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DOTA2 |OT15| anime only please
- Thread starter Artanisix
- Start date
neurosisxeno
Member
Liquid deserves it. No way they don't get the direct invite to Kiev imo.
Monochromaticx
Member
at least they finally actually attended a LAN
So when can we expect Valve to announce the Kiev invites?
And what is everyone predicting?
I was thinking 10 invited teams and then 1 qualifier for each region but I really don't know if there are 10 teams that deserve an invite.
I guess this could be a possibility: EG, DC, NP, OG, Liquid, VP, Wings, VG.J, Newbee, Faceless.
And what is everyone predicting?
I was thinking 10 invited teams and then 1 qualifier for each region but I really don't know if there are 10 teams that deserve an invite.
I guess this could be a possibility: EG, DC, NP, OG, Liquid, VP, Wings, VG.J, Newbee, Faceless.
neurosisxeno
Member
No way VG.J and Faceless get direct invites to Kiev. I also doubt NP gets one. Valve will likely do 8 invites, I'm guessing; OG, Liquid, EG, DC, Ad Finem, Wings, Newbee, VP.
Gives some up and coming teams a chance to clear the Qualifiers and gets most of the top teams from each region in there.
Gives some up and coming teams a chance to clear the Qualifiers and gets most of the top teams from each region in there.
Sigismundo
Member
Ad Finem haven't actually done anything since Boston and Faceless came top 3 at Dotapit. I'd say they're a bigger chance than AF.
In that case how will the qualifiers get divided up? Will they do wild cards?
neurosisxeno
Member
I completely agree, but they got second at Boston and haven't changed their lineup at all. Those are major points in their favor.
I think they'll do 8 invites. Then for Qualifiers 1 NA, 2 China, 1 SEA, 1 SA, 1 CIS, 2 EU. No Wild Cards. Or maybe they'll do 6 invites, those qualifier numbers, and 2 wild cards.
Sigismundo
Member
They might have kept their roster as is but the game has changed a lot since Boston. I wouldn't compare AF very favourably to teams like C9 or Bears in the EU qualifiers, let alone teams that get a direct invite (apart from DC who have looked a bit shit lately).
shira
Member
I think it's easier if they do it like this
Boston Invites (Total)
NA 2(4)
EU 1(3)
CN 4(6)*
SEA 1(3)*
*Execration no visa, replaced with LGDFY
Boston Results
NA 3, 4, 5, last
EU 1, 2, 5
CN 5, last, last, last, last, last
SEA 5, last, last
Kiev Direct 10
NA (2): EG, DC
EU (3): OG, AF, Liquid
CN (3): Wings, VGJ, Newbee
SEA (1): TNC
+ VP/NP/C9/FL
Kiev Qualifiers 6
NA (1)
SA (1)
EU (1)
CIS (1)
CN (1)
SEA (1)
neurosisxeno
Member
I find it really unlikely that NP gets a direct invite over DC. They have played on par with DC, but DC regularly has finished well at Valve tournaments and did win ESL One Genting where as NP hasn't won a LAN to date. The only CIS team that looks like they might be decent is VP, outside of that Empire looks pretty Tier 2 at best. I think VP gets an invite just because it's in Kiev though.
I don't see Faceless or TNC getting a direct invite. Neither team has done much, TNC placed 3rd/4th at SL, but that was mostly because they played iG.V and Team Secret--neither of whom are that good. Newbee and Wings will get the China invite, undoubtedly. Wings is regularly a Tier 1 team, where as VGJ has just recently placed okay in a tournament.
Na'vi got the direct invite for TI6 based off less. Or the time Valve invited MUFC to an event and they proceeded to lose all 17 matches they played.
yeah i put np over dc just because i support them more, they're very close atm but didn't np recently beat dc 2-1 into some main event? i forgot what
if you don't see faceless nor tnc getting an invite then you might as well be saying sea is not getting even 1 invite, you should know by now valve wants at least 1 team invited from each region
shira
Member
Yeah for DAC, but their results in Boston and TI6 prolly trump whatever np has done.
neurosisxeno
Member
NP beat DC 2-0 to qualify for DAC. It's only the past month or so that DC has been struggling, but remember that they looked pretty mediocre going into TI6, and almost nobody had them going to the finals. I get that Valve wants it to be international, but SEA just doesn't have the talent. It would be like inviting a South American team just to say you did. TNC and Faceless are likely to get dumpstered in the first round and will be lucky to finish in the middle of their groups.
Honestly if it were my call I would only invite like 4 teams and then do a majority of the picks via qualifiers. The only teams I think should have guaranteed invites are OG, Liquid, Newbee, and EG. The rest haven't been consistent enough to justify an invite. Teams that come through the qualifiers have a pretty good track record the past year or so of Valve events. I think being forced to qualify pushes them to practice more and results in a higher level of play.
NormalFish
Banned
People shit on the weaker regions before every major tournament, and they rarely bomb out like people say.
I move that all armchair analysis should be accompanied by your qualifications including degrees in statistics, time spent playing, mmr, IQ, and duration of time spent shitposting in this thread.
I move that all armchair analysis should be accompanied by your qualifications including degrees in statistics, time spent playing, mmr, IQ, and duration of time spent shitposting in this thread.
neurosisxeno
Member
Faceless won 0 matches at the Boston Major, and that event was basically the event for underdog teams. AF making it to the Grand Finals and getting thrashed by OG is pretty indicative of that. WGU beat a shaky Wings in the Group, then lost to Wings and DC 2-0, before facing a mediocre coL and taking a game off OG. TNC won WESG, a tournament that was exclusively tier 2-3 teams (and C9) and other than that just wrapped up StarLadder where they beat iG.V and Team Secret--both of whom are pretty bad--before getting absolutely manhandled by Liquid.
SEA hasn't really been a competitive region since MVP.P and Fnatic fell apart. Faceless and TNC are probably the top 2 in the region, but after that it's like a cliff before you hit another competent team (Mineski and WGU I guess?). It's basically how NA was until about 9 months ago--you had EG and DC, and then coL notably behind them followed by a cliff until you got to mediocre teams like Team Freedom and whatever clown ass NA stack was relevant. Now at the least you have EG, DC, NP with teams like Onyx, Wanted, and coL easily vying to move up. I would take a team like coL over Mineski any day.
neurosisxeno
Member
It depends on the hero really. You're going to prioritize different camps as Axe than you do as Doom, or someone like LC or Lifestealer. It depends on the creep spawns as well.
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
Please don't jungle lifestealer
didnt your buddy do jungle lifestealer last night in that divine rapier PA game lol?
neurosisxeno
Member
I'm not advocating anyone do it, but I also think a dedicated jungler in this meta is almost guaranteed to fuck over your team and lead to a loss.
LucidMomentum
Member
I only jungle if my team was dumb enough to pick greedy cores / carries that vacuum up all the other farm.
Then I split push and it works somehow.
But yeah, this doesn't seem like a good meta for a jungle role, TBH. Better to use the camps to pull and stack and then build up more of a lead for your team, IMO.
Then I split push and it works somehow.
But yeah, this doesn't seem like a good meta for a jungle role, TBH. Better to use the camps to pull and stack and then build up more of a lead for your team, IMO.
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
He also builds dagon right after bots on tinker with no blink or soul ring and usually sells bottle to afford the dagon but I hold my tongue.
Thanks all so much for the replies, what specifically is the problem with jungling in this patch then? I went Legion earlier and after I picked we also got a Troll, Sniper and Slark who all need farm so I went jungle but also bought a TP in case they needed help in lane. As soon as I got to level 6 I left the jungle and tried to get ganks - should I have just stayed in lane from the start?
You make your lanes weaker early by not being in a lane and farming the jungle. Good teams will punish this. Not sure if that is a problem in your mmr though. Strong lanes can remedy this a bit too.
As a jungle legion you definitely want to try to gank at 6 and snowball from there on out, you should also try to farm up your blink quick.
Personally I think offlane Legion is better since she is a strong laner, although jungling can work in certain games.
Ehhh, it's something that has pretty significant impact on lanes. Having an extra body on a lane can make all the difference. Being against what's a near-impossible matchup when you could be winning it if the guy jungling was there is not really an issue of "cry babies who don't know how to win lanes". By that logic you could say "Wards are for cry babies without map awareness" if someone on your team bought all the wards and destroyed them.
Of course if they're able to gank from the jungle, that is more than welcome and is fine instead of them laning.
I'm not 100% against jungling, but I'm usually against it. There are plenty of situations where the team can fit it and it works. Case in point: Iron Talon. While I still harbor some resentment toward this item, there's no denying the positives on it that outweigh the negatives. It helps heroes that actually do have business jungling jungle faster, carries catch up that had a rough lane, etc. Of course it sucks when your Bane decides he's going to get Iron Talon and jungle.
What is hyperbole...
Anyway the problem with junglers in the 3k pleb tier isn't lost lanes. It's that the jungler comes out with nothing but brown boots and a blink 12 minutes in and then proceeds to feed over n over because their itemization sucks.
Or if I'm mid or carry it means that I can't flash farm jungle in between creep waves because the camps have been farmed already which is annoying.
Just generally speaking at my current tier junglers offer very little in comparison to a roamer or lane support.
Anyway the problem with junglers in the 3k pleb tier isn't lost lanes. It's that the jungler comes out with nothing but brown boots and a blink 12 minutes in and then proceeds to feed over n over because their itemization sucks.
Or if I'm mid or carry it means that I can't flash farm jungle in between creep waves because the camps have been farmed already which is annoying.
Just generally speaking at my current tier junglers offer very little in comparison to a roamer or lane support.
what about when u have a wk that jungles solidly for 25 minutes to build a radiance and then joins one fight, loses his mana to emp and then immediately walks off and shrines
The problem here is the players, not where they were in the early stages of the game. Bad itemisation/game sense is always bad, and it would still have been bad regardless of what lanes they were in.
The only time I see dedicated junglers being a huge problem (in 2k) is when we then have a solo offlaner who has no clue how to play that lane, sits up by the enemy tower/side shop trying to farm like a safe lane carry, dies 5 times in lane and then blames mid for not coming to gank his lane.
So most games (in 3k).
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
No one here was crying about it though?
shira
Member
Dates of Interest
Apr 24 Winter Battle Pass ends
Pro Dota Results
- Feb 26 SLi3 1. TL 2. VGJ 3. TNC/OG
- Feb 20th D2CL 10 1. Horde 2. Friends 3. Effect/Fieve
- Feb 17th EM 3.0 1. OG 2. Col 3. Onyx/[A]
- Feb 13 DAC 2017 NP and Empire qualify for LAN
- Feb 10 DAC 2017 Faceless and Liquid qualify for LAN
- Feb 3 SLi 3 DC qualify for LAN
- Jan 31 SLi 3 Liquid, Secret qualify for LAN
- Jan 25 SLi 3 TNC qualify for LAN
- Jan 22 DotaPit 5 1. EG 2. OG 3. FL
- Jan 14-15 DAC 2017 iG, VGJ, LFY, iGV qualify for LAN
- Jan 15 WESG: 1. TNC 2. C9 3. [A]
- Jan 7 ESL Genting 1. DC 2. NB 3. VP/Wings
March
Mar 6-9 Kiev Major Open Qualifier
Mar 10-13 Kiev Major Regional Qualifier
Mar 28-Apr 4
DAC 2017 LAN Shanghai, CN
$500k
12: Wings, OG, EG, NB, iG, VGJ, LFY, iGV, NP, FL, TL, Empire
April
Apr 27-30
Kiev Major LAN Kiev, UKR
$3000k
16: TBD
May
May 26-28
The Masters Manila, PHL
$250k
8: EG, OG, 6 TBD
June
?
EPICENTER 2017 LAN Moscow, RU
?
?
TI7 Open Qualifier Jun 22-25
TI7 Regional Qualifier Jun 26-29
July
July 7-9
Final Match LAN Lima, PER
$50k
8: MVP, 7 TBD
August
TI7 LAN Late July/Early Aug(?) Seattle/Vancouver/Toronto/Manila
Oct 28-29
ESL One Hamburg LAN, Hamburg, GER
$250k
8: TBD
Dreams-Visions
Member
thanks for all the calendar updates, Shira.
SecretMoblin
Member
I like solo offlaning (because I WIN the lane motherfucker) and prefer it to a do-nothing support who just runs in circles before going to get the jungle rune every 2 mins, so I don't mind junglers
It's bad if they're a Whom or Enigma or Fleagion and don't get 6 in a reasonable time frame and haunt the lanes, tho
It's bad if they're a Whom or Enigma or Fleagion and don't get 6 in a reasonable time frame and haunt the lanes, tho
thanks, man
LucidMomentum
Member
Dreams-Visions
Member
Alright boys, who wants this giant Mirana statue. Happy to entertain offers. I am a very reasonable person. I want this bigass box out of my home.
shira
Member
milk wants one, pm him