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DNC suspends Sanders campaign access to database after staff breached Hillary's data
- Thread starter Cerium
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Dude Abides
Banned
You wouldn't download a car would you?
That's what you guys sound like. Try thinking things through a bit.
That is just foolishness. That is saying that stealing trade secrets doesnt matter since if a business does do that to another business, the other business will still have that information.
Fair enough, I'm in business and if someone unauthorized were to get a copy of our 2016 strategy or business plan it could definitely hurt us.
What about my analogy do you disagree with? You can steal information from people and it can be damaging. You've been shooting down analogies that people have been forced to make to try to explain it to you. Either you don't understand or you're being intentionally obtuse and aloof. Either way, it's a waste of time.
Let me paint you a clearer picture of the incident. If two companies share a DC and due to an error in that DC one company has access to the other's trade secrets, it's the fault of the provider and the provider is accountable.
Debbie is terrible, it's the one thing both sides can agree on. I have a feeling she's just trying to save face after caving completely and verifying nothing. What kind of independent audit could they have possibly done already? If I'm Hillary's campaign I'd have to operate on the assumption that Bernie still has all her shit.
This isn't a two party system though, you have both campaigns and the provider. If Sanders campaign were not at fault, then why did they fire that guy?
yes that is one thing everybody will agree on Debbie IS terrible.
But I still believe the Bernie campaign provided the DNC with the minimal amount of assurances.
Battersea Power Station
Member
Ugh. What does this even mean? Is there any evidence that his campaign did anything wrong? If his staff denies accessing the files, what should Sanders say: "I'm sorry we accessed the files?" Your assertion makes no sense in context.
What bullshit. So, in your world the party that committed the theft did no wrong and is not to blame even though there are rules and regulations stating that the two parties cannot access each other's information? Laughable, but I guess some people just can't admit that their candidate's campaign did something wrong...
Its not my fault that I stole these secrets, I swear. The DC security was just so bad that I couldnt help myself!
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
THE REVOLUTION IS HERE, IT'S FINALLY HAPPENING!
....
WE DID IT!!!!
....
WE DID IT!!!!
Your misunderstanding of laws and contracts seem to be the only laughable thing.
You framing this incident only in laws and contracts is what is truly laughable. Lets just ignore morals and ethics, because that would paint my candidate in a bad light. Lets just narrowly focus on one aspect of it that absolves my candidate from all responsibility and puts the blame on the DNC, because the DNC are the bad guys who are keeping my candidate down.
And I am pretty sure that Bernie's campaign stealing data from the Clinton campaign is in violation of their contract with the DNC no matter the level of their security.
And_Gignac
Member
This is true. People would be going nuts. The victim complex (that Bernie has exploited, let's be honest) would be exploited and people would be asking for Clinton to even drop from the race. But that mostly because Clinton has "earned" herself a reputation (undeserved or not) with this weird, fridge part of the Bernie alliance.
Lol. Poor DWS. She is really something else. Maybe she thought the shitstorm wouldn't wind it up against her and the DNC?
Veritigo_X
Member
I can't believe Sanders actually fundraised over a scummy incident that his campaign caused. Not a good look at all.
KEY WORD
essentially
which means it wasn't the SAME. And they just admitted they provided the DNC with info
they've been asking for.
And_Gignac
Member
It is not that surprising. Bernie has exploited the "poor brave outsider" image since day one. He is a career politician, after all.
Bernie's gotten a free pass on something that would have killed anyone else's campaign, going forward he is going to need to keep a much tighter leash on his people and play error free ball.
If it was anyone else she'd be in a much better position, still a shitty one though, in all this and the campaign doing it would have sunk.
She definitely needs to go away though.
Veritigo_X
Member
It was never as blatant as this. Apparently people are eating it up so it worked out for him in the end I guess.
Battersea Power Station
Member
You all are so sad, bemoaning the sly, cunniving Sanders that promotes a culture of theft within his ranks. And everyone in here sounds so sure and confident in summarizing the events in clear black and white, while the parties actually involved are still investigating and finding out all the facts.
Seriously, go reread your own posts and tell me you're not embarrassed.
Seriously, go reread your own posts and tell me you're not embarrassed.
You realize that the guy who accessed the servers and saved the information admitted to doing it on TV right? He said it into a camera that was live and everything. There's video. We pretty much know what happened.
Vampire On Titus
Member
Do we actually know what Sanders' campaign could have potentially downloaded? From what I could gather reading through the thread it seems like they did a lot of searches but could only download a 1 page summary file.
Is that true or is there reason to believe the Sanders campaign might have a bunch of crucial information? I suspect their might not yet be a concrete answer as more information comes out but I'd like to be clear on this.
Is that true or is there reason to believe the Sanders campaign might have a bunch of crucial information? I suspect their might not yet be a concrete answer as more information comes out but I'd like to be clear on this.
Is the OP really that fucking hard to read? They never denied accessing the files. They're blaming the DNC for having shit security that allowed them to access the files, which is cowardly and shows how much Bernie cares about accountability. He fired his data director over this but not the three other staffers involved.
This is a particularly dishonest misrepresentation that Bernie fans have been spreading based on semantics. The software wouldn't have allowed them to export full lists, but as you can read in the TIME article linked in the OP, they didn't need to export the full lists. They made 24 lists from scratch using information they gathered during the breach; copy and paste would've done the job. Posters in here who have actually used the system in question have also explained this more than once.
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-12-18/sanders-campaign-fires-data-director-after-breach-of-clinton-files
And if you want to say this information is unimportant here's what the Sanders camp said about not having access to their data:
EatinOlives
Member
Let's make three things clear:
1. VAN is responsible for having shit security
2. The DNC is responsible for still using horribly outdated software
3. The Sanders campaign staffers are responsible for exploiting the security holes to their advantage.
Anyone trying to laser-focus on any one of these and ignore the others because they're inconvenient to a certain narrative they want to push are being dishonest with themselves.
1. VAN is responsible for having shit security
2. The DNC is responsible for still using horribly outdated software
3. The Sanders campaign staffers are responsible for exploiting the security holes to their advantage.
Anyone trying to laser-focus on any one of these and ignore the others because they're inconvenient to a certain narrative they want to push are being dishonest with themselves.
Dude Abides
Banned
Except the damage done here is minimal, since Hillary has an enormous lead.
Yes it is a waste of time trying to explain to obtuse people that a minor breach of data security regarding a voter list is not equivalent to stealing someone's credit card or social security information that you then use to commit fraud and financially harm that person. I'm glad we agree.
Oh, I see. so stealing millions of dollars worth (apparently) of proprietary data is morally and ethically not a big deal so long as the robber doesn't get all that much benefit from it? So, would this be indefensible if the race was close? Seems like a pretty flimsy stance to me.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree because, personally, I think the act is what is important, not whether or not the party gained an enormous benefit from their morally wrong act.
Neuromancer
Member
I never would have imagined Bernie Sanders would have turned out to be a master hacker. His angry old man demeanor hid the calm, cool nerves of a young Crash Override.
Dude Abides
Banned
I'm saying that Bernie Sanders' protest campaign (which has no chance of success) accessing voter information for a brief period, which was quickly discovered with the person responsible fired, should not be treated as a big deal by the campaign of the overwhelming front runner who will not be harmed by this breach.
If it makes you feel good to clamber up on a high horse and engage in moral grandstanding about this act of inconceivable perfidy, knock yourself out. I'm talking about how Hillary's campaign should treat it.
It isn't equivalent, it's analogous. Hence, an analogy. Since you refuse to address the actual points others have raised, and instead make fun of their similes, I cannot do anything but assume you are intentionally stirring the pot here. You quoted me using a second/more apt analogy and yet you never even address it, just the first thing you replied to snarlkily. How is this different from taking patent info or corporate strategy documents? It hurts Clinton to the tune of millions considering Bernie fundraiser off it. That money came from likely dem donors/voters and Hillary raises money off the same pool. That's millions of $$$ Hillary didn't raise today. Actual damage. Stop being nebulous and snide unless you want to have a real discussion instead of a scoff-off. If you're interested in nothing more than trolling, maybe take this silly line of comments elsewhere?
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Where are you getting this from? That would be quite the feat in under 40 minutes.
Dude Abides
Banned
Let me make sure I understand. Are you actually arguing that this has hurt Hillary not because Bernie can use the data to defeat her in Iowa and NH (or close the margin) with voter outreach but because he can spin it for fundraising purposes, and those donors would otherwise have contributed to her? That the harm to Hillary stems from some donors seeing this "scandal" and deciding they want to give money to Bernie and not her? That the very existence of this controversy actually harms Hillary?! I want to be sure because that argument is so absurd I can't believe anyone would make it with a straight face but it seems to be what you're saying and I don't want to misconstrue you.
Wafflecakes
Member
Not really...
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
I know what you're getting at, but I still think you're exaggerating. I would want to hear from an expert before I believe the information that took holds such value.
Wafflecakes
Member
Oh, I agree.
...but it is VERY easy to download millions of dollars of info within moments. So it is not remotely outside the realm of possibility.
I'm arguing both. One has a more direct impact, loss of potential short term fundraising due to Sanders campaign playing victim and raising money off it. The other is the long term damage to Hillary's strategy throug a exposure to her proprietary info. 4 people can copy a lot of info with a few clicks in 40 mins. The fact that 4 were involved when only one was fired is another indicator that this was a fully thought out action by the campaign. Not just one rouge staffer.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Reddit having an absolute MELTDOWN over this tbh.
???????? His campaign stole data from another campaign. This fact can't be refuted. If you expect the cronies of a rival campaign to go quiet about this you are oblivious to what political campaigns are.
This is indefensible, folders titled "targets" says it all
They made a mountain out of a molehill in the hope that Sanders would leak votes to Clinton. It's as obvious as the sun is bright. I just find the thought of Clinton supporters getting angry over data scandals to be hilariously hypocritical.
You know, I honestly never planned to gloat over Hillary's primary victory.
Plans have changed.
Perhaps he shouldn't be running for nominee of the Democratic party then? The party he's spent the last 30 years shitting on for being too conservative? The party with a President who he personally called for to be primaried in 2012? Some Democrat.
Personally, I don't think this entire data breach is a particularly big deal in the scheme of things, though Bernie handled it totally wrong by threatening to sue instead of taking the blame for the issue and apologizing. I'm still highly amused by the Bernie supporters who are of the belief that this event will be the end of *Hillary's* campaign - I have no idea how much contortion of the facts is necessary to reach that conclusion.
All relative. If the shoes were in the other pair of legs you know the mountain would be four times as big.
As for the second bold, heh...now that's true.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Definitely. I just don't know if that applies for this data.
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