Better Call Saul S3 |OT| Gus Who's Back - Mondays 10/9c on AMC

Since now is the longest possible time til more BCS, I decided to rewatch BrBa. It's so easy to get hooked again, even on my third watch. Already nearing the end of s2. Of course now it got even more interesting since Saul just made his entrance. So paying extra attention for all his scenes.

I even forgot he mentioned his real name in his first episode: "Faith and begorra, a fellow potato-eater! My real name is McGill. The Jew thing I just do for the homeboys. They all want a pipe-hitting member of the tribe, so to speak."
 
Creamium said:
I even forgot he mentioned his real name in his first episode: "Faith and begorra, a fellow potato-eater! My real name is McGill. The Jew thing I just do for the homeboys. They all want a pipe-hitting member of the tribe, so to speak."
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Hahahaha, I can hear his voice in my head saying this line.
 
The first scene of the next season will be Chuck on his death bed asking Jimmy to change his name as a last request, as he is the last known living McGill. It would be a fitting explaination/catalyst on what caused Saul to change his name legally.
 
Major Gripex said:
The first scene of the next season will be Chuck on his death bed asking Jimmy to change his name as a last request, as he is the last known living McGill. It would be a fitting explaination/catalyst on what caused Saul to change his name legally.
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Sounds contrived. He probably just struggles to find clients as Jimmy McGill after the Sand Piper settlement debacle.
 
Scene how Irene's arc got solved leads me to the belive that BCS will get a good ending for jimmy in the post BB timeline. Maybe with Kim.
He's a con man yes but not a bad person.
 
HP_Wuvcraft said:
Again: he sells meth and fucking kills people personally.
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Yep, still not a monster. A bad guy though, of course. The same goes for Jesse and Mike here with dealing meth and killing people. A monster to me implies a lack of emotion and humanity, someone that's impossible to sympathize with. Todd is a monster.
 
Lothar said:
Yep, still not a monster. A bad guy though, of course. The same goes for Jesse and Mike here with dealing meth and killing people. A monster to me implies a lack of emotion and humanity, someone that's impossible to sympathize with. Todd is a monster.
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You're splitting hairs. He's a terrible human, who gives a shit what you wanna call it. This hill is not worth dying on.
 
Major Gripex said:
The first scene of the next season will be Chuck on his death bed asking Jimmy to change his name as a last request, as he is the last known living McGill. It would be a fitting explaination/catalyst on what caused Saul to change his name legally.
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Chuck saying "you never mattered that much to me" was his parting words to Jimmy. A hospital deathbed scene sounds maudlin.

My guess is, knowing Jimmy, he'll wind up using the name Saul Goodman due to a legal loophole, or his ruined reputation among the elderly, rather than any honor to his brother or family name.
 
Lothar said:
Yep, still not a monster. A bad guy though, of course. The same goes for Jesse and Mike here with dealing meth and killing people. A monster to me implies a lack of emotion and humanity, someone that's impossible to sympathize with. Todd is a monster.
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Walt is basically your description of a monster by the end, caring about his own ego over all other life forms.
 
Human Trashcan said:
You're splitting hairs. He's a terrible human, who gives a shit what you wanna call it. This hill is not worth dying on.
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The reason I think it's not splitting hairs and it's worth discussing is because some try to act like Walt didn't have an arc. The show was Mr Chips going into Scarface. It wasn't he's a monster and was always a monster. I think that's a lousy way to view the show.

The origin of this discussion was this post and it's follow up reply
Veelk said:
I feel it's more that the characters these particular showrunners write go through a series of micro arcs rather than one big arc from A to B. By the end of BB, we could conclude that Walter White was firmly a monster (and even then, there are debates about how pure he was in that regard), but over the course of the show he'd just constantly swing back and forth. Here he is doing something for his family, here he is escalating things needlessly, here he is being selfless, here he is being selfish.
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Vagabundo said:
Walt was never not a monster; first episode became a drug dealer, killed two people. Oh he had his "reasons" and he was a likeable/watchable monster, but he became the person he always wanted to be but was too cowed to realise. It took a life crisis to bring it to the fore.

Saul struggles more with himself. There are parallels, but I don't think its the same.
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I agree with Veelk and I don't think Vagabundo's view here is a good way to view the show.

It does make a difference whether someone is a bad guy (Walt in Season 1) and a monster (Walt at the end).

Servbot24 said:
Walt is basically your description of a monster by the end, caring about his own ego over all other life forms.
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Totally correct. This issue was describing Walt as that in the beginning.
 
Glad they finally got around to it. Will be interesting to see the details as they come together (when it airs, how many episodes, etc...) though presumably they'll stick to the usual schedule and 10 eps.

EDIT: Obligatory:

fuEakaJ.gif
 
CyReN said:
Season 4 confirmed

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/amc-renews-better-call-saul-for-season-4-1202479682/amp/
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AMC knows what's up

"Supporting artists we respect and admire; delivering truly outstanding character development and nuanced dramatic twists and turns; continuing a legacy of bold creative choices; loving writing that is the best in the business: Truly, ‘S'all good, man'" said Charlie Collier, president of AMC, SundanceTV and AMC Studios.
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Edit:beaten.
 
Huh thought the official renewal was taking a while so they could nail down when the show would end. I'm still banking on season 5 being the last one.
 
Chumley said:
No mention of it being the final season, so I'm guessing that means Season 5 will be the end.
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In recent interviews, I think they talked about a season 5 being their plan, or what they've considered being the plan. I think Peter Gould is going to be running season four alone while Gilligan is doing his HBO limited series, and then he's supposed to come back for the final season in 2019. That's what was said a month or two back, if I'm remembering right, and depending on getting one more renewal.
 
kevin1025 said:
In recent interviews, I think they talked about a season 5 being their plan, or what they've considered being the plan. I think Peter Gould is going to be running season four alone while Gilligan is doing his HBO limited series, and then he's supposed to come back for the final season in 2019. That's what was said a month or two back, if I'm remembering right, and depending on getting one more renewal.
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Vince stepped aside after the first couple episodes this season for pre-production stuff, so even a full season without him would be in very capable hands.
 
kevin1025 said:
In recent interviews, I think they talked about a season 5 being their plan, or what they've considered being the plan. I think Peter Gould is going to be running season four alone while Gilligan is doing his HBO limited series, and then he's supposed to come back for the final season in 2019. That's what was said a month or two back, if I'm remembering right, and depending on getting one more renewal.
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Doesn't surprise me about Vince, on the podcast all year he was basically trying to hide the fact he didn't meet or interact with most of the people who worked on these episodes lol
 
rekameohs said:
Vince stepped aside after the first couple episodes this season for pre-production stuff, so even a full season without him would be in very capable hands.
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Definitely, this team can crack out some fantastic stuff.

Chumley said:
Doesn't surprise me about Vince, on the podcast all year he was basically trying to hide the fact he didn't meet or interact with most of the people who worked on these episodes lol
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Haha, that's pretty good. I should really check those out, I used to listen to the Lost podcasts a ton back in the day.
 
Cornballer said:
Glad they finally got around to it. Will be interesting to see the details as they come together (when it airs, how many episodes, etc...) though presumably they'll stick to the usual schedule and 10 eps.

EDIT: Obligatory:

fuEakaJ.gif
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Much respect for not going the "I told ya so" route. :-)
 
I was half expecting them to renew for two more seasons with 5 being the end. Very curious about how season 4 will end regardless.
 
A bit surprised its not announced as "fourth and final"


With the way things are now its kind of hard to see them going for a 5th season without some stretching. A lot of bits are in place now. The only major thing left is writing out Kim and the rest is busy work
 
funkystudent said:
A bit surprised its not announced as "fourth and final"


With the way things are now its kind of hard to see them going for a 5th season without some stretching. A lot of bits are in place now. The only major thing left is writing out Kim and the rest is busy work
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We're only in 2003 though. We have to get all the way to 2008.
 
Question, did you guys end up preferring the direction the show went or the one we assumed would happen? I feel like most of us can say that we expected something more along the lines of Saul getting his feet wet in the criminal underworld early on and going from there, with more a more "courtroom drama"-y feel as the show Chronicles his decent (like with WW). Yet the actual "criminal law" aspects of Saul are very much downplayed in the traditional context of his role in Breaking bad- he helps out Mike here and there but that's the extent of it.
 
Azzanadra said:
Question, did you guys end up preferring the direction the show went or the one we assumed would happen? I feel like most of us can say that we expected something more along the lines of Saul getting his feet wet in the criminal underworld early on and going from there, with more a more "courtroom drama"-y feel as the show Chronicles his decent (like with WW). Yet the actual "criminal law" aspects of Saul are very much downplayed in the traditional context of his role in Breaking bad- he helps out Mike here and there but that's the extent of it.
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I like the show a lot and think this direction is interesting and ultimately more heartbreaking than what I had imagined.

In all honesty I would have preferred a much darker show with Jimmy navigating the criminal underworld as he slips further and further into the ambulance chaser Saul, rather than the tragic arc we're witnessing between him and Chuck and Kim. I didn't exactly expect Breaking Bad The Prequel, but if we're all being honest I don't think we expected this to be the slow burn drama that it's turned out to be.

I dunno. It's a good question because I love BCS as-is. It's one of the best series of all time, perhaps just behind that Mad Men/Breaking Bad/The Wire/Sopranos tier of greatness. But I can imagine another BCS, much more visceral, much more violent, much higher stakes and more suspenseful, much more DID YOU SEE WHAT I JUST SAW?? that BB became.
 
Azzanadra said:
Question, did you guys end up preferring the direction the show went or the one we assumed would happen? I feel like most of us can say that we expected something more along the lines of Saul getting his feet wet in the criminal underworld early on and going from there, with more a more "courtroom drama"-y feel as the show Chronicles his decent (like with WW). Yet the actual "criminal law" aspects of Saul are very much downplayed in the traditional context of his role in Breaking bad- he helps out Mike here and there but that's the extent of it.
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I like the show, no doubt about it.

Though I was hoping it would more about Saul and his crooked ways. I've accepted the direction they are going with.
 
funkystudent said:
A bit surprised its not announced as "fourth and final"


With the way things are now its kind of hard to see them going for a 5th season without some stretching. A lot of bits are in place now. The only major thing left is writing out Kim and the rest is busy work
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Vince probably got an assurance from AMC that he'll get to do a 5th and final one, though I'm surprised they didn't just go ahead and greenlight both of them at once and say the 5th is the last.
 
Lothar said:
The reason I think it's not splitting hairs and it's worth discussing is because some try to act like Walt didn't have an arc. The show was Mr Chips going into Scarface. It wasn't he's a monster and was always a monster. I think that's a lousy way to view the show.

The origin of this discussion was this post and it's follow up reply

I agree with Veelk and I don't think Vagabundo's view here is a good way to view the show.

It does make a difference whether someone is a bad guy (Walt in Season 1) and a monster (Walt at the end).

Totally correct. This issue was describing Walt as that in the beginning.
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I've thought about this some more as I've continued rewatching the show (started s3 last night) and what I'll say to this is I don't think Walt changes much, I think it's mostly the circumstances surrounding him that change. The stakes keep escalating but he's fundamentally no different than when he started, he just hasn't had the opportunities at the beginning that he gets later. From the very beginning of the show he hates his domestic life - he likes the ideal of being a family man because that's what he thinks masculinity is all about, providing for your family no matter the cost (even if that cost is, ironically, the cohesion of the family itself). But any time anyone questions him or holds him back in any way or he has to display some empathy, he balks and retreats to where he can feel like a big man. Dude has zero self-awareness about just what a piece of shit he is, a thing that the S3 premiere demonstrates wonderfully when he downplays the plane crash to anyone and everyone. He has no empathy at all. The entire show up to this point is a cycle of Walt doing shitty things and feeling sorry for himself afterwards. It's actually really tiresome, I think this show's kinda boring half the time because I am tired of seeing Walt go through this "exercise" as Chuck called Jimmy's cycle of remorse in the BCS finale. It feels like repetition. The domestic scenes keep following the same pattern too, between Skyler and Wal't arguments.

The difference between the shows is that BCS has much better characterization of all of its leads than Breaking Bad, which fails to invest anyone but Walt and to a lesser degree Jesse and Hank with the kind of complex and nuanced internal life to make us care. Skyler is right about everything all the time but that doesn't make her likeable or all that interesting, and this is a failure of writing.

This is kind of rambly, but the TL;DR is that Walt is a self-righteous, self-pitying sad sack from beginning to end, it's only the external circumstances that change and bring out who he was all along. Whereas I think Jimmy>Saul is actually a transformation brought about by the conflict between him and Chuck and eventually the loss of Chuck and (we assume) Kim, and I think there is MUCH more meat on those bones in terms of moral and psychological nuance.
 
Just watched this last night and damn what an ending. I hate Chuck but will miss his character, and McKean really is a great actor. I guess we will get more into full Saul Goodman type stuff in season 4, as the law firm story seems to be finished.
 
Human Trashcan said:
Dude has zero self-awareness about just what a piece of shit he is, a thing that the S3 premiere demonstrates wonderfully when he downplays the plane crash to anyone and everyone. He has no empathy at all.
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Hmm. I thought that showed the opposite. He was saying things while giving that speech that he didn't feel or believe in order to convince himself so he could live with it. It was like he was giving a speech to himself. Earlier he was so upset that he was burning all of his money for a few moments. I'm curious what you think when you get to Fly. Because there you get his true feelings. He's no longer hiding anything or trying to act tough and in control. His true feelings are that he wished he would have died before going to Jane's house.

The stakes keep escalating but he's fundamentally no different than when he started
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I don't understand this. Compare how he acts when deciding what to do about Crazy 8 and how he acts at any time in Season 5. The change is the pitch of the show. It's the most remarkable thing about the show. Gilligan said in the podcast that sometimes they wanted to re-use old unused footage of Walt doing a certain thing and they couldn't because Bryan Cranston acted so differently as Walt. Every episode was a transformation in baby steps. He stood up straighter, looked people in the eye more..

Sure he was an asshole in the beginning. I wouldn't have wanted him to be one of my teachers. But that's a far cry from what he became. I wouldn't want any of my asshole teachers to get sick. I'd root for them to beat their sickness. In Season 5, you're probably hoping Walt gets sick.
 
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