I still feel TB is a really weak carry if Metamorphosis is not active. Aside from the skill having a very long cooldown (140s), you still need to come near an opponent to cast Sunder or cast your slow. He is also very item reliant and has no real escape mechanism. Chances of him being picked in CM are really slim due to how fast paced games are nowadays. Still my favorite though.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dota 2 |OT3| #BetterThenEllenPudge
- Thread starter Artanisix
- Start date
- Status
Why are people badmouthing BKB on him? Lets him do so much of his right-click and lifesteal hullabaloo, and negates nearly all spell damage throughout. You would think those things desirable on someone so glassy.
Because it's really situational. I only buy it if the opposing team has multiple disables and that also varies on the stage of the game. Buying survivability items in the form of Manta or EoS earlier not only boosts your own damage and EHP but your illusions as well. Also, most people tend to forget that you can cast Sunder on your illusions if they are able to remain alive in a teamfight. It's a much better option than risking your life trying to sunder a high HP enemy.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'm not doubting it was horrible but you really couldn't send anyone else mid?
He waited forever for a hero he's bad with?
A kindred spirit.
Anywho, thanks Zephyx and 1.09 for providing some reasoning.
neurosisxeno
Member
TB while pushing with a Manta alone ends up with 6 copies of himself. I would say he's just as Illusion-y as Naga.
my tb is fkn ownage bro would never get 3-0'd by @inkdota meepo
but yeah i agree with 109 bkb on TB is just like bkb on 70% of carries--it's that item you kinda never want to buy cause of the awful stats and item slot, but at the same time if you're playing against a team with invoker + 2 sheepsticks + multiple stuns, you might just have to bite the bullet for the win.
BKB isn't core on him like it is on say SF and Luna, but he is by no means as appalled by it as say naga or PL. I usually don't find the need for it on tb though, you get so tanky with items like manta + skadii + bfly. Hell, you could even go heart.
my go to tb build has been treads --> aquila ---> radiance ---> manta ---> skadii ----> bfly. Though he's pretty flexible, I feel if you're crushing you should go radiance to just completely dominate--suck the farm out of the map and your illusions will be even more nightmarish for supports (and they are already pretty scary without radiance). If you're in a close game or a losing game, something like drums --> yasha --> manta/skadii is probably better.
2 illusions where one lasts for only 16 seconds, +2 manta = 4 illusions.
naga with manta = 5 illusions, and naga's illusions are alot tankier, and benefit from being able to riptide.
The fact is naga and pl's illusions are much more reliable, and are the main source of the hero's damage, whereas tb's main source of dmg should be from himself, and tb wants to be close to the fight for reflection and sunder.
Very seldom in a real fight will you have 2 metamorphosis'd illusions up, because you save meta for a teamfight, then split, then manta. So you only have 3 illusions, all of which take 300% damage
naga with manta = 5 illusions, and naga's illusions are alot tankier, and benefit from being able to riptide.
The fact is naga and pl's illusions are much more reliable, and are the main source of the hero's damage, whereas tb's main source of dmg should be from himself, and tb wants to be close to the fight for reflection and sunder.
Very seldom in a real fight will you have 2 metamorphosis'd illusions up, because you save meta for a teamfight, then split, then manta. So you only have 3 illusions, all of which take 300% damage
Lanes were
Top: Rubick and Sven (clan tags and refused to lane anywhere else)
Jungle: Lone Druid (also spanish, ignored everyone all game)
Mid: CM
Bot: Alch (me)
The only thing i could have done was gone mid as Alch, but then CM would have been solo bot vs Mirana + Dark Seer
So... i dunno
balladofwindfishes
Member
I got some Shaman Wards and some other strange pagoda looking ward as my offering reward. I thought the latter ward was unused?
Not bad for only offering 2 rows of commons/uncommons and 1 rare.
Not bad for only offering 2 rows of commons/uncommons and 1 rare.
That moment when you think the game is hopeless after your bloodseeker that calls everyone on his team noobs feeds the enemy team by diving 1v5 the moment one of those 5 is less then 50% hp, that Faceless void who is getting wrecked because he kept tower diving with less then 10% hp...
...And then your medusa finishes farming, carries your team and still gives you credit for saving her life a couple times with shallow grave.
Those are the best type of comebacks.
...And then your medusa finishes farming, carries your team and still gives you credit for saving her life a couple times with shallow grave.
Those are the best type of comebacks.
Green Biker Dude
Banned
is linkens good on terrorblade, after a yasha for example
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Shit yeah man
Linkens isn't really bad an any hero--I think it's more a matter of if there are better items you should be getting for your hero late game. Eye of Skadi, Butterfly and Daedelus seem like better options overall, but it also depends on if you're getting stunned or nuked constantly.
No, I don't think so. You're better off building a manta or EoS for that orb for the additional pushing power/illusion "orb effect". If you really need the spell block, go full BKB instead. The mana and health regen, and spell block do not benefit your illusions. Linkens is also expensive for its benefits to your hero and you are better off building other items to strengthen your presence in a teamfight.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/538981471
Maybe I just have bad luck with Anti-Mage. Minute 50 rolls around, we haven't lost any rax yet. We lose a teamfight, still lose no rax on it.
Shadow Friend calls "gg noob team" and leaves and doesn't come back! We lost because that fucking idiot left and we had a chance at winning! God the fucking people in matchmaking I swear to god.
Maybe I just have bad luck with Anti-Mage. Minute 50 rolls around, we haven't lost any rax yet. We lose a teamfight, still lose no rax on it.
Shadow Friend calls "gg noob team" and leaves and doesn't come back! We lost because that fucking idiot left and we had a chance at winning! God the fucking people in matchmaking I swear to god.
Just played viper, hardest I've carried in ages. Finished the game with a rampage, feels good man: http://dotabuff.com/matches/538981200
TBH I just don't play AM unless 5 stacked. He has one of the lowest winrates for pubs.
But like, it was a totally winnable game and AM wasn't the problem. Shadow Fiend leaving was.
Krauser Kat
Member
played my third pub game. my team went 4 hard carries so instead of huskar i went CM which i never played before. Every time i joined a lane, we ended up rolling right over the team. This poor zeus kept getting in my way. Every time he froze, he never made it out alive, though the build i had was running low on mana the whole time until i bought a soul ring.
Schweinehund
Member
Crappy stuff for second offering, probalby because it was 90% chests. Still one mythical (rubick back piece), 3-4 rares, one nametag.
SteveWinwood
Member
I was able to avoid it once using Puck's phase shift. I was never able to repeat it. :|
Nirvana
Member
BKB isn't trash if you need it. His biggest issue is his strength gain, nukes and stuns destroy TB, whereas he can stand up to right clicks with his high base armour. BKB is the obvious choice when they have a lot of disables, especially if they have a Lion or Lina who can just ulti you before you get sunder off; you are asking to lose if you don't get one against these heroes.
Linkens is, I feel, situational like most with most heroes who pick it up. If they have a Bat, Doom or Bane focusing you, it would be a good pickup, but I don't think it's core in any way.
People need to stop relying on Sunder and pretending it makes him any different to another right-clicking carry. It's a nice ability to have and has its uses, but you have to be so close to an enemy to get it off that if they have the magic burst you are likely going to get stunned and blown up before that happens. His biggest weakness is that his teamfight is pretty shitty. You generally want to get two illusions up in metamorphosis before a fight so you do some real damage, but once they are killed you only have right clicks to offer; it's usually fairly hard to get your slow or sunder off, because by now most players know to stay the hell away from you.
Suck it up and buy a BKB if you have to, it's necessary in a lot of situations.
Also poor man's shield makes you almost invincible against support harass early and the extra agi makes last hitting slightly easier, really love that item on TB and Riki.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Unless you have an idiotic teammate.
Not really. You can cast it on your ally or your own illusion. That's why you have to make your illusions tankier as damage and distraction are not their only purposes in a teamfight.
BKB is situational at best. It's an obvious choice if there are multiple disables. Otherwise, I skip it and go for the better TB items.
Much excuse
ToyMachine228
Member
Every time I've ever played Viper I wreck. But it's so boring. The skills are ridiculously good but also very unsatisfying.
Go watch that game and tell me that. and no I'm not talking about the enigma.
Well, while your OD made some bad imprisions, you didn't have to bunch up to allow axe to taunt half your team and both carries.
God Enel
Member
Uhhhhh, what? Are we even talking about the same game? There wasn't an OD or Axe in it...
I wasn't talking about that game. I was talking about this one.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/538981471
YO LEGIT, this is very important:
can someone make me a jedi ember spirit mod? I will reimburse you with many keys.
how good would that be like ember looks like anakin skywalker (maybe have like a darth vader skin, a yoda skin, or a luke skin how awesome is that seriously), and when he tp's he spins his lightsaber around like anakin when fighting obi wan in that one scene in revenge of the sith on mustafar during the final battle. and then you everytime he sleights he jumps around like yoda and u hear lightsaber noises, then when he jumps to a spirit remnant it's like force charge, bolas is force paralyze/stasis, and flameguard is force barrier u feelin me right now how legit would this be ???
just watch this and replace obi wan with storm spirit and anakin with ember spirit, PICTURE IT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI
can someone make me a jedi ember spirit mod? I will reimburse you with many keys.
how good would that be like ember looks like anakin skywalker (maybe have like a darth vader skin, a yoda skin, or a luke skin how awesome is that seriously), and when he tp's he spins his lightsaber around like anakin when fighting obi wan in that one scene in revenge of the sith on mustafar during the final battle. and then you everytime he sleights he jumps around like yoda and u hear lightsaber noises, then when he jumps to a spirit remnant it's like force charge, bolas is force paralyze/stasis, and flameguard is force barrier u feelin me right now how legit would this be ???
just watch this and replace obi wan with storm spirit and anakin with ember spirit, PICTURE IT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI
Why have 10 million people watched this?
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
He shouldn't talk about retired people that way.
- Status