acheron_xl
Member
Katarina and Sara Kindgom both died in The Dalek's Master Plan. But they were barely companions.
And maybe Kamelion. But was he ever alive?
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Doctor Who Series 10 |OT| He's Back, and It's About Time
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Katarina and Sara Kindgom both died in The Dalek's Master Plan. But they were barely companions.
And maybe Kamelion. But was he ever alive?
ClivePwned
Member
It used to be that Katerina, Sara Kingdom and Adric (from OG series) were considered companions who died on screen.
Katrina came in at the end of the story where Vicki left and died something like 4 episodes later. She was actually conceived as a companion and cast as such but they quickly thought having someone from so far in the past as a bad idea so they wrote her our almost immediately. So quickly that they filmed her death scene as a film insert before she filmed her first episode in the studio.
Sara Kingdom was in Dalek Master Plan only (but was in eps 4-12 of that story, so longer than Katarina). Adric was there for not quite two full seasons before
murdering the dinosaurs
And I guess K-9 that was with Sarah Jane Smith in School Reunion was destroyed but it was only in The Five Doctors and School Reunion (and K9 and Company spin-off)
So it depends on who you define as companions. The ones mentioned in this thread were all designed as companions (that didn't necessarily work out in some cases).
To me, the writing modern companions out in some form of hand-wave way so that they are dead to the Doctor but not actually dead is really, really dumb. It's like when TNG put in a Warp speed limit that lasted for three or so episodes.
The Elite
BOSS
I always appreciate when the companion has just had enough and wants to get back to their life. Or when the Doctor thinks this all might be too much for them. The new series has had a few of those. I think Bill would have called it her last adventure if the Doctor had managed to save her himself. She sort of did anyway by saying later Doc and flying off with Heather.
My favourite companion conclusion is Tegan.
Best intro IMO was the 5th Doctor's (well 4th Doctor's initially). Followed very very closely by Capaldi's electric guitar rendition in Before the Flood:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3vLoAa4y78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3vLoAa4y78
Quick Mustard
Member
Series 5 theme tune will always be my fave, but I'm gutted the Day of The Doctor end credits only got one go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr5P8mwPg9o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr5P8mwPg9o
APZonerunner
Member
Credit where it's due to Davies, he wrote two endings like this and they were both good, then a third where the character could come back and that was good too! I think the fact RTD had done the stranded/brain wipe endings made it more difficult for Moffat, though. I always felt like the brain wipe would've been a very natural thing for Amy and Rory in particular, but it would've been two in a row, technically.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
I particularly liked the theme tunes from the end of Tennant's run and the start of Matt Smith's run.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I thought Clara's ending with the Doctor getting the brain wipe instead was pretty great.
I always liked Martha but the way she was written out at the end of S3 will never not strike me as... not just bad, but kind of insulting too? And ultimately reflects poorly on her whole character and, to some extent, RTD (who, as I recall from I think one of the Confidentials, was channeling one of his own unrequited love experiences with how he wrote that exit).
I agree, thought that was a great twist.
I agree, thought that was a great twist.
paradox121
Member
Rose's ending > Good
Martha's ending > Good
Rose's second ending > Ehhh
Donna's ending > Awful
Amy/Rory's ending > Fine
Clara's ending > Great
Bill's ending > Fine
Martha's ending > Good
Rose's second ending > Ehhh
Donna's ending > Awful
Amy/Rory's ending > Fine
Clara's ending > Great
Bill's ending > Fine
I think the movie intro is my favourite one now I'm thinking about it. Just a nice simple vortex. And starting with the middle eighth (heh) is the way into my heart. Sorry Murray.
CrimsonFist
Member
Last Christmas would have been a way better ending for Clara.
lastplayed
Member
McCoy's theme will always tug at my nostalgia strings since that's when I first have memories of watching the show.
And I know it'll never happen, but if they really want to shake up the series then they should cast the next companion as the star, then cast the next 2 or 3 Doctors and have them randomly turning up throughout the season. It would allow some real brain-twisting-timey-wimey plots to happen. Kinda like River Song's life from her perspective.
And I know it'll never happen, but if they really want to shake up the series then they should cast the next companion as the star, then cast the next 2 or 3 Doctors and have them randomly turning up throughout the season. It would allow some real brain-twisting-timey-wimey plots to happen. Kinda like River Song's life from her perspective.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I think if I had to pick a best version of Grainier's theme, it'd have to be Tennant's final season with Donna + the Specials. Surfboard logo is the worst logo, but that music is probably the best blend of electronic and orchestra - earlier versions were too noisy/messy, tilted too far in the rock direction than anything. Tennant's last season is still bombastic as hell, but so was Tennant, and it matches pretty much perfectly.
You got the drums, the strings, the synth... good stuff.
You got the drums, the strings, the synth... good stuff.
lastplayed
Member
Worthintendo
Member
I can not hate on that theme at all, I really wish they had started Smith with that as its soo close to perfection. A great mix of the new (Orchestral) with the old (synth sounds), it deserved more of a run than it got.
Yep its a pretty balling theme honestly, really wish there was a true full length version of it.
While talking the 8th Doctor, the theme he got for his Big Finish episodes is really really good too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M_6f6tRR7s
Love this version .... but DEAR GOD how I hate that logo
I quite liked Donnas ending, it was just so sad cause I loved the character
It's a great ending, but ruined by the follow ups. I'm fine with giving her a happy ending, but it's sort of uninspired. The gift should have been something connected to her journey even if she will never realize it like her Library boyfriend.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Best version of the opening is the original. It's just so raw and full of a sense of wonder.
Second best is the Season 18-21 version. A great updated version that really fit that era well.
The first new series one was nice, but it didn't quite fill me with the same sense of wonder.
Second best is the Season 18-21 version. A great updated version that really fit that era well.
The first new series one was nice, but it didn't quite fill me with the same sense of wonder.
That's why it's a great ending, because it's not entirely a happy ending but a bittersweet one. She became a much better person and developed so much with the Doctor, so it's super depressing that it was all undone and the most he could give her in the end was some money.
Catherine Tate isn't up to it as an actress, and frankly, we don't have much reason to think the Doctor cares that much anymore. To him it's been hundreds of years since he knew her.
Susan, for having "knowledge beyond human", was a dumbass. It'll be nice if they touch on her and what happened with her after she left, but that's where I'd leave it.
If you're going to cast a woman, just have it be a new face please.
Susan, for having "knowledge beyond human", was a dumbass. It'll be nice if they touch on her and what happened with her after she left, but that's where I'd leave it.
If you're going to cast a woman, just have it be a new face please.
Kinglypuff
Neo Member
I think Donna's ending is awful. Not only her entire character devdlopment is erased, but it is The Doctor who makes this decision for her, and against her explicit wishes. She has basically no agency in her ending and RTD teasinf her return only to make her a shallow "happier ending" by giving her some money and a husband is an insult to the character (But then again, Rose's ending in s4 was too).
Clara calling tbe Doctor out when he tried to do the same thing to her made me enjoy Hell Bent even more than I already did. Justice for Donna.
Clara calling tbe Doctor out when he tried to do the same thing to her made me enjoy Hell Bent even more than I already did. Justice for Donna.
I've always loved the TV Movie theme, and remember finding it a little baffling how many people hated it back around the time it released. I guess there was still a sense back then that a Doctor Who theme should always skew towards weird and creepy versus bold and bombastic.
Of the modern tunes, Matt Smith's first season wins for me in terms of both music and visuals.
And since people are talking about Donna, I'll say that I loved her ending
because it meant she wasn't in the show anymore and I no longer had to put up with her "I might just have SUMMINK TO SAY ABOUT THAT SPACEMAN/VERA DUCKWORTHY/endless meaningless noise!" bullshit anymore.
I'm really glad someone gave this some love. I wanted to post about it but I wasn't sure I'd be able to find it.
WrenchNinja
Member
I was rewatching some scenes from End of Time leading up to the regeneration and geez, Ten is so melodramatic and whiny. It's really irritating the way he talks down to Wilfred like that. I mean I get it, it's a character flaw, but it doesnt really endear me to him at all. Comparing his "I don't want to go" to 9's joking around and comforting "You were fantastic" or 11's speech about moving forward and welcoming change with the 4th wall breaking "I will always remember when the Doctor was me", he's like a little kid compared to 9 and 11.
12 seemingly just wants to die which flips the thing on its head a little, I hope his death and rebirth will be good overall.
12 seemingly just wants to die which flips the thing on its head a little, I hope his death and rebirth will be good overall.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
He doesn't want to die. He wants to remain 12, but would rather die than change. Very different.
Nah, I loved Martha's. She told him to contact her if he needed help, she sorted her life out, and by the time they meet again she's a full equal rather than a woman with a puppy crush.
APZonerunner
Member
Well, huh, I just think... I think it reflected great on the character. She'd gone in intending not to fall for him (as per dialogue in Smith & Jones), does, struggles, he's not in the right place either, and then it's topped off by her family going through complete hell. It's set up, really: the very first scene of Smith & Jones is her walking to work, taking three different phone calls from her family - she is the mediator, the one who holds that fractured family together, the one who balances between the divorced parents, etc. When they have to deal with the trauma of legitimately being tortured and enslaved for a year when nobody else can remember it, it makes perfect sense that Martha would stay behind.
That's one half of the reason she gives: "I just can't. Now I've got people to look after. They're devastated, I can't leave them." But then also there's the unrequited love thing, and I honestly think that's one of the best dialogue scenes in the show, because who hasn't had a version of that conversation?
It also makes sense that after a year of reflection, Jack would decide that no, actually, he should stay with his own companions at Torchwood after literally running away from them at the first sound of the TARDIS. In this sense the series 3 finale is very neat (in others much less so, but that's been well documented).
Like, there was nowhere to go for Martha but to leave on her own steam, and that's actually what sets her apart from Rose and Donna. It's a good ending. Her stuff in series 4 is really good too - the fact that she's doing good in the Doctor's name, but she still doesn't want to travel again and demands to be taken home. Less good is all the new boyfriend stuff, especially when he's hastily written out and replaced with Mickey - there's an air of her not needing the Doctor /because/ she has this new doctor of her own, but really it should be she doesn't need him because she's brilliant alone, and that's what it was at the end of Series 3.
I hope because she's still out there and is the only one not timelocked or whatever one day, in a decade, we'll get that UNIT episode where suddenly, out of nowhere, there's Martha and Mickey, Smith and Jones. I love that thought. I hope that happens. (And even if we never get a showrunner inclined to do this, though I think Chibs could be, Big Finish inevitably will.) The amazing thing is in the canon he still has her old phone rattling around in the TARDIS somewhere or deep in one of those bigger on the inside pockets -- it could ring at any time.
acheron_xl
Member
I think, pound-for-pound, Martha's exit is the most believably character-driven in the show's history, classic and new.
ClivePwned
Member
The Elite
BOSS
I didn't really like Martha's exit because she made it about her having a thing for the Doctor that he wouldn't reciprocate. It basically closed the book on her being a rebound companion after Rose. I get it but I never really liked it.
I did like Amy and Rory's faux-exit in The God Complex though.
Yes, this. It worked well for Rose but if you repeat it without variety you're going to get diminishing returns. (This is also why in isolation I think Bill and Clara getting their own ability to traverse space and time, in contrast to Amy and Rory's "YOU ARE STUCK HERE FOREVER", works, but coming one after the other they do seem repetitive)
EvilRedEye
Member
I'd quite like an exit where it's ambiguous as to whether they're going to survive the final story or not, have them get through by the absolute skin of their teeth and decide to leave because they're just not willing to tempt fate any more.
acheron_xl
Member
So, Tegan in Resurrection of the Daleks, then.
I understand what you guys are saying, but this kind of sums it up for me:
While Martha does move on to become her own woman rather than just the Doctor's companion, to take care of the people in her life, to join UNIT, etc. the predominant feeling in that last conversation to me is too much about Martha feeling undervalued because the Doctor is not in love with her. Just rubs me the wrong way.
While Martha does move on to become her own woman rather than just the Doctor's companion, to take care of the people in her life, to join UNIT, etc. the predominant feeling in that last conversation to me is too much about Martha feeling undervalued because the Doctor is not in love with her. Just rubs me the wrong way.
ClivePwned
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHjr4JusPA8
yeah, multicamera studio makes it look like a soapie but it feels genuine. It was a story with a really, really very high body count. I think only
Davros, oh and the cat in the warehouse
Brave heart Tegan.
The Elite
BOSS
So good.
acheron_xl
Member
APZonerunner
Member
The thing that disappointed me about Amy and Rory is that series 7 had this feeling of - after he dropped them off in Series 6, I had this feeling that they were building towards him just running away. They're getting older, he can't bear it, so one day out of nowhere he just drops them off at the house he gave them with the swish car he gave them and... never comes back. And despite what the show has shown, the universe and the earth aren't that small... he just moves on and doesn't see them again. I would've liked that, as I do think it's in the Doctor's character (particularly Smith's iteration, who appears particularly against change) -- I think it would've fit, and it would've left them out there to be picked up someday in the distant future ala Sarah Jane.
...The Director lies?
APZonerunner
Member
It probably isn't a lie, tbh. Smith & Tennant were on set together, but one big difference for that change-over was that RTD invited Moffat to write one line and Moffat wrote a small speech and started the TARDIS crashing to get to his episode, so there was a lot to 'hand off'. If we get a one-line cliffhanger, it can be done separately.
Also depends on the kind of regeneration - the long FX-driven ones can easily mask two different days on set, whereas the short flash ala Smith to Capaldi practically necessitates they be there together to match stuff. Given that RTD wrote into the lore that by holding in a regeneration you make it more volatile (which is why the 10th's was so explosive) I sort of expect Capaldi's to be similar, and probably to once again wreck the (presumably outgoing) TARDIS set.
Eccleston>Tennant wasn't just filmed on separate days, but by different people and like a month apart. Same goes for Donna appearing in the TARDIS at the end of Doomsday; that was filmed weeks and weeks later, to try to keep it secret.
I kind of hope for the opposite, actually. I think given how Eleven already had what I'd consider the most destructive regeneration ever seen, as well as Twelve's current melodrama, a quiet and dignified regeneration would suit better (and be in keeping with Moffat's style of subverting expectations e.g. the Smith/Capaldi flash).
I'd also like it to take place outside of the TARDIS, purely because we've had the last three there. Though I suspect the set will end up wrecked anyway. And that would write Chibnall into something of a corner...
paradox121
Member
Bang on. Donna's end only really serves to make the Doctor a little bit sad. It erases her journey and just feels extremely emotionally manipulative. Clara's end definitely feels like a direct call out and 'correction'.
Also her ending is somehow doubly undermined by her reappearing in End of Time, remembering the Doctor, and it actually meaning nothing at all. The Doctor goes on and on about her burning up and dying if she remembers him, only for four episodes later to go 'Only kidding, she'll just pass out for a bit'.
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