Perhaps you should rewatch it, there is no concurrent use of game and UI. other than small notifications. the game is suspended.
Digital Foundry: Microsoft to unlock more GPU power for Xbox One developers
- Thread starter DaSorcerer7
- Start date
Perhaps you should rewatch it, there is no concurrent use of game and UI. other than small notifications. the game is suspended.
How much RAM would this take?
In a year or two yeh, but just before launch would be outright fucking ridiculous!
Yeh I hear you vizzeh.
Rendering videos is free with the hardware h264 encoder/decoders both the consoles are sporting...
Not sure where you infer anything about synchronization. You'd only have to sync if you needed the result from GPGPU sometime during the frame on any GPU with asynchronous compute.
I also don't see how this implies that the ROPs are directly connected to the ESRAM. I don't really see the benefit, unless the implication is that the >109GB/s figures are only achievable by the ROPs.
Sword Of Doom
Member
I agree. Was watching some direct feed last night and the lighting is gorgeous. The only problem I have with that game is the 30fps
killatopak
Member
First time I heard about enabling a disabled SPE too. Wouldn't something bad happen if the SPE they used is defective? Like screen tearing and just bad graphics in general?
Despite the 10% reservations, Ryse and Forza still looks pretty amazing to me. Gotta give Turn 10 and Crytek props for churning those out on a 1.17TF machine. Whether it's better or not than PS4 games is debatable but it doesn't change the fact that they are amazing nonetheless.
You still owe me an explanation for the 30% Power difference you stated earlier in the thread... I even took the time and layed out the math for you...
Who knows? Both consoles can suspend game state but the XB1 snap and Kinect features are what require GPU reserve.
Edit: I wouldn't be surprised if there is some sort of GPU reserve on the PS4, but not nearly 10% unless they are going to try implementing snap features to compete with MS.
ChainsawFilms
Member
We all knew there was 10% reserved before this article. Anyone expecting to get that 10% back is kidding themselves, it's reserved for a reason, you take it all back at a later date, you stand to lose functionality. They may find out that in real world scenarios they never go beyond 5% GPU useage for snap / whatever, but you'll never see it all "in game".
In typical MS fashion, it's being sold to you as a positive thing. A negative is somehow now a positive. And it's their usual stick and carrot approach, the hope that in the future, the console will be better. Maybe. Buy now, play later.
The irony here is DF highlighting it all. They never took this into account with their Equivalent PC tests. I used to enjoy DF, but they're now just a MS mouthpiece. Genuinely surprised the Eurogamer chiefs haven't done something about this, they can read the internet, even their own forums have people calling DF out on this.
MS need to shut up and let their games do the talking. If they're that convinced of their platform, show us. Don't treat us like idiots. Show us why we should want to give them our money.
Their desperation reeks.
In typical MS fashion, it's being sold to you as a positive thing. A negative is somehow now a positive. And it's their usual stick and carrot approach, the hope that in the future, the console will be better. Maybe. Buy now, play later.
The irony here is DF highlighting it all. They never took this into account with their Equivalent PC tests. I used to enjoy DF, but they're now just a MS mouthpiece. Genuinely surprised the Eurogamer chiefs haven't done something about this, they can read the internet, even their own forums have people calling DF out on this.
MS need to shut up and let their games do the talking. If they're that convinced of their platform, show us. Don't treat us like idiots. Show us why we should want to give them our money.
Their desperation reeks.
CFW is not supported by Sony at all, if it breaks it breaks tough luck, if you enable a broken SPE your console breaks. like i said AFAIK sony only decreased OS ram reservations on PS3.
EDIT: probably shouldn't have mentioned it in this thread, was a bit of a sidetrail based on someones comments.
That looks pretty cool. Isn't that basically the dashboard? What's missing?
Unless the video is embellishing the switching speed, which seems to be instant, both the OS and the game are resident in memory. If they are, you NEED some sort of reservation.
Now they've got the Edge.
Yes, memory reservation, not GPU reservation which is what this thread is about.
There are CPU and Memory reservations, there may not be a GPU reservation.
Why does the OS need a GPU reservation to be resident in memory?. You can get that kind of speed without reserving a large amount of GPU time.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
I don't know, if we can claim definitively that there is no reserve for the PS4. I think a 10% reserve is out of the question, but I honestly would not be too surprised by a 1-5% allocation. Just spit balling here.
Yes, you would need RAM reservation, which is what they are using. I don't see why you would need GPU reservation for something that isn't currently being drawn onscreen.
I suspect they are reserving something for concurrent OS overlay, but that could use very minimal GPU performance. Maybe 1%.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Nothings going on, the level of insufferable, butt hurt, fan boy paranoia on this forum however has increased at an exponential rate since these consoles were announced....
could be for Graphics overlays for the HDMI in also possibly cable over-game footage. That would take up RAM + GPU reserves
Why would I want the game to carry on playing in the background though
....you're an idiot.
Having 10% less power available for games atm is good news for xbox one? (And also kudos for refering to it as "the one" - MS is proud of you ;-) )
You need some GPU resources to render a decent quality dashboard. If both the OS and game are running at the same time, you don't want a game using up 100% of the GPU and the user trying to switch to the OS at the same time (worst case scenario).
Portugeezer
Member
The game stops when he goes into the OS. OS would only require some of the systems RAM to switch quickly between game and OS, but I'm not an expert or anything.
There is no explanation .. The actual numbers was not the point of that statement. I was saying even if it was a 30% or 20% or 10% gap the ps4 is still a head.. There is no need for this instant jumping down peoples throats.
The op had 10% so I went with 30.
But how much would that seriously take up? 1%?.
We're unsure, there is a chance that the Camera would be an optional feature in games, so the reservation would be 0 whilst playing some games but others could choose to use the camera and would have a self imposed 10% if it wanted to use some camera style GPGPU. But it would of course only be applicable to camera games in this case I imagine.
well, I'm sure as hell that MS didn't increase their 1.31TF GPU performance, nor they could in the future.
The article confirmed Kotaku rumor about gpu reservation. nothing less.
so the precious Xbone was actually at a bigger disadvantage compared to PS4. hell it was even a 0.92TF box at some point.
They are not the same time, they are within a split second of each other, but they are still different times. when the game is in suspend mode off screen you can use the entire GPU to render the Dashboard, it's the same system as the Vita.
Chobel
Member
You only need CPU. If I'm wrong show me why do they need GPU for that. Yes, both the OS and the game are resident in memory, but that have nothing to do with GPU.
That's what you said:
and you "going with 30" because the op mentioned 10% just proofs my point about you lacking reading comprehension, math as well as logic skills...
And to be perfectly clear - this is not about "jumping peoples throats" - it's about people spinning a negative into a positive because they either have an agenda or they simply do not understand what is said in the article...
LukasTaves
Member
A Gbuffer is not (usually at least) a single buffer, but rather a combination of multiple buffers/render targets that store the information you want about the geometry of the scene.
You can split a single buffer because on xbone (and all GDC gpus?) all the external memory access of the gpu is virtualized, even within portions of a buffer/texture.
Chobel
Member
So you didn't read the article at all?
mangochutney
Member
Wasn't there some guy on here recently claiming to be an intern at MS who worked on Kinect stating that there were special chips in the console and Kinect itself to avoid it taking up resource available for games?
This kind of suggests that guy was telling porkies or Kinect is damn hungry.
This kind of suggests that guy was telling porkies or Kinect is damn hungry.
if some DO think that Microsoft will be pressuring some 3rd party devs to have parity between their games and PS4 versions....how would the conversation go?
What would Microsoft's 3rd Party relations person say to the developer...how would he bring it up? In the gaming business, are things just said straight forward? or are there other stuff thrown out there that gets the point across.
there is no Cell this time, and from what I read the PS4 will be easier to developer for..on top of being more powerful. I'm just curious does the 3rd Party relations person relay messages to the dev, or does that person get in touch with the Publisher to relay that "message" to the developers.
Don't get me wrong....I also understand some Publisher of these games themselves would believe it certain scenarios, it would be in their best interest to scale back/or not take advantage of the PS4 version if need be.
What would Microsoft's 3rd Party relations person say to the developer...how would he bring it up? In the gaming business, are things just said straight forward? or are there other stuff thrown out there that gets the point across.
there is no Cell this time, and from what I read the PS4 will be easier to developer for..on top of being more powerful. I'm just curious does the 3rd Party relations person relay messages to the dev, or does that person get in touch with the Publisher to relay that "message" to the developers.
Don't get me wrong....I also understand some Publisher of these games themselves would believe it certain scenarios, it would be in their best interest to scale back/or not take advantage of the PS4 version if need be.
What? the esram has to be specifically managed...
There is probably some GPU reservation as well. Games are rather complicated beasts, and they can't just be "suspended to RAM". First of all, they are already in RAM, and the game is already going to be using as much of its allotment as it can. Second, a game needs to know is being kicked off. That's no longer a trivial task in the age of asynchronous compute.
However, if there was some sort of GPU reserve that the OS was guaranteed, then it would be much easier for the OS to show up snappily while the game moved into its own suspend mode. Instead of the OS doing some sort of heavy game suspend in this scenario it just signals the game that it's lost focus, but it continues to run in the background. It's easier that way, and the reserve likely doesn't need to be as large as it is on the XB1.
GameAddict411
Member
if we look at the vita, games are suspended when you press the PS button and not running on the background. i don't see why the PS4 is going to be any different.
Chobel
Member
I think you don't get it. You suspend the game. Dashboard and the game don't run simultaneously. It's fast switch, fast enough that it looks instant.
Someone correct me if im wrong, bit of surmising but there is a secondary custom chip for background audio and tasks, possibly an ARM processor to alleviate all non-game essential processing,
Wait, when I read that headline I thought "oh that's good news" and then I read the actual news and thought "well that's shit news". It means that there is currently a 10% power reduction on the GPU, so it's even LESS powerful than we thought before?
Jawbreaker
Member
Wow, going by the thread title I expected this to be a positive story, but in fact, it's actually pretty negative considering I wasn't aware that they were using 10% for those functions, thus making it less powerful than the figures being thrown around to compare with the PS4.
Why hasn't the thread title been changed? I see a lot of people are just ignoring the article, thinking it's positive based off of the title alone.
Why hasn't the thread title been changed? I see a lot of people are just ignoring the article, thinking it's positive based off of the title alone.
Precious? Come on dude, no need.