Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.

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HeroR said:
The Hyperbolic Time Chamber is overrated. Trunks and Vegeta didn't even surpassed Goku and Gohan when they used it for less than day and they used it twice. Goku and Vegeta also didn't get a massive jump when they used it for three days outside of Goku's Kaoiken. The last time the Hyperbolic Time Chamber was really useful was for Vegeta surpassing Black, and then Black surpassed him by getting 'angry'.
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...so it's not overrated then.

Plus in this situation it actually makes a lot of sense. They had 48h to gather a team and get ready. Even a few hours in there would be equal to at least a few months. For stuff like team attacks, understanding how each one of them functions to better cover their own asses during the tournament it would be a great help. The HTC doesn't necessarily need to be a "get stronger/more powerful" tool, not in this case.

It's clear team chemistry will be important during the actual tournament, and while the "POWER OF FRIENDSHIP, YO!" is cool, they need a lot more than 48h to function properly as a team.

Ah well. I'm sure it's all so Goku somehow remains as the last Universe 7 member or something and thus he has an epic fight with Jiren, which will likely be the only other remaing opponent along with him. :P
 
ElFly said:
BoG Goku's base form still had lingering SSG ki, for whatever reason

eventually Goku will learn to harness his ki to emulate God Ki and create SSGSS, but after that, his base form won't go back to BoG levels

why base Vegeta can kick SSJ3 Gotenks's ass? because Gotenks is shit now
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That makes no sense at all. If that was true, Vegeta's base form should beat up Goku's since he spent six months with Whis, didn't have Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, yet Goku and Vegeta sparred evenly in their base forms. He also wouldn't have 'lingering' god ki since he never had it to begin, so his base was naturally be that strong. Yet, Goku is still equal to it.

Even more, we know that Goku has strong base form in Resurrection 'F' when he took on first form Frieza. The same Frieza who shot holes through Super Saiyan Gohan and killed Piccolo with a well place Death Beam in his first form from his easy chair. Even if you want to believe first form Frieza was only around Majin Vegeta's level, may I remind you of the power different between first form Frieza on Namek and his final form First form Frieza had a power level of around 530,000. Full power final form Frieza, 120 million. That is over a 226% increase in power and Goku crapped all over final form Frieza. Unless you wank the living hell out of the Buu Saga characters, Goku's base form is easily on par if not surpassed where he was in Battle of Gods. This is ignoring that Goku fought Beerus in his base form when he was wearing a Monaka outfit. Goku took several hits and gave Beerus a decent match. Compared that to a heavily suppressed Beerus from Battle of Gods who two-shotted Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

No matter how much you try, Goku's base form didn't suddenly take a dump once he got Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

RocknRola said:
...so it's not overrated then.

Plus in this situation it actually makes a lot of sense. They had 48h to gather a team and get ready. Even a few hours in there would be equal to at least a few months. For stuff like team attacks, understanding how each one of them functions to better cover their own asses during the tournament it would be a great help. The HTC doesn't necessarily need to be a "get stronger/more powerful" tool, not in this case.

It's clear team chemistry will be important during the actual tournament, and while the "POWER OF FRIENDSHIP, YO!" is cool, they need a lot more than 48h to function properly as a team.

Ah well. I'm sure it's all so Goku somehow remains as the last Universe 7 member or something and thus he has an epic fight with Jiren, which will likely be the only other remaing opponent along with him. :P
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It is overrated since the power jump was easily bridge by Black in just a few minutes. Not like how Vegeta in the Android/Cell went from weaker than Android 17 and 18 to kicking the shit out of Semi-Perfect. That is not even getting started on Goku.

It takes 'years' to build a team chemistry. Not just a few months of grinding.
 
HeroR said:
It is overrated since the power jump was easily bridge by Black in just a few minutes. Not like how Vegeta in the Android/Cell went from weaker than Android 17 and 18 to kicking the shit out of Semi-Perfect. That is not even getting started on Goku.

It takes 'years' to build a team chemistry. Not just a few months of grinding.
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I mean, sure, but had he not trained he wouldn't even be able to touch Black at all, as shown during their first fight.

If it takes years, which in real life it actually does but let's ignore that for a second, then that just goes in favour of my argument really. While a few months isn't the same as a few years it's still better than literally less than 48h (and with only a couple of members of the team training together too).

Sooo... it would be a perfect tool for this 48h gap IMO.
 
RocknRola said:
I mean, sure, but had he not trained he wouldn't even be able to touch Black at all, as shown during their first fight.

If it takes years, which in real life it actually does but let's ignore that for a second, then that just goes in favour of my argument really. While a few months isn't the same as a few years it's still better than literally less than 48h (and with only a couple of members of the team training together too).

Sooo... it would be a perfect tool for this 48h gap IMO.
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Characters in general in the show gets stronger when they know their enemies' power instead of just guessing. Everyone trained for the androids for three years, yet Goku didn't have a huge power jump. He trained the the chamber for less than a year knowing his enemies' power, suddenly huge boost. Vegeta knew Black's strength and aimed to surpassed. No one knows how powerful the people in the tournament would be so they're shooting blind and most likely won't make any major gains.

And people like Roshi would most likely die in the chamber and you need enough food to feed ten people (three how are Saiyans). Using the chamber for teamwork isn't practical unless you're doing what Gohan and Piccolo are doing and working on duo attacks.
 
RocknRola said:
...so it's not overrated then.

Plus in this situation it actually makes a lot of sense. They had 48h to gather a team and get ready. Even a few hours in there would be equal to at least a few months. For stuff like team attacks, understanding how each one of them functions to better cover their own asses during the tournament it would be a great help. The HTC doesn't necessarily need to be a "get stronger/more powerful" tool, not in this case.

It's clear team chemistry will be important during the actual tournament, and while the "POWER OF FRIENDSHIP, YO!" is cool, they need a lot more than 48h to function properly as a team.

Ah well. I'm sure it's all so Goku somehow remains as the last Universe 7 member or something and thus he has an epic fight with Jiren, which will likely be the only other remaing opponent along with him. :P
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HeroR said:
Characters in general in the show gets stronger when they know their enemies' power instead of just guessing. Everyone trained for the androids for three years, yet Goku didn't have a huge power jump. He trained the the chamber for less than a year knowing his enemies' power, suddenly huge boost. Vegeta knew Black's strength and aimed to surpassed. No one knows how powerful the people in the tournament would be so they're shooting blind and most likely won't make any major gains.

And people like Roshi would most likely die in the chamber and you need enough food to feed ten people (three how are Saiyans). Using the chamber for teamwork isn't practical unless you're doing what Gohan and Piccolo are doing and working on duo attacks.
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So, exactly what I said above. Not a tool for getting "more powerful", but team building.

And come on now, food being a problem? :P Let's not get silly here.
 
HeroR said:
The Hyperbolic Time Chamber is overrated. Trunks and Vegeta didn't even surpassed Goku and Gohan when they used it for less than day and they used it twice. Goku and Vegeta also didn't get a massive jump when they used it for three days outside of Goku's Kaoiken. The last time the Hyperbolic Time Chamber was really useful was for Vegeta surpassing Black, and then Black surpassed him by getting 'angry'.
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Two years of training > 48 hours of training

How can this be in question. Even if they use one day-year, or half a day-6 months, they'll get a lot more done than a spotty 48 hours of training while recruiting at the same time.

They still have some hours left, if it made any sense they'd take the team of 10 into there.
 
LordOfChaos said:
Two years of training > 48 hours of training

How can this be in question. Even if they use one day-year, or half a day-6 months, they'll get a lot more done than a spotty 48 hours of training while recruiting at the same time.

They still have some hours left, if it made any sense they'd take the team of 10 into there.
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Isn't it limited to two at a time?
 
I think a big problem is that 17 and Gohan make Goku and Vegeta look like utter fools.

The idiots spent 3 years training non stop and they could barely get stronger yet one surpasses them in 6 hours and the other reached their heights while not knowing about god stuff.

Which I'm perfectly fine with, but since they spent all the first arcs of Super about those two, it makes the whole thing a bit sour.

Whis and Beerus' interest in them even more. I guess maybe it was a personality thing more than straight power that they saw in them...
 
B-Dubs said:
Isn't it limited to two at a time?
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Buu + Goten + Trunks + Piccolo were all in there at the same time. Granted, with Gotenks it becomes 3 instead of 4, but you get the point :P

Slaythe said:
I think a big problem is that 17 and Gohan make Goku and Vegeta look like utter fools.

The idiots spent 3 years training non stop and they could barely get stronger yet one surpasses them in 6 hours and the other reached their heights while not knowing about god stuff.

Which I'm perfectly fine with, but since they spent all the first arcs of Super about those two, it makes the whole thing a bit sour.

Whis and Beerus' interest in them even more. I guess maybe it was a personality thing more than straight power that they saw in them...
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I agree somewhat, but I think it's mostly the result of them being either fully ignored up until this point (since after the Cell Saga in Z) or in the case of Gohan...well, being Gohan :P.

So it feels weird for them to "comeback" so strong. Had they been used more, or at least shown more, perhaps it wouldn't be as "shocking".
 
RocknRola said:
I agree somewhat, but I think it's mostly the result of them being either fully ignored up until this point (since after the Cell Saga in Z) or in the case of Gohan...well, being Gohan :P.

So it feels weird for them to "comeback" so strong. Had they been used more, or at least shown more, perhaps it wouldn't be as "shocking".
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In the case of my ass you mean :p, Trunks did the exact same thing. Proving it wasn't just Gohan. 17 is just one more element going that way.

Ashodin said:
Reading the spoiler,
Goku is going to be so impressed with Gohan he's going to learn ultimate form.
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You mean... Super ultimate form... with extra steam.
 
HeroR said:
That makes no sense at all. If that was true, Vegeta's base form should beat up Goku's since he spent six months with Whis, didn't have Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, yet Goku and Vegeta sparred evenly in their base forms. He also wouldn't have 'lingering' god ki since he never had it to begin, so his base was naturally be that strong. Yet, Goku is still equal to it.

Even more, we know that Goku has strong base form in Resurrection 'F' when he took on first form Frieza. The same Frieza who shot holes through Super Saiyan Gohan and killed Piccolo with a well place Death Beam in his first form from his easy chair. Even if you want to believe first form Frieza was only around Majin Vegeta's level, may I remind you of the power different between first form Frieza on Namek and his final form First form Frieza had a power level of around 530,000. Full power final form Frieza, 120 million. That is over a 226% increase in power and Goku crapped all over final form Frieza. Unless you wank the living hell out of the Buu Saga characters, Goku's base form is easily on par if not surpassed where he was in Battle of Gods. This is ignoring that Goku fought Beerus in his base form when he was wearing a Monaka outfit. Goku took several hits and gave Beerus a decent match. Compared that to a heavily suppressed Beerus from Battle of Gods who two-shotted Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

No matter how much you try, Goku's base form didn't suddenly take a dump once he got Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.



It is overrated since the power jump was easily bridge by Black in just a few minutes. Not like how Vegeta in the Android/Cell went from weaker than Android 17 and 18 to kicking the shit out of Semi-Perfect. That is not even getting started on Goku.

It takes 'years' to build a team chemistry. Not just a few months of grinding.
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sparring ain't the same as really fighting

Goku can go toe to toe with Krillin and Vegeta if they aren't really fighting for their lives; we know what a real fight between Goku and Vegeta looks like. they get completely destroyed and barely walk afterwards

you cannot derive any power level information from any spar match anyone has had so far. Not Goku / Krillin, Goku / Slim Buu or whoever. We know 17 and SSGSS are around the same level but we don't know who is really stronger because they both were massively holding back too
 
LordOfChaos said:
Two years of training > 48 hours of training

How can this be in question. Even if they use one day-year, or half a day-6 months, they'll get a lot more done than a spotty 48 hours of training while recruiting at the same time.

They still have some hours left, if it made any sense they'd take the team of 10 into there.
Click to expand...

Goku and Vegeta spent three years in that chamber for the Champa Saga and outside of Goku getting the Kaioken there was no noticeably power boost from the last arc. And Vegeta and Trunks used the chamber twice in the Cell Games and didn't catch up to Goku and Gohan who used it for less than a day.

The time chamber hasn't been this magic pill that some of you are thinking since it was introduced.

Slaythe said:
I think a big problem is that 17 and Gohan make Goku and Vegeta look like utter fools.

The idiots spent 3 years training non stop and they could barely get stronger yet one surpasses them in 6 hours and the other reached their heights while not knowing about god stuff.

Which I'm perfectly fine with, but since they spent all the first arcs of Super about those two, it makes the whole thing a bit sour.

Whis and Beerus' interest in them even more. I guess maybe it was a personality thing more than straight power that they saw in them...
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say they look like fools since we haven't seen any of these characters surpassed them, yet. Only that they can keep up since we know Goku haven't been using his full power. Plus, Goku and Vegeta are battle geniuses outside of their power. Like, even if Gohan was on Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta's level during the Champa Saga, do you think he could have figure out Hit's time-skip even if he had the information like Goku? That isn't even getting into the Kaioken that Goku has gotten better at using.

So I disagree that Goku and Vegeta looks like fool. Well, maybe Vegeta since he trained in the time chamber for three years and got nothing really out of it.

With that said, Gohan going from where he at possibly being or surpassing Goku's level it a stretching it for me. Trunks got a brand new shiny form to get to that level and that is after he got his ass repeatedly beat and emotionally damaged so if felt like he earned it. Gohan just got a form back that he had for decades. And him doing this in like nine hours is even more numbing. It just doesn't feel like Gohan earned it, but Gohan never feels like he earned anything except for Super Saiyan 2. The one thing I always hated about Gohan is that he's a walking cheat code.

But, I won't judge until I actually see the episode.
 
HeroR said:
Goku and Vegeta spent three years in that chamber for the Champa Saga and outside of Goku getting the Kaioken there was no noticeably power boost from the last arc. And Vegeta and Trunks used the chamber twice in the Cell Games and didn't catch up to Goku and Gohan who used it for less than a day.

The time chamber hasn't been this magic pill that some of you are thinking since it was introduced.
Click to expand...

On the other hand it did miracles for Goku and Gohan, allowing them to reach power levels they couldn't have without it (in the time before the Cell Tournament).

So yeah, knowing how to train is important, but time >>>>>>>> no time. That doesn't seem debatable at all.
 
I sometimes forget that Goku and Vegeta used the HTC at the same time.

And then when they came out, Vegeta had his hand on Goku's shoulder.

Total bros. 100% bros. I wish they showed some of their time in the chamber.
 
RocknRola said:
On the other hand it did miracles for Goku and Gohan, allowing them to reach power levels they couldn't have without it (in the time before the Cell Tournament).

So yeah, knowing how to train is important, but time >>>>>>>> no time. That doesn't seem debatable at all.
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Which I said since the first time. When it was introduced, it was a magic pill. Afterwards, in the same saga no less, it wasn't otherwise Vegeta and Trunks should have murdered Cell after their second trip.

As Goku said, there is such a thing called overtraining and the time chamber goes from training to just torture after a point. That is why he didn't want to used it again in the Cell Saga.
 
HeroR said:
Which I said since the first time. When it was introduced, it was a magic pill. Afterwards, in the same saga no less, it wasn't otherwise Vegeta and Trunks should have murdered Cell after their second trip.

As Goku said, there is such a thing called overtraining and the time chamber goes from training to just torture after a point. That is why he didn't want to used it again in the Cell Saga.
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Okay*, but in this case, for what was already discussed (trying to create at least a small semblance of team chemistry) surely it's a lot better (even if they could only stay for a few months in there) than no training/ 2 or 3 members training on their own in less than 48h.

Surely you can see how it would make sense, no? They wouldn't necessarily be coming out stronger but as a better team and possibly with a whole bunch of team attacks too.

*
Arguably he was counting on Gohan since he already knew he had potential, just not the correct motivation, though that is neither here nor there.
 
Setsuna said:
As an 18 Fan. To not be disappointed, where should I keep my exptectations?
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Hard to say yet. Maybe we'll get a better picture of her importance (or lack of) in the tournament. For now it's clear she is strong (or stronger than Krillin at least) but she wasn't shown that much.
 
Setsuna said:
As an 18 Fan. To not be disappointed, where should I keep my exptectations?
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Her brother is one of the strongest characters in the team and he is probably gonna train her.

One of super's writers confirmed 18 will have "cool scenes" in the tournament and that she is very cool character and we should look forward to that.

So you should be happy.
 
Slaythe said:
Her brother is one of the strongest characters in the team and he is probably gonna train her.

One of super's writers confirmed 18 will have "cool scenes" in the tournament and that she is very cool character and we should look forward to that.

So you should be happy.
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With the time left, I doubt he will train her. We already seen her training with Krillin.
 
Slaythe said:
If the Piccolo Tien Gohan and Goku have time, I'm sure 17 and 18 do too.
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If 17 wanted to train with 18, it would have been shown in this week's episode. He never even indicated he was going to see his sister. Also, do 17 even knows where Krillin and 18 live?
 
HeroR said:
If 17 wanted to train with 18, it would have been shown in this week's episode. He never even indicated he was going to see his sister. Also, do 17 even knows where Krillin and 18 live?
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He's visited them in the past and he has her phone number.

They could simply wait to have the whole team completed before having more focused training. Just like the 4 above are getting.
 
HardRojo said:
RoF. Everyone died :(
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eeeh time rollback doesn't count. you may as well say "Mr Satan must have died in the Future Trunks timeline"

unless there is a timeline where satan stayed dead, like the time shenanigans with Zamasu getting erased

Slaythe said:
He's visited them in the past and he has her phone number.

They could simply wait to have the whole team completed before having more focused training. Just like the 4 above are getting.
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really interested on what the Krillin / 17 dynamic is like

maybe 17 is bros with Krillin and really warm to his little brother, while still being cold as fuck to the rest of the gang

but the thing where 18 doesn't even know where 17 lives tells me 17 is cold to everyone, prolly even his niece :(
 
90 and 91 will answer a lot of questions. Though its never going to happen, I'd find it hilarious if Gohan goes in being the strongest U6 would be like "what the fuck?"
 
CryptiK said:
90 and 91 will answer a lot of questions. Though its never going to happen, I'd find it hilarious if Gohan goes in being the strongest U6 would be like "what the fuck?"
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now that Gohan has the bang back I am all for him being the storongest again


so...who is the zombie lady in the Tenshinhan episode? not Launch, clearly

here's hoping 17's wife is Launch
 
HeroR said:
Goku and Vegeta spent three years in that chamber for the Champa Saga and outside of Goku getting the Kaioken there was no noticeably power boost from the last arc. And Vegeta and Trunks used the chamber twice in the Cell Games and didn't catch up to Goku and Gohan who used it for less than a day.

The time chamber hasn't been this magic pill that some of you are thinking since it was introduced.
Click to expand...

Then 48 hours would do 365x less something.
 
Slaythe said:
He's visited them in the past and he has her phone number.

They could simply wait to have the whole team completed before having more focused training. Just like the 4 above are getting.
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I remember 18 only saying that he talked to him on the phone, not that he visited the house. And wasn't Krillin and them living at Roshi's until recently?
 
HeroR said:
I remember 18 only saying that he talked to him on the phone, not that he visited the house. And wasn't Krillin and them living at Roshi's until recently?
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It's stated he visited them in the same interviews they ended up using for virtually everything else, so we have no reason to believe it's not true.

Also, it's irrelevant. So he's gonna fly to Kame House in 10 seconds. "ah they're not here" "i'll call her ? Capsule corp ? OK" And he's there in 20 seconds.

This is a non issue. He has a smartphone remember.
 
Slaythe said:
It's stated he visited them in the same interviews they ended up using for virtually everything else, so we have no reason to believe it's not true.

Also, it's irrelevant. So he's gonna fly to Kame House in 10 seconds. "ah they're not here" "i'll call her ? Capsule corp ? OK" And he's there in 20 seconds.

This is a non issue. He has a smartphone remember.
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but he cannot detect ki :thinking emoji:

and he could not find the biggest fight on earth by flying around the planet, despite being able to sense Piccolo vs Cell

:double thinking emoji:
 
Im thinking Uni 7 wins but then Goku makes a request to Zeno to transfer everyone in the destroyed universes to 7 thus everyone survives and raises uni 7 mortal level up to the remaining 4 uni's
 
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