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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]

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Archie said:
-Pick item independent heroes while learning (Lich, Dazzle, Crystal Maiden, etc)
-Be sure the team has a courier
-Buy wards when possible for vision
-Have map awareness and call missing heroes
-Never buy boots first
-Don't mindlessly auto attack creeps in the laning phase
-Press A + click on your own creep to deny it
-Play bot matches to get familiar with the UI, etc
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That reminds me, is there a list of all heroes that still do well Item Dependent? Or can I just grab all the Int Heroes and toss in the Strength Casters + VS?


Oh, since I was reading Lore/Ability Details while waiting an hour to get a hold taken off at school, two small things I found interesting. One, Venomancer is Technically a Human. Two, Pudge's hooks go though Siege Creeps, so feel free to lure your enemy into false security as they to hide behind the Siege Unit.
 
I'd say that the only item independent heroes (as in, they are nearly as effective naked compared to having a ton of gold) in the pool right now are Vengful Spirit, Lich, Tidehunter (to a degree. Blink is still core, but the massive range of his ultimate makes it less necessary compared to ES/SK/Enigma), Chen, Dazzle, Crystal Maiden and Lion.
 
What about people like Witch Doctor, Ancient Apparition, Dazzle, Warlock, and Shadow Shaman? Do they need items to make up for something they lack? Those are other heroes that I often see played item independent (At least in pubs)
 
I was thinking of all the heroes off the top of my head, but:

Dazzle, Witch Doctor, AA, Warlock? Yes.

Shadow Shaman? Not so much. He is a hardcore ganker/pusher and really benefits from having bottle, Mana Boots, blink and BKB. Support Shaman is possible, but I feel it is a waste of a hero pick.
In before someone points out that Chinese pros run Support Shaman all the time
 
Quick Question, Soul Ring doesn't have some odd exception along the lines of "Does not apply to mana over time upkeep", right? And that Witch Doctor's Voodoo Restoration taking from your main mana pool first instead of Soul Ring is in fact a bug.
 
Conceptor said:
9:23 AM - Meteorain: i was playing some shadowblade yesterday
9:23 AM - Meteorain: i had farmed a helm
9:23 AM - Meteorain: about 10 mins later
9:23 AM - Meteorain: i fucking dropped it on the ground mid fight
9:23 AM - Meteorain: and the enemy took it!

Didn't know that ancient spawns can be stacked up to a max 4 times, neat. Always thought it was 3 lol
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Still carried though :)

Mofo Con, can't trust you with anything damn Frenchie.
 
I feel like I'm decent with almost every hero but Beast Master.

I just don't see the appeal. Wild Axes do a lot of damage, but cost a lot of mana on a STR hero. While ganking a lot of heroes with disables and escapes can get away. Why play BM when you could play Nightstalker?

And late game he is just crappy. I try looking for games to watch him in, but it doesn't seem like anyone plays him.
 
I found him kind of fun when I randomed him for the first time - once I realized the absolutely ridiculous range of his stun, he went from "ugh" to "neat" - but I'm just so horrendously awful at micromanaging that I don't think I'll ever voluntarily play him. I kept blocking myself with the boar thing when trying to run away or chase people down.

At the basic level, assigning and using control groups doesn't really seem that hard, but I've never been able to really take hold of that concept and use it well. \:

I agree that it seems like no one really plays him, though. I think he'd make a fine ganker (and isn't limited by time of day as is Nightstalker), but I, personally, have had better luck with playing others. Including mid Dazzle. Rock. :3
 
Rookje said:
I feel like I'm decent with almost every hero but Beast Master.

I just don't see the appeal. Wild Axes do a lot of damage, but cost a lot of mana on a STR hero. While ganking a lot of heroes with disables and escapes can get away. Why play BM when you could play Nightstalker?

And late game he is just crappy. I try looking for games to watch him in, but it doesn't seem like anyone plays him.
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Ulti stun goes through BKB, nice attack speed aura, nice AoE nuke (push/anti-push) and really strong summons (bird that gives amazing map control and boar with slow on his attacks). He's an amazing hero, but new players might not be able use his summons properly. Bottle is enough for the mana problems if you keep an eye for rune spawns with your bird.
 
Axes: Fairly good range, nukes everything in their path (twice, on the way out and back in), clears trees speedily.

Call of the Wild: Hawk makes scouting out your flanks (nothing can hide in the trees or uphill if the hawk is near) and runes dead simple , and the Boar can harass from range or slow down fleeing enemies.

The combination of the two above skills make it very hard to sneak up on or juke a Beastmaster, he's an excellent positional player and chaser.

His late game is hardly crappy. Armed with a Bottle and a Necronomicon, his mana becomes less of an issue, and his Necro units can mana burn enemies and see invis units and wards.

Primal Roar: It goes through BKB and it goes through Repel, which can be a huge advantage in lategame. Big channeled ults like Pudge's, Enigma's, Sand King's, etc are all exceedingly vulnerable to this. It lasts four seconds at max level, which is practically an eternity, and it does damage both to the target and to targets in the immediate proximity.

The attack speed aura can prove useful as well, depending on your team composition.

Davidion said:
You stick with us and we'll spoon feed you the creeps til you're nice and fat.

In that first void game of yours where Milk was CM I got scared shitless by the shadow fiend roaming ganking while I was Furion. I was so nervous that I sprouted our tinker instead of the sven that I was trying to gank.

But I recall trying to feed you when in lane. In reality while having two jungle heroes isn't a good thing, there should be enough flexibility for the jungle to not be shared. Void's jungling should probably take precedence over a Furion's in most cases, unless there's some kind of a hard push strat involved.
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Yes, that first game had a ton of space and time for me to farm, it was lovely and I've no complaints. Shadow Fiend did worry me a little, but his one sojourn into our jungle kinda laid that concern to rest (I saw him come in by one of our wards, I acted like I didn't know he was there, then reversed my course with a Timewalk when Milkman hit him with a Frostbite. He died pretty darn fast).
 
Gez said:
Don't understand why you guys play salthouses when clearly its a salt factory.

Teams are never fair between newbies and vets, never go Captains mode and people take it way too seriously and get angry over the mic as if they are playing for 1million dollars.
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Yeah I had my first and last experiences playing in GAF IH this past weekend. The games were way less interesting than standard pub games and I haven't heard that much mic rage since the first time I played HoN. Just like HoN asshats, no one is helpful or instructional its just full on RAAAAAAAGE.

I don't see the point in these matches if they're just gonna be 1 sided blood baths where no one helps the noobs like me get better.
 
Did you ask for help?

Most of the people I see complaining about getting no help (in an IH or out), never actually asked for it.
 
bluemax said:
Yeah I had my first and last experiences playing in GAF IH this past weekend. The games were way less interesting than standard pub games and I haven't heard that much mic rage since the first time I played HoN. Just like HoN asshats, no one is helpful or instructional its just full on RAAAAAAAGE.

I don't see the point in these matches if they're just gonna be 1 sided blood baths where no one helps the noobs like me get better.
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I ask for advice on new heroes all the time, and someone's always willing to give it, even if they're not on my team.
 
Ikuu said:
Did you ask for help?

Most of the people I see complaining about getting no help (in an IH or out), never actually asked for it.
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Other than asking where to place wards, no. I understand the basic mechanics of the genre and I had played the champ I picked a few times before so I'm not completely lost. But I got raged at for my skill build (with no explanation) and other stuff as well. If the default reaction is rage then why would I expect that asking questions would actually do any good?


Togglesworlh said:
I ask for advice on new heroes all the time, and someone's always willing to give it, even if they're not on my team.
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Cool well, maybe I just played with asshole GAF then. Even ignoring the rage my skill level after about 15 matches is clearly not up to par so I think I'll avoid being cannon fodder for raging dicks and hope that match making places me with other clueless noobs instead.
 
it will, and then everybody on your team will be equally unable to figure out what they should be doing. It'll reinforce bad habits and not teach you the things you need to play at higher levels.

Or you could ask for help in an IH when you're out of your depth.
 
Because asking questions and letting people know you are new will most likely lead to them treating you differently.
 
All told, I think I prefer Faceless Void to all the other hard carries I've dabbled with. I like the skillset, the last hitting feels fluid and easy to grasp, and Chronosphere's impact on teamfight positioning comes more naturally to me than, say, Antimage's right-click and pop ult sort of style.
 
Botolf said:
All told, I think I prefer Faceless Void to all the other hard carries I've dabbled with. I like the skillset, the last hitting feels fluid and easy to grasp, and Chronosphere's impact on teamfight positioning comes more naturally to me than, say, Antimage's right-click and pop ult sort of style.
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because he has one of the highest level 1 base damages in the game. He is pretty fun to play, especially backtracking big nukes.
 
yeah if you're new, people are usually more tolerant of your mistakes. but when you make a terrible mistake when you're sanjay or archie, course you gotta rage on them.
 
Ikuu said:
Did you ask for help?

Most of the people I see complaining about getting no help (in an IH or out), never actually asked for it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there are a few things you should know for gafhouses.

1. If you are new, STATE THAT YOU ARE NEW ASAP.
2. Ask questions, and a lot of them, especially if you are new. How should I build this guy? What items should I get? Where should I lane?
*2a. Be aware that some people don't exactly give the best advice (due to lack of experience), but for the most part, no one is particularly out to troll you. Most players have good intentions when trying to inform.
3. GAFhouses vary wildly in skill levels. Play and identify the different skill levels between players. As more people get in, we'll be able to separate newbies and vets. Keep this in mind. I don't mind sitting out if it means it'll be a better game for everyone else overall, just ask. Usually I sit when there aren't enough players to get a game going, or if I haven't played in several games.
4. There are certain players you should look out for if you're a new player joining inhouses. Note that the following list is not comprehensive, nor for the negative groups does it mean the players listed aren't fun to play with or cool people in general. It's just something to keep in mind if you're looking for help or looking to not get yelled at. And this is all from my own experience, I can't see how they act when they're on the opposite team.

Most salty/ragey players: rac, n0b, iA.termyte, iA.fragnat, kapura, Gezza, PuppetYuber
Most common throwers: HyunA, Sanjay
Most pleasant players: Botolf, kagete, Phandy
Most helpful: ksan!, Archie, Ikuu, DrKirby (even if he makes a lot of mistakes)
Most hilarious to listen to on mumble: Archie vs Neki vs Kagete, rac, Meteorain vs Sanjay
Most likely to call you Archie when you aren't Archie: Lirlond
 
Yeah some people in the IHs get ragey, while some are very helpful. Salthouses happen mostly when the teams are unbalanced, which given the presence of pros who are prone to singlehandedly lopsiding the game will happen a lot. You shouldn't judge all IHs that way though, it's not really a training ground but rather just a place of relative familiarity.

If you want to learn, best to borrow someone who knows the basic and play some bot or private practice matches. Really, if you're new and prone to making a lot of costly mistakes, you don't want to play in games where your teammates' priority is to win.
 
Artanisix said:
Most salty/ragey players: rac, n0b, iA.termyte, iA.fragnat, kapura, Gezza, PuppetYuber
Most common throwers: HyunA, Sanjay
Most pleasant players: Botolf, kagete, Phandy
Most helpful: ksan!, Archie, Ikuu, DrKirby (even if he makes a lot of mistakes)
Most hilarious to listen to on mumble: Archie vs Neki vs Kagete, rac, Meteorain vs Sanjay
Most likely to call you Archie when you aren't Archie: Lirlond
Most likely to be found in a trashcan: PuppetYuber
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Added one you probably forgot.
 
woah hold on, i play one in house and leave as soon as I know it's over and I'm suddenly one of the ragiest players? I demand a recount.
 
Was it Tomat? Shit, it mighta been. I always mix up Tomat and Kapura.

Either way the point of the list isn't to SULLY YOUR GREAT NAME. It's just a very basic outline of players to look for when you're new to inhouses. And Sanjay, I only mean it in the sense that you have very exquisite item builds. Like I said, doesn't mean I don't like playing with you or you aren't a cool person. You're fun to have on my team, but Drow Ranger with vanguard is gonna raise a few eyebrows.
 
Perhaps "most amazing throws" would be more accurate.
 
This is making me wanna play some IH so bad. We should try for one tonight (before really late, usa time sux!)
I'm glad I'm perceived as pleasant. I think its because I get all my rage out from when I play MM with my friends. GAFih are just pretty jokey/fun to me.
 
bluemax said:
Yeah I had my first and last experiences playing in GAF IH this past weekend. The games were way less interesting than standard pub games and I haven't heard that much mic rage since the first time I played HoN. Just like HoN asshats, no one is helpful or instructional its just full on RAAAAAAAGE.

I don't see the point in these matches if they're just gonna be 1 sided blood baths where no one helps the noobs like me get better.
Click to expand...

I feel like a lot of the Dota/HoN/LoL or any esport gaming community pubs have never played a real-life team sport before competitively. There is an overwhelming tendency to dwell on small mistakes for entire matches. You'd never see this type of behavior in real life team sports, even in pickup games. Doesn't matter what sport... you might make a bad play and someone will say something like, "bro, you know you should have passed it back there and not went for it right?" and you'd respond, "yeah I thought I had it, next time i'll pass" and that's the end of it. You'll never get someone screaming "PASS THE FUCKING BALL NOOB! WTF DID YOU JUST INSTALL BASKETBALL?? LEAVE WE'LL PLAY 4v5" and then go the entire match complaining about how bad you are. There is barely ever a comment like "zues, don't max static field first next time you play, try the 2nd skill instead it'll work better"... instead it's "wow, worst fucking skill build zues..you fucking retard...gg...etc. blah blah " Kinda makes me sad to be into esports when this is common sportsmanship.
 
Cheeto said:
I feel like a lot of the Dota/HoN/LoL or any esport gaming community pubs have never played a real-life team sport before competitively. There is an overwhelming tendency to dwell on small mistakes for entire matches. You'd never see this type of behavior in real life team sports, even in pickup games. Doesn't matter what sport... you might make a bad play and someone will say something like, "bro, you know you should have passed it back there and not went for it right?" and you'd respond, "yeah I thought I had it, next time i'll pass" and that's the end of it. You'll never get someone screaming "PASS THE FUCKING BALL NOOB! WTF DID YOU JUST INSTALL BASKETBALL?? LEAVE WE'LL PLAY 4v5" and then go the entire match complaining about how bad you are. There is barely ever a comment like "zues, don't max static field first next time you play, try the 2nd skill instead it'll work better"... instead it's "wow, worst fucking skill build zues..you fucking retard...gg...etc. blah blah " Kinda makes me sad to be into esports when this is common sportsmanship.
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I always did say DotA is basically nerd football.

Also, in defense of the ragers (not sure why I'm doing this) the difference between DotA and sports is that doing poorly in popular sports doesn't directly strengthen the opponent's position in the game while damaging your own, which just about translates to exponentially reducing your team's competitiveness within the context of the game you're in.

But I do agree with you for the most part. Nerd football, tag it.
 
Cheeto said:
I feel like a lot of the Dota/HoN/LoL or any esport gaming community pubs have never played a real-life team sport before competitively. There is an overwhelming tendency to dwell on small mistakes for entire matches. You'd never see this type of behavior in real life team sports, even in pickup games. Doesn't matter what sport... you might make a bad play and someone will say something like, "bro, you know you should have passed it back there and not went for it right?" and you'd respond, "yeah I thought I had it, next time i'll pass" and that's the end of it. You'll never get someone screaming "PASS THE FUCKING BALL NOOB! WTF DID YOU JUST INSTALL BASKETBALL?? LEAVE WE'LL PLAY 4v5" and then go the entire match complaining about how bad you are. There is barely ever a comment like "zues, don't max static field first next time you play, try the 2nd skill instead it'll work better"... instead it's "wow, worst fucking skill build zues..you fucking retard...gg...etc. blah blah " Kinda makes me sad to be into esports when this is common sportsmanship.
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Internet anonymity. The shit people say would usual get them beatup in real life
 
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