with. Appreciate the clarity. Anyway, I'm off to play Donkey Kong on the Switch Pro.