What you forget to account for is that Zamasu would still exist, and he is perfect bishie husbando.
Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.
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What you forget to account for is that Zamasu would still exist, and he is perfect bishie husbando.
roflwaffles
Member
Zamasu is great conceptually for the series but is squandered by the writers' inability to write.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
That's what he drugged Goku and Piccolo with.
Host Samurai
Member
I wanna see more large scale battles where crazy shit goes down. Like Goku & Beerus creating shockwaves around the universe. Show some ridiculous feats during battle like galactic destruction. The Beerus & Frieza fights were all about shit getting destroyed which is a stark contrast compared to the battles with the Androids, Cell & Buu.
FTFY
Same here man. The scale of the battles are really paltry, when you consider how fucking strong these dude's are now. Super should be as crazy as EoS Toriko. Power creep without insane feats isn't that fun. Really hope this tournament will convey how strong the top tiers are.
Undead Fantasy
Member
Concept was interesting, execution could have been a lot better. Especially near the end.
RocknRola
Member
I know, that's what makes it tempting :3
Indeed!
Oh he did? My bad then. I honestly did not recall that. Problem solved then!
Undead Fantasy
Member
What exactly was wrong with the execution? I really don't see it.
I'm actually struggling to find things I dislike about Zamasu.
I liked that Goku Black was creepy, and that instead of being an evil version of Goku, he was a totally distinct character who didn't even fight all that similarly. I like the fact that he was a genuinely threatening villain (which we hadn't really seen yet since Dragonball came back) and that the heroes were simply not strong enough to beat him.
I like that base Zamasu came out of something that we were already vaguely aware of in the setting (that other universes had their own Kaioshins), that we finally got to see what immortality is like and how dangerous it can be. Zamasu wouldn't be a threat if not for the fact that he can't be hurt, so he can just keep fighting forever.
I liked that Merged Zamasu is very different from what we've seen in Dragonball before, with his halo and rain of lightning and swords of all that. I like how his entire fighting style is based on looking down on people.
I even like Gigyas Zamasu and how he actually succeeded at killing everybody, creating a totally different ending than we had come to expect from Dragonball.
The only thing I can think of is that the half-immortality that was kind of lame (especially because it meant that Merged Zamasu ended up being less effective than Goku Black and Zamasu were separately) and that he was beaten by Trunks' deus nix machina sword.
I liked that Goku Black was creepy, and that instead of being an evil version of Goku, he was a totally distinct character who didn't even fight all that similarly. I like the fact that he was a genuinely threatening villain (which we hadn't really seen yet since Dragonball came back) and that the heroes were simply not strong enough to beat him.
I like that base Zamasu came out of something that we were already vaguely aware of in the setting (that other universes had their own Kaioshins), that we finally got to see what immortality is like and how dangerous it can be. Zamasu wouldn't be a threat if not for the fact that he can't be hurt, so he can just keep fighting forever.
I liked that Merged Zamasu is very different from what we've seen in Dragonball before, with his halo and rain of lightning and swords of all that. I like how his entire fighting style is based on looking down on people.
I even like Gigyas Zamasu and how he actually succeeded at killing everybody, creating a totally different ending than we had come to expect from Dragonball.
The only thing I can think of is that the half-immortality that was kind of lame (especially because it meant that Merged Zamasu ended up being less effective than Goku Black and Zamasu were separately) and that he was beaten by Trunks' deus nix machina sword.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Present Zamasu and Goku Black were great, Future Zamasu left a bit to be desired, and I liked Merged Zamasu because of how over the top and nuts he was.
Future Zamasu felt more like an accessory than an actual character next to Black.
Future Zamasu felt more like an accessory than an actual character next to Black.
Undead Fantasy
Member
I forgive this because it was amazingly badass. One of my favorite scenes of DB for sure.
Revere Him! Praise Him! Zamasu's Explosive Memes
Undead Fantasy
Member
The Silver
Member
I don't think anything has mastered insane power escalation like Toriko, and that was with it rushing towards the finish line. DBZ for all its power creep, the fights still look like they could still come from the saiyan saga outside of a few outliers. Toriko was like a comic book where it gives you specific numbers and explanations without the inconsistency that comes with a billion writers over time making characters bounce all over the place.
NeonZ
Member
The only thing that disappoints me about their handling of Zamasu isn't even Zamasu, but Goku Black. Especially in the anime, they focused a lot on Black's personality and making him stand out from Zamasu, but in the end when they fuse, the fusion was pretty much all Zamasu personality-wise. It just felt odd.
The whole show is kinda poorly written.
I'm watching original Dragon Ball right now and it's like night and day. The show is a masterpiece. Everything is coherent, paced well, build ups/pay offs are immaculate... it's just awesome.
Just got to Tao Pai Pai's big debut. What an episode.
I'm watching original Dragon Ball right now and it's like night and day. The show is a masterpiece. Everything is coherent, paced well, build ups/pay offs are immaculate... it's just awesome.
Just got to Tao Pai Pai's big debut. What an episode.
Undead Fantasy
Member
But he is Zamasu!
Tomasoares
Member
I don't have any problem with Zamasu's personality, my problem is with how things got conducted in the anime.
After some point, the story of the arc started dragging like forever and the fight stopped being interesting. Why the hell did they had to go to the future and come back 3 times? How do they let the time machine get destroyed again? Couldn't they figure a proper strategy to fight them? Yeah, there was the mafuba, and it failed, but fuck, you still have many ways of dealing with the immortal guy. Just KO him, trap him, whatever. Doesn't the Kai knows any sealing technique? Give the heroes a clear objective on what to do. The entire fight they were just punching immortal Zamasu and nothing happened, and they kept doing that until the fusion. Then you have that weird as fuck Black's clone spawner attack, and Goku and Vegeta doing nothing but keep attacking the clones with no results and insisting on this. C'mon, move, plan something! The clones doesn't even attack you both! Also, don't waste your blue super saiyajin form like that!
Until both Zamasu's got fused, there wasn't any actual progress in the narrative for a long time. Then the fused Zamasu has this dull big angel which feels off Dragon Ball universe, IMO. Things only actually gets interesting with Vegetto's where you also finally get some development revealing a "weakness" for the enemy and some really good fighting. The trunks "power of friendship"-sword was really good too, and should've been the ending, but well, the actual ending couldn't have been more dissapointing.
After some point, the story of the arc started dragging like forever and the fight stopped being interesting. Why the hell did they had to go to the future and come back 3 times? How do they let the time machine get destroyed again? Couldn't they figure a proper strategy to fight them? Yeah, there was the mafuba, and it failed, but fuck, you still have many ways of dealing with the immortal guy. Just KO him, trap him, whatever. Doesn't the Kai knows any sealing technique? Give the heroes a clear objective on what to do. The entire fight they were just punching immortal Zamasu and nothing happened, and they kept doing that until the fusion. Then you have that weird as fuck Black's clone spawner attack, and Goku and Vegeta doing nothing but keep attacking the clones with no results and insisting on this. C'mon, move, plan something! The clones doesn't even attack you both! Also, don't waste your blue super saiyajin form like that!
Until both Zamasu's got fused, there wasn't any actual progress in the narrative for a long time. Then the fused Zamasu has this dull big angel which feels off Dragon Ball universe, IMO. Things only actually gets interesting with Vegetto's where you also finally get some development revealing a "weakness" for the enemy and some really good fighting. The trunks "power of friendship"-sword was really good too, and should've been the ending, but well, the actual ending couldn't have been more dissapointing.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Black in the manga is boring as hell, Zamasu's heel turn is less convincing and Trunks has been sidelined for most of the arc.
There are a few things I like about the manga version, but over all I think it's vastly inferior to the anime version.
I will forever defend the ending because I like that it was so different from anything we've ever gotten in Dragon Ball, the heroes straight up lost.
There are a few things I like about the manga version, but over all I think it's vastly inferior to the anime version.
I will forever defend the ending because I like that it was so different from anything we've ever gotten in Dragon Ball, the heroes straight up lost.
There's good development in Super, the problem is they weren't intended.
Gohan wasn't intended to be this relevant. Krillin wasn't intended to be this relevant. But early on in Super we see them both kind of struggle in terms of relevancy, and Krillin got over his fears, and Gohan is managing his normal life and his fighter life, that's good development for these 2 characters, but we know that wasn't intended and they intended to do nothing with Gohan and Krillin throughout all of Super.
That's the annoying part. They lucked into some things looking like good writing, good pacing, when it wasn't. I kind of look at things from U6 arc and onward, because both BoG and RoF retelling's were trash.
Gohan wasn't intended to be this relevant. Krillin wasn't intended to be this relevant. But early on in Super we see them both kind of struggle in terms of relevancy, and Krillin got over his fears, and Gohan is managing his normal life and his fighter life, that's good development for these 2 characters, but we know that wasn't intended and they intended to do nothing with Gohan and Krillin throughout all of Super.
That's the annoying part. They lucked into some things looking like good writing, good pacing, when it wasn't. I kind of look at things from U6 arc and onward, because both BoG and RoF retelling's were trash.
Fulminator
Member
This might be the best scene in all of dragonball tbh
ArchedThunder
Banned
I think Toei intended Gohan to be relevant eventually, the problem was just getting Toriyama to make it so.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Ehh, some cracks start to show in late Dragon Ball. The King Piccolo Saga has such a ridiculous resolution.
Undead Fantasy
Member
It's up there for sure.
I never noticed they has different colored earrings.
That scene sealed the deal for me. I really enjoyed Black and Zamasu's dynamic.
ArchedThunder
Banned
The green ones are real Potara and the orange are the training ones. In the future they each wear one green earring.
🤔🤔 that scene is from Zamasu meeting Black for the first time, right? It makes sense then, good attention to detail.
Undead Fantasy
Member
Agreed. The manga really fucked up their relationship.
Pankratous
Member
Fixed for accuracy
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Toyotaru's problems is that he can't write period. All he can draw action amazingly but he can't write. I've said this before but he really had a chance to make the best version of the Future Trunks' arc but he blew it. In fact up until they go back to the Future the first time the manga is superior to the Anime but that's when shit goes down hill.
This ^
Preachy characters aren't uncommon in fiction but I don't think they are effective unless they can get you to emphasize with their opinion. Like you want the protagonists to think "this dude is fucking insane and we need to punch their teeth in but............they kind of have a point?". Zamasu kind of lost the script after a while and just went on repeat. As I said before, he really failed to sell how an empty world is "perfect". Kais are supposed to watch over and guide mortals. Zamazu obviously felt other Kais were too hands off but he didn't want to educate mortals or even rule them with an iron fist to remove their free will to eliminate conflict. He just wanted a world devoid of intelligent life. That's just not interesting or relatable in any degree.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
The biggest sin of the manga is there is a big lack of tension and stakes. This has to do in a big part of how Toyotaru handled Goku Black. His version of Black just isn't threatening. Vegeta just comes back from the past and beats the shit out of him even when he's SSJ which makes no sense. So you immediately are like ok Black's not a big deal, he's not a threat. In the anime Black not only is stronger he constantly gets stronger along with the heroes so it feels like they have no hope of surpassing him. Black makes you go "I dunno how they can win" in the anime, in the manga you just go "Oh yeah just train some more and you can win because he's not a big deal"
Where the anime fails is simple giving context and explanation to things that happen. The arc need 3 to 5 more episodes to elaborate on a few more things. Goku Black's Zenkais are great and make him super strong but they need an explanation. Trunks' SSR is dope as fuck but we need to see him progressing to it so it feels earned. Trunks' Spirit Sword is a fantastic way to kill Merged Zamas but we need to know how and why he can do that.
That is why I really hope one day we get like a DBS Kai where they can go back and add to it and smooth out all the wrinkles. It
ZeroTheShadow
Member
How is that no relatable? A world at harmony where natures laws play out as intended instead of interference from mortals who only disrupt the natural world and use it for their one selfish needs. That's pretty relatable and makes sense.
Anime wise, I think we needed an episode where Goku taught him the Spirit Bomb, but Trunks couldn't manage it.
It might have been best if Goku learned the mafuba when Trunks was with him.
I think we should have had an episode mentioning hybrid saiyan potential, maybe Beerus saying the hybrid's could be unpredictable, or other types of hints towards a hybrid way of using God Ki. Maybe a hint with Gohan, to explain Trunks. I still don't think beating it over the head with the rage power up is a good thing to do, I think it should be random like that, but there should have been some type of hint towards it.
Shame about the Zenkai boosts, or whatever Black was getting. IMO that was one of the best things about Black.
Undead Fantasy
Member
#Zamasuwasright.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Vote Zamasu 2020
#YamchapleasewishbackZamasuwiththesuperdragonballs
Zamasu is to Goten what Piccolo is to Gohan.
Technically he's Goten's Dad.I wish Zamasu was my dad.
Zamasu is to Goten what Piccolo is to Gohan.
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