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[DocSeuss]

Haven't played Uncharted 3 but yeah I just posted in the Halo 4 OT that this is hands down the best looking game this gen. Rivals technical excellence of the best this gen but the art blows anything else out of the water.

Um, it doesn't even come close to games like Metro 2033, The Witcher 2, or Crysis Warhead.

Don't get me wrong, it is easily the best-looking console game this generation, and the only one to make me literally drop my jaw, but it is not, by any means, the best-looking game of this gen. It would, at the very least, need to be on the PC. I am pretty consistently disappointed by the 2D matte backgrounds. Bungie's installments this gen were 3D for miles and miles and miles. This seems to have a much shorter draw distance.

The frame rate has been pretty solid, too.

Strangely, last night, in the Goliath level, near the section with the tributaries, it became a slide show for about sixty seconds. Most of the time, though? Butter-smooth.

One thing I don't like in Halo4 from the video I have seen thus far is the Hud, with elements of the helmet getting in the way of the screen. Is there an option to turn it off? Other than that, I think that this game looks simply amazing, much better than UC3 and anything on Ps3.

Watching the HUD bob around the screen in reaction to your movements, giving you a feel of body awareness, is AMAZING in play. I don't think you can turn it off, though.

Yep, when Uncharted 3 does ocean simulation and physics of the whole ship and every items/npc on it.

Killzone 3/2 have quite big battlezones and AI is on pair with Halo.

Those simulations, in my understanding, are not dynamic. It's playing back an animation that was baked into the game, rendered earlier.

Killzone 2 and 3's AI is nothing compared to Halo's. That's one area where Halo outdoes everyone except Monolith/GSC.

 

[Hypron]

Now, put a direct-feed shot from U3 or KZ3.

Did I say anything about Uncharted or Killzone? I'm just not really impressed by Halo 4, that's all.

 

[Reiko]

Did I say anything about Uncharted or Killzone? I'm just not really impressed by Halo 4, that's all.

Well that goes for alot of console games this gen. It doesn't really get better for the other games mentioned either. Maybe next gen for you.

 

[dark_prinny]

This game can't get enough praise. Best console shooter of gen, and trully one of the best looking games in both consoles.

343i have crafted a trully masterpiece.

 

[EvB]

I am pretty consistently disappointed by the 2D matte backgrounds. Bungie's installments this gen were 3D for miles and miles and miles. This seems to have a much shorter draw distance.

It's probably things that like that have enabled them to make the game look much better in other ways. I only really noticed the background being 2D on one occasion.

 

[i-Lo]

Haven't played Uncharted 3 but yeah I just posted in the Halo 4 OT that this is hands down the best looking game this gen. Rivals technical excellence of the best this gen but the art blows anything else out of the water.

Oh, these Absolutes.....

I guess one can never appreciate something without comparing it to something else. I hope you guys sleep better at night knowing the game you love has "teh bezt graphix evar".

 

[XtremeXpider]

What were you talking about then? You replied to this "Yep, when Uncharted 3 does ocean simulation and physics of the whole ship and every items/npc on it."

The npc always appears always on the same place, the most distant (on a far ship) don't do nothing different, always the same. If you fail you can go for another way, but you don't have the feeling that you are doing in a different way.

Have you played Halo 3? The ark level? I have not see something like this in on another console game.

 

[DocSeuss]

It's probably things that like that have enabled them to make the game look much better in other ways. I only really noticed the background being 2D on one occasion.

Oh, absolutely. I believe they made a trade-off in making everything else close up significantly more detailed.

 

[Uno Venova]

The lighting is beautiful, can't wait to play this, just holding out for the holiday deals but it is tough.

 

[Metalmurphy]

The npc always appears always on the same place, the most distant (on a far ship) don't do nothing different, always the same, the fight is always the same. If you fail you can go for another way, but you don't have the feeling that you are doing in a different way.

Have you played Halo 3? The ark level? I have not see something like this in on another console game.

So you were talking about something completely different to what you replied to? oO

Those simulations, in my understanding, are not dynamic. It's playing back an animation that was baked into the game, rendered earlier.

That only applies to 2 sections in the game, where Drake is running away from the water rushing in, and when the boat flips over. Everything else is procedurally generated and physics interactions are handled by the Havok engine.

 

[Xun]

Because some actually believed that Uncharted or KZ wasn't possible on 360. They bought into the PR bullshit.

I've maintained from the beginning that the 360 was capable of pretty much everything we've seen on the PS3, and Halo 4 proves it.

 

[Reiko]

I've done that, i still think that GoW 3 its the most impressive game from tech standpoint on PS3, i've called U3 a U 2.3 many times and never understood when they talked about such graphical leap in this game, but at least ND added new things without sacrificing others. KZ 3 is much bigger leap than U3 to their sequels.
I think that Far Cry 3 can be the best looking game on consoles, and then in Crytek wont fail on framerate front Crysis 3.


I'm wrong on what things exactly?

And of course its marriage tech and art, but You cant talk about improvement when You are sacrificing so much, like dynamic lighting, expensive post-processing effects, particles res or completely failing on shadowing front.

You keep forgetting that sacrifices had to be made to fit everything in that 720p framebuffer. Having a game this open comes with restrictions.

Resistance 3 for example pushes out more fidelity compared to the previous games at expense of native res of 960x704. R2 was 1280x704.

Now do you really think it was possible for Insomniac to have that fidelity at 720p? I'm saying this because R3 isn't a linear game in design like Uncharted/Gears/Killzone. You have to give and take to fit that framebuffer.

It's also ultimately why these comparisons are mindnumbingly stupid.

 

[Log4Girlz]

And to think this is the successor to the Xbox. Fuck man just remembering the first Halo...looks like dookie compared to this.

 

[SapientWolf]

People keep saying "amazing for the X360." Why is GAF always so ignorant?

They do that to prevent PC-GAF from derailing the thread.

 

[Metalmurphy]

They do that to prevent PC-GAF from derailing the thread.

lol

Spoiler

It's true

 

[dark_prinny]

lol

Spoiler

It's true

So true.

 

[gaming_noob]

I've maintained from the beginning that the 360 was capable of pretty much everything we've seen on the PS3, and Halo 4 proves it.

I respectfully disagree. An example I'd like to propose is Uncharted 2/3...with graphics that are at the very top for consoles, and obviously have much more game "assets" (due to blu-ray) only costing Naughty Dog roughly $30Million each to produce. In comparison, MS is estimated to spend upwards of $100Million for Halo4... basically I'm saying it seems it's much more expensive to get great graphics out of the 360, deeming it less powerful than PS3.

 

[Waaghals]

How do you determine which game has the most assets?

I believe MS said that Halo 4 is the most expensive game they have ever made, but I believe there were no firm numbers.

Are you just assuming all these things?

 

[StuBurns]

I think it looks better than God of War 3. I certainly prefer the way it looks, but obviously that has nothing to do with technical accomplishments. I don't know what's objectively more impressive, but for me, GoW3 has been dethroned.

Saying that, I really haven't seen GoW:A, maybe Halo 4's victory will be short lived.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

I respectfully disagree. An example I'd like to propose is Uncharted 2/3...with graphics that are at the very top for consoles, and obviously have much more game "assets" (due to blu-ray) only costing Naughty Dog roughly $30Million each to produce. In comparison, MS is estimated to spend upwards of $100Million for Halo4... basically I'm saying it seems it's much more expensive to get great graphics out of the 360, deeming it less powerful than PS3.

You're comparing UC to a game that MS spends around 20mil just on advertising alone? It cost more, but that doesn't actually prove anything.

 

[gaming_noob]

How do you determine which game has the most assets?

I believe MS said that Halo 4 is the most expensive game they have ever made, but I believe there were no firm numbers.

Are you just assuming all these things?

Just assumptions based on what I've played. Texture detail almost never repeats itself in Uncharted.

 

[Reiko]

I respectfully disagree. An example I'd like to propose is Uncharted 2/3...with graphics that are at the very top for consoles, and obviously have much more game "assets" (due to blu-ray) only costing Naughty Dog roughly $30Million each to produce. In comparison, MS is estimated to spend upwards of $100Million for Halo4... basically I'm saying it seems it's much more expensive to get great graphics out of the 360, deeming it less powerful than PS3.

If the PS3 was more "powerful" than Xbox 360 and vice versa...

Why couldn't that power be shown where it really mattered?

Crysis 1 & 2 on consoles shows just how underpowered these consoles are.

All the smoke & mirrors of console exclusives can't hide the fact that you can't get the best performance with all bells & whistles when the platform is really put to the test.

Just assumptions based on what I've played. Texture detail almost never repeats itself in Uncharted.

It does. In every console game. Look closer.

 

[dark_prinny]

lol

Spoiler

It's true

So true.

EDIT: Ooops, sorry.

 

[Raide]

I respectfully disagree. An example I'd like to propose is Uncharted 2/3...with graphics that are at the very top for consoles, and obviously have much more game "assets" (due to blu-ray) only costing Naughty Dog roughly $30Million each to produce. In comparison, MS is estimated to spend upwards of $100Million for Halo4... basically I'm saying it seems it's much more expensive to get great graphics out of the 360, deeming it less powerful than PS3.

The money is not just for making things look shiny.

 

[V_Ben]

The opening level absolutely floored me, and the game keeps looking better from there. Incredible.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

So far I'm confident in saying it even outdoes Uncharted and God of War. It's also artistically beautiful.

Halo 4 looks great but it's not in the same league as either of those games.

Killzone 2/3 are still the console fps graphics champs. Both of those games look amazing many years later

 

[KKRT00]

You keep forgetting that sacrifices had to be made to fit everything in that 720p framebuffer. Having a game this open comes with restrictions.

What restrictions? Earlier games were doing something, so new should do the same + new, with maybe some sacrifices. It went same for U3 and KZ 3.

KZ 3 has like 3 times bigger battlegrounds and 2x time more units, better lens flares, anisotropic filtering, water physics, better lighting, much higher texture fidelity, better dof, more animation and better procedural animations, better collision detection for ragdoll, richer particles effects and much better framerate, but lost per-pixel object motion blur, muzzle flash shadows are limited to heavy weapons and traded QAA for MLAA

U3 has bigger areas, higher res textures, much better ssao and shadowing system, volumetric lighting and more dynamic environments, also much more animations, dont think that it lost any feature except that i ttrade from 2x MSAA to MLAA.

Halo 4 got god rays, reworked hdr, lens flares, much better characters models and their textures, higher res, better framerate and better AA, but lost dynamic lighting and shadowing, ssao, motion blur and texture filtering

I'm not talking about cutscenes, because they are not relevant.

 

[cgcg]

Interesting that DF didn't mention the complete lack of real-time environmental shadows. They all look pre-baked. That's a pretty big omission.

 

[Reiko]

What restrictions? Earlier games were doing something, so new should do the same + new, with maybe some sacrifices. It went same for U3 and KZ 3.

KZ 3 has like 3 times bigger battlegrounds and 2x time more units, with anisotropic filtering, water physics, better lighting, much higher texture fidelity, better dof, more animation richer particles effects and much better framerate, but lost per-pixel object motion blur, muzzle flash shadows and QAA for MLAA

U3 has bigger areas, higher res textures, much better ssao and shadowing system, volumetric lighting and more dynamic environments, also much more animations, dont really that it lost any feature except trade from 2x MSAA to MLAA.

Halo 4 got god rays, reworked hdr, much better characters models and their textures, higher res, better framerate and better AA, but lost dynamic lighting and shadowing, ssao, motion blur and texture filtering

I'm not talking about cutscenes, because they are not relevant.

The game itself Killzone 3 and UC3 is linear. Do you see a connection here? Gears 3 throws as much crap on screen as Killzone 3 and UC3... And it's linear. See a connection here? So it's alot easier to throw effects like that out in a 720p frame.

You seem to ignore my previous point that R3 is the only real comparable game to Halo in scope.

 

[StuBurns]

What restrictions? Earlier games were doing something, so new should do the same + new, with maybe some sacrifices. It went same for U3 and KZ 3.

KZ 3 has like 3 times bigger battlegrounds and 2x time more units, better lens flares, anisotropic filtering, water physics, better lighting, much higher texture fidelity, better dof, more animation and better procedural animations, better collision detection for ragdoll, richer particles effects and much better framerate, but lost per-pixel object motion blur, muzzle flash shadows and QAA for MLAA

U3 has bigger areas, higher res textures, much better ssao and shadowing system, volumetric lighting and more dynamic environments, also much more animations, dont really that it lost any feature except trade from 2x MSAA to MLAA.

Halo 4 got god rays, reworked hdr, lens flares, much better characters models and their textures, higher res, better framerate and better AA, but lost dynamic lighting and shadowing, ssao, motion blur and texture filtering

I'm not talking about cutscenes, because they are not relevant.

I love stuff like this. I don't know why I prefer the look of certain games to others. I think UC2 looked better than UC3. KZ2 looked better than KZ3. Halo 4 looks better than Reach. Of course various trade offs are being made at all those instances, but there doesn't seem to be any correlation for what I favor it seems.

 

[dark_prinny]

What restrictions? Earlier games were doing something, so new should do the same + new, with maybe some sacrifices. It went same for U3 and KZ 3.

KZ 3 has like 3 times bigger battlegrounds and 2x time more units, better lens flares, anisotropic filtering, water physics, better lighting, much higher texture fidelity, better dof, more animation and better procedural animations, better collision detection for ragdoll, richer particles effects and much better framerate, but lost per-pixel object motion blur, muzzle flash shadows and QAA for MLAA

U3 has bigger areas, higher res textures, much better ssao and shadowing system, volumetric lighting and more dynamic environments, also much more animations, dont really that it lost any feature except trade from 2x MSAA to MLAA.

Halo 4 got god rays, reworked hdr, lens flares, much better characters models and their textures, higher res, better framerate and better AA, but lost dynamic lighting and shadowing, ssao, motion blur and texture filtering

I'm not talking about cutscenes, because they are not relevant.

I agree with this post.

Spoiler

The parte that doesn't include acronyms XD

 

[Lunchbox]

kinda not fair to bungie when youre against

-the dream team
-blank check budget
-new tech

 

[nib95]

I must say, it feels like 95% of the screen shots I see for this game are closed environment and more linear. I'm assuming the game itself is as sandbox and open as ever?

Either way, gorgeous game. Going to give it a go soon as I'm done with AC3. Already have it purchased!

 

[Apath]

The demands don't seem that far removed from something like Killzone 2 or 3 which both (especially 3) offer some rather large environments for the battles to take place in.

It's been a while since I played Killzone 2 (and I havent played Halo 4), but KZ2 never approaches the scale of Halo titles. The only battles I recall that came close was the battle with the tank(s?) and maybe the bridge.

 

[NBtoaster]

Interesting that DF didn't mention the complete lack of real-time environmental shadows. They all look pre-baked. That's a pretty big omission.

Alot of shadows fade to a real time version when you get close. Something shared by Uncharted, Killzone, and Call of Duty.

 

[StuBurns]

I must say, it feels like 95% of the screen shots I see for this game are closed environment and more linear. I'm assuming the game itself is as sandbox and open as ever?

Either way, gorgeous game. Going to give it a go soon as I'm done with AC3. Already have it purchased!

Not really, I haven't finished it, but it feels considerably more claustrophobic than the other games.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

kinda not fair to bungie when youre against

-the dream team
-blank check budget
-new tech

Isn't the engine a modified Reach engine? And man, why did it take Bungie so long to get mo-cap in Halo?? They do mo-cap on their last Halo game and that's it. That was ridiculous. Im pretty sure Halo games cost a lot when they made them too, the difference is this time, MS couldn't risk 343 fucking it up. Id doubt it costs this much the next time.

 

[Waaghals]

I must say, it feels like 95% of the screen shots I see for this game are closed environment and more linear. I'm assuming the game itself is as sandbox and open as ever?

Either way, gorgeous game. Going to give it a go soon as I'm done with AC3. Already have it purchased!

It's still pretty open, some corridors connecting the larger battlespaces, but nothing to bad.
It's not Halo 3 open, but it is far less linear than say, COD or what have you.

 

[cgcg]

Alot of shadows fade to a real time version when you get close. Something shared by Uncharted, Killzone, and Call of Duty.

No all it shows is shadows popping in and out of the character models (i.e. all dark or no shadows at all.) There's no gradual transition. It's not even close to the shadows in the games you've mentioned.

To be clear the characters have self-shadowing. I'm talking about environmental shadows.

Stolen from KKRT00

http://i.minus.com/ibzsloJU9CuofO.gif

 

[Reiko]

No all it shows is shadows popping in and out of the character models (i.e. all dark or no shadows at all.) There's no gradual transition. It's not even close to the shadows in the games you've mentioned.

To be clear the characters have self-shadowing. I'm talking about environmental shadows.

Not enough RAM for all of that.

Unless you want Halo 4 going Sub HD like the previous titles.

 

[NBtoaster]

No all it shows is shadows popping in and out of the character models (i.e. all dark or no shadows at all.) There's no gradual transition. It's not even close to the shadows in the games you've mentioned.

It's just dynamic objects that only respond to baked lighitng. They can be real time on the enviornment.

 

[nib95]

It's still pretty open, some corridors connecting the larger battlespaces, but nothing to bad.
It's not Halo 3 open, but it is far less linear than say, COD or what have you.

That's probably partly why it looks so much better than past Halo's as well then. For me personally, I still think UC3, KZ3 and GOW3 look better, but that's just on a screen shot comparison basis. Will save final judgement till I've played it.

 

[Vol5]

If anyone thinks this looks better than God of War 3, then I need to pick it up because that game walks a higher path when it comes to graphics.

 

[omonimo]

You keep forgetting that sacrifices had to be made to fit everything in that 720p framebuffer. Having a game this open comes with restrictions.

Resistance 3 for example pushes out more fidelity compared to the previous games at expense of native res of 960x704. R2 was 1280x704.

Now do you really think it was possible for Insomniac to have that fidelity at 720p? I'm saying this because R3 isn't a linear game in design like Uncharted/Gears/Killzone. You have to give and take to fit that framebuffer.

It's also ultimately why these comparisons are mindnumbingly stupid.

Sorry, wat? Resistance 3 level are a lot more restricted than killzone 3 area... killzone 3 area has some level big how the previous whole KZ2 game, it has scripted sequence but the levels on kz3 are pretty huge.

 

[KageMaru]

All that needs to be asked is does it look better than Reach? Different devs, different choices.

@ KKRT00, sorry but I much rather not derail this thread, this is about halo 4, not a comparison pissing contest. PM me if you want to have this discussion.

Interesting that DF didn't mention the complete lack of real-time environmental shadows. They all look pre-baked. That's a pretty big omission.

The vast majority of games use baked shadows.

 

[KKRT00]

The game itself Killzone 3 and UC3 is linear. Do you see a connection here? Gears 3 throws as much crap on screen as Killzone 3 and UC3... And it's linear. See a connection here? So it's alot easier to throw effects like that out in a 720p frame.

You seem to ignore my previous point that R3 is the only real comparable game to Halo in scope.

Actually Gears 3 doesnt do many things that U3 or KZ 3 does. Though its motion blur is quite nice

And what do You call linear? KZ 3 has quite big environments that You can navigate with jet pack for example, yeah, its more narrow, but Halo has many narrow spaces too and multiplayer is limited space all along and yet nothing new in terms of effects comes out of it.

I dont really buy empty space as performance limit and actually most of the stuff You are probably think about in terms of scale in Halo is calculated by CPU and it does not differ that much from what Halo 3 was doing.
BTW Killzone increased fidelity and improved tech and then made environments and battles bigger, without almost any sacrifices [even though i think that per pixel object motion blur adds a lot], yet Halo 4 have similar battles in scope to Reach and cut so many features back.

And about Resistance do not know why they've decided to go route of their Ratchet and Clank res tech, which is not simple 960x704 upscaled to 720p, but they are using MSAA to upscale it somehow, dont really remember how though, ive read about it quite long time ago. Still, I dont like the effect too

 

[Reiko]

Sorry, wat? Resistance 3 level are a lot more restricted than killzone 3 area... killzone 3 area has some level big how the previous whole KZ2, it has scripted sequence but the levels on kz3 are pretty huge.

You sure about that?

The design of KZ3 SP is like a corridor (COD).

 

[i-Lo]

So thread derailed?

Anyway, expect 343 to make most of thee to wet thy pants when they show off Halo 5. Can anyone imagine what kinds of new technology would be implemented given that XB3 will be DX11.X compliant?

 

[omonimo]

Um, it doesn't even come close to games like Metro 2033, The Witcher 2, or Crysis Warhead.

Don't get me wrong, it is easily the best-looking console game this generation, and the only one to make me literally drop my jaw, but it is not, by any means, the best-looking game of this gen. It would, at the very least, need to be on the PC. I am pretty consistently disappointed by the 2D matte backgrounds. Bungie's installments this gen were 3D for miles and miles and miles. This seems to have a much shorter draw distance.



Strangely, last night, in the Goliath level, near the section with the tributaries, it became a slide show for about sixty seconds. Most of the time, though? Butter-smooth.



Watching the HUD bob around the screen in reaction to your movements, giving you a feel of body awareness, is AMAZING in play. I don't think you can turn it off, though.



Those simulations, in my understanding, are not dynamic. It's playing back an animation that was baked into the game, rendered earlier.

Killzone 2 and 3's AI is nothing compared to Halo's. That's one area where Halo outdoes everyone except Monolith/GSC.

Based on... your opinion, I guess.

 

[omonimo]

You sure about that?

The design of KZ3 SP is like a corridor (COD).

Did you have played kz3 sp? Area are huge, Resistance 3 not that much.