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[goodcow]

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/n...,2157220,print.story?coll=ny-nynews-headlines

Man commits suicide at Ground Zero
BY ROCCO PARASCANDOLA, DEBORAH MORRIS AND SEAN GARDINER
Staff Writers

November 6, 2004, 7:11 PM EST

Distraught over the re-election of President George W. Bush, a Georgia man traveled to New York City, went to Ground Zero and killed himself with a shotgun blast, police said yesterday.

The suicide victim, Andrew Veal, 25, was discovered just before 8 a.m. yesterday when a worker for the Millennium Hotel looking at Ground Zero from an upper floor saw a man lying atop the concrete structure through which the 1 and 9 subway lines run.

The worker, thinking the man was sleeping, alerted colleagues and the Port Authority police were notified.

But when they got to Veal's body, they realized he had killed himself with a shot to the head from a .12-gauge shotgun.

No suicide note was found, but according to a Port Authority police source, family members said Veal, a registered Democrat, was despondent over Bush's defeat of Sen. John Kerry. A second source said Veal, who lived in Athens, Ga., and worked for the University of Georgia, was also adamantly opposed to the war in Iraq.

More than three years after the Sept. 11 terror attacks, Ground Zero remains a top tourist attraction, the site rife with symbolism.

Visitors there yesterday reacted in different ways to news of Veal's suicide. Bobbie Jensen, 54, a Republican from Phoenix, said that while she understood how Bush's victory disturbed those who dislike him, Ground Zero is not the place to act on those emotions.

"You can be upset about the war, about Bush, but this is a sacred place," she said. "You got to accept what happened and not kill yourself." But Frank Franca, an East Village artist and registered Democrat, suggested the suicide was symbolic.

"I'm very moved by it," he said. "Obviously, this person was devastated. I can see why he would come here."

Franca's friend, Jeffim Kuznetsov, a 25-year-old student from Russia who lives in Atlanta, said the suicide is evidence of how deeply many Americans were affected by Kerry's defeat.

"It's a national tragedy," he said. "This election is devastating to all who believe in democracy."

Another visitor to Ground Zero, Arushi Raval, 34, a businesswoman who lives in Chelsea, said Veal might have been active in campaigning for Kerry, only to taste defeat.

"Maybe he felt ineffective," she said of the victim. "You feel ineffective if you tried and it all failed.

"I know so many New Yorkers who are depressed over this."

Copyright © 2004, Newsday, Inc.

 

[Shinobi]

As messed up as that is, I find it more messed up that "Ground Zero" is a freaking tourist attraction.

 

[luxsol]

As messed up as that is, I find it more messed up that "Ground Zero" is a freaking tourist attraction.

What did you expect it to be? Just another building with no significance that was torn down and is currently being paved over?

And it's not like people are going there just to say "oooo! big hole in the ground! I bet it would have been awesome to have been here that day!" Some people go there to pay respect to those that died there.

 

[StoOgE]

What did you expect it to be? Just another building with no significance that was torn down and is currently being paved over?

And it's not like people are going there just to say "oooo! big hole in the ground! I bet it would have been awesome to have been here that day!" Some people go there to pay respect to those that died there.

while thousands of people line up to sell "We will never forget" bumper stickers, T-shirts and whatever the fuck else they can make money on.

 

[luxsol]

heh, the curse of being a tourist attraction.

 

[Zaptruder]

For the one guy that actually did it... thousands and thousands thought about doing it.

 

[pestul]

Hardcore..

Thankfully, I can hold out for the cataclysmic event that will wipe humanity from the face of the earth.

 

[Kon Tiki]

Luckily he was not completely insane and did not take thousands with him .... cuzz I heard the EMTs steal money from dead people's wallets.

 

[Willco]

... Some of you are retarded.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

thats sad either way....takes a really courageous person to end their life (im serious also, to take that kinda leap into the "unknown"...sheesh)

 

[pestul]

It's more horrible for the people he leaves behind than anything else. I can't have much respect for him in that regard, but I know where the emotion is coming from.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

yeah I know that its really more about who he left behind


but just think of it...to end your life...depending on your beliefs you might be going straight to hell.... the more I think about it the more I think there was more just involved than the election that drove him to this, hell start a fund to move to new zeland if your that distraught dont blow your head off.

 

[Vgamer]

Its a shame he killed himself over this. Things change fast in two years the Democrats could easily have control in Congress. There is no reason to kill yourself over this.

Also I found this line strange in the article:

"It's a national tragedy," he said. "This election is devastating to all who believe in democracy."

Considering Bush clearly won the election in both popular vote and Electoral votes how is it devastating for Democracy? Just becuase his guy didnt win?? So what if Bush had won the popular vote by 4 million votes (WAY more then Gore won the Popular vote last time) but lost the Electoral votes. Would this guy have said it was devastating for democracy? I doubt it.

 

[iapetus]

Considering Bush clearly won the election in both popular vote and Electoral votes how is it devastating for Democracy?

Perhaps he thought that wasn't the case...

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

well as much as I dont want bush in office, I just hope the next 4 years go smoother than the last 4... still nothing to kill yourself over...I think he had some more emtional baggage than just this.

 

[Vgamer]

Perhaps he thought that wasn't the case...

Blah all that conspiracy theory stuff is ridiculous. If there was any truth to it the Mainstream media would be reporting it.

 

[Manabanana]

yeah I know that its really more about who he left behind


but just think of it...to end your life...depending on your beliefs you might be going straight to hell.... the more I think about it the more I think there was more just involved than the election that drove him to this, hell start a fund to move to new zeland if your that distraught dont blow your head off.

 

[ge-man]

Its a shame he killed himself over this. Things change fast in two years the Democrats could easily have control in Congress. There is no reason to kill yourself over this.

Also I found this line strange in the article:

"It's a national tragedy," he said. "This election is devastating to all who believe in democracy."

Considering Bush clearly won the election in both popular vote and Electoral votes how is it devastating for Democracy? Just becuase his guy didnt win?? So what if Bush had won the popular vote by 4 million votes but lost the Electoral votes. Would this guy have said it was devastating for democracy? I doubt it.

Part of the problem is that people are having a hard time seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. IMO, I think are some significant things that beneath the surface of the election. There is much more going on than people's favorite team getting control. What about the way that the gay marriage ban passed so easily, or what about the fact that the war in Iraq became a minor issue in the election.

I'm not saying the guy did the right thing, but I don't think people are upset about Bush being re-elected per se. His re-election seems like a minor thing within a big picture of huge cultural/social change within the country.

 

[Vgamer]

good point I can see being distraught but he gave up his entire life over waiting maybe 2 years for a chance for another change in congress or at the max 4 years where there is guarenteed to be a new president. That seems like nothing in comparison to missing out on 40-50 years more of life that he just threw away. sad he felt it was worth giving up something you cant have back, Life, for something that changes every 4 years.

 

[ge-man]

good point I can see being distraught but he gave up his entire life over waiting maybe 2 years for a chance for another change in congress or at the max 4 years where there is guarenteed to be a new president. That seems like nothing in comparison to missing out on 40-50 years more of life that he just threw away. sad he felt it was worth giving up something you cant have back Life for something that changes every 4 years.

Well I ultimately agree with you. I don't care if this was even meant as a protest--it does nothing for the situation. If people are so distraught or angry, channel that energy into a renewed fight for the goverment. I think many people are avoidng the issue of Democrats and other oppostition parties being ineffective. People need to come to grips with that knowledge and do what they can to help their parties change. If the leadership isn't going to do a fucking thing, the people need to take matters into their own hands then. Killing yourself or going to Canada only helps those in power take even more control.

 

[Zaptruder]

The people that do these things... I doubt they have the same POV on life you do.

It's easy to rationalize one way when not sinking into the depths of depression...

but when you are... when you stop believing any of it matters; that the end is the same for all (i.e. nothingness), suicide becomes a pretty tempting choice.

Even without making the rationalization that death is the same for all... depression can hugely alter the way you percieve things.

 

[Triumph]

Blah all that conspiracy theory stuff is ridiculous. If there was any truth to it the Mainstream media would be reporting it.

:lol

Yeah. The mainstream media has done SUCH a great job of looking into things that have happened while Bush has been in office.

 

[pestul]

There is one thing everyone should realize. Our parents (and their parents) went through similar political change and strife. I'm sure there were times when they thought the country was going down the shithole too. Heck, they even had violent protests..

From the other side of the spectrum, one could see this as (and in horribly bad taste)..

"1 down.. 55,949,406 to go!"

 

[sc0la]

That drive must have been surreal. =/

.

 

[dark10x]

I think he is a fool, but I feel sorry for his family and friends. It was a selfish thing to do and his "cause" seems incredibly trivial to me.

 

[videogamer]

Blah all that conspiracy theory stuff is ridiculous. If there was any truth to it the Mainstream media would be reporting it.

Try watching "Control Room". That documentary is pretty soft on the mainstream media, but it can still show you how the media isn't doing its work.

 

[Malakhov]

As messed up as that is, I find it more messed up that "Ground Zero" is a freaking tourist attraction.

Heh, I'm going on a trip to New York in 2 weeks and it's in the program in the attractions to visit.

 

[cvxfreak]

Poor guy.

 

[Malakhov]

Poor guy.

There's hundred of innocent people dying everyday, some by horrible crimes being commited and they didn't want to die unlike this guy. Poor them.

 

[Seth C]

But the Republicans are the crazy ones we need to watch out for? Okay....

 

[Mercury Fred]

But the Republicans are the crazy ones we need to watch out for? Okay....

+1 Gross generalizations.

Anyway, by that logic, at least he hurt himself and not someone else:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/31/fashion/31COUP.html?hp

Last week an 18-year-old Marine recruit in West Palm Beach, Fla., was arrested for threatening to stab his girlfriend, partly, the authorities said, because she planned to vote for Senator John Kerry.

"You'll never live to see the election!" he reportedly told her before sheriff's deputies subdued him with a Taser gun.

 

[cvxfreak]

There's hundred of innocent people dying everyday, some by horrible crimes being commited and they didn't want to die unlike this guy. Poor them.

Well yeah, poor them too of course.

I don't mean to be an asshole or anything, but someone suggested to me that the man might as well have brought President Bush down with him. Interesting thought. There has to be at least ONE other person in this country ready to do such a thing. Scary. :O

 

[StrikerObi]

As messed up as that is, I find it more messed up that "Ground Zero" is a freaking tourist attraction.

Why? People go to the Hiroshima site, it's a memorial now. That's what people do to these sites of destruction, we take them and turn them into memorials to remember all those lost in the tradegy.

 

[Xenon]

What a fucking moron. This guy personifies the childish stupidity that seems to be so prevalent after the election.

 

[Zaptruder]

What a fucking moron. This guy personifies the childish stupidity that seems to be so prevalent after the election.

Why was he a moron? Why childish stupidity did he personify? and why was it childish and stupid?

I'm not saying what he did was right (far from it). But to use this guy's death as a basis for more baseless attacks against people that don't agree with you. That's pretty despicable.

 

[demon]

If there was any truth to it the Mainstream media would be reporting it.

.....BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

[Ninja Scooter]

... Some of you are retarded.

not as retarded as a guy who blows his own head off over an election.

 

[Dilbert]

What a fucking moron. This guy personifies the childish stupidity that seems to be so prevalent after the election.

You got it half right.

Anyone who commits suicide and gives a "reason" is rationalizing, since by definition, suicide is not a rational act. Clearly, this was a distressed man, or he wouldn't have killed himself. It's always sad -- and stupid -- that someone would get to that point.

The fact that his apparent "reason" had to do with the election is regrettable. If anyone actually bothered to read the article, the man didn't leave a note. Any speculation about his intentions is just that: speculation. Insinuating that he somehow is a symbol for lots of people who have valid reasons to be upset about the election is fucking asinine -- I'm looking at you, Xenon.

I'm locking this since I don't think this thread is going to go good places. Sorry if I'm raining on anyone's parade...but feel free to go read John Donne in the time you wouldn't have spent responding to this.