Draugoth
Gold Member
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Digital Foundry: The Witcher 3 PC - Next-Gen - Game-Changing Visuals But What About Performance?
Low Moral Fibre
Member
It's a shame the DX12 RT mode is so poor on anything that doesn't have DLSS 3 (and even then you have shader stutter) as it looks absolutely great. I can't imagine they will throw more resources at the old engine to improve CPU utilisation that much but fingers crossed I guess.
The console version is unplayable in RT mode (for me at least - so much input lag) and the DX11 version looks and runs so much better than the PS5 performance mode so I've been replaying it on PC.
The PS5 version drops to the 40s in Novigrad and possibly lower if you use Witcher sense while I can't get it to go lower than about 70fps on a 2070s. The FSR on console can look absolutely awful with some horrendous artifacting while IQ is decent on PC.
It's a shame CDPR are catching so much flak for a free upgrade but I guess the issues are obvious. I'm happy at least and maybe I'll finish my playthrough with RT and DLSS 3 when I upgrade in the new year.
The console version is unplayable in RT mode (for me at least - so much input lag) and the DX11 version looks and runs so much better than the PS5 performance mode so I've been replaying it on PC.
The PS5 version drops to the 40s in Novigrad and possibly lower if you use Witcher sense while I can't get it to go lower than about 70fps on a 2070s. The FSR on console can look absolutely awful with some horrendous artifacting while IQ is decent on PC.
It's a shame CDPR are catching so much flak for a free upgrade but I guess the issues are obvious. I'm happy at least and maybe I'll finish my playthrough with RT and DLSS 3 when I upgrade in the new year.
Mr Wonderstuff
Banned
Bloody well should think so.
Mister Wolf
Member
4A Games, Crytech, and now Epic with Lumen are the only developers who have mastered raytraced lighting and know how to keep it performant while maintaining acceptable quality.
Hugare
Member
Feels like Alex didnt give them enough shit for the lack of optimization + bugs
Game looks absolutely awesome, but only 2 CPU threads being used is just absurd
DX 12 is a mess. Seems like every release on it has problems.
Hopefuly they will improve it, at least marginaly on PC and consoles
I'm eager to play it, but on PC I have huge framedrops in Novigrad and the RT version on PS5 is horrible to play
I think Cyberpunk today runs pretty great considering what it's doing visually
And it uses way more Ray Tracing stuff than Metro or Crysis (GI, shadows, reflections and AO)
Not saying that Crytek or 4A Games implementation arent great, but Cyberpunk is no slouch
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
General improvements
- Geometry is greatly improved overall. In Novigrad, the cobblestone is now in 3D geometry instead of a flat texture
- Improved textures and materials all around and on NPCs
- Hero characters such as Geralt get more detailed shadows that were otherwise reserved only for cutscenes
- Individual torches now cast shadows
- Greatly improved grass and foliage density
- Improved draw distances
- Improved NPC density (also applies to creatures and animals)
- The intro's FMV in Kaear Moran is now real time and no longer locked to 30fps at console settings
- Improved mesh LOD. One of the most readily visible upgrades that is not RT.
Ray tracing (DX12 only)
- RTGI, shadows, reflections, and AO, are all there
- Dramatic improvement over the old version
- Bounce lights, diffused shadows, bodies of water reflecting the world around them
- NPC armors are no longer using cubemaps but ray tracing
- The hue of the game completely changes at times going from a blue/grey color to a warmer, yellowish/orange tone coming from the sun
- Foliage has proper shadows, giving them a much more grounded appearance
- RT shadows are sharper up close and softer at a distance as they should be. The level of sharpness is mostly the same all around in the original version
- Distance objects also have shadows
- Shadows have flickering issues at times
- Fidelity of the shadows can change based upon the camera and movement, distracting the presentation
- They appear in and out of existence but overall, it's not recommended to turn them on at the moment
- In a particular scene in the beginning, Geralt's hair isn't properly shaded being too dark
- Imperfect RT reflections. In some instances where the water is flowing, the reflections don't warp and remain still like in a mirror
- Not all objects render in the reflections. Trees and other objects pop in and out of the reflections based on the distance
- CDPR is working on fixing those issues with the reflections
- Even considering the issues, the improvements are great
Performance
- DX12 without RT and DX11 version appear identical
- Even without RT, the DX12 version is about 30% heavier on the CPU
- The DX12 version is heavily single-threaded. One or two threads show 70%+ usage while the others remain unused
- The frame rate gets so bad in Novigrad that the CPU performance drops even more than Flight Simulator
- The issue is lessened when in the wilderness. It's a major problem in populated areas
- The 12900K is unable to lock at 60fps with Ultra+settings and RT no matter what you do. It drops to the 40s at times
- The 3600 suffers worse, dropping to below 30fps in Novigrad
- RTGI alone drops the performance by 35% on a 12900K+RTX 4090
- The 3600 loses 37% of its performance with RTGI
- Other RT effects further drop performance incrementally with reflections having the greatest impact. About a 15% further drop from Ultra+ with RTGI
- CPU limits can be greatly reduced with DLSS3 frame generation
- Latency with frame generation goes from 56ms to 59ms but performance can more than double
- There are a few shader compilation issues. Nowhere near as bad as games like Callisto Protocol
- The camera is jittery and appears to stop and fast-forward at times during stutters
- Overall, great visual improvements but has major issues, especially in regards to performance
- The game still needs a lot of work
- Geometry is greatly improved overall. In Novigrad, the cobblestone is now in 3D geometry instead of a flat texture
- Improved textures and materials all around and on NPCs
- Hero characters such as Geralt get more detailed shadows that were otherwise reserved only for cutscenes
- Individual torches now cast shadows
- Greatly improved grass and foliage density
- Improved draw distances
- Improved NPC density (also applies to creatures and animals)
- The intro's FMV in Kaear Moran is now real time and no longer locked to 30fps at console settings
- Improved mesh LOD. One of the most readily visible upgrades that is not RT.
Ray tracing (DX12 only)
- RTGI, shadows, reflections, and AO, are all there
- Dramatic improvement over the old version
- Bounce lights, diffused shadows, bodies of water reflecting the world around them
- NPC armors are no longer using cubemaps but ray tracing
- The hue of the game completely changes at times going from a blue/grey color to a warmer, yellowish/orange tone coming from the sun
- Foliage has proper shadows, giving them a much more grounded appearance
- RT shadows are sharper up close and softer at a distance as they should be. The level of sharpness is mostly the same all around in the original version
- Distance objects also have shadows
- Shadows have flickering issues at times
- Fidelity of the shadows can change based upon the camera and movement, distracting the presentation
- They appear in and out of existence but overall, it's not recommended to turn them on at the moment
- In a particular scene in the beginning, Geralt's hair isn't properly shaded being too dark
- Imperfect RT reflections. In some instances where the water is flowing, the reflections don't warp and remain still like in a mirror
- Not all objects render in the reflections. Trees and other objects pop in and out of the reflections based on the distance
- CDPR is working on fixing those issues with the reflections
- Even considering the issues, the improvements are great
Performance
- DX12 without RT and DX11 version appear identical
- Even without RT, the DX12 version is about 30% heavier on the CPU
- The DX12 version is heavily single-threaded. One or two threads show 70%+ usage while the others remain unused
- The frame rate gets so bad in Novigrad that the CPU performance drops even more than Flight Simulator
- The issue is lessened when in the wilderness. It's a major problem in populated areas
- The 12900K is unable to lock at 60fps with Ultra+settings and RT no matter what you do. It drops to the 40s at times
- The 3600 suffers worse, dropping to below 30fps in Novigrad
- RTGI alone drops the performance by 35% on a 12900K+RTX 4090
- The 3600 loses 37% of its performance with RTGI
- Other RT effects further drop performance incrementally with reflections having the greatest impact. About a 15% further drop from Ultra+ with RTGI
- CPU limits can be greatly reduced with DLSS3 frame generation
- Latency with frame generation goes from 56ms to 59ms but performance can more than double
- There are a few shader compilation issues. Nowhere near as bad as games like Callisto Protocol
- The camera is jittery and appears to stop and fast-forward at times during stutters
- Overall, great visual improvements but has major issues, especially in regards to performance
- The game still needs a lot of work
I wouldn't say unplayable, like CP2077 was on base PS4 at release. However, frame pacing is abysmal with RT on. Even with micro stutter on PC you get there a smoother RT experience (given you have the hardware).
Performance mode seems to be solid in scenarios I've tested. RT, however, aren't stable 30fps. My TV's refresh rate is constantly changing, indicating small fluctuations, but big and bad enough to notice when paning the camera.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I am already here
17fps more than console on top of the top of the line pc. CPU limited .... because why? Not like NPCs are doing anything cpu intensive....
Also, there is memory leak, and it runs about 25-35fps for ma maxed out and drops to 8fps if I fast travel few times.
So yeah. Amazing update visually I guess?
TBH,. the non-RT ultra+ mode looks better than original game, especially with dlss
17fps more than console on top of the top of the line pc. CPU limited .... because why? Not like NPCs are doing anything cpu intensive....
Also, there is memory leak, and it runs about 25-35fps for ma maxed out and drops to 8fps if I fast travel few times.
So yeah. Amazing update visually I guess?
TBH,. the non-RT ultra+ mode looks better than original game, especially with dlss
Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
you should get the mods to update your tag to “owns a 4090” so you don’t have to tell everybody in every thread you enter
Alex11
Member
I am already here
17fps more than console on top of the top of the line pc. CPU limited .... because why? Not like NPCs are doing anything cpu intensive....
Also, there is memory leak, and it runs about 25-35fps for ma maxed out and drops to 8fps if I fast travel few times.
So yeah. Amazing update visually I guess?
TBH,. the non-RT ultra+ mode looks better than original game, especially with dlss
Well, wouldn't normally be higher than 17 if it was at console settings equivalent?
I don't know about the non RT ultra+ vs original, it's missing the HBAO+ and the AA is worse, at least for me, as I can't use dx12 version and I'm limited to 1080p. Without AA it's just plain horror, and TAAU is a bit blurry, especially when raining as the particles are very faded.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Console settings are worse ofcourse
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
It hammers 1-2 threads while the others are sitting still. The GPU usage in this section is at like 60%.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
you should get the mods to update your tag to “owns a 4090” so you don’t have to tell everybody in every thread you enter
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
I can confirm that it also plays okay on 4090 combined with Intel CPU.
kyliethicc
Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I am already here
4090
12900K
WITH DLSS Performance
still not able to reach consistent 60 ?
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
yes it is crazy and I am baffled.4090
12900K
WITH DLSS
still not able to reach consistent 60 ?
CPU limited with 15 npc's walking around in a circle. HEAVY COMPUTE HAPPENING HERE
Denton
Member
DLSS is irrelevant when CPU is the limit.
Unless DLSS3 framegen is enabled, which sidesteps the limit and provides 60+ without issue.
Mister Wolf
Member
4090
12900K
WITH DLSS Performance
still not able to reach consistent 60 ?
Pretty much. I won't even bother running this trash port with my 4090. Would be like feeding truffles to swine.
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DanEON
Member
Try using the in-game vsync. It solved this issue for me.
Zug
Member
Well, the problem with this updates it that only seems to run with RT on a 4090. Even 3080s struggle with it.
5800x3D and 2070s : medium settings + DLSS perf + RT at 1080p = sub 30fps.
CP2077 runs at 50-60fps in 1440p with similar settings, so there's a big optimization problem.
As someone here pointed out, the game uses a very bad dx12-over-dx11 renderer which causes an awful lot of overhead, but it is not something easy to fix unless they can change the engine itself to include these advanced dx12 features (RT, DLSS...).
At least it was a free update, but still disapointing.
5800x3D and 2070s : medium settings + DLSS perf + RT at 1080p = sub 30fps.
CP2077 runs at 50-60fps in 1440p with similar settings, so there's a big optimization problem.
As someone here pointed out, the game uses a very bad dx12-over-dx11 renderer which causes an awful lot of overhead, but it is not something easy to fix unless they can change the engine itself to include these advanced dx12 features (RT, DLSS...).
At least it was a free update, but still disapointing.
GHG
Member
4090
12900K
WITH DLSS Performance
still not able to reach consistent 60 ?
I can without using DLSS at all.
I once doubted the power of frame generation, now I have been awakened.
lukilladog
Member
CDPR would not be of much help to nvidia if it ran well on "old" cards, this is what we get from putrid relationships like these.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Every. Single. Time.spent like 3000 on hardware
can manage to run a game from 7 years ago
Hugare
Member
DanEON
Member
Yep, but better than having those huge fps drops.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Riva Tuner to the rescue. Locking frame rate with it has historically been good for Witcher 3.
Hugare
Member
Sad that maybe we cant have both
Why vsync would cause this memory leak, tho? Very weird
But I expect anything from this patch
I'll try with Riva.
I've been using the Nvidia driver vsync.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Don't spendspent like 3000 on hardware
can manage to run a game from 7 years ago
Plays like peasant/shit.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
So unplayable that I’ve put 60 hours in a new play trough since 4.0 patch dropped.
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poodaddy
Member
Nah, not at all. If you wanna play without RT it runs just fine and still looks far better than the original, though ray tracing performance is a kind of crazy expensive right now for sure. After the latest patch my performance has improved slightly and the microstutter has massively improved. All settings maxed, DLSS to performance, 1440p, I'm getting around 35 to 41 fps, which I'm not thrilled with but on a VRR monitor it's not untenable. Turn off RT and I sit consistently above 70 fps with DLSS on quality and all other settings maxed. I've a 9700k and an RTX 2080 for whatever that's worth.
Strider Highwind
Banned
Running it on a 4090. When it runs, it runs excellent maxed out.
But it crashes a lot. 6 times in the past 12 hours, 2 of those after a complete reinstall. I think ima just go finish the other pile of stuff im playing through and give this one like 3 or 4 patches. Put over 100 hours into it back when it originally launched on my Xbox(The save thing was pretty easy lol) so im not hard pressed to play it, really just wanna run around looking at stuff lol
But it crashes a lot. 6 times in the past 12 hours, 2 of those after a complete reinstall. I think ima just go finish the other pile of stuff im playing through and give this one like 3 or 4 patches. Put over 100 hours into it back when it originally launched on my Xbox(The save thing was pretty easy lol) so im not hard pressed to play it, really just wanna run around looking at stuff lol
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The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
I mean ofc 4090/80 users are going to cope cuz they got scammed by nvidia and have buyers remorse, but they'll never admit it. Glad an old game barely runs good on your scammed overpriced gpu my dudes.
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kyliethicc
Member
buying a 4090 and then celebrating when playing the witcher 3Don't spend
Plays like peasant/shit.
is like
buying a ferrari and then celebrating when driving to the grocery store
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
If anything, those with lower end cards got shafted. The only way to play with all the bells and whistles and maintain a good performance is with frame generation.I mean ofc 4090/80 users are going to cope cuz they got scammed by nvidia and have buyers remorse, but they'll never admit it. Glad an old game barely runs good on your scammed overpriced gpu my dudes.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Thats on CDPR, shame on them for yet again screwing consumers. This was clearly just a 4090 patch and no optimizations were done at all, on the contrary, it runs worse and shadows look worse on dx11 than before next-gen patch but thats fine.
HBAO removed from game
Just noticed that the new update have removed HBAO from the game and replaced it with only SSAO, so the graphics looks much worse now if not playing with ray-tracing on. This seems like a very strange move as the ray-tracing definetly is more demanding and only have an on/off switch. Please...
forums.cdprojektred.com
CDPR with Nvidia
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AnotherOne
Member
Alex11
Member
Thought I was mistaken or done something wrong, glad (well not really glad) I'm not the only one that noticed that it runs worse than the original at the exact same settings on dx11.
ZehDon
Member
Well, shit: they actually DID remove HBAO from the game via the next-gen patch. For comparison, this what was available prior to the next-gen patch. That's... pretty fucking disgraceful.
Alex11
Member
It kinda is, although maybe it isn't intentional. But that's not all, the water reflections are also a bit worse and as I wrote earlier the AA too, it's a mess without it.
Kenpachii
Member
HBAO got removed out of it, and modded already looked like that if not better and u still have to mod it anyway because of the weight limit and teleport from everywhere they didn't include into the base game as options, the game doesn't even support 21:9 displays its a joke.
So how exactly is this shit just fine? U want this shit for the RT and ultra+ settings, but it nukes performance from 140 fps old game without dlss to sub 30 with stutter everywhere with DLSS. It's a joke.
Its unplayable. Also lol at barely 30 fps framerates, imagine thinking thats playable, i got a 9900k and 3080 and with RT shit on and ultra+ it drops below the 30 fps even with DLSS performance. and DLSS performance is shit.
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ToTTenTranz
Banned
Looking at eurogamer's article, it looks like CDPR went with Nvidia's RTX tools once again, as if they didn't learn how much of a clusterfuck that resulted with Cyberpunk.
You know Nvidia's RTX (anti-)optimization tools have gone too far when even their 2000€ "consumer" GPU fails to provide decent framerates on a 7 year-old game that got the raytracing treatment.
Unless they're actually trying to wrap people's minds about buying the RTX 5090 for a modest 4000€, a year from now.
Considering how the Matrix demo looks on the measly PS5 / Series X at 4K30, just imagine what a 5x more powerful RTX 4090 should be able to do.
It's not "something that looks like Witcher 3 RTX", that much we should all agree on.
You know Nvidia's RTX (anti-)optimization tools have gone too far when even their 2000€ "consumer" GPU fails to provide decent framerates on a 7 year-old game that got the raytracing treatment.
Unless they're actually trying to wrap people's minds about buying the RTX 5090 for a modest 4000€, a year from now.
Considering how the Matrix demo looks on the measly PS5 / Series X at 4K30, just imagine what a 5x more powerful RTX 4090 should be able to do.
It's not "something that looks like Witcher 3 RTX", that much we should all agree on.