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Do Conservatives have Groups for opposing everything?

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http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050407/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/gay_soldier
By MALIA RULON, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - An Army sergeant who was wounded in Iraq wants a chance to remain in the military as an openly gay soldier, a desire that's bringing him into conflict with the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

Sgt. Robert Stout, 23, says he has not encountered trouble from fellow soldiers and would like to stay if not for the policy that permits gay men and women to serve only if they keep their sexual orientation a secret.

"I know a ton of gay men that would be more than willing to stay in the Army if they could just be open," Stout said in an interview with The Associated Press. "But if we have to stay here and hide our lives all the time, it's just not worth it."

Stout, of Utica, Ohio, was awarded the Purple Heart after a grenade sent pieces of shrapnel into his arm, face and legs while he was operating a machine gun on an armored Humvee last May.

He is believed to be the first gay soldier wounded in Iraq to publicly discuss his sexuality, said Aaron Belkin, director of the Center for the Study of Sexual Minorities in the Military at the University of California-Santa Barbara.

"We can't keep hiding the fact that there's gay people in the military and they aren't causing any harm," said Stout, who says he is openly gay among most of his 26-member platoon, which is part of the 9th Engineer Battalion based in Schweinfurt, Germany.

Stout, who served in Iraq for more than a year as a combat engineer, said by acknowledging he is gay, he could be jailed and probably will be discharged before his scheduled release date of May 31.

"The old armchair thought that gay people destroy unit camaraderie and cohesion is just wrong," Stout said. "They said the same things when they tried to integrate African-Americans and women into the military."

Before the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, enacted in 1993 under the Clinton administration, the Pentagon had explicitly barred gays from military service. At least 24 countries, including Great Britain, Germany, France, Australia, Canada and Israel, allow gays to serve openly.

In an e-mail following the AP interview, Stout said he had been ordered not to speak to the media. "I guess they found out somehow that I was talking to the press and now they are having a fit. I will try to get everything straightened out," Stout wrote.

Martha Rudd, a spokeswoman for the Army at the Pentagon, said soldiers who are discharged under "don't ask, don't tell" typically receive honorable discharges, although the timing would be up to the individual's commanding officer. She declined to comment about Stout, saying the Army doesn't comment on specific cases.

The issue of whether gays should be allowed to openly serve in the military has received increased attention in recent months as the Army has struggled to meet its recruiting goals. Twelve gays expelled from the military sued the government in December, citing a Supreme Court ruling that declared unconstitutional state laws against homosexual sex.

The Bush administration has asked a federal court to dismiss the lawsuit.

Army Secretary Francis J. Harvey has said he opposes changing the policy, although Pentagon figures show a sharp decline in the number of U.S. military members discharged for making it known they are homosexual, falling from 1,227 in 2001 to 653 last year.

A recent congressional study on the impact of "don't ask, don't tell" said that hundreds of highly skilled troops, including many translators, have left the armed forces because of the rule, at a cost of nearly $200 million, mostly for recruiting and training replacements for 9,500 troops discharged between 1994 and 2003.

Gary Gates, a statistician at the University of California at Los Angeles, estimates there are about 65,000 gays and lesbians currently serving in the military, accounting for about 2.8 percent of all personnel. He estimates that at least 25 gay soldiers have been killed in Iraq.

Elaine Donnelly, president of the Center for Military Readiness, a conservative advocacy group that opposes gays serving in the military, said a better way to avoid the cost of replacing soldiers who are discharged for being gay is to make it very clear to people who enlist in the military, including Stout, that they are ineligible to serve if they are gay.



"I honor and respect his service to this country, but the fact that he's wounded really doesn't change the underlying fact. ... He is not eligible to serve," Donnelly said, adding that there are many reasons why people aren't eligible to serve. "This is just one of them."

Stout said he suspected while in high school that he was gay but didn't acknowledge it until later. "Then I noticed that it wasn't a phase or anything. This is me," said Stout, who enlisted in the Army after graduating in 2000.

"The 'don't ask, don't tell' policy, when it first came out, was a good stepping stone, but it's outlived its usefulness," he said. "We've progressed past it both as a military and as a society."

Recent media polls indicate some increased public acceptance for allowing gays to serve openly in the military, with more than six in 10 Americans supporting the idea while about half supported it a decade ago. An Annenberg poll taken last fall among members of the military showed a majority opposed to such service, though half of junior enlisted personnel said gays should be allowed to serve openly.
You almost have to wonder how so many groups get their funding.
 
Groder Mullet said:
Stupidity isn't a trait owned only by far-right groups.

OMG u bliend idiot, stoip listening to bush (not ur mom's vagina dutchbag...da PREZ) and start opening ur eyes to the world FGT. only right wing sux and hate all~ owned.
 

tedtropy

$50/hour, but no kissing on the lips and colors must be pre-separated
Groder Mullet said:
Stupidity isn't a trait owned only by far-right groups.

You fool, you have no idea of the evil in GAF you have just awoken. RUNNNN!
 
I don't recall saying that the left doesn't have their own fools. It's just that there are so many conservative groups out there and you don't hear of that many (if any) left-wing groups.
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
OpinionatedCyborg said:
One acronym: PETA.
One word: hippies
One man: Michael Moore

Left extremists are just as retarded as right wing extremists :)

but are more fun at parties.
 
bune duggy said:
I don't recall saying that the left doesn't have their own fools. It's just that there are so many conservative groups out there and you don't hear of that many (if any) left-wing groups.

True, I think that is because far-right groups actions and ideologies seem to be more humorous to most. Having a think-tank dedicated to removing gays from the military is waste of time and resources. Oh well, people can piss away their money any way they want.
 

kumanoki

Member
Right-wingers are far more organized. You have to hand it to them. You don't hear rightie extremists saying things like, "You can't be offend by gays in our group because you aren't Republican enough."
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
OpinionatedCyborg said:
One acronym: PETA.
One word: hippies
One man: Michael Moore

Left extremists are just as retarded as right wing extremists :)
Yeah. Good thing they're not nearly as damaging to this country and its way of life, though.
 

Archaix

Drunky McMurder
The big difference is that people that fall on the left have the ability to laugh at and ridicule those who are insane and fall on the left side, while those on the right tend to rally around their counterparts.

There's no television news network that caters to PETA, is all I'm saying.
 

kumanoki

Member
What gets me is the conservative mindset that liberals are still, still the root cause of every problem in the US. Frankly, the leadership of America is the least liberal it's been, like...ever. Liberals have virtually no say in what goes on in Washington. It seems to me that conservatives can't be content with control in the Senate, House an Presidency.

It must be very difficult to switch gears after running on the same track forever.
 
kumanoki said:
What gets me is the conservative mindset that liberals are still, still the root cause of every problem in the US. Frankly, the leadership of America is the least liberal it's been, like...ever. Liberals have virtually no say in what goes on in Washington. It seems to me that conservatives can't be content with control in the Senate, House an Presidency.

It must be very difficult to switch gears after running on the same track forever.

Conservatives like their well publicized enemies(liberals);it's good for business and politics. Afterall, that requires a hero to "save the people."
 

Zaptruder

Banned
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=liberal

- Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
- Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
- Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
- Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
- Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.

- Archaic. Permissible or appropriate for a person of free birth; befitting a lady or gentleman.
- Obsolete. Morally unrestrained; licentious.
 
kumanoki said:
What gets me is the conservative mindset that liberals are still, still the root cause of every problem in the US. Frankly, the leadership of America is the least liberal it's been, like...ever. Liberals have virtually no say in what goes on in Washington. It seems to me that conservatives can't be content with control in the Senate, House an Presidency.

It must be very difficult to switch gears after running on the same track forever.

You do realize that if you flip "liberal" and "conservative" above, you still have a true statement? This is politics as usual. People need someone to bitch at.
 
Archaix said:
The big difference is that people that fall on the left have the ability to laugh at and ridicule those who are insane and fall on the left side, while those on the right tend to rally around their counterparts.

There's no television news network that caters to PETA, is all I'm saying.

And there isn't a network that caters to gay-bashing righty's (and don't say FoxNews does). The major news networks all report on the same stories, more or less. Some personalities at Fox have conservative tendancies, some at CNN and MSNBC have liberal tendencies.

And no conservative I know rallies around the fringe elements of the Republican party.
 
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