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[ArchedThunder]

My 2 cents of this Roshi "controversy".
First of all, can people stop saying sexual assault? The only time Roshi touched her was when he picked her up to take her to the changing room and he didn't even grope her there. What Roshi did was sexually harass her, if you are going to be upset at least use the right term.
Japan has a real issue with sexualization and general perviness, and this episode was tame compared to a lot of anime. They kept what we saw to a minimum, we didn't see Yurin's chest bare, nor her bottom and we didn't even see her panties when Roshi did. Roshi's pervertedness was played for gags, and that's a dumb and shitty trope, but he also payed for it, getting a nut kick, getting possessed and then getting hit with a Kamehameha from Goku because of it. I think Goku just leaving when he saw Roshi chasing her was the big thing that stood out to me as a wtf moment.
Did the episode handle this well? No, but Japan in general has an issue with this. But I don't think it was all that offensive. It would have been better if Roshi learned something from this, but whatever.
The show being Japanese doesn't excuse it, but it does provide context as to why something is the way it is and I think that's something people should understand.
Overall I don't think people should be getting up in arms over this, but it is part of a larger issue in Japan that does need to be addressed.

The problem with saying "Roshi did this in early DB though" is that the series has changed a lot since then. Early DB was still largely a comedic series, so when we are introduced to Roshi, said to be one of the strongest people on Earth, and it turns out he is a lazy perv who the Flying Nimbus wont let him use, it's a funny twist on what we expect.

As the series moved forward, and Roshi takes on a more serious role, becoming someone we want to sympathize with, Toriyama rightfully realized that his antics should be toned down.

But now in Super, we are dealing with the Roshi we are expected to sympathize with taking part in the kind of jokes that were made to make us think less of him, and it just becomes all around uncomfortable.

Roshi was almost nothing but a perv in Z. Once Roshi moved from being a main character to being a side character Toriyama kinda just fell back on him being a pervert, Super just mixes the serious and perverted Roshi.

 

[Slaythe]

My 2 cents of this Roshi "controversy".
First of all, can people stop saying sexual assault? The only time Roshi touched her was when he picked her up to take her to the changing room and he didn't even grope her there. What Roshi did was sexually harass her, if you are going to be upset at least use the right term.
Japan has a real issue with sexualization and general perviness, and this episode was tame compared to a lot of anime. They kept what we saw to a minimum, we didn't see Yurin's chest bare, nor her bottom and we didn't even see her panties when Roshi did. Roshi's pervertedness was played for gags, and that's a dumb and shitty trope, but he also payed for it, getting a nut kick, getting possessed and then getting hit with a Kamehameha from Goku because of it. I think Goku just leaving when he saw Roshi chasing her was the big thing that stood out to me as a wtf moment.
Did the episode handle this well? No, but Japan in general has an issue with this. But I don't think it was all that offensive. It would have been better if Roshi learned something from this, but whatever.
The show being Japanese doesn't excuse it, but it does provide context as to why something is the way it is and I think that's something people should understand.
Overall I don't think people should be getting up in arms over this, but it is part of a larger issue in Japan that does need to be addressed.

Yurin states that Roshi "put his hands all over her", assuming in one of off screen screaming scenes. Which does constitute sexual assault.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Yurin stats that Roshi "put his hands all over her", assuming in one of off screen screaming scenes. Which does constitute sexual assault.

We see the entire scene of when they are together, Roshi never touches her. So if she isn't exaggerating (or something wasn't lost in translation) she's probably just talking about when he picked her up.

 

[Real Hero]

The problem with saying "Roshi did this in early DB though" is that the series has changed a lot since then. Early DB was still largely a comedic series, so when we are introduced to Roshi, said to be one of the strongest people on Earth, and it turns out he is a lazy perv who the Flying Nimbus wont let him use, it's a funny twist on what we expect.

As the series moved forward, and Roshi takes on a more serious role, becoming someone we want to sympathize with, Toriyama rightfully realized that his antics should be toned down.

But now in Super, we are dealing with the Roshi we are expected to sympathize with taking part in the kind of jokes that were made to make us think less of him, and it just becomes all around uncomfortable.

Buy that's not true roshi was treated more seriously early on. He became gag only once he became irrelevant. He is now being brought back as a relevant fighter so there will be more sexual gags because he has more screentime

 

[HeroR]

The problem with saying "Roshi did this in early DB though" is that the series has changed a lot since then. Early DB was still largely a comedic series, so when we are introduced to Roshi, said to be one of the strongest people on Earth, and it turns out he is a lazy perv who the Flying Nimbus wont let him use, it's a funny twist on what we expect.

As the series moved forward, and Roshi takes on a more serious role, becoming someone we want to sympathize with, Toriyama rightfully realized that his antics should be toned down.

But now in Super, we are dealing with the Roshi we are expected to sympathize with taking part in the kind of jokes that were made to make us think less of him, and it just becomes all around uncomfortable.

Super is a mixed of Dragon Ball and Z, so it would have humor related to the original Dragon Ball. That includes, Roshi's dirty old man humor since, for better and worst, that is part of his character. You literally have to rewrite him to make him 'political correct'.

And Roshi only came off as 'sympathetic' in one story arc, the King Piccolo Saga where he had no sex jokes. The rest, he was off-screen and yet he still managed to be a prev in some of scene, squeezing 18's boobs. And who says we're supposed to be 'sympathetic' towards Roshi. The entire scene was made for us to laughed at Yuri and then Roshi when he got kicked in the balls.

 

[Savitar]

Hey guys what's going in here..........oh........oh...................oh my

But......we're getting two female saiyans all of a sudden, is that right?! If so that's pretty awesome. Especially since we didn't have a single one that could go saiyan and now we are getting two I take it.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Hey guys what's going in here..........oh........oh...................oh my

But......we're getting two female saiyans all of a sudden, is that right?! If so that's pretty awesome. Especially since we didn't have a single one that could go saiyan and now we are getting two I take it.

Bout time. More women fighting will be cool to see especially if they're a threat

 

[Unbounded]

The thing about Roshi being a perv is that he almost always pays for it somehow.

 

[Romars202129]

The poster said he didn't remember Roshi getting that physical and Slaythe posted the gifs showing that he has. I thought it was straightforward, anyway.

And my post was suggesting this was beyond that incident for Roshi, explained why and I said I hoped he could see that. He got upset, claimed I slandered him and took his post out of context. His reaction seemed over the top and defensive. So, I didn't feel like apologizing. Its not like I called him a sexist. I merely implied he was a bit ignorant. And he returned that favor, so I think we're even.

 

[Slaythe]

Bout time. More women fighting will be cool to see especially if they're a threat

I certainly hope one of them sucks.

More women ? Yes.

More saiyans ? fuck no.

Pan Bra Caulifla Kale

That's too much.

I want 18 to crush one of those saiyan girls.

I have high hope for the girl elf that looks like an engineer we see in the OP !!!

 

[Turin]

My 2 cents of this Roshi "controversy".
First of all, can people stop saying sexual assault? The only time Roshi touched her was when he picked her up to take her to the changing room and he didn't even grope her there. What Roshi did was sexually harass her, if you are going to be upset at least use the right term.
Japan has a real issue with sexualization and general perviness, and this episode was tame compared to a lot of anime. They kept what we saw to a minimum, we didn't see Yurin's chest bare, nor her bottom and we didn't even see her panties when Roshi did. Roshi's pervertedness was played for gags, and that's a dumb and shitty trope, but he also payed for it, getting a nut kick, getting possessed and then getting hit with a Kamehameha from Goku because of it. I think Goku just leaving when he saw Roshi chasing her was the big thing that stood out to me as a wtf moment.
Did the episode handle this well? No, but Japan in general has an issue with this. But I don't think it was all that offensive. It would have been better if Roshi learned something from this, but whatever.
The show being Japanese doesn't excuse it, but it does provide context as to why something is the way it is and I think that's something people should understand.
Overall I don't think people should be getting up in arms over this, but it is part of a larger issue in Japan that does need to be addressed.

I am curious about what kind of push back is going on in Japan but that's probably not something we need to get into here.

 

[ZealousD]

You don't have to rewrite Roshi. You just have to make it so that he "wins" less often (doesn't get to opportunity to be physical or even see anything) and/or the other characters call him out for this shit.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

I certainly hope one of them sucks.

More women ? Yes.

More saiyans ? fuck no.

Pan Bra Caulifla Kale

That's too much.

I want 18 to crush one of those saiyan girls.

I have high hope for the girl elf that looks like an engineer we see in the OP !!!

At this point I'll take an entire planet of female saiyans. I don't want any sucking.

However I agree 18 better rekt

 

[EmiPrime]

My 2 cents of this Roshi "controversy".
First of all, can people stop saying sexual assault?

*speechless*

 

[HeroR]

You don't have to rewrite Roshi. You just have to make it so that he "wins" less often (doesn't get to opportunity to be physical or even see anything) and/or the other characters call him out for this shit.

He almost never 'wins'. All his pervert acts are punished in some form. He tries to touched Bulma, Bulma decks him. He tries to peak on Launch using the restroom, he gets flushed down the toilet. He grabbed 18's boobs, 18 decks him. He insulted Yuri, Yuri kicks him I the balls and possesses him.

The only times he came out ahead is seeing Bulma without her underwear, something Bulma agreed to since she didn't realized she had no panties on, and seeing Bulma's boobs after Krillin lifted her shirt.

I certainly hope one of them sucks.

More women ? Yes.

More saiyans ? fuck no.

Pan Bra Caulifla Kale

That's too much.

I want 18 to crush one of those saiyan girls.

I have high hope for the girl elf that looks like an engineer we see in the OP !!!

But Pan and Bra are babies and don't fight, yet. And Pan is more human than Saiyan.

 

[Laiza]

*speechless*

Pretty much where I'm at right now.

I certainly hope one of them sucks.

More women ? Yes.

More saiyans ? fuck no.

Pan Bra Caulifla Kale

That's too much.

I want 18 to crush one of those saiyan girls.

I have high hope for the girl elf that looks like an engineer we see in the OP !!!

How rude. Sure, we need saiyans to stop being so bloody almighty, but you don't need to screw over the few female fighters we have to do it.

We're finally getting relevant female fighters, decades after 18 first burst onto the scene! Can we at least celebrate that without trying to drag them down just for being saiyans?

 

[RareFantasy64]

I think Yamcha has been training in secret. I think he has good things coming his way.

Wait'll the gang gets a load of his new and improved Wolf Fang Fist

 

[ArchedThunder]

*speechless*

Pretty much where I'm at right now.

That's all you took from my post?
Okay.

I am curious about what kind of push back is going on in Japan but that's probably not something we need to get into here.

Probably not nearly enough, at least from people within Japan.
I know often times criticism of sexualization in Japanese media from people in other countries is met with "Stupid foreigners don't understand us."

 

[ZealousD]

He almost never 'wins'. All his pervert acts are punished in some form. He tries to touched Bulma, Bulma decks him. He tries to peak on Launch using the restroom, he gets flushed down the toilet. He grabbed 18's boobs, 18 decks him. He insulted Yuri, Yuri kicks him I the balls and possesses him.

The only times he came out ahead is seeing Bulma without her underwear, something Bulma agreed to since she didn't realized she had no panties on, and seeing Bulma's boobs after Krillin lifted her shirt.

If he gets to see their bare breasts, or their underwear, or whatever, he "wins". He probably considers all the punishments to be worth it. He gets punished but he also gets rewarded. Don't even give him a chance.

 

[Galactic Specter]

You don't have to rewrite Roshi. You just have to make it so that he "wins" less often (doesn't get to opportunity to be physical or even see anything) and/or the other characters call him out for this shit.

Roshi's sexual harassment is always met with some kind of slapstick violence at his expense so there's that.

 

[Slaythe]

Pretty much where I'm at right now.


How rude. Sure, we need saiyans to stop being so bloody almighty, but you don't need to screw over the few female fighters we have to do it.

We're finally getting relevant female fighters, decades after 18 first burst onto the scene! Can we at least celebrate that without trying to drag them down just for being saiyans?

Of course not.

It look literally 20 years to get out of the saiyan only garbage the show had turned into, it's not to fall right back into it "omg so kewl look broly woooooo so powerful ! ".

Especially not with Pan and Bra being born and being the future. Meaning we're already getting woman saiyan bad asses we don't need all of them to be top tier.

18 hasn't shined in decades, it's her time to kick ass. And the engineer elf girl could be pretty interesting and have a pretty unique fighting style. 18 is the only girl on team 7 so she has to be one of the best girls over the new saiyan girls IMO.

 

[Icyflamez96]

And my post was suggesting this was beyond that incident for Roshi, explained why and I said I hoped he could see that. He got upset, claimed I slandered him and took his post out of context. His reaction seemed over the top and defensive. So, I didn't feel like apologizing. Its not like I called him a sexist. I merely implied he was a bit ignorant. And he returned that favor, so I think we're even.

I was mainly addressing this part of your post, dealing with Turin's post.

Slaythe, maybe you should read posts you respond to better, and I dont mean mine. The poster wrote 'I dont remember him getting that physical before', not 'Roshi never got physical before'. If its agenuine fuck up, its still yours.
Nevermind your post has no quote and is right under mine

Any confusion about his gifs being in response to any of your posts (since he didn't quote) I wasn't addressing, nor was I addressing the "further escalation" lol.

 

[HeroR]

That's all you took from my post?
Okay.


Probably not nearly enough, at least from people within Japan.
I know often times criticism of sexualization in Japanese media from people in other countries is met with "Stupid foreigners don't understand us."

It's okay. I have noticed that people on Neogaf have been especially sensitive on these type of subjects for years. Someone even made a topic about it.

I did hear about Japan having a sexual harassment problems to the point of them putting up signs that basically says, 'don't sexual assault'. It's especially bad on the subway I hear.

 

[Lucky Seven]

EDIT: Never mind, I don't want to continue this conversation.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Dragon Garow Lee mimics Toriyama's classic linework and detailing sooo much better than Toyotaro

 

[Kagari]

Dragon Garow Lee mimics Toriyama's classic linework and detailing sooo much better than Toyotaro

He's also a better artist just in general.

 

[Icyflamez96]

A female alien is going to give Roshi character development when

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Dragon Garow Lee mimics Toriyama's classic linework and detailing sooo much better than Toyotaro

I agree, but what the hell is Yamcha's left leg doing.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I think Yamcha has been training in secret. I think he has good things coming his way.



Wait'll the gang gets a load of his new and improved Wolf Fang Fist

WOLF FANG F-

*dead*

 

[The Silver]

Roshi's sexual harassment is always met with some kind of slapstick violence at his expense so there's that.

Usually he does it to a character that can fight back, he's immediately rebuffed. Here the woman is physically overpowered and they extend the joke far too long with her running away from him in fear. What should have happened is him trying his usual shit and immediately getting kicked in the balls, instead they put in some scene of Goku just backing away while Roshi chases a screaming woman in a closed room, it ain't a good look.

 

[NandoGip]

Theres no argument that will justify sexual assault in a childrens show in 2017. Sure, it passed 30 years ago, but things are different today.

 

[ArchedThunder]

I agree, but what the hell is Yamcha's left leg doing.

Oh god, I didn't realize.

Theres no argument that will justify sexual assault in a childrens show in 2017. Sure, it passed 30 years ago, but things are different today.

Nobody is trying to justify sexual assault.

 

[Slaythe]

I agree, but what the hell is Yamcha's left leg doing.

Continuity !!!

 

[Hollycat]

I wonder how deep the hole made by Tiens Kikoho is. Could it be deep enough to blast someone right through the bottom of the arena since its suspended in space?
That would count as a ring out wouldn't it?

 

[Kyzer]

DBS is set in a universe with dinosaurs and spaceships but maybe someday they will have an episode where the women press charges on roshi and there is a huge scandal that ruins the reputation of kame house

 

[Debirudog]

Usually he does it to a character that can fight back, he's immediately rebuffed. Here the woman is physically overpowered and they extend the joke far too long with her running away from him in fear. What should have happened is him trying his usual shit and immediately getting kicked in the balls, instead they put in some scene of Goku just backing away while Roshi chases a screaming woman in a closed room, it ain't a good look.

Goku is a selfish dumb-dumb head. Facepalmed for him doing nothing.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Goku is no hero bros

 

[FreeMufasa]

Wow...people in this thread are actually defending and justifying Roshis creeping/sexual harassment? I love dragon ball as much as the next guy, but let's call a spade a spade

 

[ArchedThunder]

Wow...people in this thread are actually defending and justifying Roshis creeping/sexual harassment? I love dragon ball as much as the next guy, but let's call a spade a spade

If what you got out of the discussion is that people are "defending and justifying" Roshi's behavior then your reading comprehension is questionable.

 

[Nightbird]

Whew, this thread went to shit >.>

But I guess that's to be expected when Roshi becomes more of an main character again.

I just hope that those discussions won't replace the Gohan discussions here (or at least that something less upsetting does it)

 

[Wheeljack539]

Goku is a selfish dumb-dumb head. Facepalmed for him doing nothing.

This is the same guy who was bribing Elder Kai with dirty pictures of Bulma in front of Vegeta.

As for this episode I can't really share the sentiment. It was played for laughs and even the "chase" was a gag with him hopping after her. I read the comments here before watching the episode and was expecting far worse - at the very least on the level of his grope on 18 and then got... that and found myself thinking 'that was it?'.

DBS is set in a universe with dinosaurs and spaceships but maybe someday they will have an episode where the women press charges on roshi and there is a huge scandal that ruins the reputation of kame house

As long as Japan writes for it it'll never happen - or at least in the way I'm guessing you want. If done it'll be a gag that at the end Bulma will bail him out of. I mean if you play it straight you'd imagine Bulma would have nothing to do with him considering their past and yet she keeps inviting him to their gatherings and he is still welcomed.

 

[Laiza]

That's all you took from my post?
Okay.

Well, let's see... your points seem to be that (paraphrased) "it's not as bad as you say it is", "Japan needs to deal with the issue internally", and "I don't think it was all that offensive and you shouldn't get all up in arms over it".

To which I say: No, I obviously disagree; I don't live in Japan and this is a thread specifically about Dragon Ball Super so I will criticize all elements from my perspective and my perspective alone; I am thoroughly disappointed by absolutely everyone who tries to downplay this kind of depiction and refuse to not get up in arms over it.

Also, it should be noted that Dragon Ball Super is an international franchise at this point, and so everything is fair game. Whether or not our words will ever reach this is an open question, but I don't think they can completely ignore us if there's a big enough reaction.

This is the same guy who was bribing Elder Kai with dirty pictures of Bulma in front of Vegeta.

As for this episode I can't really share the sentiment. It was played for laughs and even the "chase" was a gag with him hopping after her. I read the comments here before watching the episode and was expecting far worse - at the very least on the level of his grope on 18 and then got... that and found myself thinking 'that was it?'.

I don't understand.

At the very least, the implications of what he was going to do to her after "catching" her should be enough. That's hardly "gag" material in my eyes.

Maybe I'm just sensitive because I'm imagining it happening to me and getting skeeved the fuck out. Bleh. Doesn't matter either way, it's gross and we really didn't need to see it.

Of course not.

It look literally 20 years to get out of the saiyan only garbage the show had turned into, it's not to fall right back into it "omg so kewl look broly woooooo so powerful ! ".

Especially not with Pan and Bra being born and being the future. Meaning we're already getting woman saiyan bad asses we don't need all of them to be top tier.

18 hasn't shined in decades, it's her time to kick ass. And the engineer elf girl could be pretty interesting and have a pretty unique fighting style. 18 is the only girl on team 7 so she has to be one of the best girls over the new saiyan girls IMO.

I mean, hell, I don't disagree. The saiyans have gotten way too much attention over the years and we're well past due for a change in the principle cast.

It's just that, on my list of priorities, female fighters go way above non-saiyan fighters any day of the week. Just how I roll. Which, I guess, isn't really surprising coming from me, eh?

Unfortunately, I think the saiyans simply have too much momentum in this series for them to do something crazy like make Marron the new protagonist of the next generation. We're just going to have to accept that Dragon Ball is, to some degree, a show about saiyans. Them's the breaks.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Dragon Garow Lee mimics Toriyama's classic linework and detailing sooo much better than Toyotaro

Yeah, I've bought his Doujinshi where Vegeta comes to earth as a kid instead of Goku. Dude's really good.

Shame Yamcha let Vegeta live. What's up with that shadow guy at the end?

 

[Galactic Specter]

Goku is a selfish dumb-dumb head. Facepalmed for him doing nothing.

Goku is completely oblivious to sexual attraction and has a lot of respect for Roshi so he sees his harassment of women as him being a silly old coot.

 

[FreeMufasa]

If what you got out of the discussion is that people are "defending and justifying" Roshi's behavior then your reading comprehension is questionable.

Your post at the top of the page is literally you trying to normalize what happened. You basically said the sexual assault is okay because he paid for it by getting kicked in the nuts and talisman possessed.......wow..

 

[Astral Dog]

Roshi is such a dirty old man even Goku knows and goes away.XD

You don't have to rewrite Roshi. You just have to make it so that he "wins" less often (doesn't get to opportunity to be physical or even see anything) and/or the other characters call him out for this shit.

I thought this already happened except for maybe this one episode

 

[RareFantasy64]

Dragon Garow Lee mimics Toriyama's classic linework and detailing sooo much better than Toyotaro

Is this form that spin off Yamcha manga? Is the new chapter out?!?!?

WOLF FANG F-

*dead*

I know, I know. Yamcha isn't a main character. I don't expect or want him to be a contender against the big bad of the arc. But I like him. I think he deserves more credit and I think he deserves moments of glory.


Imagine if One Piece dropped Sanji (mysterious main character introduced early on with a thing for being silly around girls) and then completely dropped him for a Devil Fruit User (Saiyans). One Piece would have missed on so much by doing something like that. Yamcha, Tien, Chiaotzu and to a lesser extent Krillin and Piccolo didn't need to become irrelevant.


I'm fine with Yamcha always jobbing. But why was his jobbing compelling in early Dragon Ball? Because Yamcha was a noteworthy fighter. So when he loses to Master Roshi in the tournament and we see Goku has to fight him, it adds to the weight of Goku's underdog angle in the fight. When Tien breaks Yamcha's leg? We see Tien is really strong from that act.

I'm fine with Yamcha being quickly disbanded by the main threat. But why can't he get some victories in on the Big Bad's weaker teammates in the process of it? I think Super is on the right track. I think Toyotaro's recent illustration of Yamcha speaks volumes, especially as it was released during this time of the story where we see Yamcha is being excluded from the Tournament of Power team. Something is going on here and I'm excited for Yamcha

I mentioned the other day I had never watched the Saiyan Sage. I went back yesterday and watched the episode where Yamcha dies. Krillin states that Yamcha knew something unexpected may have happened against the Saibamen, and that thing may have been fatal. Krillin said that was why Yamcha wanted to fight first. He hadn't died yet. If Krillin had fought first and died to the unexpected self-destruction ability of the Saibamen, to their knowledge of Dragon Ball resources at their disposal, Krillin would have been permanently gone. That is a really touching act by Yamcha that I never see discussed

 

[NeonBlack]

Can we talk about whats important here? Gohan vs. Goku!!!!!

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Is this form that spin off Yamcha manga? Is the new chapter out?!?!?

That link *is* the new chapter lol

 

[Host Samurai]

Cool little episode that reminded me of OG Dragonball with the whole Asian mystical feel.