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Dove partners with Unreal Engine and others to launch 'Real Virtual Beauty', to reflect real-world diversity in video games.
- Thread starter Eddie-Griffin
- Start date
I'm always very supportive towards diversity and inclusion in games, especially in those games where you should be whoever you want, but technically you can't.
But these moves are just stupid and I doubt they'll have any support, not only by developers but the audience also.
Every move which imply that the world has to bend to the will of few people will fail miserably.
Like every multinational corporation who waste its time to be good to others instead to be righteous, Dove fails to understand you can't force "inclusion" and "diversity" in a product, when instead you should allow and help "diverse" people to make their own product.
Developers don't have will and time to follow this supposed "accredited course to educate designers, creators and moderators about the beauty and diversity issues in gaming, and how to avoid unconscious bias across the stages of avatar and character development", sorry guys, but we have to finish our action with tits and boobies that sold millions, instead of following a path to games nobody want to play.
I also want to see that " survey (...) 73 per cent of female gamers "believe lack of diversity is an issue in games. It also concluded that "60 per cent of girls and women feel the current lack of diversity in avatars and characters has a negative effect on their self-esteem".
Thank you Dove, can't wait to see a tramutized Amouranth put Fortnite aside to play your inclusive game.
Drizzlehell
Banned
"More representative, inclusive environment online" = we only allow white chicks, ideally with some sort of disability.
Well, I am a big proponent of the idea that humans should stop reproducing for a while as a way to combat overpopulation but if that's how we're gonna go about it then fuck it, let's just nuke everything and get it over with.
Well, I am a big proponent of the idea that humans should stop reproducing for a while as a way to combat overpopulation but if that's how we're gonna go about it then fuck it, let's just nuke everything and get it over with.
gaming_again
Member
That reminds me of the launch screen Microsoft once used when you downloaded their new upgraded Xbox Avatar function.
Luckily, I took a picture of it at the time because it was so ridiculous:
The other day a message came up on my XSX dashboard that simply said ‘Be kind’. Finger wagging from my own fucking gaming system.
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Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
She’s in a wheelchair and still looking fit. There’s really no excuse to be fat.
newtypepilot
Member
This is just as bad as that magazine (cosmos, I think?) glorifying and celebrating obesity by having that super plus size "model" on its cover.
Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
Where is the attractive woman template here? I assume at least some women in real life are attractive, so they should be included.
Saber
Member
The fact that this has to be said is that surprises me the most.
As if people in the real world would love to see ugly faces on the cinema instead of beauties and hunks.
That until some smartass go here and post "I bet you all are ugly as well", dude why the fuck any of us would go to the cinema to watch your ugly faces?
The worst offenders are Reera dwellers who say that people just want "jerk material". Real charmers, probably monsters who would be outcasts on a party.
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Roman Empire
Member
Dove is behind the times. Didn't they see what people create in MMORPGs/Souls' games? They can't represent a blue smurf fatty Chibi guy like we see in some games. Fuck this representation trend. Games let you be anything you want from a Fat Red hat wearing Plumber to an Eldritch Monstrosities. That's the magic of character creation tools.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
"A survey commissioned by the brand surmised that despite the fact women "comprise almost half (1.3bn) of the global gaming community."
This will be a distorted lie. How many of these women play stuff like Candy Crush / mobile rather than console/PC? I'd bet a significant amount.
This will be a distorted lie. How many of these women play stuff like Candy Crush / mobile rather than console/PC? I'd bet a significant amount.
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kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Imagine the first Avatar movie coming out today .... It's the story of a paraplegic marine who gets to live an extraordinary life in the body of an alien being on an exotic planet. If the people in Dove's ad agency had their way Jake Sully's avatar would have had to make his way through the jungles of Pandora in a super sized wheelchair and watch from the ground in envy at the Na'vi flying up above on soaring dragonlike creatures.
I kinda like those buildings, they're def more interesting than the usual boxes. The real question is how they are designed inside which today seems like an afterthought.
Coherenthy
Member
Damn... They're all ugly.https://www.gamesradar.com/beauty-p...games-to-change-the-game-and-boost-diversity/
https://www.dove.com/uk/stories/about-dove/dove-gaming.html
I'm surprised they didn't partner with Sony since they had similar ideas on this issue, given Horizon. I suppose they are working on a game using Ureal with one of their partners as the resaon for the engine partnership.
What the hell's going on with the West's fascination in diversity when all I see is ugliness?
Drizzlehell
Banned
If that's how you view the world then I wonder if it's not skewed from watching too much porn or if it's because you live on some inbred farm and have no decent frame of reference.
Around where I live, most people that you can meet on the street are at least fuckable, and the only real disqualifier is if someone is fat or just straight up filthy. Those archetypes from that Dove commercial are more like an exception rather than norm which is why it's so fuckimg annoying when they label it as "diversity" because it's the furthest thing away from it. They cherry-pick a bunch of land whales and disabled and try to present it as norm.
Mediocre Arachno-Lad
Banned
For a soap company they're awfully unhygienic sniffing their own farts, aren't they.
iorek21
Member
I see lots of Volus and Elcor though.
John Bilbo
Member
k
They're all videogames, and I think everyone with any common sense immediately figured out they were drawing from mobile, Facebook style games, MMOs etc to reach those figures.That training programme sounds like a nice red flag to keep an eye out for when looking over resumes
From 2017 but still:
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7842523/genre_gender_averages.png)
They probably make up 50%, the problem is these types of claims used for campaigns like this are useless because they are usually based on studies and surveys that don't differentiate a match 3 mobile game from a $70 console release.
A higher percentage of men will play certain types of games and genres and a higher percentage of women will invest in certain types of games and genres. AAA or $70 usually cater to male gamers. It wasn't until Wii that the market kind of tapped into the potential of the console female market, but went straight back to more dependent male demo when the Wii fell through.
Unknown?
Member
Maybe they're reviving Soap Shoes to be in another Sonic game where Sonic is in a wheelchair?Don't know what Dove has to do with video games, maybe trying to sell soap to certain gamersbut this is not the way
Needlecrash
Member
The BK Kids! Now, this is diversity!I got a better idea for Dove.
FearlessBelgian
Member
ZzzzzzZzzzzZZZZzzzz
RoboFu
One of the green rats
Yes a fat woman in a crop top is the epitome of beauty. 
Out of those examples one has a choice the others do not.
I think people greatly misunderstood the whole “ body shape body shaming “ thing back when it started. It didn’t mean morbidly obese.. it was more about the actual shape of people where not all the super model tall and skinny bean pole. Curves != flab.
Being morbidly obese is not healthy. It’s super simple to prove. You don’t even need any studies. Just look around and count how many old people past 60 are morbidly obese? Not very many at all.
Out of those examples one has a choice the others do not.
I think people greatly misunderstood the whole “ body shape body shaming “ thing back when it started. It didn’t mean morbidly obese.. it was more about the actual shape of people where not all the super model tall and skinny bean pole. Curves != flab.
Being morbidly obese is not healthy. It’s super simple to prove. You don’t even need any studies. Just look around and count how many old people past 60 are morbidly obese? Not very many at all.
Unknown?
Member
How dare they make candy that doesn't look like me!
deeptech
Member
they slowly but surely are, this medium, this art, this way of entertainment is going to shit (as far as new things that are coming out), only thing that keeps it afloat are japanese at the moment for me, here and there an indie and perhaps just a handful of studios in the eu/us, but for how long?
as if totality of mainstream media is not made for sane people at all anymore
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
A woman with two prosthetic legs was in my gym at one point. She was in fantastic shape.
But let’s be honest; it’s not anywhere near as easy for a person in a wheelchair. Even the simplest of tasks take more time.
As for everyone saying that’s an all white group - it’s not. The women in the middle aren’t white, and I see two Latinas.
Spirit Icana
Member
I can't find information on the survey Dove said they commissioned. I have a VERY HARD time believing half of gamers out there are female. A sizable number of girls play for sure, mostly on Nintendo's consoles thanks to software like Nintendog's, Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Style Savvy, etc, and generally having a more cute and family atmosphere in their games (mother's playing with their kids in MP titles like Mario Kart). On phone's I usually see younger girls playing games with lot's of customization. I saw one playing a title while we were lunching where they were making their character look all goth-like, and spending a considerable amount of time on her and then sharing with the group. My sister like's the pretty Korean boy aesthetic and therefore like's Final Fantasy and games with a similar look. She also liked Nier Automata, but found Horizon Zero Dawn "too boring" and didn't bother with Forbidden West.
Horizon is a very masculine kinda game (Like Nier Automata which also has a dominant female presence), and while Aloy appears feminine enough, I felt like the developers barely wanted any of the ladies being particularly lady-like in that game. For a title set in the far future where everything got sent back to the primal ages, Gaia made sure to have women look similar to God's design, but artificially boosted their biological strength (or decreased the Men's) or had some kind of organization set-up so that world didn't fall into the usual human nature trappings that 'strong vs the weak' had previously placed our world in. But they somehow still do the outcast thing and all, so they're still well shy of a progressive utopia in Horizon. At least for the Nora tribe this is true, but all the tribes barely felt any different from each other. Their religions are different (how they connect with them, I don't know. Religion is a very complicated nut to crack with millennium's of history behind our most believed one's, but that's the 'simple' direction Gorilla chose to differ their tribes with for the players), but they all feel like pretty similar to the other. I digress though, Horizon is a game where you shouldn't think about a lot of things too much, but man the characters yap yap so much, they clearly think they got a decent narrative for somebody with this. I'm sure a number of folks enjoyed the series, it has just hasn't clicked with me completely. I finished ZD, but dropped FW at or before the half-way mark.
On topic, I'm don't understand what Dove is trying to accomplish here really. Is Overwatch their ideal cast of characters? It's got everyone, plus robots, monkeys, and hamsters. Super Smash Bros. stuck completely to the world's most iconic gaming characters, and perhaps that's Dove's invisible ire here that gaming is largely driven by Men, Asia, FPS, and kid animals. I don't know, the aim here is a little lost on me. I always like Tetsuya Takahashi's approach to stuff like this. He made Shion, a nerd scientist girl, the main character of his very risky Xenosaga venture because he felt no one's made a character quite like her for a game like that at the time, and he thought it'd be more refreshing. Granted, you're still forced to control other characters throughout that narrative still, and that game was too ambitious for the staff and budget they had (a budget that they went well over, I believe, which put Tetsuya in hot water yet again just like with Xenogears).
My point there is that Monolith Soft saw 'rare' as an opportunity, and 'rare' is not a BAD thing (can be quite the opposite and very enriching which is why it's called a risk). People like new and refreshing, underdogs, and the under-estimated beating all odds. It's like the Tiger Woods story, a black man in a dominantly white sport, coming in and shaking the landscape because of his hard work and passion, proving to all YOU can do it too, not someone else's interest in looking to recruit any and all (mediocre or less) and check a box.
The games radar headline reads "to change the game and boost diversity." What game are they trying to change? And we need details on this survey they're talking about, because while Nintendo made it a point years back that women made up half of their Wii/DS install bases years ago, they made a very real effort to win the ladies over, and it wasn't by swapping male leads with female ones, it was by trying to make games girls actually want to play. Early in the Switch's lifespan, it was reported Nintendo wanted more of those visual novel games in Japan with the girl as MC and a bunch a dudes she can win over on their new machine (I can't remember what they're called). We know girls like romance, and I've always wondered if Nintendo saw data from Fire Emblem, and the romance push it has gotten since Awakening, that convinced them to try and grab those titles. The ads for that Tomodachi Life, the game that was a surprise hit in Japan and was localized for the west, met controversy for having romance stuff, but not having anything to do with LGBTQ, and a Nintendo rep regrettably commenting that they don't do politics. That game was very much geared for the female audience and the ads show who the target audience was (and I briefly argued this with GAF back in the day):
I think the Dove partnership is worthless, trying to boost their PR with progressives with no understanding or even a vision for what "diversity" or "change" should entail for gaming, and their so called 'survey' is a flat lie without context. Who are these girls who make up half the player population, and what are they playing? What games are girls particularly complaining about, and are they playing them or just have general disinterest in them? I don't buy the 'survey'. The whole thing smells like gunk. Dove needs to soap up and ship out. They have NO BUSINESS in our hobby.
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Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
It can go either way - some people play aspirational characters. I know I made a Blood Elf in 2006 in TBC with a very strong argument of: 'if I have to look at a pixelated ass all day, I will look at a nice pixelated ass all day'.
Others want their characters to mirror them.
Radical_3d
Member
Body diversity in the States.
Puscifer
Member
I'm just saying lol
Like I don't think the best advertisement for a soap company is a bunch of people, digital or otherwise, upon laying your eyes on them is that you want to tell them go take a bath.
Tams
Gold Member
That's because with things like this and most advertising, that it's some very small survey that they often don't even publicly release, that's only really done so that they don't get in legal trouble.
Legit don't get the snarky pushback in here: this initiative takes ZERO development efforts away from publishers, offers - for any developer or creative interested - a course on potential blind spots they might have surrounding issues of diversity in game design which can only make someone a STRONGER developer, all accompanied by a visual campaign to give more visibility to gamers (or actors, no idea who these people are) who don't meet the traditional image of "lady gamer" and what is the response:
. . .yeah. Totally no need for this initiative at all.
. . .yeah. Totally no need for this initiative at all.
Thebonehead
Gold Member
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
I like how the 2 wheelchair ones are the only ones who look fit and attractive.
It’s such a mixed message, like “it’s so wonderful no matter how fat your body is or what your face looks like, you are beautiful just how you are!! ….. oh but we better make the 2 wheelchair ladies look all fit and attractive, don’t want to portray them in a negative light! …. Not that being fit and attractive is any better or worse than being obese and ugly…… AHHHHHHH” [head explodes]
It’s such a mixed message, like “it’s so wonderful no matter how fat your body is or what your face looks like, you are beautiful just how you are!! ….. oh but we better make the 2 wheelchair ladies look all fit and attractive, don’t want to portray them in a negative light! …. Not that being fit and attractive is any better or worse than being obese and ugly…… AHHHHHHH” [head explodes]
GymWolf
Gold Member
Nah, just a regular black albino like the villain in black thunder.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
I gotta give Fable 2 props for being the original body positive game.
I played as a morbidly obese womyn with facial hair, who eats every pie she can get her hands on and who fiercely burps and farts almost nonstop.
Any time one of my milquetoast husbands made a comment about my appearance, I’d beat him until he understood that beauty and femininity are just social constructs and that he should be sexually attracted to me just as I am.
#feministAF #HealthyAtEverySize
I played as a morbidly obese womyn with facial hair, who eats every pie she can get her hands on and who fiercely burps and farts almost nonstop.
Any time one of my milquetoast husbands made a comment about my appearance, I’d beat him until he understood that beauty and femininity are just social constructs and that he should be sexually attracted to me just as I am.
#feministAF #HealthyAtEverySize
GnomeChimpsky
Member
93% of statistics is complete horseshit.