It worked out with Vegeta. Also, it's a better alternative to the universe being destroyed.
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Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.
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It worked out with Vegeta. Also, it's a better alternative to the universe being destroyed.
After he screwed them over how many times again?It worked out with Vegeta.
Freeza's probably #1 or #2 without his stamina issues. Wasn't it stated he's stronger than Blue, only that he can't maintain it because of said stamina issues?
Yep. Since then, Goku and Vegeta have gotten far stronger since then with all the time thats passed since then thanks to both of them having experienced the training leading up to the U6 v U7 tourney and then Vegeta taking at least two more trips to the RoSaT.
Chaotic-Strike
Banned
I bet Gohan fights Toppo considering their status among their universes.
Icyflamez96
Member
FREEZA MY FUCKIN MAN GET HYPE BOIS LETS DO DIS
high key
I mean I don't love Freiza really anymore but I do think it could make for super interesting conflict and interactions.
Freeza's probably #1 or #2 without his stamina issues. Wasn't it stated he's stronger than Blue, only that he can't maintain it because of said stamina issues?
All of this character power levels based on training/stamina/strength should be thrown out of the window after this arc, because characters are conveniently stronger/weaker depending on the story setup.
Gohan seemingly has a big focus on him this arc, so he is stronger than Freeza for now.
After he screwed them over how many times again?
All's well that ends well.
The geniuses may be able to do it more easily, but I'm not under the impression that you have to be a "genius" to do it at all.
The genius had to focus on that one spot, looking for one particular feeling, for a full 20 seconds, while knowing exactly what she was trying to do.
How is it a reasonable assumption that someone with the necessary power level (and no matter what you say there has to be some level of power required, unless you are equally upset that only one U7 Saiyan in the entire history of the Saiyan race had ever reached SSJ before Goku) would have done the exact thing they need to do to reach that level without a rage trigger for a minute or two without any reason for doing so.
How is this "less specific" than a god damned Kienzan?
Reizo Ryuu
Member
I understand that, which is why I'm not like "you're stupid for thinking otherwise".
The geniuses may be able to do it more easily, but I'm not under the impression that you have to be a "genius" to do it at all. I still think they explained it to be simple enough that it immediately came across to me as weird that no one in their race had figured it out yet. Because even with a countless amount of non geniuses like her, it feels like to me that someone should have still come across that, even if it is harder for them. They just made it seem that simple.
Well, we don't know how much of a factor cauli herself is in doing it as "easily".
Perhaps it's 20 seconds for her, but 5 hours for someone not as gifted, it's an unknown factor at this point.
And it's really cauli that makes it look easy, Cabba was even convinced you can't do it without getting angry first, because you'd be unfamiliar with the sensation until after you transform and get used to it.
And then when she does it anyway he keeps gushing about how awesome cauli is. This seems to me that cauli herself is pretty much a huge variable in doing it so easily, just like how goku himself is a huge variable in him learning the kaio-ken.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
so who's gohan fighting
Relevancy
I bet Gohan fights Toppo considering their status among their universes.
Leader vs. Leader. I can dig it.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Seriously, Goku?
Frieza?!
The same Frieza who caused the near extinction of your and Vegeta's race?
The same Frieza who terrorized Namek?
The same Frieza who killed Krillin?!
Need I go on?
Looking forward to how next week goes.
Who else?
https://youtu.be/23Tsgvby5L8?t=13s
Except to allow Boo to wake up before the tournament, apparently...Hyperbolic Time Chamber was better as a one time use thing. Breaking the 2 year limit trivializes time. It's practically the answer to everything these days.
So are we going to seeI love how it took us all this time to finally understand where super saiyan energy forms.
And to think it's easier than "Just get reeeaaaaaallly mad". Just gotta focus your energy in the Titan's weak point. Got it.
Eren go Super Titan
Seriously, Goku?
Frieza?!
The same Frieza who caused the near extinction of your and Vegeta's race?
The same Frieza who terrorized Namek?
The same Frieza who killed Krillin?!
Need I go on?
Looking forward to how next week goes.
It's not like Piccolo and Vegeta were much better tbh.
The only reason they failed is because they sucked not because they had a change of heart. That came later.
They're about to fight the strongest warriors of all universes, it makes sense to have Frieza, the strongest non god fighter they know of.
Why would Freeza have unlimited stamina? While goku was dead he certainly didn't have that, he could barely keep SSJ3 up.
It wouldn't be Dragon Ball without some major plot holes.Except to allow Boo to wake up before the tournament, apparently...
It's not like Piccolo and Vegeta were much better tbh.
Same deal with Yamcha/Puar, Oolong, Tien, Chaiotzu, 17 and 18, Buu, etc etc.
Basically every ally they have now besides Krillin and Roshi was a bad guy at some point.
SpiceMelange
Member
It's not like Piccolo and Vegeta were much better tbh.
The only reason they failed is because they sucked not because they had a change of heart. That came later.
They're about to fight the strongest warriors of all universes, it makes sense to have Frieza, the strongest non god fighter they know of.
Make sense for them, makes no sense for Freeza to accept it. The only term I think Freeza would accept is Goku to die and stay in the afterlife.
LSauchelli
Member
I'm pretty sure the namekians Vegeta killed in the Namek saga are still dead. At least the ones killed by Freezer and his men got resurrected.
Edit: Also, the people killed by both Piccolo Daimaoh and Buu didn't get resurrected that second time.
Almost everyone on the team was once a villain. Even Krillin used to be a prick.
Edit: Also, the people killed by both Piccolo Daimaoh and Buu didn't get resurrected that second time.
Almost everyone on the team was once a villain. Even Krillin used to be a prick.
Icyflamez96
Member
The genius had to focus on that one spot, looking for one particular feeling, for a full 20 seconds, while knowing exactly what she was trying to do.
How is it a reasonable assumption that someone with the necessary power level (and no matter what you say there has to be some level of power required, unless you are equally upset that only one U7 Saiyan in the entire history of the Saiyan race had ever reached SSJ before Goku) would have done the exact thing they need to do to reach that level without a rage trigger for a minute or two without any reason for doing so.
We don't know "what level of power" is needed, "no matter what you say". And the points you had before trying to argue such a thing did not help that stance at all. I addressed the argument and told you why they didn't help your point. So you just assuming that stance holds any kind of weight without even trying to provide further counterargument isn't exactly convincing. And no I don't take as much an issue with only one person before Goku achieving SSJ in U7.
How is this "less specific" than a god damned Kienzan?
We don't even know how the process behind making the destructo disc. It was never explained. We know what it does, obviously, but how to achieve the ability, we know nothing about. This latest episode actually explained the process to turning Super Saiyan, and revealed that it was "focusing energy on your back".
Well, we don't know how much of a factor cauli herself is in doing it as "easily".
Perhaps it's 20 seconds for her, but 5 hours for someone not as gifted, it's an unknown factor at this point.
And it's really cauli that makes it look easy, Cabba was even convinced you can't do it without getting angry first, because you'd be unfamiliar with the sensation until after you transform and get used to it.
And then when she does it anyway he keeps gushing about how awesome cauli is. This seems to me that cauli herself is pretty much a huge variable in doing it so easily, just like how goku himself is a huge variable in him learning the kaio-ken.
We don't. That's good justification for you. To me, the process being as straightforward as was explained, the whole deal came off as funny that even not even one of generations and generations of U6 Saiyans not as proficient as Caulifa have come across it.
EmCeeGramr
Member
On a slight tangent, I wonder if that bit about "if Zeno wants 10, then it's 10" means that we're not going to have teams of less than 10 and there's actually going to be 80 fighters, if some like U9 will get wiped out before the tournament even starts, or if we're going to have a scenario where some universes like U10 where most of the team is faceless mooks who we never get to actually see and are eliminated off screen.
Make sense for them, makes no sense for Freeza to accept it. The only term I think Freeza would accept is Goku to die and stay in the afterlife.
Frieza's choices are :
- Stay in hell forever
- Face complete obliteration, in which case, if that is preferable to hell, he should participate and make sure U7 loses
- Come back to life with a chance to find some loophole to potentially come back in the future, and even if the chances are limited, it beats being in hell
Plus we don't know but they might offer him to simply be sent to his original homeworld's hell. It was mentioned the fairy hell is Earth's
SpiceMelange
Member
Frieza's choices are :
- Stay in hell forever
- Face complete obliteration, in which case, if that is preferable to hell, he should participate and make sure U7 loses
- Come back to life with a chance to find some loophole to potentially come back in the future, and even if the chances are limited, it beats being in hell
Plus we don't know but they might offer him to simply be sent to his original homeworld's hell. It was mentioned the fairy hell is Earth's
If he stay in hell forever it means he and Goku dies from the universe being erased. The way Freeza's character is written he would gladly destroy everything if that means he takes Goku with him. Since his death on Namek is he completely obsessed with killing Goku. The only way I think Freeza would join their cause is if he gets the cake and eat it too; get out of hell and Goku dies. Him backstabbing U7 could be cool but I doubt the writers will do this to be honest.
Seriously, Goku?
Frieza?!
The same Frieza who caused the near extinction of your and Vegeta's race?
The same Frieza who terrorized Namek and blew it and Earth up?
The same Frieza who killed Krillin?!
Need I go on?
Looking forward to how next week goes.
Well, he's friends with Beerus, who hired Frieza to do that.
Also Piccolo, Vegeta, and Buu all killed Goku's friends.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
We don't. That's good justification for you. To me, the process being as straightforward as was explained, the whole deal came off as funny that even not even one of generations and generations of U6 Saiyans not as proficient as Caulifa have come across it.
It only looks straightforward because of cauli.
Cabba was convinced you can't do it without experiencing the transformation first, he tells her this straight to her face.
And then he smiles in a 'lol that's cute' way when she tries it anyway. That smile quickly turns into surprise and amazement when she finds the sensation on her own.
I dunno, with all of cabba's dialogue it really doesn't seem like it's a straightforward process, just because he explained the sensation.
The entire scene was kinda setup to be: "this cauli girl has insane potential"; she even generates that 'broly-like' energy effortlessly, but seems surprised that she did it.
The scene was less about "lol ssj so easy" and more "be on the lookout for this saiyan girl during the tournament, she's mad powerful yo!".
On a slight tangent, I wonder if that bit about "if Zeno wants 10, then it's 10" means that we're not going to have teams of less than 10 and there's actually going to be 80 fighters, if some like U9 will get wiped out before the tournament even starts, or if we're going to have a scenario where some universes like U10 where most of the team is faceless mooks who we never get to actually see and are eliminated off screen.
Yeah that'll probably be their out for those who can't gather 10
It only looks straightforward because of cauli.
Cabba was convinced you can't do it without experiencing the transformation first, he tells her this straight to her face.
And then he smiles in a 'lol that's cute' way when she tries it anyway. That smile quickly turns into surprise and amazement when she finds the sensation on her own.
I dunno, with all of cabba's dialogue it really doesn't seem like it's a straightforward process, just because he explained the sensation.
The entire scene was kinda setup to be: "this cauli girl has insane potential"; she even generates that 'broly-like' energy effortlessly, but seems surprised that she did it.
The scene was less about "lol ssj so easy" and more "be on the lookout for this saiyan girl during the tournament, she's mad powerful yo!".
It's interesting because she's the second character we've seen use that particular effect with their energy blasts. Gohan did it in when he punked Tien.
3 can't be obtained naturally so no.
Such a thing has never been stated within the manga. That is fandom.
If he stay in hell forever it means he and Goku dies from the universe being erased. The way Freeza's character is written he would gladly destroy everything if that means he takes Goku with him. Since his death on Namek is he completely obsessed with killing Goku. The only way I think Freeza would join their cause is if he gets the cake and eat it too; get out of hell and Goku dies. Him backstabbing U7 could be cool but I doubt the writers will do this to be honest.
That is exactly where I think this is headed though.
Icyflamez96
Member
It only looks straightforward because of cauli.
Cabba was convinced you can't do it without experiencing the transformation first, he tells her this straight to her face.
And then he smiles in a 'lol that's cute' way when she tries it anyway. That smile quickly turns into surprise and amazement when she finds the sensation on her own.
I dunno, with all of cabba's dialogue it really doesn't seem like it's a straightforward process, just because he explained the sensation.
The entire scene was kinda setup to be: "this cauli girl has insane potential"; she even generates that 'broly-like' energy effortlessly, but seems surprised that she did it.
The scene was less about "lol ssj so easy" and more "be on the lookout for this saiyan girl during the tournament, she's mad powerful yo!".
Well It'll be interesting to see how Kale gets it, and if she's supposed to be a genius too.
That is exactly where I think this is headed though.
It'd be a pretty awesome development and would make the whole thing worthwhile. They can't just have Freeza face-turn like they did Piccolo and Vegeta, it would be bullshit.
Well It'll be interesting to see how Kale gets it, and if she's supposed to be a genius too.
She's the Broly, so she probably won't be able to control it very well once transformed.
We don't know "what level of power" is needed, "no matter what you say". And the points you had before trying to argue such a thing did not help that stance at all. I addressed the argument and told you why they didn't help your point. So you just assuming that stance holds any kind of weight without even trying to provide further counterargument isn't exactly convincing. And no I don't take as much an issue with only one person before Goku achieving SSJ in U7.
Why not? All of the Saiyans throughout history and only one has ever been mad enough to go SSJ before Goku? That's just silly, isn't it? I mean it's much, much more likely for a race of hyper violent warriors to get really fucking pissed off than it is for a different race of peaceful warriors to find the exact spot on their body wherein to focus their energy in order to do who the fuck knows what since none of them know they can transform.
U9 would probably be forced to have a bunch of useless mooks to fill up the teamOn a slight tangent, I wonder if that bit about "if Zeno wants 10, then it's 10" means that we're not going to have teams of less than 10 and there's actually going to be 80 fighters, if some like U9 will get wiped out before the tournament even starts, or if we're going to have a scenario where some universes like U10 where most of the team is faceless mooks who we never get to actually see and are eliminated off screen.
Icyflamez96
Member
Why not? All of the Saiyans throughout history and only one has ever been mad enough to go SSJ before Goku? That's just silly, isn't it? I mean it's much, much more likely for a race of hyper violent warriors to get really fucking pissed off than it is for a different race of peaceful warriors to find the exact spot on their body wherein to focus their energy in order to do who the fuck knows what since none of them know they can transform.
Because they had that the "pure heart" requirement or whatever it was. U7 Saiyans were universally just savages save for some exception.
She's the Broly, so she probably won't be able to control it very well once transformed.
Oh I know, but she also has a form that seems to come before "Broly" going by the artwork released of her.
SolicitorPirate
Member
She's the Broly, so she probably won't be able to control it very well once transformed.
I'd imagine that's how they'll keep Caulifla and Kale roughly on par with each other. Kale has the advantage in sheer power, but Caulifla is a Goku-style fighting genius who adapts and improvises very quickly.
I mean U6 saiyans seem to have a way higher base without god training whereas Goku still wasn't stronger than Frieza in his base form if Beerus is to go by, guess U6 siayans are just better especially with them evolving out of their tails
I mean, the show has been playing fast and loose with base forms for a while now.
Orochinagis
Member
Oh I know, but she also has a form that seems to come before "Broly" going by the artwork released of her.
Yup, she have that greenish hair and aura in her transformation
I know pl are bullshit, akira forgot blah blah blah trying to justify itI mean, the show has been playing fast and loose with base forms for a while now.
Icyflamez96
Member
Yup, she have that greenish hair and aura in her transformation
how the hell did you change my name to slaythe LMAO
how the hell did you change my name to slaythe LMAO
I was questioning what was happening.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Cauli's ssj theme is pretty dope.
I think it can go 3 ways:
1. She's gifted, but her DNA is simply "different".
2. She already triggered the transformation before, but kept it hidden because she's scared of it.
3. She's not gifted, she tries it but realises she made a huge mistake.
Well It'll be interesting to see how Kale gets it, and if she's supposed to be a genius too.
I think it can go 3 ways:
1. She's gifted, but her DNA is simply "different".
2. She already triggered the transformation before, but kept it hidden because she's scared of it.
3. She's not gifted, she tries it but realises she made a huge mistake.
Cauli's ssj theme is pretty dope.
I think it can go 3 ways:
1. She's gifted, but her DNA is simply "different".
2. She already triggered the transformation before, but kept it hidden because she's scared of it.
3. She's not gifted, she tries it but realises she made a huge mistake.
4. "I did it!" "Hmm, you don't seem as strong as you should be." "The fuck you say to me, boy!?"
Also does Kale not like Cabba
she was smiling when he was getting chewed out
she was smiling when he was getting chewed out
According to the previews pretty much yeah4. "I did it!" "Hmm, you don't seem as strong as you should be." "The fuck you say to me, boy!?"
Icyflamez96
Member
I mean, the show has been playing fast and loose with base forms for a while now.
Not really. Base can be however strong it's been trained to be. Transformations increase your power from base.
Unless we talking about Gohan shenanigans. I'm still somewhat confused on Mystic.
I think it can go 3 ways:
1. She's gifted, but her DNA is simply "different".
2. She already triggered the transformation before, but kept it hidden because she's scared of it.
3. She's not gifted, she tries it but realises she made a huge mistake.
Number 2 seems fitting.
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