Support NeoGAF

[Beth Cyra]

If anything, Resident Evil needed a reboot more than Devil May Cry.

I can agree with this.

What I find weird is that it's only a very certain section of Capcom who felt it needed rebooted. Monolith used DMC Dante, Niitsuma used DMC Dante, and even Superbot asked for OG Dante.

You would think that with so many people asking for him they would clue to the fact that people didn't want a new Dante.

 

[nbthedude]

Does that feel at all cynical when you step back and look at it? Honest question, not being critical.

Well I just hope the casual perusers of this thread know that when they call this game "fischer price" or simplistic trash or whatever that those same people would (apparently) say the same thing about all but two or three game series in the genre.

 

[Slamtastic]

God of War, Anarchy Reins, Lollipop Chainsaw, Batman Arkham Asylum and Arkham City, Madworld, No More Heroes

God of War - graphics, violence, set pieces, story
Anarchy Reins - multiplayer
Lollipop Chainsaw - unique style, character, quirkiness
Batman - open worldiness, metroid backtrack progression, it's goddamn batman
Madworld - unique visuals
No More Heroes - visual style, characters, overall quirk/uniqueness again

These gmes all have something that makes them appealing besides combat engine depth. Whereas that was all DMC had going for it, and DmC doesn't have much of anything.

What is DmC's hook that makes it a good game in spite of simplified combat?

 

[Risette]

Does that feel at all cynical when you step back and look at it? Honest question, not being critical.

Not really.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

But isnt. Unless games like God of War, Anarchy Reins, Lollipop Chainsaw, Batman Arkham Asylum and Arkham City, X-men Origins: Wolverine Never Dead, Madworld, No More Heroes, Heavenly Sword, Enslaved, Sword of the Berserk, and dozens of others are also "fisher price game." If they are, then I guess I am a considered a "fischer price" gamer now.

Most of those games listed are complete trash and or have god awful combat (the batman series for instance has really bad combat).

 

[Beth Cyra]

Well I just hope the casual perusers of this thread know that when they call this game "fischer price" or simplistic trash or whatever that those same people would (apparently) say the same thing about all but two or three game series in the genre.

When talking about a very specific type of game play? If anything people who think something like Wolverine or No More Hero's of action games should know they are getting into a much different type of game.

 

[Risette]

These gmes all have something that makes them appealing besides combat engine depth. Whereas that was all DMC had going for it, and DmC doesn't have much of anything.

Please go play DMC1.

 

[Chamber]

But it was one of the only lasting series out there that catered specifically to those who DID want that extremely high skill focused end game. I think that's where a lot of the disconnect between people who aren't hyped and those who are is... it's not that any game that doesn't push you to the 1% of player skill is instant garbage and not worth the time it's just that DMC was one of the last games (definitely the only long standing series) that focused on that aspect of the gameplay specifically.

What the fack am i gonna put into my PS3 to show up all my casual friends now? ... DMC4. that's what.

I think this whole thing has been explained a million times over. Most of us don't think this game is or will be objectively bad. I have it pre-ordered, took Tuesday off work to play it but I'm calling a spade a spade here. It doesn't have the "DMC DNA" Capcom likes to talk about and the more we learn about the game the more it feels like a pointless reboot.

 

[Emitan]

Is someone saying Enslaved has good combat or do I still live in a sane world?

Enslaved is one of the worst games I have ever played. Sonic 2006 has more merit.

 

[zoukka]

Please go play DMC1.

Yes, the series used to have redeeming qualities beyond the combat mechanics. Used to.

 

[Nemesis_]

I don't think Enslaved is one of the worst games I've ever played, but the combat is indeed pretty fucking terrible. I guess it's more of an "adventure" game than an "action adventure" though, given it's focus.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Is someone saying Enslaved has good combat or do I still live in a sane world?

Enslaved is one of the worst games I have ever played. Sonic 2006 has more merit.

There are people who have tried to say Heavenly Sword is a quality game with great combat. Enslaved having decent combat shouldn't shock anyone.

 

[Criminal Upper]

Yeah, if anyone in here is saying Enslaved had good combat, I'll gladly pay for your MRI scan.

 

[Slamtastic]

Please go play DMC1.

I'm not into the Gothic atmosphere and demon story that is the core of the franchise, I'm only in it for the gameplay.

Also flock off featherface isn't funny in any way even ironically and also LIIIIIIIIIIGHT. I don't see how DMC1 Dante was any less of a loser than any of the others except he talked less and thus got to show it less.

I stand by NMH and Lollipop Chainsaw being better settings, casts of characters, visuals styles. But the gameplay means that I always come back to DMC.

 

[Risette]

I'm not into the Gothic atmosphere and demon story that is the core of the franchise, I'm only in it for the gameplay.

I stand by NMH and Lollipop Chainsaw being better settings, casts of characters, visuals styles. But the gameplay means that I always come back to DMC.

But NMH is like a genuine 0/10 game. Probably worse than Enslaved.

 

[call_kotaku]

It's hard to make a new villain that fits the lore of the game. You can't make a demon more powerful than Mundus just by virtue of who Mundus is. Capcom probably regretted Vergil being dead hence DmC.



Open world DMC was definitely the way to go. Or the aforementioned Sparda game which I've always wanted. From a character standpoint, Sparda would be an interesting guy to follow.

How difficult would it have been to bring Vergil back? Just have him wake up in Hell and wanting to figuring out if he's the original or a copy created by Mundus. I think one of the only "answers" Kamiya ever gave to DMC lore on twitter (lol) was to say "Only Dante Knows" to whether or not Nelo Angelo was actually Vergil and not a clone.

 

[Akainu]

You guys are either blind, just jerking around or don't understand the whole concept of visual design of a character

Honestly, at this point I have no clue. Can you tell me what you are talking about.

 

[Beth Cyra]

But NMH is like a genuine 0/10 game. Probably worse than Enslaved.

Woah now. I stopped play NMH after a few hours because of the shallow combat and shitty mini games, but this is just not right.

 

[Slamtastic]

But NMH is like a genuine 0/10 game. Probably worse than Enslaved.

Which is why I watched a Let's Play while thinking "this sure is a cool looking game with neat characters, I wish it played differently than it does".

(obviously there are other ways to improve that series besides combat with enemies, but you get the idea)

 

[Dahbomb]

I'm feeling two things that may not make this game a failure.

1.) Review Scores

2.) Advertising

Which both directly relate to sales. For some reason, even though the DMC fans are irate about this, I think ultimately this game will sell well, why you may say?......

This game will sell well but it also depends on what you and I deem as "selling well". I think it will sell around 2 million, which is about par for the series. It won't be as high as DMC4 but it will be a decent number. That's not COD, Madden, GoW numbers but they are solid for the genre IMO. I could be wrong and the game flops big time.

If Im to believe how this thread is going; and I'm paraphrasing the discussion, the game was subsequently "dumbed down" in order to find mass appeal.

If we take in the game, without prior back knowledge of the series, and play it as someone who regularly doesn't play a massive selection of games... DmC would be a pretty good game.

DmC is a good game. But is it a good enough game that it demands massive casual hype and one that makes people go out and buy it day 1? I don't think it has that type of widespread appeal. Ask your casual friends if they are looking forward to buying this game day 1.

You could akin it to Fisher Price: My First Stylish Action Game

All it needs is Advertising and we'll see if Capcom really wants to make this happen.

This has worked before. All you have to look at is the Dante's Inferno superbowl commercial and the marketing of Skyrim.

Those marketing campaigns of those respective games found interest in people who didn't regularly play games

Man I don't know where this expression of "Fisher Price" started but it's really starting to get on my nerve. DmC is NOT "Fisher price" easy. It's more technically advance than a GoW game and I don't even consider THAT Fisher Price level.

Also I don't know how much Dante's Inferno sold but I can't imagine that it sold a ton. Certainly not Skyrim or GoW level.

I'm not into the Gothic atmosphere and demon story that is the core of the franchise, I'm only in it for the gameplay.

Also flock off featherface isn't funny in any way even ironically and also LIIIIIIIIIIGHT. I don't see how DMC1 Dante was any less of a loser than any of the others except he talked less and thus got to show it less.

The atmosphere and enemy design plus the soundtrack is still one of the best in the series and has stood the test of time. It's pretty sad that people remember DMC1 by it's few negatives, for it's time it was a near perfect action game and delivered on so many aspects of an action game.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Yeah, if anyone in here is saying Enslaved had good combat, I'll gladly pay for your MRI scan.

I think you can say pretty much the same thing about Heavenly Sword.

 

[zoukka]

But NMH is like a genuine 0/10 game. Probably worse than Enslaved.

It's a bad game done right. It's the Starship Troopers of videogames. One the best games on Wii and I had extremely good time finishing it.

Also DMC1 has amazing setting, set design, enemy design, music and atmosphere. REmake levels of quality to it.

 

[BadAss2961]

What is DmC's hook that makes it a good game in spite of simplified combat?

I was trying to think of an answer to this in an earlier DmC thread and came up with nothing.

 

[Snapshot King]

But isnt. Unless games like God of War, Anarchy Reins, Lollipop Chainsaw, Batman Arkham Asylum and Arkham City, X-men Origins: Wolverine Never Dead, Madworld, No More Heroes, Heavenly Sword, Enslaved, Sword of the Berserk, and dozens of others are also "fisher price game." If they are, then I guess I am a considered a "fischer price" gamer now.

Yeah, that's exactly what those are. I suppose you are as well, by your own definition, though I wouldn't call you that. In terms of combat mechanics, absolutely. Some of those listed are pretty great, but they're all very low skill compared to the DMC series.

The hyperbolic outrage about this game is absurd. Maybe it is a step back in terms of depth from previous entries for the sake of going in a new direction and reaching out to a new audience. But this doesn't make it a fucking Farmville clone.

So it may not reach the pinnacle of the top tier of the genre in terms of combo mechanics. That still doesn't make it trash. Most of the people bitching have probaby played and enjoyed numerous games that have less depth than this game, games like those listed above.

That doesn't mean we should be happy about stripping out the depth from this series. Instead it should be us enjoying those games, but pushing for them to be more in depth.

I don't know when this youtube combo videos cult overtook all discussion of this entire series but it has gotten pretty old. I have enjoyed this series. I really enjoyed the 1st and 4th games in particular. Moreover, I like this genre of game in general and not every game in the genre should have to be something combo obssessed youtubers can jerk off to in order to be considered good.

Bout 7 years ago when DMC3 dropped. Yknow, when the series became a franchise instead of just that one good game. So that kind of thing is absolutely synonymous with the series, I mean shit, everyone in here is watching a leaked blurry ending because who fucking cares, it's how it plays.

Is Arkham Asylum suddenly shit for soccer moms now because it doesn't have frame cancels into reversal-whatever-the-fucks? Is No More Heroes?

Now you're just being hyperbolic.

 

[nbthedude]

Maybe some of you guys should head over to the Anarchy Reins thread so you can tell everyone there the game they are enjoying is simplistic fischer price garbage. You can even be outraged that Platinum, the company that gave you Bayonetta sold you all out to bros or soccer moms or whatever.

 

[Slamtastic]

Maybe some of you guys should head over to the Anarchy Reins thread so you can tell everyone there the game they are enjoying is simplistic fischer price garbage. You can even be outraged that Platinum, the company that gave you Bayonetta sold you all out to bros or soccer moms or whatever.

But that's a multiplayer game.

 

[GuardianE]

But that's a multiplayer game.

Nor does it have a series' precedence set. It's a new IP.

And no one in their right minds would argue that Anarchy Reigns is a well balanced game. There are infinites and exploits galore, but that's okay because it's not that kind of game and it never claimed to be. Love the game, by the way. Pre-ordered it and have been playing it.

 

[Akainu]

But that's a multiplayer game.

Ok this has been bothering me for the longest. Is that a star platinum pony?

 

[Risette]

It's a bad game done right. It's the Starship Troopers of videogames. One the best games on Wii and I had extremely good time finishing it.

It's no EDF. NMH isn't even good kusoge.

Also DMC1 has amazing setting, set design, enemy design, music and atmosphere. REmake levels of quality to it.

Agreed.

I think Temenigru (?) in DMC3 isn't half bad, but it's just not near as good as DMC1 so I don't really like putting them as equals.

 

[Chamber]

I was trying to think of an answer to this in an earlier DmC thread and came up with nothing.

The combat in DmC is still good fun and there's some stuff to experiment with, you just can't try to play it like a Devil May Cry game.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Now you're just being hyperbolic.

I think hyperbole entered the discussion with the phrase "Fisher-Price".

 

[Dahbomb]

Can we stop with this Fisher Price bull shit?

 

[call_kotaku]

I don't understand how Arkham Asylum of all games is compared to DMC. Arkham isn't even trying to be that kind of action brawler, and it's good for what it is.

 

[nbthedude]

Nor does it have a series' precedence set. It's a new IP.

And no one in their right minds would argue that Anarchy Reigns is a well balanced game. There are infinites and exploits galore, but that's okay because it's not that kind of game and it never claimed to be. Love the game, by the way. Pre-ordered it and have been playing it.

So the only difference between a game that is stated as objective garbage or fisher price and one that is good expectarion.

Are you honestly willing to follow that logic to its ultimate conclusion? That would mean that if the new Devil May Cry was called something else then the name chane alone some how makes it alot better.

 

[Snapshot King]

Maybe some of you guys should head over to the Anarchy Reins thread so you can tell everyone there the game they are enjoying is simplistic fischer price garbage. You can even be outraged that Platinum, the company that gave you Bayonetta sold you all out to bros or soccer moms or whatever.

It's a multiplayer game that has poor balance and has a brawling focus instead of a character action one. I have both an import copy and a local one, have been pushing and advertising this game for months and adore it, but it simply is not all that indepth. It's a solid brawler executed well with a lot of style, but in terms of depth it doesn't come close to something like DMC3/4, Bayo or even Vanquish.

Also, you're the one calling everything fischer price garbage. I don't remember anybody else bringing it up. Is it so upsetting to you that people enjoy skill oriented play and that there's a difference between low or medium depth games and stuff like the ones I mentioned above?

 

[Dahbomb]

I don't understand how Arkham Asylum of all games is compared to DMC. Arkham isn't even trying to be that kind of action brawler, and it's good for what it is.

Exactly. Those are different types of games altogether to me. Their sole focus isn't even on the combat mechanics nor do they have some pedigree to live up to.

Are you honestly willing to follow that logic to its ultimate conclusion? That would mean that if the new Devil May Cry was called something else then the name chane alone some how makes it alot better.

It doesn't make it "better" because then it would just be a lesser DMC clone. People just wouldn't really care about it much like they didn't care about Dante's Inferno much.

 

[GuardianE]

So the only difference between a game that is stated as objective garbage or fisher price and one that is good expectarion.

Are you honestly willing to follow that logic to its ultimate conclusion? That would mean that if the new Devil May Cry was called something else then the name chane alone some how makes it alot better.

I never said that DmC was fisher price or objectively garbage, but I am absolutely willing to stand by my statement that a new entry to a series can (and SHOULD) be held to previous entry standards. It should not be reviewed independently.

 

[zoukka]

I think Temenigru (?) in DMC3 isn't half bad, but it's just not near as good as DMC1 so I don't really like putting them as equals.

DMC3 had great combat and fun enemies. But everything else was a disappointment when compared to the first game. I hated the basic enemies visually, sandbags really? The music was also bad except when you fought Vergil.

Then again the game felt godlike in every aspect if you had played DMC2.

I never said that DmC was fisher price or objectively garbage, but I am absolutely willing to stand by my statement that a new entry can (and SHOULD) be held to previous' entry standards.

To an extent. But any reasonable person should understand what a completely new studio working on an IP can mean.

 

[Beth Cyra]

So the only difference between a game that is stated as objective garbage or fisher price and one that is good expectarion.

Are you honestly willing to follow that logic to its ultimate conclusion? That would mean that if the new Devil May Cry was called something else then the name chane alone some how makes it alot better.

I agree with Dahbomb for dropping Fisher Price, even more so if it is being equaled to Garbage.

Things like Wolverine and Batman aren't garbage. I've defended Wolverine several times here on Gaf. They are simpler games, the combat just has way less flexiblity and little in the way to style. Doesn't make them lesser games then DMC or even DmC, however I go to DMC for different reasons then I go to X Men Origins Wolverine.

 

[nbthedude]

I don't understand how Arkham Asylum of all games is compared to DMC. Arkham isn't even trying to be that kind of action brawler, and it's good for what it is.

You are right it was more of an adventure game with solid combat mechanics which is also what the first Devil May Cry was also. I like the fact that this reboot seems to be going back to that some rather than just being a series of interconnected arena fights like later games in the series.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

DMC3's level and enemy design was so bad. Chess pieces? Also, you can't even juggle them, so there goes half the fun of the combat. A shame.

 

[Dahbomb]

DMC3's level and enemy design was so bad. Chess pieces? Also, you can't even juggle them, so there goes half the fun of the combat. A shame.

Chess pieces were designed around the Gunslinger style, as in the Gunslinger style is very effective against all Chess pieces. Also the Chess board part was pretty awesome... it's just fighting individual Chess pieces spread around in missions is really meh.

You really couldn't juggle quite a lot of enemies in DMC3 which was very rightfully corrected in DMC4. Most of DMC3 was played in a chamber that spawned Hell Sloths...

 

[Snapshot King]

You are right it was more of an adventure game with solid combat mechanics which is also what the first Devil May Cry was also. I like the fact that this reboot seems to be going back to that some rather than just being a series of interconnected arena fights like later games in the series.

It's not though. It seems to be the most linear of all the games save for DMC4. Every single piece of footage I've seen has Dante literally running forward into arenas and then platforming every now and then. Were this game to be as is, but have the kind of missing structure DMC1 did, then I'd certainly be more partial to it.

 

[Slamtastic]

Ok this has been bothering me for the longest. Is that a star platinum pony?

Yes
(Bonus)

 

[Chamber]

You are right it was more of an adventure game with solid combat mechanics which is also what the first Devil May Cry was also. I like the fact that this reboot seems to be going back to that some rather than just being a series of interconnected arena fights like later games in the series.

Devil May Cry's combat was cutting edge at the time. There was nothing like it back in 2001 which combined with the game's atmosphere and overall style made it a truly one of a kind experience.

I wanted DmC or DMC5 for that matter to go back to that style but it still looks like a series of interconnected arena fights.

 

[LaserBuddha]

I don't understand how Arkham Asylum of all games is compared to DMC. Arkham isn't even trying to be that kind of action brawler, and it's good for what it is.

Mechanically dense =/= deep (or good)

There is at least as much depth and skill to the combat in Chivalry as there is in any DMC game, and that game's combat is technically simpler than any of the games being discussed.

How mechanically dense a game is, or demanding of reflexes/frame counting a game is, is not a qualitative measure of it's gameplay. Don't let yourself wander into that argument.

 

[Anteater]

Ending was really

Spoiler

predictable

, didn't really expect much but it didn't really add anything much to the storytelling aspect of the series, oh well.

 

[Dahbomb]

You are right it was more of an adventure game with solid combat mechanics which is also what the first Devil May Cry was also. I like the fact that this reboot seems to be going back to that some rather than just being a series of interconnected arena fights like later games in the series.

But DmC is NOT more of an adventure game and if anything it's more linear than the previous DMC games. Your statement of interconnected arena fights is in fact what DmC exactly is. There is no real exploration or sense of adventure... you just go through corridor sequences (that are disguised by morphing environments which hardly impact you much).

The original DMC also had stellar enemy and boss designs... so far this game has neither. I saw one or two enemies that I actually liked the rest have been generic as hell almost on the same tier as DMC2.

 

[InfiniteNine]

Devil May Cry's combat was cutting edge at the time. There was nothing like it back in 2001 which combined with the game's atmosphere and overall style made it a truly one of a kind experience.

I wanted DmC or DMC5 for that matter to go back to that style but it still looks like a series of interconnected arena fights.

A friend and I rented DMC 1 randomly along with Katamari Damacy for a sleep over and we didn't stop playing till we beat it. It really was something really grand when it came out.

 

[DarknessTear]

But DmC is NOT more of an adventure game and if anything it's more linear than the previous DMC games. Your statement of interconnected arena fights is in fact what DmC exactly is. There is no real exploration or sense of adventure... you just go through corridor sequences (that are disguised by morphing environments which hardly impact you much).

The original DMC also had stellar enemy and boss designs... so far this game has neither. I saw one or two enemies that I actually liked the rest have been generic as hell almost on the same tier as DMC2.

Well... that doesn't sound good.