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DNC suspends Sanders campaign access to database after staff breached Hillary's data

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So let them, it's not like that will work in the GE. But what will work for Republicans is the appearance that the fix is in for the Democratic primary by the DNC.

If you are scared of the electability of a "Democratic" socialist in the general election then why bother at all. Picking the lesser of two evils isn't winning, it's giving up. The Republicans haven't won a presidential election since 1988. In fact their wins in 00,04 were based on theft moreso then what occurred on Wednesday.

It's sad and pathetic resorting to fear when one casts a ballot. I have no patience for those of my generation who succumb.

The level of delusion.

First, there are REAL issues with REAL stakes in elections, and settling for good over great in order to win is the intelligent choice.

Also the "the right didn't win, the left lost" comments are pretty much identical to the moronic statements most of my neocon friends say about the GOP in 2006 and 2008.
 

RedSparc

Banned
You've shown absolutely no qualms about widely speculating the motives of the DNC and DWS so far, going so far as to call the latter a rat.



See, you're doing it again. You're implying that there will be a 08 style event that the DNC is preparing for, but when I called you on it you acted sheepish and pretended you said no such thing.

If you think Clinton is going to crumble in the polls in the near future, outline why. Otherwise your little conspiracy makes no sense.

I don't think she will crumble, and I have never stated that she will, only that she has.

I did state that it's foolish to assume that she has this on lock based on year out polls.
 

Condom

Member
The level of delusion.

First, there are REAL issues with REAL stakes in elections, and settling for good over great in order to win is the intelligent choice.

Also the "the right didn't win, the left lost" comments are pretty much identical to the moronic statements most of my neocon friends say about the GOP in 2006 and 2008.
So intelligent

No 1st world labor rights or public services but at least you are intelligent. Congratulations.
 

danm999

Member
I don't think she will crumble, and I have never stated that she will, only that she has.

I did state that it's foolish to assume that she has this on lock based on year out polls.

So then why would the DNC wound themselves to help her if she might not crumble?

It's not a difficult question.
 

RedSparc

Banned
The level of delusion.

First,there are REAL issues with REAL stakes in elections
, and settling for good over great in order to win is the intelligent choice.

Also the "the right didn't win, the left lost" comments are pretty much identical to the moronic statements most of my neocon friends say about the GOP in 2006 and 2008.

Yeah no shit, I hava dead brother as proof. Its undeniable that the Bush camp cheated to win Florida, which gave Bush the election, and the during his first term enabled him to win in 04. Hell the SC ruling that gave him the election pretty much said so when they declared that it could never be used as precident.

Fortunately for me, I'm not a racist so the sentiments shared by your neo conservative friends about 08 don't apply. That and we can both rest assured that the democrats didnt steal any elections in 06 & 08. So no, its not identical, as much as you would like it to be. One is based in facts, not bigotry.
 

Monocle

Member
So intelligent

No 1st world labor rights or public services but at least you are intelligent. Congratulations.
WTF, since when is it wrong to be pragmatic and acknowledge that a less than ideal victory is better than a total loss? The US is backward af in many ways and it can't be fixed all at once. There's a lot of resistance.
 

RedSparc

Banned
So then why would the DNC wound themselves to help her if she might not crumble?

It's not a difficult question.

Because they are afraid of a 2008 repeat. I'm not saying it's going to happen, just that they are stacking the deck to prevent it from possibly happening. I suggest you do a bit of research on DWS, hopefully then you will fully understand the depths of her character and political tactics, none of this is beneath her.

If you don't think that's the case, then vote with your wallet and send DWS a donation for her stellar job losing the house and Senate to the republicans the last 3 elections.

Goodnight gents.
 

GnawtyDog

Banned
WTF, since when is it wrong to be pragmatic and acknowledge that a less than ideal victory is better than a total loss? The US is backward af in many ways and it can't be fixed all at once. There's a lot of resistance.

It'll all be fixed if you vote Bernie. Only then can real change we can believe in starts. If we lose too bad.
 

danm999

Member
Because they are afraid of a 2008 repeat. I'm not saying it's going to happen, just that they are stacking the deck to prevent it from possibly happening.

Explain to me why they are afraid of a 2008 repeat then to the extent they're willing to make themselves look this bad.

Because at the moment you're doing a circular argument where you seem to eschew any analysis. They're afraid of Clinton losing out because they are.

From where I stand, none of the factors from that 2008 go-around seem to be repeating; ambivalence from the Democratic minority community, running against the legendary Obama GOTV machine, lack of key endorsements going to Obama from both organised labour and Congressional Democrats, several blunders by her own campaign staff, etc.

In fact, all these things that killed Clinton 08 seem to be happening to Sanders this go around.

I suggest you do a bit of research on DWS, hopefully then you will fully understand the depths of her character and political tactics, none of this is beneath her.

I already know plenty about her, telling me to go away and research her some more until I find something that makes your illogical conspiracy theory make sense smells of desperation to me.
 
US doesn't really like democracy cause people might vote the "wrong" way. Sanders getting too popular and might actually challenge Killary. Gotta undermine the democratic process! This occurs all over the world...

Uncle Sam loves democracy only if his preferred candidate is elected! US mini-me's are the same way (see UK gov't response to Corbin... the people voted the wrong way).
 

Clefargle

Member
So let them, it's not like that will work in the GE. But what will work for Republicans is the appearance that the fix is in for the Democratic primary by the DNC.

If you are scared of the electability of a "Democratic" socialist in the general election then why bother at all. Picking the lesser of two evils isn't winning, it's giving up. The Republicans haven't won a presidential election since 1988. In fact their wins in 00,04 were based on theft moreso then what occurred on Wednesday.

It's sad and pathetic resorting to fear when one casts a ballot. I have no patience for those of my generation who succumb.

Nah it's still winning. Since when is pragmatism evil? I want to see change just like you. When I look at the numbers, the higher chance of getting some change vs no change or change in the wrong direction rests with Clinton. I'm not calling any sanders supporters sad or pathetic. I'm calling them unrealistic. And yes, winning is still winning. Do you get how political parties work? Do you want the margins to be so tight that the repubs could steal another election and roll back all sorts of progress? You call it fear, I call it concern. A perfectly legitimate reason to vote. Don't shame me for my vote. I don't have to agree with every thing my candidate does to vote for them. That's how representative democracy works. Cmon.

US doesn't really like democracy cause people might vote the "wrong" way. Sanders getting too popular and might actually challenge Killary. Gotta undermine the democratic process! This occurs all over the world...

Uncle Sam loves democracy only if his preferred candidate is elected! US mini-me's are the same way (see UK gov't response to Corbin... the people voted the wrong way).

Democracy is the preferred candidate getting elected, that's literally how this works. Do you have any evidence that this is rigged or are you just spewing "Shillary" nonsense?
 

oneils

Member
US doesn't really like democracy cause people might vote the "wrong" way. Sanders getting too popular and might actually challenge Killary. Gotta undermine the democratic process! This occurs all over the world...

Uncle Sam loves democracy only if his preferred candidate is elected! US mini-me's are the same way (see UK gov't response to Corbin... the people voted the wrong way).

Are you a supporter of Bernie sanders or Donald trump? Telling the difference is getting kind of hard.
 

RedSparc

Banned
Explain to me why they are afraid of a 2008 repeat then to the extent they're willing to make themselves look this bad.

Because at the moment you're doing a circular argument where you seem to eschew any analysis. They're afraid of Clinton losing out because they are.

From where I stand, none of the factors from that 2008 go-around seem to be repeating; ambivalence from the Democratic minority community, running against the legendary Obama GOTV machine, lack of key endorsements going to Obama from both organised labour and Congressional Democrats, several blunders by her own campaign staff, etc.

In fact, all these things that killed Clinton 08 seem to be happening to Sanders this go around.



I already know plenty about her, telling me to go away and research her some more until I find something that makes your illogical conspiracy theory make sense smells of desperation to me.

The blueprint to beat Clinton has been written, and it is a plan Sanders is following with more success than anyone this election. He has for more individual support then she does. That is likely to translate into actual votes come primaries, much like it did for Obama. You tout the path Obama took to beat Clinton as something that can not be replicated by Sanders but he is in a similar place that Obama was in 2007 albeit with less endorsements, but the money is there and from a staggering amount of individuals. Those who support a candidate finanically are more likely to vote then those who don't, especially in the primaries.

Clintons voting record and leadership as SoS make her even more vulnerable to Sanders platform of inequality that is aimed at the shrinking middle class. It becomes even more imbalanced when you factor in Bill Clintons economic policy and the TPP which Sanders does not yet she has flipflopped on it since supporting it as SoS. At the end of the day Clinton is more or less the same candidate running today that lost to Obama. That in and of itself should have the support within the DNC worried about an outcome similar to that in 2008. With Sanders recent endorsement and revelation of 2 milliom individual donors earlier this week is sure to raise nerves.

I don't see the same things that killed Clinton in 08 are happening now to Sanders, he isn't the front runner with a 30 pt margin to choke away. Most of her fundraising comes from corporations and wall street lkke it did and they have very little say in the voting booth too. Discounting the number of donors that have backed Sanders as of now is shortsighted since that was what propelled Obama's legendary GOTV. I did not mean to offend you by asking you to do a bit of research on DWS. I have little faith in her and hold the Clinton campaign in no way responsible for the actions of the DNC. In fact I hope that this causes the Clinton camp to distance themselves from the bad decisions that the DNC has made during this primary. Which if looked at objectivly as many well respected Obama supporters have, including the person that ran his campaign, the leadership of the DNC are using the control of the primary to suppress a challenged to their preferred candidate, that is hard to dispute.

The reason the DNC is willing to make themselves look bad is because, shockingly enough, it is ran by far more incompetent people then the Sanders camp. We are talking about a women who has lost far more seats in Congress and the House then anyone before her. We are talking about a women who has set the democratic parties ability to get Democrats elected in state and local elections back for at least a decade. We are talking about the incompetence of a women who based on her statements from today, more then likely got her ass handed to her by the Clinton camp for allowing this to even happen in the first place. It was the DNCs fault this happened. They left the door open, that is undeniable and Clinton knows nothing good will come from this if they continued to deny the Sanders camp access which itself was a breach of contract.

They are afraid of Clinton losing because like Obama in 2008, Sanders is drawing giant crowds and collecting donations from millions of people. If this leads to it a semblance of Obamas 08 GOTV then why wouldn't they be worried? Her polling then didn't protect her, and it won't protect her this time either if she has to face it again. There are just too many similarities to date between 16 and 08 to call this race comfortably in the bag for Clinton, especially because of the proven incompetence of Debbie Wasserman-Schultz. All this has done is fire up the progressive base and she was too inept to see that, Clinton did, hence the capitulation by the DNC.

I fully understand that because she lost in 08 does not mean she will lose this time. It is foolish to dismiss the similarities between the populist support of the Obama campaign and the Sanders campaign while using the the products of those similarities to explain why Obama won and how it won't benefit Sanders. Primaries are 6 weeks away, Obama's GOTV didn't hit full stride until April of 08. Sanders needs to prove he can get people into the booths but there is no reason to say that he won't or can't.

We will find out who will have the legendary GOTV come March 1st.
 

danm999

Member
The reason the DNC is willing to make themselves look bad is because, shockingly enough, it is ran by far more incompetent people then the Sanders camp. We are talking about a women who has lost far more seats in Congress and the House then anyone before her. We are talking about a women who has set the democratic parties ability to get Democrats elected in state and local elections back for at least a decade. We are talking about the incompetence of a women who based on her statements from today, more then likely got her ass handed to her by the Clinton camp for allowing this to even happen in the first place. It was the DNCs fault this happened. They left the door open, that is undeniable and Clinton knows nothing good will come from this if they continued to deny the Sanders camp access which itself was a breach of contract.

I agree.

But we have gone quite far here from you accusing the Clinton campaign of perhaps having former knowledge of this breach on Wednesday, to you admitting that the Clinton campaign is likely furious with the DNC it happened in the first place.
 

RedSparc

Banned
Nah it's still winning. Since when is pragmatism evil? I want to see change just like you. When I look at the numbers, the higher chance of getting some change vs no change or change in the wrong direction rests with Clinton. I'm not calling any sanders supporters sad or pathetic. I'm calling them unrealistic. And yes, winning is still winning. Do you get how political parties work? Do you want the margins to be so tight that the repubs could steal another election and roll back all sorts of progress? You call it fear, I call it concern. A perfectly legitimate reason to vote. Don't shame me for my vote. I don't have to agree with every thing my candidate does to vote for them. That's how representative democracy works. Cmon.



Democracy is the preferred candidate getting elected, that's literally how this works. Do you have any evidence that this is rigged or are you just spewing "Shillary" nonsense?

Well, its well within my right to call voting out of fear a craven act. Then again how do do you feel about those who said Obama was unelectable because he is black, which was the position for roughly half of clintons supporters in 08 as she was losing her grip.

Just think if we listened to them then...
 

RedSparc

Banned
I agree.

But we have gone quite far here from you accusing the Clinton campaign of perhaps having former knowledge of this breach on Wednesday, to you admitting that the Clinton campaign is likely furious with the DNC it happened in the first place.

I said that question should be asked and answered. Like I said, I wouldn't put it beneath DWS
 

tanooki27

Member
young, zealous staffers. what looked like a golden opportunity. and then...oops. sanders himself probably knew zilch. does his campaign deserve to be skewered?

sure. when you do shit like this, make sure not to get caught.
 

GungHo

Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
How much effort did Bernie's staffer need to go to in order to steal all this information?

was it just "oh the firewall's down let's just click on this link, and copy and paste her files" or something more?
They ran a search, figured out that the provider fucked up their security (again), and then sent shit around the office so that the others could see the titties too, because that's what morons do when they think that they're unsupervised.
 

Malvolio

Member
The DNC comes out looking like a bunch of amateurs after this. This is exactly what you don't want to have happen when the RNC is doing their best to punt the entire election away. They are going to pounce on this like a hobo on a hot dog.
 

sangreal

Member
Yet none of that explained the 2.1 million individual doners to the Sanders campaign.

This time in 07 Clinton had roughly a 20 point lead over Obama, how did that turn out?
Clinching those poll numbers doesn't gurantee anything. 6 debates, including one 6 days before Christmas helps a lot more.


Not in Iowa she didn't. This time in 2007 Clinton was killing Obama among black voters. After he managed to win Iowa, they completely abandoned her to the tune of Obama getting 96% of the black vote in SC (the next state he won). If Bernie wins NH, that isn't going to lead to the same nationwide shift for an entire voting block. The situation isn't remotely comparable

Tell me how bernie accomplishes this:

7T3nIrg.png


Overall, Clinton lost 100 points of support among black voters in about 120 days: a truly remarkable achievement. Since black voters make up about 20 percent of the Democratic primary electorate, a 100-point swing among black voters translates to a 20-point swing among all voters. And that, essentially, was how the primary was lost. In national trial heats, Obama was polling about 20 points behind Clinton throughout most of calendar year 2007, and wound up polling about 5 points ahead of her for most of the period after Super Tuesday. That is a 25-point swing, and 20 of those 25 points came from black voters.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/black-vote-was-invisible-to-penn/
 

dramatis

Member
The blueprint to beat Clinton has been written, and it is a plan Sanders is following with more success than anyone this election. He has for more individual support then she does. That is likely to translate into actual votes come primaries, much like it did for Obama. You tout the path Obama took to beat Clinton as something that can not be replicated by Sanders but he is in a similar place that Obama was in 2007 albeit with less endorsements, but the money is there and from a staggering amount of individuals. Those who support a candidate finanically are more likely to vote then those who don't, especially in the primaries.

I don't see the same things that killed Clinton in 08 are happening now to Sanders, he isn't the front runner with a 30 pt margin to choke away. Most of her fundraising comes from corporations and wall street lkke it did and they have very little say in the voting booth too. Discounting the number of donors that have backed Sanders as of now is shortsighted since that was what propelled Obama's legendary GOTV. I did not mean to offend you by asking you to do a bit of research on DWS. I have little faith in her and hold the Clinton campaign in no way responsible for the actions of the DNC. In fact I hope that this causes the Clinton camp to distance themselves from the bad decisions that the DNC has made during this primary. Which if looked at objectivly as many well respected Obama supporters have, including the person that ran his campaign, the leadership of the DNC are using the control of the primary to suppress a challenged to their preferred candidate, that is hard to dispute.

We will find out who will have the legendary GOTV come March 1st.
You're trotting out the same old arguments of how Bernie is comparable to Obama, so I guess the same explanation of the clear differences between the two candidates has be trotted out again too.

Obama had significant establishment support, in particular a key endorsement from Ted Kennedy. As a result the party was more divided between Hillary and Obama as opposed to how unified they are behind Hillary in this round.

Obama had much better staff, ones that did not make the fumbles Bernie's staff has made, and Obama also appeared to be in control of his campaign as opposed to Bernie's campaign continually acting out behind his back.

The Obama staff devised a clear strategy that spanned 50 states using the rules of the primary cleverly. At this point in the campaign cycle, his campaign had ground game beyond the early primary states. It helped that because Obama was a Democrat, he had a built-in floor of ground support across the country. Bernie only became a Democrat to run for president, after spurning the party for his whole career. He doesn't particularly have the assistance of existing Democratic local organizations around the country. Said Obama strategy in 2008, which was Hillary's loss, is unlikely to work against her a second time.

The money raised is not so much a question of number nowadays but a question of smart deployment. Obama's campaign translated their massive fundraising into technology that assisted them greatly in analyzing the best places to concentrate their efforts. The technology took months to build and refine both in a technical sense and in information. Bernie, on the other hand, has only been hiring state organizers; his campaign, judging from this incident, clearly does not seem to have basic technological know-how, much less say technological prowess. It's probably why they're stealing data from Hillary instead of spending their money on developing their own. In the old-fashioned way, the Bernie campaign has instead been spending their money blanketing Iowa and NH with television ads.

You claim those who support a candidate financially are more likely to vote than those who don't. But where is the data on this?

Obama as a candidate himself showed ability to do more than just punch, he could dodge and swerve. He was capable of adapting, and worked hard to beat Hillary. In comparison, Bernie didn't prepare for the first debate, he showed his inability to leave his comfort zone through the debacles with BLM at Netroots and his 30 seconds on Paris in the second debate. Even Ben Carson is trying to learn more about foreign policy.

Hillary wasn't "killed" in 2008. Obama beat her by a slim margin in delegates (4%) and with the various ways to read the popular vote, they were within 100k~ range of popular votes of each other, out of some 36 million primary voters. In terms of individuals, more people have voted for Hillary Clinton than have ever voted for Bernie Sanders (approximately 18 million).

What hampered Hillary's campaign in 2008 was a series of mistakes made by poor staff. Which is exactly what is happening to Bernie's campaign.

Finally, the polls show that the majority of individuals, as you are so keen on using as a term, are supporting Hillary Clinton. But of course, you are disregarding the polls because they are 'inaccurate', rather much like how Karl Rove had his meltdown on election night in 2012 denying the facts.

If there is someone who has to do a little research, it's probably you. It is foolish to compare the Obama campaign to the Bernie campaign.
 

Amir0x

Banned
So intelligent

No 1st world labor rights or public services but at least you are intelligent. Congratulations.

None of which are going to occur even if Bernie were elected. Which you'd know if you understand the problems that any Democratic candidate is going to face once they become president (including Hillary). Sooo... yeah, this is about pragmatism. Because even if Bernie is elected, zero of his ambitious "Democratic socialist" policies are making it through Congress. Literally zero.

So risk losing with a riskier candidate who can't even keep his campaign in order in order to, what? Make a bold statement and have a conversation? I'm sorry, Supreme Court nominations are on the line. Not going to prolong a process where Bernie was never going to win just for ideology when that's on the line.

When you and the rest of Bernie's over the top supporters can give me a roadmap to how any of his policies get implemented, we can start having a real talk about politics.
 

Clefargle

Member
Well, its well within my right to call voting out of fear a craven act. Then again how do do you feel about those who said Obama was unelectable because he is black, which was the position for roughly half of clintons supporters in 08 as she was losing her grip.

Just think if we listened to them then...

Who said anything about rights? Of course you have the right to any any silly thing you want. I'm saying you're wrong and it's insulting. Also, the situation is different. Sanders isn't Obama and doesn't have the organizing Obama did. Also the republicans didn't openly criticize him for being "black" like they would openly call sanders a socialist. Cmon, stop comparing apples and oranges and accept that my vote is as legitimate as yours. I'm voting Hillary for reasons beyond "she isn't republican", how arrogant that you act as if you have the morally superior candidate and the only one with legitimate positive qualities. Stop being so black and white. A vote for Hillary is a vote for democratic ideals and a vote for gender equality in the executive branch
 

Nibiru

Banned
Hilarious. Bernie has Hillary's back on the emails at the debate and she goes at him hard for this. Hillary and Bernie aka Scorpion and the Frog.
 

royalan

Member
Hilarious. Bernie has Hillary's back on the emails at the debate and she goes at him hard for this. Hillary and Bernie aka Scorpion and the Frog.

Because the media going apeshit over Hillary's emails and turning up nothing of value is TOTALLY the same thing as Bernie's team stealing valuable campaign data from Hillary and initially lying about having it.

Totes the same.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
How much effort did Bernie's staffer need to go to in order to steal all this information?

was it just "oh the firewall's down let's just click on this link, and copy and paste her files" or something more?

The following was posted earlier:

According toIowa Starting Line's Twitter this is what was searched and done:

Untitled.jpg


Untitled2.jpg


image.jpg


(And I don't know how to share Tweets like all you computer wizards here...)
 

Slayven

Member
Man twitter and the net in general will be straight fire when DNC announces Hillary as the candidate.

You will see some shit if this thread is any gauge to go by.
 

Zornack

Member
young, zealous staffers. what looked like a golden opportunity. and then...oops. sanders himself probably knew zilch. does his campaign deserve to be skewered?

sure. when you do shit like this, make sure not to get caught.

For the record, Josh is 39 and was National Data Director for Bernie's campaign. "Young staffers" makes it sound like some 18 year old volunteer, which this was not.
 

Volimar

Member
I never thought I'd see Bernie supporters showing the kind of willful ignorance that we expect from Republicans. You guys are embarrassing your fellow Bern-heads.
 
It's amazing how a lifelong politician in Bernie has people thinking he is the messiah of politics and will completely change the entire system
 

Clefargle

Member
It's amazing how a lifelong politician in Bernie has people thinking he is the messiah of politics and will completely change the entire system

That was never the problem I had with it. It has nothing to do with Bernie, the thing that bothered me was this. People acting like one election could fix all the problems. No president gets to make much more than incremental progress in 4-8 years unless there is a real war. Sanders would meet the same obstructionism Obama did. Acting like one person can change it all from the inside is delusional.
 
Sanders would meet the same obstructionism Obama did. Acting like one person can change it all from the inside is delusional.
That's not true at all. He'd have a much easier time getting old, white people on his side, even though he's much more radical than Obama.

Obama didn't meet with obstructionism because he was too progressive. He started out as one of the most bipartisan, moderate Presidents in recent history. He's still pretty moderate.

And I don't think Sanders will enact the crazy changes his supporters hope he will. But to think that he'll be met with historic opposition Obama faced is, as you say, delusional. Race is a huge part of it, as is the fact that the GOP will be a completely different party in 2 years. They're in a state of flux.
 
I never thought I'd see Bernie supporters showing the kind of willful ignorance that we expect from Republicans. You guys are embarrassing your fellow Bern-heads.
Agreed. I'm an independent voter and I definitely do not support Sanders now. Sanders fans have raved about how he's so noble and clean. It was easy then because he never actually had any real power. Seeing what happened yesterday, he's not so different from how Sanders supporters portray Clinton.

If it was any candidate besides Sanders, he would be dragged to hell over his lies. Is this how a Sanders presidency is going to work? Lying, obfuscating the truth, playing the blame game, whataboutism and if that doesn't work whining until everyone who is actually telling the truth is looking like a corrupt monster? That may work in the primaries, but it looks horrible when dealing with international relations.
 

Condom

Member
None of which are going to occur even if Bernie were elected. Which you'd know if you understand the problems that any Democratic candidate is going to face once they become president (including Hillary). Sooo... yeah, this is about pragmatism. Because even if Bernie is elected, zero of his ambitious "Democratic socialist" policies are making it through Congress. Literally zero.

So risk losing with a riskier candidate who can't even keep his campaign in order in order to, what? Make a bold statement and have a conversation? I'm sorry, Supreme Court nominations are on the line. Not going to prolong a process where Bernie was never going to win just for ideology when that's on the line.

When you and the rest of Bernie's over the top supporters can give me a roadmap to how any of his policies get implemented, we can start having a real talk about politics.
Negotiations come after the elections, not before. Politics 101. Even if Bernie has to do a lot less than promised it will still be more progressive than with Hilary.

And I don't understand what you mean by the last part, if he gets nominated then he will win. The democrats have this election in their pocket already with the current state of the GOP. You think Trump can beat Sanders?
 

Overlee

Member
It's amazing how a lifelong politician in Bernie has people thinking he is the messiah of politics and will completely change the entire system


You're not thinking this process through. If Bernie Sanders gets elected that means millions of voters took the time to make politics apart of their active and daily lives. To study up economic policy and the causes of social injustice. You don't vote in a primary election because you think your candidate will change the system, your vote is already changing the system!

To not see the self determinism that's bubbling in this America you would need to be blind.
 
I just don't understand how anyone can be a Clinton supporter. It's very clear that all of her policies are focus group oriented. She's a fucking weather vane. Meanwhile, they guy you're all vilifying here has been on message for 30 years. You can tout all your theoretical polling data all you want, but if it's Hillary vs who-the-fuck-ever, I'm going to stay home. Let the fucking place burn. We deserve it.
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
So risk losing with a riskier candidate who can't even keep his campaign in order in order to, what?
That's a little low considering that Hillary has had her fair share of unforced errors within her own campaigns for presidency.

When you and the rest of Bernie's over the top supporters can give me a roadmap to how any of his policies get implemented, we can start having a real talk about politics.
I'm not sure I understand the criticism - are you saying Sanders supporters can't be pragmatists like Hillary supporters apparently can?
 
Negotiations come after the elections, not before. Politics 101. Even if Bernie has to do a lot less than promised it will still be more progressive than with Hilary.

And I don't understand what you mean by the last part, if he gets nominated then he will win. The democrats have this election in their pocket already with the current state of the GOP. You think Trump can beat Sanders?

Yes he can. Think about how stupid the average american is and then remember that half of them are stupider than that. Electability is a totally valid concern in an election, and the most electable candidate is not the most left-wing senator (or perhaps mainstream politician) in all of America.
 
I just don't understand how anyone can be a Clinton supporter. It's very clear that all of her policies are focus group oriented. She's a fucking weather vane. Meanwhile, they guy you're all vilifying here has been on message for 30 years. You can tout all your theoretical polling data all you want, but if it's Hillary vs who-the-fuck-ever, I'm going to stay home. Let the fucking place burn. We deserve it.

And this is completely idiotic.
 
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