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DOTA2 |OT15| anime only please

R

rac

Banned
hot take from the overwatch thread

fps have 10x the depth of a point and click 2d game

did I get trolled?
 
K

kionedrik

Member
rac said:
hot take from the overwatch thread

fps have 10x the depth of a point and click 2d game

did I get trolled?
Click to expand...

What if your P&C is played in first person, like Myst?

Serious question, depends on the definition of depth. Either way I'd never say overwatch has a very deep gameplay design or loop.

edit: lol, apparently dota is a P&C game.... these fucking kids these days...
 
I

inkls

Member
rac said:
ill just link you the post and you can figure it out

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220063223&postcount=10408
Click to expand...


I was just joking. But looking at the post I don't agree. If you want to talk about depth in terms of number permutations then I can't see how an fps would have more variables.

You'll have the general positioning and accuracy, not to mention map knowledge or knowing combos with weapons and grenade placement (in fps where applicable).


There's the general knowledge you have regardless of what hero you play in DotA like map awareness, farming patterns, positioning, itemization, knowing how things interact together, creep equilibrium, stacking, rotating, etc.

Then you have hero specific knowledge. I'll take my favorite hero as an example: storm spirit.

You have the basic stuff when you learn to play the hero, how to be mana efficient, not waste overload proc's at early levels.

Then you learn more stuff like, using ult to disjoint projectiles, the zip down a lane that's being pushed while tp'ing to slow a push, how to deal with lane counters how to itemize against them if needed. Remnant positioning when not using electric vortex, using remnant vision to see enemies coming.

You can combo the hero with other heroes: omniknight repel, naix bomb, kotl chairs magic, kunkka x marks the spot, etc.

Use ult to destroy treant trees when he has aghs without needing to use a slot for quelling or battlefury.

Those are just the ones off the top of my head. Not all heroes have the same complexity, some are simpler, some are more complex and not in the same way.

Meepo has his own set of mechanics and interactions that wouldn't apply to storm.

People like to joke that DotA requires a PhD to understand not just because of the obscure stuff but also because of all the mechanics and interactions. There's ton of different possible team compositions for your own team and the enemy's.

Look at kunkka + kotl. Normally echo saber would be garbage on kunkka, but with chakra magic it means double tidebringer.

Heck there's even power spikes or team timing. Heroes aren't static. Some of them are made to dominate the early, mid or late game. Or start having a big impact after a certain item. Item timing, why is a 4 min midas impressive and why is it even more impressive if it was on an offlaner against a trilane?

What about team comps made for different purposes. Early game comp, greedy comp, rat, pickoff, team fight, cool down reliant, etc. The win condition is blowing up the ancient but how you do it is up to you.


Unless the post you quoted was joking, its an embarrassing post. Anyone with a basic grasp of multiplication would be able to see that even stripping out items the amount of different team combinations already would be much greater than what 22 heroes could offer.
 
D

Deleted member 77995

Unconfirmed Member
Is Overwatch solo queue comparable to Dota solo queue?
 
K

KingKong

Member
inkls said:
I was just joking. But looking at the post I don't agree. If you want to talk about depth in terms of number permutations then I can't see how an fps would have more variables.
.
Click to expand...

right but those are all basically the same type of 'skill', and you can't really say that knowing hundreds of hero combinations and quirks is more or less difficult than being able to outaim the enemy AWPer in counterstrike or control the map in Q3
 
I

inkls

Member
KingKong said:
right but those are all basically the same type of 'skill', and you can't really say that knowing hundreds of hero combinations and quirks is more or less difficult than being able to outaim the enemy AWPer in counterstrike or control the map in Q3
Click to expand...

There's general knowledge and theres hero specific knowledge like I wrote in my post. Knowing it is not a skill, being able to execute it well is. Same applies to an fps.

Like I said, there's basic stuff in DotA that applies to all heroes, but while heroes like storm, Meepo, etc can be considered complex, knowing how to play one doesn't make you good at the other.

During one game executing combo isn't a constant either only based on positioning. The enemy changes. what if they have magic immunity, more HP, more magic resist, counter initiation, etc?


But putting that aside that doesn't invalidate my other points either.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not claiming fps games require no skill or have no depth. I'm just saying that claiming that overwatch has 10 times the depth of DotA as a justification for it having less competitive diversity is a joke.
 
T

Twookie

Member
good god, envy is having a rough rough ROUGH game

also i might be wrong, but the new omniknight skin infused kinda looks his pose is kinda hunched over? looks weird
 
B

bbd23

Member
team liquid
sick.gif
sick.gif
 
W

woodland

Member
Is there anywhere to check Dota 2 playerbase info (daily) apart from Steam Stats/Steam Charts? Looking into some time-period based statistics and didn't see any of this on DatDota/Dotabuff/OpenDota (though I don't use them much, so I may have missed it).

Thanks!
 
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