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[Lord Error]

Ugh, I'll never understand why they didn't use vector ribbons for power lines. They should have eliminated those nasty electrical towers as well. They just look nasty. It takes quite a bit of SSAA on the PC to clean them up to a respectable level and, even then, they're still not perfect.

I can't understand developers sometimes. That scene where you drive the car, and you get all those towers into the view... was just ugh. If they simply deleted most of those oil towers from the distance the scene would end up looking so much better.

Similarly, Resistance 2 had a level near the end of the game where the design decision about the visuals must have went like "Guys, let's see if we can design this level to add even MOAR aliasing to it". Just unbelievable.

That said, I'm very impressed by BF4 campaign visuals when all is said and done. Most of the time visuals look really good, NPCs animate incredibly well, and the performance is almost unflinching 60FPS.

 

[icecold1983]

It doesn't matter if the engine can do it, if the console would struggle to render something at acceptable rate. To me, it's clear that Ryse on XB1 would never be able to keep steady 30FPS in those cutscenes as it can hardly keep solid 30FPS in less demanding scenes during game. The Order does render everything in realtime, and with effortless performance, often times not even going into some kind of special 'cutscene render mode' like Ryse does when it displays its fully realtime cutscenes.


It looks significantly better than 900p+FXAA, and also visibly better than Ryse with 900p+SMAA. The kind of blur Ryse screens exhibit looks like gaussian blur due to upscale. Actually worse than that I guess, because gaussian would at least keep the detail that's there in place, just blur it. In this case, the thin detail would not even be there in the first place with 900p image, so there's less detail and blur on top. The kind of blur Seen in Order screens looks like what you'd get with adding effects and post processing on top of higher res image, and it doesn't obscure the thin geometric detail like on that crane. I also don't see the ruined detail elsewhere. I mean, all the detail that I expect to be there is visible under the layer of postprocessing, and in motion it would reveal itself even better due to sub pixel resolve.

Here's what a similar kind of crane looks like in BF4 on PS4 (900p + FXAA). The kind of detail resolve seen in The Order is not only "slightly better" to me. In motion the difference would only be more profound. Trust me, I'm playing BF4 right now, and while I'm impressed with the visuals quality and practically unflinching 60FPS performance during campaign so far, the motion aliasing can look *ugly* at times, like when you move the camera and the branches, twigs and tree tops in front become humorously half the thickness while the camera moves, and back to normal thickness when the camera stops (probably due to how FXAA handles, or rather doesn't handle sub pixel detail at all). Such thing would never happen if there was MSAA. *edit* fixed screenshot link.

its actually due to the god awful motion blur in frostbite 3. if you want more lulz go look at what happens to the buildings on dawn breaker.

 

[CyberPunked]

Well, that has obscene amounts of edge enhancement applied to it, so of course it's 'sharp'.

I just tried applying unsharp mask in photoshop to some of The Order screens, and sure enough it makes them far sharper looking too. Which, of course, you can do on the TV as well, by turning the sharpness up.

Edge enhancement? Do you mean post process sharpening? Why don't we just ask the person who took the shot?

Cyberpunked... what say thee?

There's no edge enhancements applied at all in my image. Just good old fashioned 4K with 4xMSAA.

 

[Lord Error]

There's no edge enhancements applied at all in my image. Just good old fashioned 4K with 4xMSAA.

But I see it. There's halo around things which wouldn't be there if there wasn't some post-sharpening happening. I even opened it in Photoshop to make sure, and it's there on all contrasted edges. Maybe your 4K->1080p downsample process includes sharpening like the "Bicubic Sharper" resample option in Photoshop. Mind you, I like the look of that screen despite that. It gives it a touch of surreal-ness.

 

[Lnkn52]

A lot of that fog you are seeing is actually just film grain... true story! Film grain makes games look foggy!

This... is sharp:

This is not-sharp:

Take one frame from any movie and it will not look sharp. RAD was going for cinematic and I'd think they've came close to it.

It's like comparing a digital/film photo (Assassins Creed screenshot) vs. grabbing one frame from a movie (The Order).

 

[Dictator93]

But I see it. There's halo around things which wouldn't be there if there wasn't some post-sharpening happening. I even opened it in Photoshop to make sure, and it's there on all contrasted edges. Maybe your 4K->1080p downsample process includes sharpening like the "Bicubic Sharper" resample option in Photoshop. Mind you, I like the look of that screen despite that. It gives it a touch of surreal-ness.

Fresnel!

 

[Spongebob]

It's funny to see the extent to which certain people are attempting to downplay the insane graphics of this game.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

It is a performance analysis yet they needed to harp on the 'cinematic' gameplay?

Yeah, that comment felt more than a little malapropos and incongruous to the discussion.

Not sure why they included it.

 

[CyberPunked]

But I see it. There's halo around things which wouldn't be there if there wasn't some post-sharpening happening. I even opened it in Photoshop to make sure, and it's there on all contrasted edges. Maybe your 4K->1080p downsample process includes sharpening like the "Bicubic Sharper" resample option in Photoshop. Mind you, I like the look of that screen despite that. It gives it a touch of surreal-ness.

It was captured at native 4K, no downsample for me.

 

[CyberPunked]

Take one frame from any movie and it will not look sharp. RAD was going for cinematic and I'd think they've came close to it.

It's like comparing a digital/film photo (Assassins Creed screenshot) vs. grabbing one frame from a movie (The Order).

I think the argument that they wanted 'cinematic' visuals to justify the awful amount of image blur just 'because films do it', makes as much sense as the argument that 30fps is superior than 60fps for this game because films aren't in 60fps. This is a game, not a film. Part of the reason this is one of the lowest rated games for the PS4...

 

[twobear]

looking at screenshots of the order, I don't think I would guess it's native resolution from the image quality, but i do think that the 'soft' look is deliberate

it's a towering technical achievement, either way

 

[Shin-Ra]

No. But it looks great imo. I'm of the opinion that it fits the setting and atmosphere. Also.. I kinda feel some games have textures that are too sharp/ too digital.

Catherine benefited from Quincunx AA on PS3, softening the image slightly vs 2xMSAA on 360.

http://ps360.ldblog.jp/archives/51675117.html

 

[nelsonroyale]

I think the argument that they wanted 'cinematic' visuals to justify the awful amount of image blur just 'because films do it', makes as much sense as the argument that 30fps is superior than 60fps for this game because films aren't in 60fps. This is a game, not a film. Part of the reason this is one of the lowest rated games for the PS4...

Do you really believe that? That is not a very intelligent thing to say...

 

[Dictator93]

Do you really believe that? That is not a very intelligent thing to say...

I think he is referencing the commentary found in reviews about the filmic vision of the game getting in the way of gameplay priorities.

 

[LCGeek]

I think he is referencing the commentary found in reviews about the filmic vision of the game getting in the way of gameplay priorities.

Knew it would happen myself but hey we have purty looking console title for a little bit of time. To know devs want to top this console or not has me very happy.

 

[Tidus_Great]

100% honest black bars suck but besides that the game is gorgeous. If all next gen games can look like the order without the black bars at 30FPS solid i'd be very happy.

also they should not make comments outside of tech analysis they just sound stupid.

 

[thebloo]

looking at screenshots of the order, I don't think I would guess it's native resolution from the image quality, but i do think that the 'soft' look is deliberate

it's a towering technical achievement, either way

On a TV it's clearly 1080p. There's a loss of IQ in the screenshots that's higher on this game. Probably due to the softness of the original image and the various post-process filters.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Maybe your 4K->1080p downsample process includes sharpening like the "Bicubic Sharper" resample option in Photoshop.

Just checked this myself and this appears correct. Automatic will also choose Bicubic Sharper for a downscaled image.

 

[Saint of Killers]

I love how people try and tell a site what they should and shouldn't be writing about.

It's strange because they present their reports in a very just the facts manner, but then throw in how they feel about the game personally, which is something there is no technical measure for unlike the rest of the piece.

 

[nelsonroyale]

I think he is referencing the commentary found in reviews about the filmic vision of the game getting in the way of gameplay priorities.

I suppose I can see that. Just because a game emulates the visual style of a certain type of film, doesn't mean it needs to be so restricted from a gameplay perspective. I agree there is a happy medium, which I feel the uncharted games have always captured so well...

 

[Lord Error]

It was captured at native 4K, no downsample for me.

I see. But your full res image (which doesn't have post-sharpen) was not the one posted earlier in this thread. A downnsampled one was posted which featured post sharpen. Your image immediately doesn't look so surreal sharp as the other one when scaled down to 1920x720 using normal bicubic.

100% honest black bars suck but besides that the game is gorgeous. If all next gen games can look like the order without the black bars at 30FPS solid i'd be very happy.

They could have easily made this game 1600x900, full screen no black bars, if they wanted, and it'd have same performance. 900p is actually slightly less pixels than 1920x800 that they went with.

 

[Javin98]

I think when people say that (myself included) they don't think of latest Disney or Pixar stuff, but more like CG used for that one Assassin's Creed Unity trailer, which this game really does look very close to IMO.

Earlier, a photo of Big Hero 6 was posted, so we were indeed talking about how The Order looks compared to latest Pixar movies. But if we're talking about CGI trailers for games, The Order does look very close or even better than most trailers.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Earlier, a photo of Big Hero 6 was posted, so we were indeed talking about how The Order looks compared to latest Pixar movies. But if we're talking about CGI trailers for games, The Order does look very close or even better than most trailers.

Better than most movie trailers?

Ummmmmmm no!

Look I think it looks amazing. I'd say definitely the best looking game of all time on console. However, we still have a ways to go before graphics can gain parity with CGI movies.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Saw this was posted elsewhere, but it probably belongs here.

NX Gamer analysis.

 

[funkystudent]

Leadbetter going full troll. lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2BbFQEpCtw

 

[travisbickle]

Leadbetter going full troll. lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2BbFQEpCtw

Leadbetter's pro-Sony bias showing! That's longer than the Youtuber guy.

 

[Javin98]

Better than most movie trailers?

Ummmmmmm no!

Look I think it looks amazing. I'd say definitely the best looking game of all time on console. However, we still have a ways to go before graphics can gain parity with CGI movies.

Dude, read my posts again but more carefully this time. I never said it looked better than movie trailers. I said it looked better than most CGI trailers for GAMES. I even stated the assets that need to be improved to match CGI movies.

 

[d9b]

I hear nothing but great things about graphics and performance from people playing at the moment (and gameplay too by the way). Yet to experience this game myself.

 

[dark10x]

Leadbetter going full troll. lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2BbFQEpCtw

Nah, it's the same thing that was done for Vanquish. Both games received a LOT of bad press regarding their short length prior to release - this is simply a response to that. Not a troll.

 

[KingFire]

The gameplay is so bad that even DF had to comment on?

Damn.

 

[dracula_x]

There's no edge enhancements applied at all in my image. Just good old fashioned 4K with 4xMSAA.

One question, what kind of PC you have?

 

[adamsapple]

Nah, it's the same thing that was done for Vanquish. Both games received a LOT of bad press regarding their short length prior to release - this is simply a response to that. Not a troll.

There's a certain subset of GAF which believes Digital foundry is the spawn of satan .. i don't think any explanation you give them will quell them.

 

[Anarion07]

Saw this was posted elsewhere, but it probably belongs here.

NX Gamer analysis.

Holy shit at the lips sticking together @ 10:30

 

[Phreak47]

Hell, they ought to let them take that engine and build another GOW game with it. They did a good job on the PSP ones.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Hell, they ought to let them take that engine and build another GOW game with it. They did a good job on the PSP ones.

If RAD have achieved this, imagine what Santa Monica are doing with their engine and God of War.....

 

[Inuhanyou]

So, i had not actually seen a lot of gameplay for this game....i just saw the first 25 minutes or so on NicoNico(some japanese player was playing it with little compression)

HOLY FUCKING SHIT. The art design and graphic rendering in this game is godlike. The biggest thing is how light reacts to materials. The main character picked up a whiskey container thing and it actually gleaned in the sun like an actual piece of metal would. This is ridiculous. RAD can't just let this tech go to waste

 

[thelastword]

Saw this was posted elsewhere, but it probably belongs here.

NX Gamer analysis.

Very Informative. So in summary.

Best shader work: (best looking glass, clothes, wood, bricks, metal etc.) includes POM, best PBR in any game.
SSR+ (AAOCR derivative: it does reflections ssr would not cover, Cube maps)
SSSsub surface scattering) (Environs, ear, nose etc.)
Best Shadows: (High quality, dynamic shadows, non jaggy, umbra+penumbra)
Best IQ: (4x MSAA in addition to composite work on textures with temporal AA on top)
Best Animation: (By far, bests all pre-rendered movies in games like ryse and uncharted, also it's all realtime)
Sound Quality: Echoes (yell, reverberation, occlusion), footsteps on all surfaces are appropriate, bones crackle, neck snaps and punches are visceral, guns sound exact and punchy.
Sound Design: Best in any game, great sound themes for different moods, clarity is spectacular, bests TLOU in that department.
PP and Alpha Effects:All high Quality, High quality MB, DOF(includes bokeh), subtle CA. High quality smoke, fog and explosions.
Lighting: (HQ Hdr, volumetric lighting for tone and atmosphere includes specular, best color grading in any game, light sources like muzzleflashes behave realistically and are prominent or less so depending on distance from the camera.
Physics: (Affects hair and cloth in windy scenes)
Performance: Solid 30


In essence, most impressive/cohesive graphical presentation out there, bar none, and will be the standard by which all other games are judged going forward. It's sound quality is also at the top of the table. In terms of advancement from last gen, the gears of war of this generation.

 

[veggiesaurus]

Saw this was posted elsewhere, but it probably belongs here.

NX Gamer analysis.

That was a million times better than the DF analysis. Really informative stuff, and very objective.

 

[d9b]

So, i had not actually seen a lot of gameplay for this game....i just saw the first 25 minutes or so on NicoNico(some japanese player was playing it with little compression)

HOLY FUCKING SHIT. The art design and graphic rendering in this game is godlike. The biggest thing is how light reacts to materials. The main character picked up a whiskey container thing and it actually gleaned in the sun like an actual piece of metal would. This is ridiculous. RAD can't just let this tech go to waste

I've heard people waiting for cutscene(s) to finish without realising they were back in control of the game... Smooth transition between cutscenes and gameplay. It's that good. I want to see this...That's it, I'm buying this on Monday, F the reviews!

 

[Insane Metal]

Very Informative. So in summary.

Best shader work: (best looking glass, clothes, wood, bricks, metal etc.) includes POM, best PBR in any game.
SSR+ (AAOCR derivative: it does reflections ssr would not cover, Cube maps)
SSSsub surface scattering) (Environs, ear, nose etc.)
Best Shadows: (High quality, dynamic shadows, non jaggy, umbra+penumbra)
Best IQ: (4x MSAA in addition to composite work on textures with temporal AA on top)
Best Animation: (By far, bests all pre-rendered movies in games like ryse and uncharted, also it's all realtime)
Sound Quality: Echoes (yell, reverberation, occlusion), footsteps on all surfaces are appropriate, bones crackle, neck snaps and punches are visceral, guns sound exact and punchy.
Sound Design: Best in any game, great sound themes for different moods, clarity is spectacular, bests TLOU in that department.
PP and Alpha Effects:All high Quality, High quality MB, DOF(includes bokeh), subtle CA. High quality smoke, fog and explosions.
Lighting: (HQ Hdr, volumetric lighting for tone and atmosphere includes specular, best color grading in any game, light sources like muzzleflashes behave realistically and are prominent or less so depending on distance from the camera.
Physics: (Affects hair and cloth in windy scenes)
Performance: Solid 30


In essence, most impressive/cohesive graphical presentation out there, bar none, and will be the standard by which all other games are judged going forward. It's sound quality is also at the top of the table. In terms of advancement from last gen, the gears of war of this generation.

There's no doubt the game is very very impressive graphically. It's just sad that they worried so much about the technical showcase and forgot to add some fun and some more gameplay. There's just too much time spent with cutscenes and QTEs, and there's almost no freedom of choice during gameplay. It's as linear as it gets. I like linear games. But not 100% linear games. There should be some room for they player to choose.

 

[d9b]

There's no doubt the game is very very impressive graphically. It's just sad that they worried so much about the technical showcase and forgot to add some fun and some more gameplay. There's just too much time spent with cutscenes and QTEs, and there's almost no freedom of choice during gameplay. It's as linear as it gets. I like linear games. But not 100% linear games. There should be some room for they player to choose.

I mean this is DF performance thread after all.
But, to be honest I hear oposite of what you're saying about gameplay (cutscenes and QTEs) from people playing as we speak. Did you play the game yourself?

 

[FranXico]

I mean this is DF performance thread after all.
But, to be honest I hear oposite of what you're saying about gameplay (cutscenes and QTEs) from people playing as we speak. Did you play the game yourself?

You may not have asked me, but I thought I would chime in. I started playing it last night.

The gunfights are satisfying, although in the early levels, I don't think the AI really had much of a chance to show its worth yet, if it is any good. Shooting baddies is fun in any case.

For me personally, the amount of cut scenes and control restrictions (such as disabling running) during exposition is a bit intrusive. QTE is about the same is in other games we've seen so far, I think. Maybe people are growing tired of QTE.

If RAD get a chance of making a sequel, I hope they address these issues and include more gameplay over narrative. I love the setting and art direction in this game, I just haven't really gotten the chance to enjoy playing it enough yet.

 

[thelastword]

There's no doubt the game is very very impressive graphically. It's just sad that they worried so much about the technical showcase and forgot to add some fun and some more gameplay. There's just too much time spent with cutscenes and QTEs, and there's almost no freedom of choice during gameplay. It's as linear as it gets. I like linear games. But not 100% linear games. There should be some room for they player to choose.

I like tps, so by default I have no problems with the gameplay. I understand when you say you may want more gameplay and less cutscenes and perhaps that can be remedied in the sequel. As it stands, this is a very small team and to have nailed graphics and sound in one fell swoop is really unheard of.

It may not be the longest game, but the gameplay that's there is not broken though, guns feel amazing, some really intense scenes and performance is great. Perhaps they could flesh it out a little more, but I have no doubt they will, thank god they gave us this engine though. It just goes to show what a closed box can do. I won't go too much into gameplay, but I normally appreciate every game for what it is, once it's not broken or unplayable. I remember certain persons argued that uncharted had too much shooting, that drake was a mass murderer and that the game needed more exploring. Maybe RAD was going for more of that.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Holy shit at the lips sticking together @ 10:30

Yeah, that sort of attention to detail is incredible.

 

[Radec]

Saw this was posted elsewhere, but it probably belongs here.

NX Gamer analysis.

Way better than the DF analysis.

 

[CozMick]

Very Informative. So in summary.

Best shader work: (best looking glass, clothes, wood, bricks, metal etc.) includes POM, best PBR in any game.
SSR+ (AAOCR derivative: it does reflections ssr would not cover, Cube maps)
SSSsub surface scattering) (Environs, ear, nose etc.)
Best Shadows: (High quality, dynamic shadows, non jaggy, umbra+penumbra)
Best IQ: (4x MSAA in addition to composite work on textures with temporal AA on top)
Best Animation: (By far, bests all pre-rendered movies in games like ryse and uncharted, also it's all realtime)
Sound Quality: Echoes (yell, reverberation, occlusion), footsteps on all surfaces are appropriate, bones crackle, neck snaps and punches are visceral, guns sound exact and punchy.
Sound Design: Best in any game, great sound themes for different moods, clarity is spectacular, bests TLOU in that department.
PP and Alpha Effects:All high Quality, High quality MB, DOF(includes bokeh), subtle CA. High quality smoke, fog and explosions.
Lighting: (HQ Hdr, volumetric lighting for tone and atmosphere includes specular, best color grading in any game, light sources like muzzleflashes behave realistically and are prominent or less so depending on distance from the camera.
Physics: (Affects hair and cloth in windy scenes)
Performance: Solid 30


In essence, most impressive/cohesive graphical presentation out there, bar none, and will be the standard by which all other games are judged going forward. It's sound quality is also at the top of the table. In terms of advancement from last gen, the gears of war of this generation.

Very informative post, thanks.

The Order 1886 really is the benchmark as it stands in current day gaming. wow.

 

[Sean*O]

That NX Gamer vid was great.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Way better than the DF analysis.

NX Gamer's videos do a really good job of catching small details and presenting them in a way that's easy to see. Some users have harped on past videos for having some inaccuracies (regarding terms mostly), but I think overall, he does a very good job—especially here. Definitely deserves more recognition.

 

[thelastword]

Nxgamer videos are probably the most informative source out there discussing console game technology. Anyone who's not even into tech can learn quite a bit from him and get an appreciation of it. Maybe it's his delivery in video form, it's said that we learn more through visual aides, he will show you what he's talking about and that is worth more than a thousand words.

In every single video Nxgamer covers and discovers more than Digital Foundry's complete analysis, with AC-U, FC4, GTA5 etc...I so wished he did DA.I. His dying light video was only preliminary and yet it was more in-depth than DF's full article. I appreciate good work and hope he gets all the success he deserves.

I find the people who always have something negative to say about Nxgamer are usually those trying to save face. Making a big deal about an odd term used, presenting the molehill whilst ignoring the mountain of information he provides (which is not as extensive anywhere else). It's a bit worrying that persons can't be honest and commend someone for some factually sound good work.

 

[nampad]

I've heard people waiting for cutscene(s) to finish without realising they were back in control of the game... Smooth transition between cutscenes and gameplay. It's that good. I want to see this...That's it, I'm buying this on Monday, F the reviews!

Graphics wise the transition is good but the rest is nowhere from smooth. I am in chapter 4 and the cutscene blending has been really really bad so far. Reminded me of Tomb Raider 2013 or any BF campaign.
Really makes one appreciate the skill of ND's blending of gameplay with cutscenes, still haven't seen anyone come close.