People should be free to feel whatever they want. Now, about forming opinions or dictating how the public discourse should be according to the utterly subjective and narcisistic metric "I feel this way", well...
"django unchained" deeply offended lee daniels: "tarantino has no right to our word."
- Thread starter bud
- Start date
- Status
People should be free to feel whatever they want. Now, about forming opinions or dictating how the public discourse should be according to the utterly subjective and narcisistic metric "I feel this way", well...
faceless007
Member
I'd guess that a lot of people who are in favor of affirmative action would also be in favor of those things, at least in the abstract. But those solutions would be far stronger and wide-ranging exercises of government power and usurpations of certain individual and parental freedoms than e.g. affirmative action is, and that's already plenty controversial in the U.S. It's not likely that the political will exists to federally implement those programs in a workable and effective way.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
I don't see how removing the word from a movie set in the past, and making olden days seem artificially tolerant somehow improves things re: how the word is perceived now.
what are you even talking about
B For Bendetta
Member
Tell that to Mark Twain
triplestation
Member
awwwwwwwwwww poor lee and his sensitive feeeeeeeliiiiiiinnnnnnnngggggsssss
People do complain about it in Twain's work. Specifically Huck Finn. Nevermind that Jim is often the voice of reason and Huck's father figure throughout the book.
empty vessel
Member
I think I can sympathize with the view of Daniels and Lee. I think the root of the frustration may not be so much with the language Tarantino uses as it is the presumptuousness that he is the person to tell this kind of story. Even though Django is about the revenge of a slave, it's a pretty cheap film about slavery, substantively speaking.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
the very definition of double-standard.
B For Bendetta
Member
Yes that's what I was referring to
To Far Away Times
Member
I think if black people stopped using the N Bomb it would go a long way towards making it's use unacceptable. Get rid of the double standard.
Angry Fork
Member
Sure it's been said already but he is ignoring context, by saying a white person is unable to say the word he's basically saying white people shouldn't be allowed to make slave movies, unless he thinks there should be a slave movie without the n word? or to have it bleeped?
This n word controversy is essentially suggesting white people should 'stay in their lane' and blacks should stay in theirs without crossing into each others history/culture/identity, or at least not too far (by using the n word, but what is the limit? And who decides this limit?). It is regressive to start barring certain kinds of people based on the past and not the intent of people in the here and now. Birth of a nation should not be judged to be the same as Django because they were both made by a white guy.
As for Spike, I love him as a filmmaker and think he's a good person who means well but I think he's very jaded/hurt by the hollywood system, which he likely has a right to be. Black directors/lead actors are still marginalized but I think Spike is failing to realize it is more about money now, his movies don't make back their investment. The actor thing is a separate issue.
I get the impression he's upset that Quentin is liked by black people and black people go to see his movies more than they do his own, but Quentin isn't someone like Tyler Perry so Spike can't rag on the quality of his work as Quentin is actually talented. Spike does what he feels is necessary but there is a link between not being financially viable/critically acclaimed and the amount of bridges he burns, it is the shitty side of hollywood.
That being said I don't like Quentin's usage of the word in Pulp fiction, it makes me cringe to hear it. And I'm not into buying the excuse that 'bad people' are using the word, therefore it's okay because Quentin is showing how bad people are ignorant and so on. I'm inclined to give him this argument for Inglourious Basterds (nazi's were racist) or Reservoir Dogs (italian/irish mafioso racists), but not for Pulp Fiction.
It seems like for some reason Quentin just likes to use it without purpose. He isn't racist but it's still somewhat annoying, maybe he just feels like it makes his work more authentic if he's willing to go that far, like it's some protest against society saying he shouldn't use that word. I don't know.
This is one thing I'll give to Spike, I completely understand why he would be offended by a slavery movie being a 'fun' action adventure, and that being done by a white guy.
This n word controversy is essentially suggesting white people should 'stay in their lane' and blacks should stay in theirs without crossing into each others history/culture/identity, or at least not too far (by using the n word, but what is the limit? And who decides this limit?). It is regressive to start barring certain kinds of people based on the past and not the intent of people in the here and now. Birth of a nation should not be judged to be the same as Django because they were both made by a white guy.
As for Spike, I love him as a filmmaker and think he's a good person who means well but I think he's very jaded/hurt by the hollywood system, which he likely has a right to be. Black directors/lead actors are still marginalized but I think Spike is failing to realize it is more about money now, his movies don't make back their investment. The actor thing is a separate issue.
I get the impression he's upset that Quentin is liked by black people and black people go to see his movies more than they do his own, but Quentin isn't someone like Tyler Perry so Spike can't rag on the quality of his work as Quentin is actually talented. Spike does what he feels is necessary but there is a link between not being financially viable/critically acclaimed and the amount of bridges he burns, it is the shitty side of hollywood.
That being said I don't like Quentin's usage of the word in Pulp fiction, it makes me cringe to hear it. And I'm not into buying the excuse that 'bad people' are using the word, therefore it's okay because Quentin is showing how bad people are ignorant and so on. I'm inclined to give him this argument for Inglourious Basterds (nazi's were racist) or Reservoir Dogs (italian/irish mafioso racists), but not for Pulp Fiction.
It seems like for some reason Quentin just likes to use it without purpose. He isn't racist but it's still somewhat annoying, maybe he just feels like it makes his work more authentic if he's willing to go that far, like it's some protest against society saying he shouldn't use that word. I don't know.
This is one thing I'll give to Spike, I completely understand why he would be offended by a slavery movie being a 'fun' action adventure, and that being done by a white guy.
Secret Fawful
Member
/thread
Pack it up, folks. (Don't really pack it up. That's just a great point)
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
You know... I can really empathize with how that movie would conjure up negative feelings for a variety of reasons. The use of the word at all, the use of the word in such a rah-rah action flick, the fact that a white man's using it, perhaps even the jealousy angle....
...but at the end of the day, it's a fun and great film, and I think it helps non-Civil Rights scholars think about slavery when they never would have before. I understand how it's offensive, but should it never have been made? Not a chance. Our culture is better off for it.
...but at the end of the day, it's a fun and great film, and I think it helps non-Civil Rights scholars think about slavery when they never would have before. I understand how it's offensive, but should it never have been made? Not a chance. Our culture is better off for it.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
It's Tarantino's right as a director to tell the story that he wants in the way that he wants to. Regardless of who gets offended by it. Daniels should have been more offended at the prospect of him sugar coating the ugliness of slavery to make the film more PC and marketable.
As an aside, I really dislike how all the conversation is getting focused on the least interesting aspects of Django. It's one of the handful of trigger words that people will just fixate on to the exclusion of everything else. There was some good social commentary packed in under the blaxploitation film style exterior.
As an aside, I really dislike how all the conversation is getting focused on the least interesting aspects of Django. It's one of the handful of trigger words that people will just fixate on to the exclusion of everything else. There was some good social commentary packed in under the blaxploitation film style exterior.
But he is the person to tell this story because it is his story. Sure it's rooted in a particular period of history but everything comes entirely from his pen. It's not a historical film, it's a piece of entertaining fiction. I really don't think Lee Daniels or Spike Lee have an argument here at all, you can guess as to why they're so offended but I find it hard to agree with anything they've said on the matter. Their argument seems to be that they're black and Quentin isn't.
Quentin is coming from a vast knowledge and experience of blaxploitation films and music, there's nothing malicious or disrespectful in his use of the word (sure there's malicious and disrespectful characters but what happened to them?). Spike and Lee Daniels would probably argue that blaxploitation films are only for a black audience, that was the target audience, yet no-one loves them more than Quentin. Are white people not allowed to write these black characters? Is Quentin not allowed to write and act out the character of Jimmy because he uses the word? To say that is effectively saying white people shouldn't say it in film, but that's no reflection of our lives, culture and experience because we all probably know a white person who's used the word.
If you want to find disrespectful use of the word you really don't need to look far. I think it's probably time to leave the Tarantino argument alone because it's clear he's not doing that, he's making entertaining pieces of fiction, nothing more. Everyone who uses the word in Django are either completely morally deprived or black themselves (which is apparently okay anyway according to Lee and Spike). King uses it reluctantly as a means to Django's ends, you can see this horribly racist world hurts him because he's a good person.
Also is it not worse to make a film in the Antebellum South and completely ignore racism like Hollywood has done for most of its existence?
You sir, are an asshole. I love pie.
And this whole "our word" crap sounds like something you would hear from a child. A word only gets power by how you react to it. And if a word has THAT much power over you, it's time to chill the fuck out.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
I dont why white people would want to say the word anyways.
RyougaSaotome
Member
This just seems so very odd to me. I went to go see Django with my dad (a fairly radical black man), and while we both felt uncomfortable throughout the film, we also agreed that if they had cut the N word out period, it would have pulled us completely out of the experience.
Granted, he's also a man that feels it's not a good word under any circumstances, regardless of who's using it. He's always been against the idea that just because he's black, he can use the word however he wants.
Granted, he's also a man that feels it's not a good word under any circumstances, regardless of who's using it. He's always been against the idea that just because he's black, he can use the word however he wants.
akachan ningen
Member
QT is just some dorky white dude who wishes he was black. Why don't they just let him be?
Synth_floyd
Banned
I can see why they're upset. Tarantino is a hipster wigger who loves to use the word without really having experienced the context of it, either directly or through his ancestors. But then again it's just a movie.
I'm white and the word isn't something I use - I'd rather not massively offend somebody by using it but I look forward to the day that we don't have to worry about whether it still offends people because I think that will mean true progress - plus I like the way Denzel uses it in training day - sort of like Hank Moody's "motherfucka"
Regarding the topic, I don't see how a movie set in that time period with that topic could not use the word....so this guys argument makes no sense.
Regarding the topic, I don't see how a movie set in that time period with that topic could not use the word....so this guys argument makes no sense.
Jeezum crow! This thread got out of hand fast. As a black person, I understand the viewpoint that Spike and co. are coming from. You have a word used throughout the history of this country used to denigrate black people and to this day, it's usage can still hurt and offend people. To which many of you would also say, "Well if it's a bad word, then why do black people use it to call each other that!? It's a double standard!" This word being used for so long has become ingrained in our culture to where the original word was changed into it's common usage you see today. It's the only slur that is also a term of endearment (depending on who you ask).
With all that being said, I don't see why anyone would get offended by the movie. It takes place in the most racially charged period of America and portrays it pretty well. Why get mad? I didn't see QT call anyone a "nigger" during his 10 minute cameo, did you all?
With all that being said, I don't see why anyone would get offended by the movie. It takes place in the most racially charged period of America and portrays it pretty well. Why get mad? I didn't see QT call anyone a "nigger" during his 10 minute cameo, did you all?
I would say there is a difference between "nigger" and "nigga".
There is. One is the original word "nigger" and the other is the bastardized version used as the term of endearment "nigga". Both versions are used interchangeably throughout Django.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
My movie memory is cloudy
Was it in Schindler's List where the Nazi's take like 10 Young Men and make them pull their pants down and if they were circumcised got shot in the head for such reason
Maybe it's another movie, but that shit remains vividly in my mind till today
Not for the crazy factor, but more so, that some people in real life must have gone through that ordeal and paid the ultimate price... their life
Same goes for Django in a sense
It was told in a time where the word "Nigger" was used all the time in the south
If the whole movie never once used the word it would be sill a good movie, but the person who wrote it, used it to instill why that word has that deep rooted meaning
Why that word today even used as an off remark, still has haunting symptoms
I rather a movie be authentic even if it is a fake dramatization of yesteryear
Was it in Schindler's List where the Nazi's take like 10 Young Men and make them pull their pants down and if they were circumcised got shot in the head for such reason
Maybe it's another movie, but that shit remains vividly in my mind till today
Not for the crazy factor, but more so, that some people in real life must have gone through that ordeal and paid the ultimate price... their life
Same goes for Django in a sense
It was told in a time where the word "Nigger" was used all the time in the south
If the whole movie never once used the word it would be sill a good movie, but the person who wrote it, used it to instill why that word has that deep rooted meaning
Why that word today even used as an off remark, still has haunting symptoms
I rather a movie be authentic even if it is a fake dramatization of yesteryear
maniac-kun
Member
Could be in the Pianist. A movie that i will never watch again ;_;
Extra Sauce
Member
You know, I was about to make the argument that Django Unchained is actually in agreement with Lee Daniels, in the sense that every time the word nigger is used by a white person in the movie, it is also done negatively.
However I can't. Because I just remembered that King Schultz uses the word "nigger" many times as a subterfuge to eventually rescue an african-american woman from slavery.
However I can't. Because I just remembered that King Schultz uses the word "nigger" many times as a subterfuge to eventually rescue an african-american woman from slavery.
I don't see anyone stopping them.
Rocket Scientist
Member
Recently saw it. One of the best movies I've ever seen.
You need to watch more movies hur hur hur.
bengraven
Member
Friend on a social network just watched MAN WITH THE IRON FISTS and said:
"What a shock! Tarrantino makes a movie with just ONE black man, tons of Asians, and still finds he needs to use the N-WORD every five minutes. Racist fuck".
All of our "Um, it was written by that one black man, who also directed it and is a rapper who says the n-word quite frequently" isn't helping calm her down.
"OHHHH, so he's PRESENTING it...that makes it ALLLL better".
Jesus Christ. lawlz.
"What a shock! Tarrantino makes a movie with just ONE black man, tons of Asians, and still finds he needs to use the N-WORD every five minutes. Racist fuck".
All of our "Um, it was written by that one black man, who also directed it and is a rapper who says the n-word quite frequently" isn't helping calm her down.
"OHHHH, so he's PRESENTING it...that makes it ALLLL better".
Jesus Christ. lawlz.
Jews use "Jew" is a derogatory manner all the time. If you mean kike though, then no.
I understand that people may be sensitive to it but c'mon. Tarantino's character doesn't say it in the film and how dumb would it be for nigger not to appear in a slavery movie? The movie isn't supposed to be some eye-awakening experience on the black struggle... it's an entertaining slave revenge movie. Lee Daniels and Spike Lee should team up and make a substantive slavery movie if they're that hurt. Don't get mad, get motivated.
Maybe? I actually don't know. But then again, it was a satire and Mel Brooks didn't have a history of randomly ham fisting racial epithets into his movies.
It's a combination of Tarantino's history regarding racial epithets/racial jokes being ham fisted into his previous screenplays, and the fact that the term is used as a punch line and not necessarily as the venemous and hateful term that it was/is half of the time. Nigger was common place within that particular era, no arguments there, but were they juxtaposing the word into existing terms to create slang at every turn? I doubt it. I personally think he was justified in using the word most of the time it was used, but he definitely got a bit carried away at times.
I'll refer to my fellow Jews as heebs or yids, but I would never refer to them as kikes. That's a bit much.
I really hate how nigga has somehow become seen as a way of "taking back" that word or its a term of endearment nonsense. One is born of hate and the other is used by the ignorant. Both words have no place in anyone's vernacular.
From the movie studio who objected but he dismissed them.
EDIT: I will edit my thought on the use to this point. Used as an insult (nigga). I am fine with it. Any other use is just wrong.
- Status