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[Shtof]

So I fell for the curiosity and got a 5070ti.
I've been using DLSS for many years and obviously we all know it is very good, DLSS4 is no different.
Since it upscales each frame before it's shown on the monitor, it doesn't really cause any noticeable delay.
It just renders a frame that is slightly worse looking than native but much faster, which improves FPS.

I kind of wanted to believe that MFG wasn't as bad as everyone was saying.
The green team had presentations with the framerate being quadrupled with MFG like it was magic.
It's interesting but also sad how they entirely has misunderstood why gamers want higher frame rate in the first place.
We want the game graphics to show as fast as possible what is happening in the underlying game world.
MFG in fact is counterproductive to this measure - it pretends to do the thing you want but doesn't!
I'm just baffled by how they built, marketed and shipped such an incredibly useless and unwanted feature.

 

[mèx]

Another thread in which:

• MFG is used incorrectly by believing the NVIDIA's PR non-sense.
• People don't understand the massive advantage of motion clarity.

 

[Shtof]

Another thread in which:

• MFG is used incorrectly by believing the NVIDIA's PR non-sense.
• People don't understand the massive advantage of motion clarity.

Yes, that was what I believed until I tried it myself.
But lowering graphics and using DLSS performance is another way to increase framerates substantially, which feels much better to play.

 

[Black_Stride]

We know how MFG works.
We know what its for.
You seemingly didnt which is why you are upset.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

So I fell for the curiosity and got a 5070ti.
I've been using DLSS for many years and obviously we all know it is very good, DLSS4 is no different.
Since it upscales each frame before it's shown on the monitor, it doesn't really cause any noticeable delay.
It just renders a frame that is slightly worse looking than native but much faster, which improves FPS.

I kind of wanted to believe that MFG wasn't as bad as everyone was saying.
The green team had presentations with the framerate being quadrupled with MFG like it was magic.
It's interesting but also sad how they entirely has misunderstood why gamers want higher frame rate in the first place.
We want the game graphics to show as fast as possible what is happening in the underlying game world.
MFG in fact is counterproductive to this measure - it pretends to do the thing you want but doesn't!
I'm just baffled by how they built, marketed and shipped such an incredibly useless and unwanted feature.

Make sure your base framerate before enabling MFG is high, high base framerate means low lag. Low base frame rate means high lag. MFG doesn't improve input lag only motion fidelity so you have to make sure your input lag is at an acceptable level before enabling MFG. Try enabling MFG once your 1% lows reach 80 or 90 fps if you're real picky.

 

[baphomet]

You clearly don't understand the use case for MFG.

It's not to turn 30fps into 120fps.

It's to turn 120fps to 480fps.

 

[CJ_75]

Yes, that was what I believed until I tried it myself.
But lowering graphics and using DLSS performance is another way to increase framerates substantially, which feels much better to play.

At least you have a choice. Personally, I prefer playing on the highest settings, and I use MFG if it pushes the frame rate to 120 FPS so I can enable Black Frame Insertion on my Sony Bravia 9.
DLSS Performance mode is fine, but MFG delivers a better image in my opinion. I like smooth frame rates and can't stand motion blur. DLSS combined with (M)FG gives me exactly the experience I'm looking for.

 

[SaturnSaturn]

The only reason to use MFG is when you have a high framerate, lets say 90 fps and want better motion clarity.

90fps mfg2x at 180fps looks way better in motion, thats how you use it, i envy the bastards with 360fps monitors that can run mfg4x at 90 fps.

Thats how you get rid of lcd blur smearing and pisspoor motion clarity. To try and use it to get a better "gameplay feel" is hopeless, its worth it only for motion clarity at a high baseline fps.

 

[Shtof]

We know how MFG works.
We know what its for.
You seemingly didnt which is why you are upset.

Not upset, happy with the card actually. Just want to warn others.

Make sure your base framerate before enabling MFG is high, high base framerate means low lag. Low base frame rate means high lag. MFG doesn't improve input lag only motion fidelity so you have to make sure your input lag is at an acceptable level before enabling MFG. Try enabling MFG once your 1% lows reach 80 or 90 fps if you're real picky.

Thanks for the suggestion. My impression is that 2x MFG is potentially liveable, but to double framerate lowering graphics and using DLSS perf is much better.
3x and 4x MFG just feels like being drunk.

 

[Holammer]

You clearly don't understand the use case for MFG.

It's not to turn 30fps into 120fps.

It's to turn 120fps to 480fps.

When the PS6 hits the market there will be enough 240hz TVs in the living room so I expect many games to run at 120x2FG or 80x3FG.

 

[TrebleShot]

yo it works amazing adding smoothness to already good fps

 

[Holammer]

The only reason to use MFG is when you have a high framerate, lets say 90 fps and want better motion clarity.

90fps mfg2x at 180fps looks way better in motion, thats how you use it, i envy the bastards with 360fps monitors that can run mfg4x at 90 fps.

Thats how you get rid of lcd blur smearing and pisspoor motion clarity. To try and use it to get a better "gameplay feel" is hopeless, its worth it only for motion clarity at a high baseline fps.

I'm playing Guardian of the Galaxy, game *can* deliver the frames, but I locked it to 120 and applied Nvidia Smooth Motion. Game looks amazing, frame pacing is immaculate and the computer is running cooler.

 

[Knightime_X]

My understanding is, if you try to get more frames than you can even use, it's not going to work as intended.
In fact, it'll preform even worse.
So like if you aim for 240fps (4x mfg) on a 60hz monitor, all kinds of latency fuckery will commence.
If you are getting 60fps and boost to 120fps (2x mfg) + vsync, on a 120hz monitor it in theory should look buttery smooth with next to no noticeable latency at all.

 

[Black_Stride]

Not upset, happy with the card actually. Just want to warn others.

Thanks for the suggestion. My impression is that 2x MFG is potentially liveable, but to double framerate lowering graphics and using DLSS perf is much better.
3x and 4x MFG just feels like being drunk.

Warn people of what?

We know how MFG works and what its for.
Its for motion clarity.
If your base frametimes are at a level which you are happy with, you can then active MFG to get better motion clarity from your game.

If you are CPU bound on a HFR panel, use MFG to get the most out of it.




Theres nothing to warn us about.

 

[darrylgorn]

You can improve latency by capping your framerate to 58 fps.

 

[Lorianus]

No one talks about the inherent cost of frame gen, it costs a not so marginal amount of vram (i have seen bench's from 500mb to upwards to 2gig extra vram consumption), but whats even more important is that frame gen costs you base frame rate anywhere from 15-30%.
Say you run PT cyberpunk 90fps native switching on framegenx2 will make it anywhere from 140-180 but your baseframerate has gone from 90fps to 70-75 and that can lead to problems when say your basefps hovers around the 70's and you activate frame gen->you will then generate frames with sub 60fps input lag.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I am actually one of the very few PC gamers out there that plays at 4k resolution so MFG was necessary in order to use path tracing in Cyberpunk.

But I don't think we will see any other game that demanding any time soon.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Yes, that was what I believed until I tried it myself.
But lowering graphics and using DLSS performance is another way to increase framerates substantially, which feels much better to play.

Yes but you won't reach really high framerates without MFG. Imagine you reach 140fps with DLSS performance and then turn MFG you could then actually take advantage of a 500fps monitor. Without FG we don't have the power to use such monitors. You can't rely on old shader hardware to keep bringing ig gains anymore, Moore's law is dead as is dennard scaling. Any gains we make now come hard earned and expensive so we need technologies like tensor cores to give us new ways to greatly scale performance.

 

[Xdrive05]

MFG is fucking awesome as long as your base FPS is fast enough (40-60 minimum depending on the genre and camera speed/control method). If you're happy gaming with a controller you can get away with even less base FPS, but still 40-ish is minimum I would say. Fast paced mouse controls need at least 60-70 base to not feel bad.

But yes, DLSS is the most consequential hardware technology to land in a very, very long time. It's the ONE thing that is somewhat offsetting this price/performance regression we've been suffering for a decade now.

 

[Kenpachii]

Absolutely love framegen best new tech around. Having 200-300 fps on a 360hz screen is amazing.

 

[Black_Stride]

Yes, that was what I believed until I tried it myself.
But lowering graphics and using DLSS performance is another way to increase framerates substantially, which feels much better to play.

Using Performance mode or lowering graphic settings wont make your CPU bound game look any smoother.
If you are CPU bound to 80fps then even at 720p youd be CPU bound to 80fps.
Turn on MFG and youll breeze past that bottleneck in motion clarity.

 

[GymWolf]

When it work and you have an already acceptable framerate, it's not bad at all.

Too bad half the times seems like having framegen on break something else at launch before getting patched.

 

[Wildebeest]

So I fell for the curiosity and got a 5070ti.
I've been using DLSS for many years and obviously we all know it is very good, DLSS4 is no different.
Since it upscales each frame before it's shown on the monitor, it doesn't really cause any noticeable delay.
It just renders a frame that is slightly worse looking than native but much faster, which improves FPS.

It never improves FPS and never reduces latency. All it does is make lower quality scenes with higher FPS appear less unappealing to you. It is the exact same thing as frame generation.

 

[Spukc]

Aye mfg always sucked in d2

 

[TheShocker]

I've been capping single player games at 120fps with 2x mfg. I already have a beefy system with a 4090, but by doing so I'm taking an already higher frame rate and maxing out 4k/Ultra settings and DLAA or DLSS Quality. It's amazing.

 

[Shane89]

both are bad for development quality

 

[Rivdoric]

FG is shit AF if REAL fps are below 60

 

[Black_Stride]

FG is shit AF if REAL fps are below 60

Pretty much, you need fairly low frametimes to really enjoy MFG and the game better also support Nvidia Reflex.

 

[Pop]

This what you do. Go buy you a 4K/120hz monitor and just play games with Dlss 4 quality. Performance mode is even great with 4K

In quality you're guaranteed to get at least 90 fps

 

[ReasonBeing]

I don't know, I started firing up lossless scaling while playing Nier Automata to get 120hz refresh rates and it is transformative. I wouldn't use it for a competitive twitch game, but my point is sweeping generalizations like "mfg bad" just doesn't make sense.

 

[Luipadre]

above 60 fps its great. I used 3x framegen in the new doom and it was smooth af 200+ fps

 

[Black_Stride]

This what you do. Go buy you a 4K/120hz monitor and just play games with Dlss 4 quality. Performance mode is even great with 4K

In quality you're guaranteed to get at least 90 fps

Transformer model is actually more expensive than the CNN model.

Even with DLSS4Q 4K is gonna be heavy.

My 4080 routinely drops below 60 at 4K DLSS4Q. (I use DLSSwapper to inject Transformer model)
I end up using DLSS Balanced and sometimes even Performance.

Yes im one of those nuts who sets everything to max then uses DLSS to get where i need to go......only if im still falling will i start messing with the settings.
So unless someone has a 4090 class card you aint hammer out 90fps in every game at 4K even with DLSS4Q.

P.S Yes DLSS Performance is great at 4K.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

havent used it yet but excited to see 480hz+

 

[Rivdoric]

Pretty much, you need fairly low frametimes to really enjoy MFG and the game better also support Nvidia Reflex.

Indeed.
This is why FG should only be used on 100+Hz screen.
FG (x2) = 120 Hz
MFG x3/4 = 240Hz & more.

I've seen some people using MFG X4 on a 120Hz screen and be satisfied.
.... Dipping $1000 on a GPU and not be able to see that you're playing at 30 fps... lmao

But this is also Nvidia's fault, truly.
One remember the "5070 = 4090" announcement. So they 100% want you to be non educated on that matter.

 

[xVodevil]

This what you do. Go buy you a 4K/120hz monitor and just play games with Dlss 4 quality. Performance mode is even great with 4K

In quality you're guaranteed to get at least 90 fps

Sounds good, but the problem is when you get these new UE5 games, it just won't get the same fps uplift as many other games on different game engine @4K performance, no matter what I do with changing settings to a balanced high medium or even full low, there is little uplift unless I start to drop the actual resolution which is what I do on my 4070Ti.

 

[Rivdoric]

Sounds good, but the problem is when you get these new UE5 games, it just won't get the same fps uplift as many other games on different game engine @4K performance, no matter what I do with changing settings to a balanced high medium or even full low, there is little uplift unless I start to drop the actual resolution which is what I do on my 4070Ti.

Yes i saw that with Mafia Old Country TPU benchmarks. Almost no difference.

 

[xVodevil]

Yes i saw that with Mafia Old Country TPU benchmarks. Almost no difference.

Yep, from what I've tested Mafia and Oblivion remaster both, these just starts hitting around that ~60fps with DLSS already on. Probably lumen or whatever is behind this, but these are very very heavy @4K.

 

[Black_Stride]

Indeed.
This is why FG should only be used on 100+Hz screen.
FG (x2) = 120 Hz
MFG x3/4 = 240Hz & more.

I've seen some people using MFG X4 on a 120Hz screen and be satisfied.
.... Dipping $1000 on a GPU and not be able to see that you're playing at 30 fps... lmao

But this is also Nvidia's fault, truly.
One remember the "5070 = 4090" announcement. So they 100% want you to be non educated on that matter.

Jeez MFGx4 on a 120Hz panel would be hell.




And yeah that announcement of 5070 = 4090 was cracked as shit.
I remember in the live thread I straight up called bullshit cuz Blackwell wasnt that much of a shrink(operative for not at all) and Nvidia have all but abandoned the days of xx70 = Range Topper.

As the presentation went on, he announced MFG and and i was like called it.

But I still appreciate FrameGen 2x on a 120Hz panel.
As long as my "real" frametimes are above 16.7 im okay with framegen getting me to 120fps, just for the motion clarity


Unfortunate for me that I couldnt keep both my monitor and my TV so I ended up keeping the 4K120 TV........im old, twitch shooters are beyond me anyway.
But at local LANs I always like to see just how smooth MFG actually makes the image.
The frame move by fast enough it nigh impossible to actually catch the "fake" frames.



I need to move to a bigger apartment so i can have both my TV and monitor.