Support NeoGAF

[Horsefly]

The prison is supposed to reset over time, this is made very clear and shown with stuff like breaking the window, except it only resets when it makes a point of the Doctor repeating actions to show the loop, meanwhile there are numerous things that didn't reset because the episode used them for mystery, the Room 12 clues, missing slab, skulls, digging, bird message, painting of Clara etc.

The first ever Doctor in the prison would have found no clothes either after jumping into the water, so presumably would have needed take them off and ran about naked, though really they should have reset with the room.

The biggest problem is the entire point of the resurrection loop is chipping away at the wall, but that only works by yet again breaking the reset rule and not resetting.


Time loop episodes aren't new to sci-fi, but they've been done far better without so many blatant plot holes.

Ok, cool. interesting

totally worked for me - I never thought of it as a time loop episode

 

[tonysidaway]

Ok, cool. interesting

totally worked for me - I never thought of it as a time loop episode

I'm surprised that the obvious game metaphor that drove that episode seems to have been missed by Stallion Dan, who is posting on a game forum. Games typically have state-driven elements as well as resetting elements. Doctor Who chose to adopt a game strategy of grinding because (we later find) he cannot give away his one bargaining chip, his bluff about the hybrid. It's his only way to save Clara and retain his self respect.

This is emphatically not a time loop. He remarks on this himself, every time he notices the changes in the constellations.

 

[acheron_xl]

I stand by that Love and Monsters deserves credit for at least trying. It faceplants in the last 15 minutes, but the first two-thirds is great fun.


Whereas Fear Her is just...not good. Even accounting for the fact they had no budget and an uncooperative cat.

There are some times when a show is faced with unforeseen difficulties, whether script, budgetary, or otherwise, and manage to rise above and create something really interesting as a result.

Fear Her was not one of those times.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Fear her is not good, but there are episodes I like a lot less.

Forest of the Night being one, Idiot's Lantern being another.

About Heaven Sent, the break-its-own-rules thing bugs me too, but the rest is so well done that I can forgive it.

 

[Stallion Dan]

I'm surprised that the obvious game metaphor that drove that episode seems to have been missed by Stallion Dan, who is posting on a game forum. Games typically have state-driven elements as well as resetting elements. Doctor Who chose to adopt a game strategy of grinding because (we later find) he cannot give away his one bargaining chip, his bluff about the hybrid. It's his only way to save Clara and retain his self respect.

This is emphatically not a time loop. He remarks on this himself, every time he notices the changes in the constellations.

The episode made its own rules and couldn't stick to them, making it a broken story. Nobody to blame but whoever wrote it.

Your game metaphor, weak anyway, doesn't change this.


It's a time loop episode, as in, an episode where events repeat constantly, usually until the hero/heroes break the loop, usually with minor advances towards escaping it each loop.

Heaven Sent did it via resurrection, but the style of episode is a time loop.

 

[tonysidaway]

The episode made its own rules and couldn't stick to them, making it a broken story. Nobody to blame but whoever wrote it.

You can say that until you're blue in the face. The facts differ. Essentially this is a case of you attempting to impose rules and then claiming they've been broken.

It's a time loop episode, as in, an episode where events repeat constantly, usually until the hero/heroes break the loop, usually with minor advances towards escaping it each loop.

Heaven Sent did it via resurrection, but the style of episode is a time loop.

Okay, I thought you meant a literal loop of invariable events. An example of this is River Song caught in a loop in the TARDIS in The Big Bang.

If your conception of a time loop permits variation, then the gradual state changes over the course of the episode are consistent with that.

 

[Horsefly]

The episode made its own rules and couldn't stick to them, making it a broken story. Nobody to blame but whoever wrote it.

Still not seeing it, tbh

The rules are that areas of the castle revert, but not everything reverts perfectly, if at all


this is the exploit/loophole the Doctor uses to get out by then also reverting himself (and creating the looping storyline - but I'd be hard pressed to compare this to Groundhog Day, et al, simply because all these resets are localised and happening individually rather than as a full 'universe reset' at one point in time)


That makes these things part of the rules. it must do, because we see it.



Still, I've not seen it in a few months. I'll watch it again at some point and look for it, but right now your problems sound like "Stallion Dan rules" and not the ones I witnessed in the episode

(full disclosure: I loved series 6.. yes, even THOSE episodes! I really shouldn't be the person arguing in favour of the consistency of Dr Who scripts )

 

[acheron_xl]

This is all happening inside a machine built by Time Lords, who are often ridiculous and impossible (and borderline magical) so does the fact that it isn't perfectly internally consistent actually matter?

 

[EvilRedEye]

You can poke holes in Heaven Sent but the problem is they're of a tier of plot hole that you could easily level at the core concept and lore of the show as a whole. The 'where do the original set of clothes come from' thing isn't any worse than the temporal paradoxes that occur on the show on a regular basis.

 

[M.Bluth]

This is all happening inside a machine built by Time Lords, who are often ridiculous and impossible (and borderline magical) so does the fact that it isn't perfectly internally consistent actually matter?

Moffat should've presented this better if it was really his intention, but you could also argue that the Doctor isn't an absolute authority on how the confession dial works.
I mean, most of the episode is him investigating to figure out where he is, and incorrectly thinks there's a TARDIS behind the azbantium wall.

Or also it's really difficult to pull off such a story without bending some details and it doesn't really matter because the whole of the episode ends up being pretty damn fantastic.

 

[Quick Mustard]

Heaven Sent being discussed?
Obligatory Breaking The Wall:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkd1eZUxzUo&index=7&list=LLw98l5PEvnW6c2A5aPGDX9g

Series 9 OST whennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!

 

[EverythingShiny]

I *loved* Heaven Sent and a big reason why is because Capaldi's performance is absolutely amazing. I didn't even care about shit like where the first pair of clothes came from, but my suspension of disbelief game is pretty strong. A plot hole has to be really huge and glaring for me to be upset by it.

I just finished the Main Range Eighth Doctor productions (except the Mary Shelley bits which I'll get to eventually.) I was not a big fan of C'rizz in the end, but I love Charley and got a little too excited when the Cybermen in The Girl Who Never Was sounded like the Tenth Planet Cybermen. Love the sing-songy voices - I wished they'd use them more in NuWho. Maybe they will now that those Cybermen were reintroduced in World Enough and Time.

Now, onto the Eighth Doctor Adventures.

 

[tonysidaway]

... got a little too excited when the Cybermen in The Girl Who Never Was sounded like the Tenth Planet Cybermen. Love the sing-songy voices - I wished they'd use them more in NuWho. Maybe they will now that those Cybermen were reintroduced in World Enough and Time.

I love those strange Tenth Planet voices, too, and I was so pleased to hear them again in Series 10. The poor Cybermen have suffered many indignities over the decades, but in my opinion the most distressing has been the endless tinkering with their voices.

If I could add one thing, it would be to instruct the actors to open their mouths and leave them open but motionless to provide a visual cue to the viewer when their voices are being played, as was the case in the original Tenth Planet. That has quite a powerful alienating effect, which is the key to the horror element.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Still not seeing it, tbh

The rules are that areas of the castle revert, but not everything reverts perfectly, if at all


this is the exploit/loophole the Doctor uses to get out by then also reverting himself (and creating the looping storyline - but I'd be hard pressed to compare this to Groundhog Day, et al, simply because all these resets are localised and happening individually rather than as a full 'universe reset' at one point in time)


That makes these things part of the rules. it must do, because we see it.



Still, I've not seen it in a few months. I'll watch it again at some point and look for it, but right now your problems sound like "Stallion Dan rules" and not the ones I witnessed in the episode

(full disclosure: I loved series 6.. yes, even THOSE episodes! I really shouldn't be the person arguing in favour of the consistency of Dr Who scripts )

They not my rules.

The episode itself states the rooms reset. It shows us they reset.

Except whoever wrote it forgot that meant the things previous Doctors did would need be reset too, and put in no explanation why they didn't reset.

Loads of people have pointed out the numerous errors and Moffat also tried to give explanations to the plot holes, though only a few, and they remain plot holes as they not in the episode.

 

[tonysidaway]

Except whoever wrote it forgot that meant the things previous Doctors did would need be reset too, and put in no explanation why they didn't reset.

And which actor, pray, was employed to give the relevant third person omniscient narration stating definitively that the rooms always completely reset? That seems to be missing from the BBC broadcast copy of the episode and the Blu-ray.

Is it in the published script?

But most of all, you need to understand that something you cannot understand is not a plot hole. A plot hole is an unresolved internal inconsistency, not some nonsensical reasoning by a random fan.

 

[paradox121]

This feels the same as people getting hung up on the chicken monster in Vincent and the Doctor i.e. you're kinda missing the point of the episode.

 

[Horsefly]

They not my rules.

The episode itself states the rooms reset. It shows us they reset.

Except whoever wrote it forgot that meant the things previous Doctors did would need be reset too, and put in no explanation why they didn't reset.

Loads of people have pointed out the numerous errors and Moffat also tried to give explanations to the plot holes, though only a few, and they remain plot holes as they not in the episode.

really confused now

the episode doesn't *state* that the rooms reset, but it does *show* us that rooms reset badly; not everything resets all the time. that's what we see.

it's that principle (not all rooms resetting everything all the time) that lets the doctor communicate between instances and push him towards the solution to get out the way he did. Wasn't that the story?

What you're calling "plot hole" I'm calling "the plot"

 

[Stallion Dan]

And which actor, pray, was employed to give the relevant third person omniscient narration stating definitively that the rooms always completely reset? That seems to be missing from the BBC broadcast copy of the episode and the Blu-ray.

Is it in the published script?

But most of all, you need to understand that something you cannot understand is not a plot hole. A plot hole is an unresolved internal inconsistency, not some nonsensical reasoning by a random fan.

really confused now

the episode doesn't *state* that the rooms reset, but it does *show* us that rooms reset badly; not everything resets all the time. that's what we see.

it's that principle (not all rooms resetting everything all the time) that lets the doctor communicate between instances and push him towards the solution to get out the way he did. Wasn't that the story?

What you're calling "plot hole" I'm calling "the plot"

DOCTOR: "I've just been here a very, very long time. Every room resets. Remember I told you that? Every room reverts to its original condition."

Quoted from the episode.


Are you alt accounts? How can you both be so certain yet so wrong.

 

[Exterminieren]

God, of all the things I care about in Heaven Sent, the internal logic of the rooms is the absolute last thing I care about. I'm perfectly happy to handwave some of the skipped logical beats and focus on how goddamned exceptional pretty much every other aspect of that episode is.

 

[Broken Joystick]

I've spent ages trying to "beat" the logic in science fiction shows and it's never made me happier.

 

[Stallion Dan]

God, of all the things I care about in Heaven Sent, the internal logic of the rooms is the absolute last thing I care about. I'm perfectly happy to handwave some of the skipped logical beats and focus on how goddamned exceptional pretty much every other aspect of that episode is.

That's fine, but lots of people like stories that work when separated from performance.

I've spent ages trying to "beat" the logic in science fiction shows and it's never made me happier.

If it was a minor thing, a nitpick, it could easily be ignored (pretty much have to with Who), but it's breaks the entire end goal of the episode and everything that gets the Doctor there. It not so much a plot hole but a plot canyon.

 

[Platy]

This is a doctor who thread for God's sake!

Rules being thrown out of the window because it makes for awesome story is like the show's description

 

[Exterminieren]

That's fine, but lots of people like stories that work when separated from performance.

Heaven Sent works superbly as a narrative, even with this logic hiccup. The story is the Doctor getting caught in his grief and facing his demons, and the sheer lengths that he will go to for the sake of his principles and his friends. All else is mechanical, and I don't honestly care that much.

It's also exceptionally easy to handwave- the crystal wall doesn't reset because it's connected to the outside world, for instance.

 

[APZonerunner]

I think the thing about Heaven Sent that made me like it so much is that it sort of was a Moffat version of the heart-over-head style of writing that made me prefer RTD's era - so yeah, the logic is fucked, but the emotional resonance of the episode is such that I'm actually OK with this.

 

[Stallion Dan]

It's also exceptionally easy to handwave- the crystal wall doesn't reset because it's connected to the outside world, for instance.

That's just an excuse Moffat came out with when fans questioned him repeatedly over the plot hole, is nothing in the episode to explain it, nor does it account for all the other things that fail to reset.

 

[Ceej]

The other thing to keep in mind is that it's the Doctor who says that every room resets, this is based only on his observations, as he hasn't even discovered the wall at this point in the story. He's basically an unreliable narrator here and it should not be taken that his observations are the unshakable rules.

 

[Exterminieren]

That's just an excuse Moffat came out with when fans questioned him repeatedly over the plot hole, is nothing in the episode to explain it, nor does it account for all the other things that fail to reset.

There's nothing in the episode to contradict it, either.

Look, this is not something that we're going to agree on- we both agree that there's logical inconsistencies in the episode, but they are episode-breaking for you, and damned near irrelevant for me.

 

[Stallion Dan]

The other thing to keep in mind is that it's the Doctor who says that every room resets, this is based only on his observations, as he hasn't even discovered the wall at this point in the story. He's basically an unreliable narrator here and it should not be taken that his observations are the unshakable rules.

Actually he says it while dying, after having punched the wall.

There's nothing in the episode to contradict it, either.

That's not how plot holes work, if you're suggesting because Moffat gave an explanation that it is not one.

 

[Ceej]

Actually he says it while dying, after having punched the wall.



That's not how plot holes work, if you're suggesting because Moffat gave an explanation that it is not one.

I was referring to the first time he says it.

The second time through he is consciously using his observation of the reset behavior for two things: to use the teleporter (which resets) and to punch the wall (which does not). It doesn't matter WHY the wall doesn't reset. Especially considering the story is told entirely from the Doctor's perspective. There are many theories (one, it's a wall, not a room. two: it's the edge of the dial, etc. etc.) the key point is that it doesn't matter in the context of the episode. That's why basically nobody else is making a fuss about it: it's beside the point.

I can understand that some people just wouldn't like the ep, my sister found it boring for example. But this is a pretty unfair perspective considering there are so many episodes of Doctor Who which make way, way, longer gaps in logic, just we choose to gloss over them because Doctor Who is not a hard science fiction show. It's not about the how and why.

 

[Blader]

The TV Movie
Well...that is definitely what a mid-90s Fox tv movie production looked like.

Most people, from what I've seen, tend to single out Paul McGann's performance and the set design of the TARDIS as the high points (and maybe only worthwhile points) of the movie, with Eric Roberts' performance as The Master as the low point. But I don't know that I see a ton of daylight between them. Yeah, Roberts really hams it up pretty often -- and the characterization of The Master is a really dumbed down and boringly simple version of the Delgado/Simm/Gomez versions -- but it doesn't feel all that out of place. Because McGann is also pretty over the top himself. He does have a few great Doctor-y touches (his timing and delivery of "These shoes! They fit perfectly!" was spot on), but for every one of those lines, you have twice as many melodramatic bursts, like falling to his knees, staring up at the sky (err, ceiling) and shouting to the heavens "WHO...! AM...! I...?!?!" Grace's is also an over-the-top performance, though not to the extent of McGann and Roberts' scenery chewing. So it's hard to see Roberts as uniquely problematic when the memo across the board, from the principals to the extras, is to ACT BIG.

The plot doesn't make sense right? Do other people get it? Because I didn't get it. I didn't get why opening the Eye of Harmony was going to destroy the Earth and, by extension, many other planets; I didn't get why it has a brain-switching application that would let the Master take the Doctor's body; I didn't get how

Spoiler

it suddenly brings Grace and Chang back to life at the end

; and I really don't get why this Time Lord artifact of enormous, life-ending power is inaccessible to the Doctor and Master but easily opened just by having a human look at it. What the hell kind of security is that?

On the plus side...well there aren't really any pluses. I didn't hate the experience of watching it, it's an interesting little curio. But I'll probably never see this again. It just felt weird and off. Like, it's Doctor Who...but there's something off about it. It reminds me of when I was a kid and saw the Power Rangers movie in theaters. I loved the tv show, but the movie just felt...off. Same actors, same world, it was still Power Rangers...but there was something different about it that I couldn't put my finger on but rubbed me the wrong way. That's how I feel about the Doctor Who TV movie. It's the Power Rangers Movie of this series.

BONUS: The Curse of Fatal Death
A short spoof made for Red Nose Day, it's not exactly a *real* episode of Doctor Who but it is significant for two reasons: 1) it's the last filmed Doctor Who production before the show was revived by RTD in 2005, making it the last to use the classic title and credit sequences; and 2) it was the first filmed Doctor Who production to be written by Steven Moffat.

Not a ton to say about the special itself other than it is pretty funny, Rowan Atkinson and Jonathan Pryce actually make for a great Doctor/Master pairing even if they are playing parody, and it's almost eerie how some of these alternate Doctors mimic what would be their real later-day counterparts, right down to the 13th Doctor being a blonde woman!

All in all, I really enjoyed it and it felt to me like more a fitting end to classic Doctor Who -- and a bridge to modern Who -- than the TV movie did.

And that's a wrap on my brief classic Who sampling marathon! Of the 13 serials and 8 Doctors I've watched for the first time over the past couple months, these stood out as my favorites:

Favorite Episodes
City of Death
The Tomb of the Cybermen
Genesis of the Daleks
The Caves of Androzani
The Three Doctors

Favorite Doctors
Patrick Troughton
Tom Baker
William Hartnell
Peter Davison

Favorite Companions (of the ones I've seen at least)
Romana
Jamie
The Brigadier
Ace
Peri

Definitely a fun experience and it gave me a good blueprint for which classic Doctors I know I'll like and should check out more of. Assuming we'll have another 8 or 9 month break between Christmas and S11 next year, I'll use that time to dive more deeply into Hartnell, Troughton, and Tom Baker's runs -- and maybe give Pertwee's a second shot.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Thanks to my kids getting interested in Who, I've seen the TV movie twice. I thought it was fine, but I agree that the flavor is off. As far as the nonsensical plot details, I'm so used to them from the main show that it didn't bug me that much. I actually *liked* Eric Roberts as the Master, but I've never seen old-school Master at all. Seemed in line with the Simm version. I liked his warped version of a companion, who thought he was the good guy.

Oh, and I really liked the Curse of Fatal Death. Somehow I missed that Moffat wrote it. Jonathan Pryce is pretty great and I usually like him in anything I really liked him in this. I loved all the actors who showed up after Atkinson too. Jim Broadbent!

 

[M.Bluth]

To me, the most interesting thing about the TV movie will always be that they didn't actually reboot Doctor Who.
The show was cancelled 7 years ago, we're recasting it, we'll mess about with the universe's mythology, it's set primarily in America, produced by an American company for an American audience, but it's also a direct sequel.

I appreciate that and I find it completely idiotic at the same time xD

 

[Blader]

You guys raised two things I completely forgot about but was going to mention in my write-up:

Thanks to my kids getting interested in Who, I've seen the TV movie twice. I thought it was fine, but I agree that the flavor is off. As far as the nonsensical plot details, I'm so used to them from the main show that it didn't bug me that much. I actually *liked* Eric Roberts as the Master, but I've never seen old-school Master at all. Seemed in line with the Simm version. I liked his warped version of a companion, who thought he was the good guy.

Yeah, that was an interesting idea! RTD did a similar thing with The Master and what's her name...Lucy (?) in The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords, but it works better here just because Chang gets more screen time. It seems like he buys too quickly and easily into the Master's version of events, but then again, isn't that usually the case with the Doctor's companions too?

Now that I think of it, another thing I liked: setting the story at New Year's Eve 1999. It didn't really play into the plot much, but Y2K is a cool backdrop for a Doctor Who story.

To me, the most interesting thing about the TV movie will always be that they didn't actually reboot Doctor Who.
The show was cancelled 7 years ago, we're recasting it, we'll mess about with the universe's mythology, it's set primarily in America, produced by an American company for an American audience, but it's also a direct sequel.

I appreciate that and I find it completely idiotic at the same time xD

I can't imagine how anyone new to Doctor Who made it through even the first 10 seconds, this thing comes at you hard with mythology exposition. I mean these are literally the first lines spoken: "It was on the planet Skaro that my old enemy the Master was finally put on trial. They say he listened calmly as his list of evil crimes was read, and sentence passed. Then he made his last, and I thought, somewhat curious request. He demanded that I, the Doctor, a rival Time Lord, should take his remains back to our home planet, Gallifrey."

Holy shit! What a bombardment of alien names. I wonder how many people changed the channel right after this.

(Also, wasn't Skaro blown up by McCoy?)

 

[EvilRedEye]

I know people say 'What if they'd not started the TV movie with McCoy?' but having watched the special features on the DVD I honestly don't think anything could have made the Americans watch it in sufficient numbers to get it to a series so I'm kind of glad they made it weirdly continuity-based and just about in line with the existing story.

 

[tomtom94]

Major rumour for series 11: allegedly the episode count is being reduced to 10 but the episodes will be an hour long to compensate.

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/doctor...ie-whittaker-series-11-fewer-longer-episodes/

 

[Spectromixer]

Major rumour for series 11: allegedly the episode count is being reduced to 10 but the episodes will be an hour long to compensate.

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/doctor...ie-whittaker-series-11-fewer-longer-episodes/

Also The Mirror is reporting that Chibnall has ordered for new police box, TARDIS control room, and sonic screwdriver designs. Which is to be expected but still cool.

 

[Htown]

Major rumour for series 11: allegedly the episode count is being reduced to 10 but the episodes will be an hour long to compensate.

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/doctor...ie-whittaker-series-11-fewer-longer-episodes/

going to make things awkward for the US, since BBC America is a commercial-based network like any other.

hour and a half time slot with a shitload of commercials, I guess

hopefully they don't just try to cut the episodes down like they do with some of the reruns

 

[M.Bluth]

Major rumour for series 11: allegedly the episode count is being reduced to 10 but the episodes will be an hour long to compensate.

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/doctor...ie-whittaker-series-11-fewer-longer-episodes/

Pretty disappointing if true, especially if we still end up with the occasional Fear Her/Forest of the Night tier episode

New TARDIS is exciting, though. It's pretty fun to see a new companion's reaction to the TARDIS, but doubly so when we're seeing it for the first time too.
Amy entering the TARDIS is one of my all time favorite moments, and I might have a little more love for the Snowmen than I should solely because of the new TARDIS reveal.

I wonder if the BBC will go all out and build it again from scratch or are they keeping the basic current frame and they'll redesign heavily.

 

[paradox121]

I wonder if that also leads credence to the rumour of a move to Sundays. Hour-long episodes that have to come before Strictly on a Sat would need to start at something like 5.30 which is always an awful slot.

I could totally see them move it to Sunday evenings and making it the flagship drama, particularly given how big Sunday dramas became with Call the Midwife etc.

 

[Vibranium]

Major rumour for series 11: allegedly the episode count is being reduced to 10 but the episodes will be an hour long to compensate.

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/doctor...ie-whittaker-series-11-fewer-longer-episodes/

Fine by me, less episodes makes me sad but I'd rather the show stays alive and can maintain budget. I do hope we bounce back to 12 or 13 (heh) eventually.

I just want a pure historical episode, if Chibnall did it I would be thrilled.

 

[APZonerunner]

I wonder if that also leads credence to the rumour of a move to Sundays. Hour-long episodes that have to come before Strictly on a Sat would need to start at something like 5.30 which is always an awful slot.

I could totally see them move it to Sunday evenings and making it the flagship drama, particularly given how big Sunday dramas became with Call the Midwife etc.

I think we're going to see a renewed focus under Chibs of it being a 'family drama', and Sunday works for that, too. RTD's era almost went out on Sunday, and Sarah Jane Adventures and regular Who repeats actually went out on Sunday during that era and used to pull in a million plus.

 

[aHebrewMenagerie]

Fine by me, less episodes makes me sad but I'd rather the show stays alive and can maintain budget. I do hope we bounce back to 12 or 13 (heh) eventually.

I just want a pure historical episode, if Chibnall did it I would be thrilled.

Overall, 10 hour long episodes will be more Doctor Who, 12x45m episodes come out to be around 540 minutes all together, compared to the proposed 600 minutes.

 

[EverythingShiny]

Regarding the movie - I finally watched it *after* I'd already started listening to the Eighth Doctor main range stuff. Watching it was such a weird experience because I'd already come to love the Eighth Doctor, and the movie is just... bad. I read afterward that it was basically written by a super fan, hence all the ridiculous in-jokes and completely random references. I do agree that McGann had some over the top scenes, and he's not an over the top kind of guy so I imagine a lot of that boils down to awful directing.

Also, holy shit, Daphne Ashbrook (Grace Holloway) is Dana Ashbrook's sister. Mind blown.

I'm on Season 3 of the Eighth Doctor Adventures and just took a quick detour to listen to Company of Friends and the 3 Mary Shelley stories, which were fantastic. I can safely say that the Eighth Doctor is my favorite doctor. I've been really impressed with the quality of the Big Finish Productions - the continuity is fantastic and the writing (outside of a few clunkers) has been, I'd argue, far more even than NuWho.

I'm really surprised/amazed at how talented Nicholas Briggs is. Seems like he's one of the main driving forces behind Big Finish. I'd always known him as the voice of the Daleks/Cybermen, but his writing/direction/production of the Eighth Doctor's stuff has been really great.

And, once I've finished the Big Finish stuff, there's the 50+ novels to dive into. And I haven't even finished watching the Classic Who episodes. So much Doctor Who!

 

[Spectromixer]

The animated Shada has been finally been announced after all the rumors

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-41556134

 

[tuffy]

Shada being completed (in a way) will make it the new final 6 part Doctor Who story, which is kinda neat in its own right.

 

[Feffe]

Fine by me, less episodes makes me sad but I'd rather the show stays alive and can maintain budget. I do hope we bounce back to 12 or 13 (heh) eventually.

I just want a pure historical episode, if Chibnall did it I would be thrilled.

The 13 episodes + Christmas Special format was a sort of mistake from BBC part. Since Series 1 they gave the production team the budget for 13 episodes, then they decided to commission a Christmas Special for Series 2 onwards. Problem is, the production team basically had to shot 14 episodes (13 regular episodes + 1 special) with the budget and timeframe of 13 episodes.
With Capaldi's run they basically rectified that.

 

[Blader]

Overall, 10 hour long episodes will be more Doctor Who, 12x45m episodes come out to be around 540 minutes all together, compared to the proposed 600 minutes.

It might be literally more time, but it's 2-3 fewer stories per year. And, I'm not so sure increasing the run times of each episode will benefit pacing at all.

 

[tonysidaway]

It might be literally more time, but it's 2-3 fewer stories per year. And, I'm not so sure increasing the run times of each episode will benefit pacing at all.

Yes, that remains to be seen. It may mean fewer stories spread over two episodes, and it may also reduce the number of episode writers unless Chris Chibnall decides to write fewer episodes compared to his predecessors Davies and Moffat.

A lot of this is presently imponderable because we don't have any idea what the new productions will feel like. Chris Chibnall in deciding from the outset to audition women for the main role signalled a taste for audacious change, and it would be unwise to make any predictions based on the recent past.

 

[APZonerunner]

Yowzer, this might be the best cover they've ever done.

 

[aHebrewMenagerie]

Yowzer, this might be the best cover they've ever done.

O_O

I AM SHOOK