Digital Foundry Performance Analysis: The Order: 1886

Yeah that put me off as well. Digital Foundry seems to be doing this more and more often.

Yeah, I've noticed it as well. You're valued for your technical knowledge, and frankly nothing else, so why would they throw their irrelevant opinions into these performance analyses? We've got plenty of reviews to help us make up our minds of the attributes of the game beyond the visual.

New?!
This is face-off of Castlevania:LoS from 10/2010!

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-castlevania-lords-of-shadow-face-off?page=2

They always gave their feedback about gameplay.

I think it's just the *amount* of time in the reviews spent on this now, but that might just be influenced by a few higher-profile examples recently.
 
Yeah, I've noticed it as well. You're valued for your technical knowledge, and frankly nothing else, so why would they throw their irrelevant opinions into these performance analyses? We've got plenty of reviews to help us make up our minds of the attributes of the game beyond the visual.



I think it's just the *amount* of time in the reviews spent on this now, but that might just be influenced by a few higher-profile examples recently.

I've only seen people complaining about them giving gameplay feedback in this particular thread. I think people are just getting too touchy about the fact that the majority of journalists were not keen on the game.
 
Kinda disappointed by the physics. Somehow I expected to be able to destory and deform a lot of stuff but the gameworld is extremely static and most of the time the game doesn't allow you to shoot your weapon anyway.

I hope with their next game RAD can set their priorties differently and use the tech they have now for game with worthwhile gameplay.
They still had to work with finite resources, a budget and a deadline. I do believe they spoke up about destructible environments, soft body physics and the like and I'm sure they would want to improve on those even more, as it is, the game was delayed and since the game is not the length of games like RE4 or TLOU I get the feeling they were strapped for time on certain aspects.

What I appreciate above all else is that this game is a solid 30fps with the best visuals on any platform, too many times we have great looking games with sub-par framerates. I believe this game is the most complete package on the visual front.

You cant judge that. Actually, i'm pretty sure that motion blur and DoF is higher quality in Ryse, going by older footage of The Order and its 1/4 res DoF.


Can You post screens with PoM?
And IQ is destroyed. I can hardly see textures on the ground.

Why do you keep spreading FUD? you say things and can never prove it. You're actually using metrics 1/4, 1/2 etc..Dof/MB samples. Is someone suppose to believe that because you said it? Show where that ryse-xbone has better dof and mb than the order or else it's just FUD.

Let me get you in on something, IQ is not only about how sharp a game looks. It depends on the tone and art direction of a game too. Sometimes tone denotes heavy use of pp effects, perhaps they're going for post apocalyptic or Victorian era, (1886 London) like in the the order. You can't say a game has bad IQ because it's foggy, has good mb or dof for e.g. Have you seen Penny Dreadful, there are scenes very reminiscent.

It's like this, If I'm playing Gran Turismo or Sonic Adventure/Racing, I expect the sharpest image, the most colors, great textures and an AA solution that gives me no shimmering on architecture, cars backgrounds etc....Native resolution would also go along way in fulfilling that too. What we have of the order is a native game, despite it's heavy PP effects, it's tonally right for the atmosphere it creates. What impresses me more about it's IQ is that clean sharp detail can be resolved far into the distance.

the-order_-1886_20150218200929.jpg

Look at how detailed the building in the background is. It's still sharp with all the pp and jaggy free.

ibg0Iyl9dajDgq.jpg

There's a lot of detail you can pick up in the foreground here.

If this game was a non-native game, the IQ would be degraded a couple of notches, you would see the evidence in the foreground and background detail. As it stands as far as console games go, this is the most expensive game in terms of it's AA solution thus far and it shows.


All are blurry in comparison to native games. If IQ is blurry than IQ is destroyed, its really as simple as that. It doesnt mean it looks bad, it looks just worse. Its still very playable mind You, but its exactly the same case as 900p to 1080p comparisons. Clear image > blurry image, 1080p > 900p.
Now you've gone the deep end. Imagine 900p with heavy samples of CA and FXAA, are you going to compare that to the order's IQ?

ibkUVW61a3ZtD0.jpg


is0SudcVJoI5J.jpg


iDrX42tcRm9wU.jpg


You're telling me IQ is destroyed here, yet you're talking up higher samples of dof and mb in ryse xbone "which is not true" and if it was true, it would blur the screen even more. Yet you defend games like Crysis2/3 that has tonnes of pp effects. You want to talk about IQ being destroyed in the cleanest looking game so far, I mean come on man.
 
^^@Lastword: You may want to take a look at other games before you start saying this game... and especially the background detail in this game... is "sharp."

It is quite obvious that this game took a desharpened look with its use of filmgrain, TAA, CA and even in game DOF which is constantly adjusting its focal range.
 
Did anybody watch any CG movies in the last decade or so?

Have we really lost the definition of just what "computer generated" graphics really look like?

big-hero-six-e1415145924663.jpg
Don't forget that we haven't really seen any dev go for that type of game yet (art direction that is). Well maybe Knack and Skylanders, though they don't quite compare, but they do have very good IQ as it is.

In any case I think if any developer can come close to modern CG with that type of artstyle Naughty Dog or RAD can do it, taking into account that they use a forward renderer and use the AA solution RAD has here.

I would put Insomniac on the list too but the IQ on their last set of games have been so bad generally. I'm really dissapointed in them, here's hoping they impress with good IQ in the next ratchet. They definitely have a console where there should be no jaggies in a ratchet game and no blurry imagery like in "A crack in time and R3".

^^@Lastword: You may want to take a look at other games before you start saying this game... and especially the background detail in this game... is "sharp."

It is quite obvious that this game took a desharpened look with its use of filmgrain, TAA, CA and even in game DOF which is constantly adjusting its focal range.

With all the PP effects in this game coupled with the dark foggy atmosphere, I can make the details just fine. Obviously it looks even better in motion. I think the screens speak well enough though.

Funny, someone mentioned that this would be the next method of attack.
 
With all the PP effects in this game coupled with the dark foggy atmosphere, I can make the details just fine. Obviously it looks even better in motion. I think the screens speak well enough though.
A lot of that fog you are seeing is actually just film grain... true story! Film grain makes games look foggy!

This... is sharp:
16528251886_abb417cc62_k.jpg


This is not-sharp:
the-order_-1886_20150218200929.jpg
 
Funny, someone mentioned that this would be the next method of attack.

The fact you are viewing these as "attacks" is a pretty annoying issue to run into. It is an analysis of a set of images and the game overall; not some vicisous attack to ones ego / company / platform or anything else

I think the IQ is poor and muzzled over with plenty of post processing which does not do much other than lead to a more fuzzy image - arguably fitting to the cinematic look they might be after or intended. Your idea of sharpness is also completely bizarre to me. That is my opinion.

A lot of that fog you are seeing is actually just film grain... true story! Film grain makes games look foggy!

This... is sharp:
<snip>
This is not-sharp:
<snip>

Kind of what I am getting at
 
The PBR looks phenomenal, especially in the lab sequence shown in the Gamersyde locations video. I can't wait until games are putting that much effort into materials across the board.
 
Don't forget that we haven't really seen any dev go for that type of game yet (art direction that is). Well maybe Knack and Skylanders, though they don't quite compare, but they do have very good IQ as it is.

In any case I think if any developer can come close to modern CG with that type of artstyle Naughty Dog or RAD can do it, taking into account that they use a forward renderer and use the AA solution RAD has here.

I would put Insomniac on the list too but the IQ on their last set of games have been so bad generally. I'm really dissapointed in them, here's hoping they impress with good IQ in the next ratchet. They definitely have a console where there should be no jaggies in a ratchet game and no blurry imagery like in "A crack in time and R3".



With all the PP effects in this game coupled with the dark foggy atmosphere, I can make the details just fine. Obviously it looks even better in motion. I think the screens speak well enough though.
Funny, someone mentioned that this would be the next method of attack.
That would be me. :) Gaf is very predictable these days. Anyway, it already started on the last page, so let's not keep it going. It clearly has AF, just not good enough for distant textures to look clear. And BTW, I don't think any game is close to matching the latest CGI movies. The Order looks almost as good as CGI from 10 years ago, though.

Just read. Those shots show no af.
Good grief. It's not completely absent, just insufficient, somewhere slightly below 4× AF
 
I've made a bunch of screenshots, not necessarily for this thread - but maybe some of them are helpful to determine the more intriguing mumbo-jumbo.

These are very, very impressive.

Obviously Unity is an open world game and the detail is very impressive for its scale, but on a scene by scene basis, it is lacking in that regard. The shading and textures look fantastic but you can see it is still poly starved relative to stuff like the Order.
 
Yeah Order 1886 is probably the best looking game I've seen on a console, stunning would be a understatement. That and ad Digital foundry said, no drops. Haven't noticed any so far either, so I think it's very refined in its presentation
Though I noticed at the beginning of the game you didn't have a reflection in the mirror (unless that's hinting at you being a vampire?)

I noticed digital foundry having a "dig" at the game in terms of gameplay too at the end. Thought it was unnecessary of them to say it. From what I read, I would have liked the game to be as long as say, TLOU and that (other than being able to corner when in cover), is the only flaw for me really.
 
Yeah Order 1886 is probably the best looking game I've seen on a console, stunning would be a understatement. That and ad Digital foundry said, no drops. Haven't noticed any so far either, so I think it's very refined in its presentation
Though I noticed at the beginning of the game you didn't have a reflection in the mirror (unless that's hinting at you being a vampire?)

I noticed digital foundry having a "dig" at the game in terms of gameplay too at the end. Thought it was unnecessary of them to say it. From what I read, I would have liked the game to be as long as say, TLOU and that (other than being able to corner when in cover), is the only flaw for me really.
You can move around corners in cover, though. You just hold circle.
 
Good looks can take you far and I am probably gonna get this just for the tech/graphics alone. There hasn't been anything since InFamous to provide that in-your-face new gen eye-candy.
 
Good looks can take you far and I am on probably gonna get this just for the tech/graphics alone. There hasn't been anything since InFamous to provide that in-your-face new gen eye-candy.
How about Driveclub? That game could almost be passed off as real life in some screens and I think it deserves more love.
 
Its not even close to sharp.

The fact you are viewing these as "attacks" is a pretty annoying issue to run into. It is an analysis of a set of images and the game overall; not some vicisous attack to ones ego / company / platform or anything else

I think the IQ is poor and muzzled over with plenty of post processing which does not do much other than lead to a more fuzzy image - arguably fitting to the cinematic look they might be after or intended. Your idea of sharpness is also completely bizarre to me. That is my opinion.
You should really read the thread, I never said it was an attack on me. By the way, the spin on one word in my entire post is really juvenile. I've already made it clear that a gran turismo or any sega "color me rainbow game" (sonic, transformed racing, daytona next) should be the sharpest games with the most color, I prefaced everything.

When I said sharp, I was referring to heavy pp games with such tone and setting like the order and of course the fact that it's a native game with good aa means that detail would be resolved better further into the distance than a 900p uspcaled game with weaker aa and detail as in ryse. Isn't the order being compared to ryse this whole time in this thread?

For. eg. Look at this shot of ryse-xbone

ibzvcxxtjkqvnum8uuh.png


First off, this is not even far off in the distance. Look at how poor the detail is on the ground, look in the immediate background and see how blurry some of the textures are, especially behind that soldier running in.

A lot of that fog you are seeing is actually just film grain... true story! Film grain makes games look foggy!

This... is sharp:
16528251886_abb417cc62_k.jpg


This is not-sharp:
the-order_-1886_20150218200929.jpg
What does that have to do with what I said, are you trying to prove that you know what film grain is?
 
You should really read the thread, I never said it was an attack on me. By the way, the spin on one word in my entire post is really juvenile. I've already made it clear that a gran turismo or any sega color me rainbow game should be the sharpest games with the most color, I prefaced everything.

when I said sharp, I was referring to heavy pp games with such tone and setting like the order and of course the fact that it's a native game with good aa means that detail would be resolved better further into the distance than a 900p uspcaled game with weaker aa and detail as in ryse.

For. eg. Look at this shot of ryse-xbone

ibzvcxxtjkqvnum8uuh.png


First off, this is not even far off in the distance. Look at how poor the detail is on the ground, look in the immediate background and see how blurry some of the textures are, especially behind that soldier running in.

What does that have to do with what I said, are you trying to prove that you know what film grain is?
You gotta admit, dude, all the post processing does make The Order 1886 look a tad blurry, even if it is completely free of jaggies. It certainly doesn't look very sharp. Don't get me wrong, I like all the PP because it fits the atmosphere very well but a very sharp looking game, it is not. It does undoubtedly look better than upscaled 900p games though. BTW, this is coming from a guy who thinks The Order is the best looking game in the market right now regardless of platform.
 
Yeah, I don't think you know what you're talking about.


Probably. So many years seeing only 16xAF. After looking at nib95 ghost recon AW gif, it's actually possible I was wrong and there is some aniso. BTW, even 16xAF looks bad in that gif.
 
Probably. So many years seeing only 16xAF. After looking at nib95 ghost recon AW gif, it's actually possible I was wrong and there is some aniso. BTW, even 16xAF looks bad in that gif.
I really hope this isn't sarcasm. It's hard to tell on the Internet but if you are really acknowledging your mistake, that's great.
 
I had the premium edition preordered but canceled, because at 160$ (tax included) for such a poorly reviewed game, it just wasn't worth it. I don't even have a ps4 yet. I have spent far too much already on amiibos and far better valued/priced Japanese collector's editions as of late. If I could get it discounted later on I might.
 
How about Driveclub? That game could almost be passed off as real life in some screens and I think it deserves more love.

Yeah I've heard that looks pretty but driving games really aren't my thing so will probably wait for PS+ version to check that out.
 
Yeah, The Order has 4× AF at most, which is decent at best, but some screens do show a major issue of insufficient AF, especially the one in the train.

Yeah I've heard that looks pretty but driving games really aren't my thing so will probably wait for PS+ version to check that out.
Well, at least head over to the Driveclub Photomode thread and prepare to be mind blown :)
 
Unless youre Dennis gaming at stupid resolutions regularly I regard complaints about the iq as lunatic

These are not complaints, but observations that the game presents a soft image. This is undeniable and not really open for debate.
Image Quality, as a term used on this forum, generally means the overall picture quality. This encompasses presence of aliasing (geometry, shader, shadow, effects), object detail and image resolution. Yes, this game is beautiful and deserves credit for it (personally, I like its low-fi look), but there are compromises made to achieve this beauty and some are simply pointing them out. Pretty standard fair for a technical thread where you can expect people who like tech, to discuss tech. Calling people lunatics doesn't help lend your opinion much weight.
 
16528251886_abb417cc62_k.jpg


This is not-sharp:
the-order_-1886_20150218200929.jpg
I've already said what I meant by sharp, it has to be taken in context. Clearly AC-U does not have the pp effects that the order has, what I was comparing was background imagery and how much detail is maintained in heavy pp games.

With that said, the house in the foreground (grey building) in your ACU shot, is it sharper or more detailed than the background grey building in the order? The ACU building looks less detailed and blurry to me at a shorter distance, yet I see more detail in the grey building in the order's pic, yet the order's building is much further away.

That would be me. :) Gaf is very predictable these days. Anyway, it already started on the last page, so let's not keep it going. It clearly has AF, just not good enough for distant textures to look clear. And BTW, I don't think any game is close to matching the latest CGI movies. The Order looks almost as good as CGI from 10 years ago, though.
Yes, I remembered reading that. As for modern CG movies, I don't think we're there yet, but most CG movies have this cartoony style, So we can't directly compare anyway. I think if there's a new Jak or Ratchet we could get a better look into how close we can get.

How about Driveclub? That game could almost be passed off as real life in some screens and I think it deserves more love.
I think DC has gotten lots of love, obviously it deserves more, but after the order, imagine DC with that level of IQ and better texture filtering. It would look like that famous b-roll footage we were all drooling over prior to release.

You gotta admit, dude, all the post processing does make The Order 1886 look a tad blurry, even if it is completely free of jaggies. It certainly doesn't look very sharp. Don't get me wrong, I like all the PP because it fits the atmosphere very well but a very sharp looking game, it is not. It does undoubtedly look better than upscaled 900p games though. BTW, this is coming from a guy who thinks The Order is the best looking game in the market right now regardless of platform.
Well, read my other posts for context, some persons just got hooked up on the word "sharp". I was comparing pp heavy games, primarily ryse and others similar. I mean KKRT suggested that a 900p upscaled game was not far removed from the order in terms of IQ. I was simply showing that much more detail further into the distance could be resolved quite easily in the order. Primarily because it's a native game with a higher level of detail than ryse and better IQ.

I never meant that the order looks sharper than Daytona USA at 4k, it's definitely not sunny times in the order.
 
A lot of that fog you are seeing is actually just film grain... true story! Film grain makes games look foggy!

This... is sharp:
16528251886_abb417cc62_k.jpg


This is not-sharp:
the-order_-1886_20150218200929.jpg
Woo, I got screen shot quoted! The level of DOF, film grain and just general image blur is at extreme levels in this game, and not in a good way. These effects are just being used at too high of an intensity, something that was clearly done to hide graphic inconsistenties such as LOD and environment material quality.
 
You should really read the thread, I never said it was an attack on me. By the way, the spin on one word in my entire post is really juvenile.
Nobody is 'spinning' anything. You're using the word 'sharp' when the widely known use of the word suggests the game is anything but. There's nothing juvenile about pointing it out. Its not even semantics, its about using proper terms for effective communication, which tends to be important in a graphics tech discussion.
 
The LoD in that ACU shot...it is one of the games hefty visual weaknesses. It is not worse than previous games, perhaps more obvious because of the big jump in visuals.
 
Glad Digital Foundry enjoyed the technical part. Personally speaking, I didn't think this generation would awe me in terms of visuals. This game fucking did it. I still can't believe how incredibly gorgeous it is. I had seen videos before, but it never clicked.

Totally worth the purchase just to show case it to casual friends.
 
Woo, I got screen shot quoted! The level of DOF, film grain and just general image blur is at extreme levels in this game, and not in a good way. These effects are just being used at too high of an intensity, something that was clearly done to hide graphic inconsistenties such as LOD and environment material quality.

I really don't think that is the reason at all. In terms of geometric or environmental material inconsistencies, The Order is probably the least offending of any game I've recently played, maybe even ever played lol. I honestly think they likely just wanted that gritty, more heavily filmic and softer look, instead of that pristine cleanliness you get in most other games. I mean, there's blur, depth of field, scrtatches, camera dirt and all sorts of things ever present.

You can see in screenshots posted all over the place, LOD, asset and material quality is far from an issue with the game. It's not like the environments are so vast in size that LOD is as much of a consideration or concern either.

Order 1886 screens
 
I've already said what I meant by sharp, it has to be taken in context. Clearly AC-U does not have the pp effects that the order has, what I was comparing was background imagery and how much detail is maintained in heavy pp games.

With that said, the house in the foreground (grey building) in your ACU shot, is it sharper or more detailed than the background grey building in the order? The ACU building looks blurry to me and I see more detail in the building in the order pic, yet the order's building is much further away.

yes, I remembered reading that. As for modern CG movies, I don't think we're there yet, but most CG movies have these cartoony style, So we can't directly compare anyway. I think if there's a new Jak or Ratchet we could get a better look into how close we can get.

I think DC has gotten lots of love, obviously it deserves more, but after the order, imagine DC with that level of IQ and better texture filtering. It would look like that famous b-roll footage we were all drooling over prior to release.

Well, read my other posts for context, some persons just got hooked up on the word "sharp". I was comparing pp heavy games, primarily ryse and others similar. I mean KKRT suggested that a 900p upscaled game was not far removed from the order in terms of IQ. I was simply showing that much more detail further into the distance could be resolved quite easily in the order. Primarily because it's a native game with a higher level of detail than ryse and better IQ.

I never meant that the order looks sharper than Daytona USA at 4k, it's definitely not sunny times in the order.
IQ, animation and art style aside (the first two can't be compared directly because CGI movies are rendered offline), overall assets in video games still have quite a long way to go to match CGI movies. Textures and shading(especially with PBR) may be getting very close, but other stuff like hair/fur simulation, individually rendered leaves, and overall consistency still have a long way to go. Lighting and ambient occlusion (which is actually a cheap trick which will be useless when real time ray tracing is implemented) could also use improvements. But The Order does look mind blowingly awesome and about on par with CGI from years ago.

Anyway, there is no doubt a game running at native resolution will resolve details easier but the game is still a tad blurry.
 
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