People rip on Inquisition for boring open world zones (and some of it is deserved) but I think the game is another home run in terms of lore and world building. Dragon Age as a series (and Mass Effect 1-3) have fantastic universes built on interesting history and inter-culture dynamics. Who isn't curious about where DA4 goes after the ending of Inquisition and Trespasser?
Discussion: Your thoughts and opinion on Bioware
- Thread starter Gunslinger
- Start date
Baldurs Gate: 9/10
Baldurs Gate 2: 10/10
Neverwinter Nights: 8.5/10
KOTOR: 9.5/10
Jade Empire: 7/10
Mass Effect: 9/10
Dragon Age Origins: 9/10
Mass Effect 2: 9.5/10
Mass Effect 3: 8/10
Dragon Age Inquisition: 7.5/10
Bioware was my favorite developer up until 2010. ME2 was their last great game. Now I can't even get that hyped for their releases.
Oh well Baldur's Gate 2 is still the GOAT videogame and only game I have ever given 10/10.
Baldurs Gate 2: 10/10
Neverwinter Nights: 8.5/10
KOTOR: 9.5/10
Jade Empire: 7/10
Mass Effect: 9/10
Dragon Age Origins: 9/10
Mass Effect 2: 9.5/10
Mass Effect 3: 8/10
Dragon Age Inquisition: 7.5/10
Bioware was my favorite developer up until 2010. ME2 was their last great game. Now I can't even get that hyped for their releases.
Oh well Baldur's Gate 2 is still the GOAT videogame and only game I have ever given 10/10.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
They are a developer that have lost confidence in creating new, unique experiences and instead keep looking at other games for guidance on how to go forward... A policy that keeps putting them one step behind the competition instead of ahead.
Mr.Deadshot
Member
I don't think the game had a lot of problems. The overall story was too generic fantasy stuff and the game was a bit too long for it's own good. Also party-size should have been six instead of four. Seriously, why do so many (C)RPGs go with four instead of six characters? It's so hard to cover most of the aspects with a four-man-party. But I don't see "a lot of problems" in Dragon Age: Origins. It is a very solid, classic CRPG.
And that's why I will never understand why they didn't build upon that with the sequels. Probably because of console-gameplay. DA: O was meant to be played on a PC, but it worked surprisingly well with a controller.
Over the years I have realized that Bioware games are anti-fun for me, mostly starting with their console efforts. BG 1 & 2 and NWN were decent but you could see the beginnings of the problems that would plague their future releases.
Starting with Kotor I had this same realization happen during every Bioware game I tried up through ME2 before I just gave up on them completely.
Hours 1-3: Wow this is pretty fun, this should be a good ride.
Hours 4-6: Well it's not as fun as I thought but it's ok, I'll finish the game.
Hours 7-10: Wait no, this game is actually no fun at all. Why am I even playing this?
Hour 11-12: Turn off the game and delete my save file because the game is so anti-fun that I can't fathom even playing the game one more minute.
I've realized that the way they make their games from the characters to the combat to the underlying system just don't work for me. I've given enough of their games a try and had the same thing happen with all of them. I will no longer even try their new games because I know I'll just be wasting my time.
I also realize that my experience is far from typical with Bioware and that a lot of people do enjoy the things that I don't. I won't criticize people for liking the things that I don't, and I won't try to convince them that they are wrong. I'm actually glad Opinions and tastes vary and this one thing where mine just don't don't line up with the overall feelings about something.
Starting with Kotor I had this same realization happen during every Bioware game I tried up through ME2 before I just gave up on them completely.
Hours 1-3: Wow this is pretty fun, this should be a good ride.
Hours 4-6: Well it's not as fun as I thought but it's ok, I'll finish the game.
Hours 7-10: Wait no, this game is actually no fun at all. Why am I even playing this?
Hour 11-12: Turn off the game and delete my save file because the game is so anti-fun that I can't fathom even playing the game one more minute.
I've realized that the way they make their games from the characters to the combat to the underlying system just don't work for me. I've given enough of their games a try and had the same thing happen with all of them. I will no longer even try their new games because I know I'll just be wasting my time.
I also realize that my experience is far from typical with Bioware and that a lot of people do enjoy the things that I don't. I won't criticize people for liking the things that I don't, and I won't try to convince them that they are wrong. I'm actually glad Opinions and tastes vary and this one thing where mine just don't don't line up with the overall feelings about something.
My first experience with Bioware was KOTOR, which I thought was terrible and played through gritted teeth before trading it in for Morrowind.
Mass Effect took several restarts and a lot of perseverance before "the good stuff" started and I really took to the game. Outstanding reveal mid-game and finale balanced by dreary NPC dialogue and the worst side missions ever.
Mass Effect 2 was glorious and I wish I could wipe my mind and rewind time to playing it again.
Mass Effect 3, I mean I felt similar to my playthrough of ME2. I was saddened by the lack of additional locations when compared to ME2 and the ending was truly unexpected. I didn't really mind that it boiled down to a choice, as all my actions had played out over the preceding games to conclusion.
Dragon Age: Origins - was a bit too much like KOTOR in some respects, and OH MY GOD I cannot go through the reams of NPC dialogue in case I miss a quest marker. Yeah, it was ok, I didn't ever finish it and I'm not really fussed that this is a thing.
***
and that is me and BIoware basically. I loved Mass Effect but I hold no special regard outside of this.
Mass Effect took several restarts and a lot of perseverance before "the good stuff" started and I really took to the game. Outstanding reveal mid-game and finale balanced by dreary NPC dialogue and the worst side missions ever.
Mass Effect 2 was glorious and I wish I could wipe my mind and rewind time to playing it again.
Mass Effect 3, I mean I felt similar to my playthrough of ME2. I was saddened by the lack of additional locations when compared to ME2 and the ending was truly unexpected. I didn't really mind that it boiled down to a choice, as all my actions had played out over the preceding games to conclusion.
Dragon Age: Origins - was a bit too much like KOTOR in some respects, and OH MY GOD I cannot go through the reams of NPC dialogue in case I miss a quest marker. Yeah, it was ok, I didn't ever finish it and I'm not really fussed that this is a thing.
***
and that is me and BIoware basically. I loved Mass Effect but I hold no special regard outside of this.
I guess "a lot" is relative, but there are certainly things that hold it back from being truly great. Some things that stick in my mind
- Tactics system in lieu of good companion AI isn't fun to use nor does it work very well, to the point where if you don't pause at the start of every fight it seems like your party couldn't run fast enough to their untimely death
- Some spells overpowered whereas others mostly useless
- Invisible system breaking bugs (e.g. combining certain skills as a rogue actually decreases your stats)
- Movement through certain environments can become very cumbersome; e.g. having to run down that hill at the entrance of Redcliffe village gives me the 'what am I doing with my life' feeling
- Weird imbalance of useful items; e.g. as a mage, there's a certain hood you pick up early on that looks like you're wearing an eggplant on your head, but the stats are better than anything you get afterwards so you end up wearing it for most of the game
- inventory management sucks as always, and unclear what items you should sell as opposed to keep
- some bosses are unreasonable difficulty spikes unless you use exploits
- player character voice options can be really annoying; e.g. "Can I get you a ladder, so you can get off my back?" can be heard aprx 999999 times in one playthrough if you pick the sarcastic voice option.
- Final battle kind of sucks.
That said, the game is still a ton of fun, as I posted earlier. Imagine if DA:I just tried to refine DA:O instead of diluting it, it could have been amazing.
IlGialloMondadori
Member
Sums up exactly how I felt about da:i combat. Horrible.
spindoctor
Member
A below average developer that is hanging on to a reputation built on past glories. They haven't made a good game in quite some time and they haven't made a good RPG for much longer than that.
captainnapalm
Member
They went open world and it ruined them. They have the worst open worlds in the business. Way worse than Ubisoft.
EventHorizon
Member
It's sad how far BioWare has fallen.
- Dragon Age 2: Felt like a body blow, but hope remained that it was a one-off stumble.
- Mass Effect 3: Was disappointing compared to the prior two games in the series but was an "ok" game judged outside that context.
- Dragon Age: Inquisition: Was so bad that it changed the way I buy video games. Since its release I've been far more critical of games and very rarely buy on day one.
- Mass Effect: Andromeda: Broke the BioWare mystique. Not only was I not interested in buying it day one, but I don't even plan on getting it when it goes on sale.
About Bioware, I didn't play their older games when they were released. Thanks to GOG and Steam, I started catching up.
My first Bioware game was Mass Effect, then ME2 and then DA:O. At that time, I considered ME2 the superior one. Over the years, my opinion of the game has lowered and now I put DA:O and the first ME higher.
DA2 is disappointing to say the least. Same I can say about ME3. Havent played Inquisition yet (despite already owning it in my Origin library) and as for Andromeda, I will wait for the inevitable GOTY edition.
Overall, I would say Baldurs Gate 2 continues being their Magnum Opus. Irenicus is one of the best villains ever created in videogames. The party is also superb, and the overall story of the Bhaal Spawn is quite epic.
After that, I would put Dragon Age Origins or KOTOR in second place. Both are superb games that are true RPGs at heart.
Mass Effect takes the third place. While the gameplay is dated, and the combat mechanics are quite mediocre, it is an awesome RPG experience that sadly, was lost in the sequels.
My first Bioware game was Mass Effect, then ME2 and then DA:O. At that time, I considered ME2 the superior one. Over the years, my opinion of the game has lowered and now I put DA:O and the first ME higher.
DA2 is disappointing to say the least. Same I can say about ME3. Havent played Inquisition yet (despite already owning it in my Origin library) and as for Andromeda, I will wait for the inevitable GOTY edition.
Overall, I would say Baldurs Gate 2 continues being their Magnum Opus. Irenicus is one of the best villains ever created in videogames. The party is also superb, and the overall story of the Bhaal Spawn is quite epic.
After that, I would put Dragon Age Origins or KOTOR in second place. Both are superb games that are true RPGs at heart.
Mass Effect takes the third place. While the gameplay is dated, and the combat mechanics are quite mediocre, it is an awesome RPG experience that sadly, was lost in the sequels.
Omegasquash
Member
My thoughts for the most part, minus the part about them being "irrelevant'. I cede that they are FAR less impactful now than they were before, and that the games they make have evolved in a direction that doesn't pique my interest as much anymore.
I couldn't be bothered to finish ME:3, and haven't finished DA:I. As a matter of fact, I think it's been nearly a year since I played DA:I. Haven't picked up ME:A yet. I picked up the other ME's on day one, but I'm letting this one get to the bargain bin before I try it. I'm sure it's plenty fun and plenty big with plenty of things to do, but there are other games that appeal more to me.
I wish them the best.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Ubisoft doesn't have bad open worlds though. They're just very samey in structure. Bioware should just stay away from the modern open world concept though, I agree. I did enjoy their early efforts at non-linearity in BG1/2 and KotOR however.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I love their games, but they're definitley declining--or just put too many good people on the new Destiny-like IP they're rumored to be working on in their main studio.
That said, I still liked Mass Effect Andromeda and gave it an 8 after beating it at around 68 hours. The technical issues didn't bother me, I missed any major glitches, and I didn't find the writing that bad outside of the main plot being kind of meh. I also like Dragon Age Inquisition a lot, thought DA2 was ok and didn't mind the ME3 ending.
So they're still solid for me, just not at the 9/10 to 10/10 level their games from KOTOR through ME3 were for me.
That said, I still liked Mass Effect Andromeda and gave it an 8 after beating it at around 68 hours. The technical issues didn't bother me, I missed any major glitches, and I didn't find the writing that bad outside of the main plot being kind of meh. I also like Dragon Age Inquisition a lot, thought DA2 was ok and didn't mind the ME3 ending.
So they're still solid for me, just not at the 9/10 to 10/10 level their games from KOTOR through ME3 were for me.
chrominance
Member
As someone who was pretty tolerant of Inquisition's faults and liked the game quite a bit, I also can't tell you how that story ended at all or what I would look forward to in the next game. Part of this is that I haven't played Trespasser, because for some reason I never manage to go back to Bioware games to play DLC (with the sole exception of Mass Effect 2's Shadow Broker).
Regarding Mass Effect: I keep thinking that I'll go back to Andromeda, and I don't think the game deserves the vitriol it gets in some corners (plus I've heard some pretty ridiculous conspiracy theories like "they made Sara Ryder ugly on purpose as a concession to people who don't like attractive people in games"?). But at the same time, it's been weeks since I last played Andromeda, and it's clearly not grabbing me in the same way as previous Mass Effect games. Apparently, a SECOND playthrough of Persona 5 is more important to me than finishing my first playthrough of Andromeda, which isn't a great sign.
I do think the shine has come off the Bioware formula a bit. They're clearly still very ambitious, and they've been trying to evolve the formula in the past few games. And even when I don't like a particular game as much as others, I generally find aspects of them interesting--even Dragon Age 2 had some neat ideas. But considering Andromeda was their chance to go back to the drawing board on a lot of things, it's a little disappointing how same-y it feels in a lot of ways. I don't know if this is just a really slow-rolling version of the EA curse and we should expect Bioware to disappear ten years from now, or if this is just a bad era for them and they'll recover in a few games. But I think Andromeda might be the last Bioware game I buy at launch for a while.
FrontalMonk
Banned
Bioware's problem is that it's still trying to figure out how to make games like a new dev because their turnover has been pretty bad. They had a similar bit of stumbling after black isle died, and bioware/black isle joints were the best in the business, but they've been looking for their mojo for sure ever since the doctors left. I love bioware games in general, but I'd give my bioware rankings as:
BG: 6/10. For the first outing it was incredibly impressive, but I hate hate HATE low level AD&D. That and while many loved the open adventure feel of hitting the wilderness zones, I hated it.
BG2: 10/10. Improved on everything, and as close to a perfect game as BW has ever made. Higher level characters means no more dying to a stray goblin arrow, more variety in equipment and magic, and the areas were jam packed with quests, memorable characters, and great lore. Easily in my top 10 of all time.
NWN: 7/10. The graphics weren't incredible even at the time, and the main campaign was fucking unbearable, but the toolset was great, and we saw some unbelievable stuff come out of it. Good translation of the 3e rule system, as well. Being a P&P player, it was cool to see so much translate over so well.
KOTOR: 7/10. The star wars game. Already got a lot going for it there, but the areas before your jedi training were a slog (my usual setup for playing KOTOR is to immediately get a 'skip taris' mod). Also the typical tropes of how Bioware games operated were starting to get a little long in the tooth at this point, and it felt like Bioware kept going back to the well trying to recapture the lightning in a bottle that was BG2's blend of dialog, character, combat, and story.
ME: 8/10. So much I could say about ME, but I'll say it had the most to prove, and it was the point at which I realized that Bioware had firmly set its foot into the "RPG Hybrid" space. It was brilliantly executed, but some of the RPG elements felt like they missed the mark compared to the shooter gameplay it was trying to emulate. Amusingly, this is the game that felt closest to the current hotness of open world games, Destiny and The Division.
ME2: 10/10. Next to BG2, this is the closest BW has ever come to a perfect storm. I loved the "dirty dozen" style of storytelling over the usual space opera space jesus adventure by digging into the individual characters, and the improvements to combat were great. This felt like the most linear of the ME games, but it also felt like the ME game that capitalized the most on what a linear game allows you to do.
ME3: 7/10. I honestly think ME3 is a game that plays better than ME1, or to an extent better than ME2, but ME3 had the biggest shoes to fill and failed spectacularly to fill them. I beat the game before the extended cut, so I had the most "wtf" moment with it, but the missions in ME3 felt a lot more hit and miss than the ones in ME1 and ME2, with some big time payoffs, and some missions that really fell short. To put it another way, ME3 had the highest highs and the lowest lows.
MEA: 7/10. MEA is one of those games that's intensely divisive on GAF, but I had a blast with it. I'm hoping for more improvements to the multiplayer, and there are some side quests I want to go back to SP for, but all in all this felt like a competent but not fantastic entry in the series made by the b-team where there was a ton of potential and only some of it was used.
DAO: 6/10. Never have I seen a Bioware game that feels like it's trying so hard to be something unique by being so derivative. By now the world of Dragon Age has found an identity, but with DAO the only thing I could think of was that Bioware was trying to recapture the magic of BG2 *again*, only this time before they hit the drawing board they made everyone read Game of Thrones. It just felt like a cheap cobbling together of fantasy tropes and dark gritty medieval realism, and the result was something I enjoyed, but felt like I had already played a better version of already.
DAI: 6/10. The only game on this list that I never beat, but played enough of to form an opinion of (I played some Jade Empire, but only for like 15 minutes, so I don't think it's fair to grade it). If DAO was a studio head trying to recapture the magic of BG2, DAI felt like someone solo questing in wow who said "you know what would be great? if we could put the 'bioware spin' on this!" This is arguably the worst example of how to incorporate MMO-lite gameplay into your title, and I was bored before I got out of the hinterlands. Oh, and before anyone comments on that bit; yes I did leave the hinterlands, and I got through several other zones, but I still never really stayed as entertained as I was in the intro where things were more controlled and linear.
I hope against hope that BW learns that their strengths are not in designing open world games and they keep to linear levels with strong dialog like ME2 or a decent number of moderately sized explorable zones like in BG2. I feel like since the doctors left, though, the direction the studio has taken has been towards making each successive game bigger, without concentrating on the moment to moment quality of the game. Nobody cares if Eos is bigger than every zone in DAI put together if there's only a handful of areas on Eos worth going to. My favorite part of that whole world was the Kett stronghold which was a linear romp through waves of badguys. Well, here's hoping.
BG: 6/10. For the first outing it was incredibly impressive, but I hate hate HATE low level AD&D. That and while many loved the open adventure feel of hitting the wilderness zones, I hated it.
BG2: 10/10. Improved on everything, and as close to a perfect game as BW has ever made. Higher level characters means no more dying to a stray goblin arrow, more variety in equipment and magic, and the areas were jam packed with quests, memorable characters, and great lore. Easily in my top 10 of all time.
NWN: 7/10. The graphics weren't incredible even at the time, and the main campaign was fucking unbearable, but the toolset was great, and we saw some unbelievable stuff come out of it. Good translation of the 3e rule system, as well. Being a P&P player, it was cool to see so much translate over so well.
KOTOR: 7/10. The star wars game. Already got a lot going for it there, but the areas before your jedi training were a slog (my usual setup for playing KOTOR is to immediately get a 'skip taris' mod). Also the typical tropes of how Bioware games operated were starting to get a little long in the tooth at this point, and it felt like Bioware kept going back to the well trying to recapture the lightning in a bottle that was BG2's blend of dialog, character, combat, and story.
ME: 8/10. So much I could say about ME, but I'll say it had the most to prove, and it was the point at which I realized that Bioware had firmly set its foot into the "RPG Hybrid" space. It was brilliantly executed, but some of the RPG elements felt like they missed the mark compared to the shooter gameplay it was trying to emulate. Amusingly, this is the game that felt closest to the current hotness of open world games, Destiny and The Division.
ME2: 10/10. Next to BG2, this is the closest BW has ever come to a perfect storm. I loved the "dirty dozen" style of storytelling over the usual space opera space jesus adventure by digging into the individual characters, and the improvements to combat were great. This felt like the most linear of the ME games, but it also felt like the ME game that capitalized the most on what a linear game allows you to do.
ME3: 7/10. I honestly think ME3 is a game that plays better than ME1, or to an extent better than ME2, but ME3 had the biggest shoes to fill and failed spectacularly to fill them. I beat the game before the extended cut, so I had the most "wtf" moment with it, but the missions in ME3 felt a lot more hit and miss than the ones in ME1 and ME2, with some big time payoffs, and some missions that really fell short. To put it another way, ME3 had the highest highs and the lowest lows.
MEA: 7/10. MEA is one of those games that's intensely divisive on GAF, but I had a blast with it. I'm hoping for more improvements to the multiplayer, and there are some side quests I want to go back to SP for, but all in all this felt like a competent but not fantastic entry in the series made by the b-team where there was a ton of potential and only some of it was used.
DAO: 6/10. Never have I seen a Bioware game that feels like it's trying so hard to be something unique by being so derivative. By now the world of Dragon Age has found an identity, but with DAO the only thing I could think of was that Bioware was trying to recapture the magic of BG2 *again*, only this time before they hit the drawing board they made everyone read Game of Thrones. It just felt like a cheap cobbling together of fantasy tropes and dark gritty medieval realism, and the result was something I enjoyed, but felt like I had already played a better version of already.
DAI: 6/10. The only game on this list that I never beat, but played enough of to form an opinion of (I played some Jade Empire, but only for like 15 minutes, so I don't think it's fair to grade it). If DAO was a studio head trying to recapture the magic of BG2, DAI felt like someone solo questing in wow who said "you know what would be great? if we could put the 'bioware spin' on this!" This is arguably the worst example of how to incorporate MMO-lite gameplay into your title, and I was bored before I got out of the hinterlands. Oh, and before anyone comments on that bit; yes I did leave the hinterlands, and I got through several other zones, but I still never really stayed as entertained as I was in the intro where things were more controlled and linear.
I hope against hope that BW learns that their strengths are not in designing open world games and they keep to linear levels with strong dialog like ME2 or a decent number of moderately sized explorable zones like in BG2. I feel like since the doctors left, though, the direction the studio has taken has been towards making each successive game bigger, without concentrating on the moment to moment quality of the game. Nobody cares if Eos is bigger than every zone in DAI put together if there's only a handful of areas on Eos worth going to. My favorite part of that whole world was the Kett stronghold which was a linear romp through waves of badguys. Well, here's hoping.
silver moose
Member
They were, at one time, one of my favorite devs.
Games like Baldur's Gate 2, ME Trilogy (even with that ending) and Dragon Age: Origins/Awakening are still among my favorites, played each multiple times.
That said I felt like inquisition, while decent, lacked the character that made Origins so good.
Not everything needs to be open world to be successful, in fact Inquisition ended up feeling more like a chore by the time I was done with it. Promptly uninstalled it afterwards.
I have the same complaints, and more, about Andromeda.
Poor animation, shit dialogue, characters I just can't care about and MMO fetch quest bullshit all over the place. I finished it then promptly uninstalled it, same as Inquisition.
Ratings of the games that I've mentioned:
BG2 - 9/10
ME - 8/10
ME2 - 9/10
ME3 - 7/10
DA:O - 9/10
DA:I - 6.5/10
MEA - 6/10
I just don't see myself jumping in on the next game. I pre-ordered both Inquisition and Andromeda, expecting a return to form after DA2 and the ME3 fiasco.
Sadly I was pretty clearly mistaken.
Unfortunately for them, and similarly Square Enix, devs like CDPR and Atlus exist and are putting out games that stand out as some of the best RPGs ever made.
Games like Baldur's Gate 2, ME Trilogy (even with that ending) and Dragon Age: Origins/Awakening are still among my favorites, played each multiple times.
That said I felt like inquisition, while decent, lacked the character that made Origins so good.
Not everything needs to be open world to be successful, in fact Inquisition ended up feeling more like a chore by the time I was done with it. Promptly uninstalled it afterwards.
I have the same complaints, and more, about Andromeda.
Poor animation, shit dialogue, characters I just can't care about and MMO fetch quest bullshit all over the place. I finished it then promptly uninstalled it, same as Inquisition.
Ratings of the games that I've mentioned:
BG2 - 9/10
ME - 8/10
ME2 - 9/10
ME3 - 7/10
DA:O - 9/10
DA:I - 6.5/10
MEA - 6/10
I just don't see myself jumping in on the next game. I pre-ordered both Inquisition and Andromeda, expecting a return to form after DA2 and the ME3 fiasco.
Sadly I was pretty clearly mistaken.
Unfortunately for them, and similarly Square Enix, devs like CDPR and Atlus exist and are putting out games that stand out as some of the best RPGs ever made.
Dlink16
Member
Exactly.
Bioware has made a horrible decision going to open word game design. Their writing, gameplay design and company ethos just do not work with open world games. They need to go back to their alternate path linear games. They are cheaper and faster to create and work soooo much better with how they write.
Their problem isn't really EA. Their games have never really sold that well post KOTOR, but they scope and budget for more sales then they can get. After a few underwhelming games EA is making them design with ways to get more revenue. They should scale back to smaller more story focused titles. Like KOTOR and the first two ME games.
KoTOR : 9/10
DA O : 10/10
DA 2 : 8/10
DA I : 5/10
ME 1 : 9/10
ME 2: 10/10
ME 3: 8/10
SWTOR : Hard to rate, I loved the storylines I finished but the game is still a slog to play.
Their problem isn't really EA. Their games have never really sold that well post KOTOR, but they scope and budget for more sales then they can get. After a few underwhelming games EA is making them design with ways to get more revenue. They should scale back to smaller more story focused titles. Like KOTOR and the first two ME games.
KoTOR : 9/10
DA O : 10/10
DA 2 : 8/10
DA I : 5/10
ME 1 : 9/10
ME 2: 10/10
ME 3: 8/10
SWTOR : Hard to rate, I loved the storylines I finished but the game is still a slog to play.
Craymen Edge
Member
The founders left a while ago, are any of the writers, designers, producers of those great games still there?
EventHorizon
Member
I'm not anti-open world in the slightest. I like Far Cry games, and Horizon: Zero Dawn is my favorite game of the generation. BioWare's games were great because of the combination of story + gameplay, with story doing the heavy lifting. The problem is they are switching their focus away from story and towards gameplay, but their gameplay isn't good enough to make up for what they lose from less story.
BioWare's earlier games tactical focus reinforced their RPG narrative. Decisions in conversations were paired with tactical decisions in combat. The combat was able to tell a story too. Party positioning and ability use mattered. Now with more action focused games, that synergy between narrative and gameplay is broken. An action focused RPG can work very well (see Horizon: Zero Dawn), but that puts demands on gameplay that BioWare is incapable of fulfilling.
Gunslinger
Member
I completely forgot Jade empire in OP but I did beat it once back in the day. I also thought it was a fantastic game. I guess sales weren't good therefore BW never made a sequel.
Darkspiret
Neo Member
Pretty much everything after ME2 has been getting sketchier and sketchier. Thats also the last game of theirs i really really enjoyed (and even then you could start to see a certain direction they were heading).
Kadayi
Banned
I feel that Bioware's problem is they need a clear and coherent vision of what they want to deliver from an experiential perspective, and then ensure they work towards that.
Both DA:I and ME:A aren't bad games (though full disclosure I burnt out of the former 3/4ths in), but they're both kind of flabby experiences with too many fetch quests in lieu of quality content. I'm not against open world, but it's no good making a SP MMO experience and expecting people to find it compelling based on quantity over quality.
Areas need to be one act and done for the most part, with any revisit being as a result of a major point, versus the odd quest here or there.
Both DA:I and ME:A aren't bad games (though full disclosure I burnt out of the former 3/4ths in), but they're both kind of flabby experiences with too many fetch quests in lieu of quality content. I'm not against open world, but it's no good making a SP MMO experience and expecting people to find it compelling based on quantity over quality.
Areas need to be one act and done for the most part, with any revisit being as a result of a major point, versus the odd quest here or there.
Everything since ME2 has been a super let down for me. Everything.
ME3 was a good game with /a lot/ of problems. The ending did so much damage to my desire to replay the franchise, despite the fact I'd played the previous games quite a few times each and was always looking forward to a trilogy run through.
DA:I and ME:A are games that lack the soul Bioware used to have. ME2 was the last one that felt really focused, with truly great characters. I have very little excitement for their future output at this point.
Hell, they even ruined ME3 MP which was pretty much a lock for the GOTY co-op contender in ME:A before they needlessly updated and "improved" it...
ME3 was a good game with /a lot/ of problems. The ending did so much damage to my desire to replay the franchise, despite the fact I'd played the previous games quite a few times each and was always looking forward to a trilogy run through.
DA:I and ME:A are games that lack the soul Bioware used to have. ME2 was the last one that felt really focused, with truly great characters. I have very little excitement for their future output at this point.
Hell, they even ruined ME3 MP which was pretty much a lock for the GOTY co-op contender in ME:A before they needlessly updated and "improved" it...
BuckRobotron
Member
Will always enjoy revisiting some of their older titles. KOTOR, ME1 and ME2, DA:O, even Jade Empire. KOTOR and ME2 are in my top 10 games and in partial replay right now. But otherwise, I've moved on.
Oracle Dragon
Member
I still enjoy their content; I'm playing through DA:2 right now for the first time and quite liking it. Sure it has flaws, but it isn't really a terrible game. Although the Revenge of Shit Mountain OT was the best!
I also recently replayed ME:2 (after watching some let's plays of ME:A, it put me in a ME mood) and I still think it is great. I did note that one of the things DA:2 is criticized for is waves of enemies... while ME:2 (which is much more loved than DA:2) does pretty much the same thing.
One thing I don't terribly enjoy in Bioware games are their romance plots... I find they are not really that good. These days I basically just tell the NPC's to shove off and go romance free on playthroughs.
That being said, the Bioware of old is long gone, you won't be seeing games like Baldur's Gate anymore.. that all ended with KOTOR, and those style of games are "Bioware Games" going forward. Even DA:O which was supposed to be a "return to form" I felt had more in common with the KOTOR style games than with BG. If you want those kind of games pick up something like Pillars of Eternity or DD:Original Sin.
Anyways, still like their work, and I'm confident by the time I get around to buying and playing ME:A, I will have fun with it as well.
I also recently replayed ME:2 (after watching some let's plays of ME:A, it put me in a ME mood) and I still think it is great. I did note that one of the things DA:2 is criticized for is waves of enemies... while ME:2 (which is much more loved than DA:2) does pretty much the same thing.
One thing I don't terribly enjoy in Bioware games are their romance plots... I find they are not really that good. These days I basically just tell the NPC's to shove off and go romance free on playthroughs.
That being said, the Bioware of old is long gone, you won't be seeing games like Baldur's Gate anymore.. that all ended with KOTOR, and those style of games are "Bioware Games" going forward. Even DA:O which was supposed to be a "return to form" I felt had more in common with the KOTOR style games than with BG. If you want those kind of games pick up something like Pillars of Eternity or DD:Original Sin.
Anyways, still like their work, and I'm confident by the time I get around to buying and playing ME:A, I will have fun with it as well.
Marketing focus now instead of creating great stories, true options and choices. Sure they can create great set pieces but they can't for their life get those set pieces come together in an actual game at this point.
They pretty much started to chase that CoD dragon everyone wanted a slice of.
They pretty much started to chase that CoD dragon everyone wanted a slice of.
poodaddy
Member
Yeah it's a shame, but as others have said it's not really the company we loved. The talent responsible for the games that garnered our adoration have long since absconded and as such they are Bioware in name only to me.
I can try.
I don't find either KOTOR to have particularly interesting or challenging gameplay. The first KOTOR is just insulting in it's presentation of morality. It's so jarring me to I have a really hard time being invested in the story at all.
I'm suprised my feelings on ME2 are so hard to understand. I recall around release many people felt the game just gutted all the truly special parts of ME to have a more streamlined experience. Instead of fixing the gear system, expanding on the exploration and branching story paths they just cut them out.
JE score is probably unfair. But I don't honestly remember a thing about it.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
The last game of theirs I loved was Dragon Age Origins. I've liked most of their releases since to varying degrees. Andromeda is really bad though, it might be the first game of theirs that I don't play to competion, and I've been playing their games since Baldur's Gate. I hope they recover but the writing seems like it might be on the well for them, and their new property being described as being like Destiny doesn't inspire much hope. But I still have the Bioware classics and BG2 remains one of the best games ever.