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Dragon Ball Super |OT9| Genki-Drama
- Thread starter ArchedThunder
- Start date
I'll admit it, I was wrong about everything I said. All plot points got resolved in that short time, including the erasing of universes by Zeno being evil, and it was satisfying enough. I just wish the characters would have voiced their dislike for a God who would do that for their entertainment, it was like they didn't include that in because the writers knew the conclusion so why bother.
Overall tournament of power had some great moments but most of the time it felt like it dragged along. Too many fights with annoying fodder characters no one cares about. Best moments were whenever Frieza and 17 had screentime.
I really wonder what will happen with Frieza, I can't really think of a future role for him. They've already done pretty much everything they could have with him/her. Maybe now that Frost is back, he becomes super powerful and golden just to get his revenge on Frieza and goes as far as wiping out Universe 7, forcing the Z squad to team up with Frieza again.
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Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
No need for spoiler tags.
WhiskeyDiver
Member
I was perusing the episode 131 thread on reddit, and several people were saying Goku lost Ultra Instinct, and I even saw mention of Vegeta not being able to go SSJ2B/Strengthened SSB or whatever. I wan't to know how they "lost" those forms. Sure, Goku can't go UI at will yet, but he still has the form. He's used it and seemingly mastered it within a 48 minute span of real time. I'm pretty sure he can attain the ability to use the transformation again at will with more training. And Vegeta shouldn't have a problem with attaining his current highest form again either.
As for the episode itself, it was full of awesome animation. The last few episodes definitely cost a lot more than the average price of production for a DBS episode. The overall flow of the episode was good as well. The fight was amazing. The granted wish was predictable, all universes restored, but the winner being 17 is actually a shocker. Also, I don't really see the point of reviving Frieza. In his current state, he would get destroyed by Vegeta or Goku no problem. The current power gap between him and those two is massive. I'm sure if he's used in a future arc, it will be as a patsy to another big baddy, or he will find the key to attaining Zeno levels of power or some shit like that.
Overall it was a good intermission to the Dragon Ball franchise. They obviously made it clear that this wasn't the end of Dragon Ball in a series style format. The movie comes out in around 8.5 months or so. After that, we either get another movie the next year, or we get a continuation from Dragon Ball super onward. At the end of it all Dragon Ball GT will still be an alternate universe timeline bastard child that nobody mentions.
As for the episode itself, it was full of awesome animation. The last few episodes definitely cost a lot more than the average price of production for a DBS episode. The overall flow of the episode was good as well. The fight was amazing. The granted wish was predictable, all universes restored, but the winner being 17 is actually a shocker. Also, I don't really see the point of reviving Frieza. In his current state, he would get destroyed by Vegeta or Goku no problem. The current power gap between him and those two is massive. I'm sure if he's used in a future arc, it will be as a patsy to another big baddy, or he will find the key to attaining Zeno levels of power or some shit like that.
Overall it was a good intermission to the Dragon Ball franchise. They obviously made it clear that this wasn't the end of Dragon Ball in a series style format. The movie comes out in around 8.5 months or so. After that, we either get another movie the next year, or we get a continuation from Dragon Ball super onward. At the end of it all Dragon Ball GT will still be an alternate universe timeline bastard child that nobody mentions.
Codes 208
Member
Goku constantly flicking back and forth between base and super saiyan near the climax was actually a nice touch. And the ending being goku and vegeta reprising their stances in the battlefield. Mhhh nostalgia.
Overall while i would argue its not better than the og dragonball's ending (which was a short and sweet ending with the wedding of goku and chi-chi) its still better than DBZ and GT's endings.
Overall while i would argue its not better than the og dragonball's ending (which was a short and sweet ending with the wedding of goku and chi-chi) its still better than DBZ and GT's endings.
pramod
Banned
Yeah, kinda makes no sense that the winner of the Universal Survival, the new fan favorite DBZ character, isn't even in DBZ Fighterz. He better be in the next patch/download.
longdi
Banned
My main gripe is the powerups achieved during Top, felt a bit too easy and too fast, kinda invalidate their struggles in all older arcs.
Goku was the most powerfulest with MUI, and they recon it by making it no more, lol. Jiren reminds the strongest while Geets remain relevant.
I don't see Froze being brought back?
Goku was the most powerfulest with MUI, and they recon it by making it no more, lol. Jiren reminds the strongest while Geets remain relevant.
I don't see Froze being brought back?
TTOOLL
Member
The finale had the best fight (more grounded) and was also the best episode. Really a gigantic surprise for me.
I hate when fights are just flashes of light and this one was easy to follow and made sense.
I want more, I know Super as a whole had terrible moments but this ending made me wish for more. Crazy.
Well, maybe because this theories you pointed are pure trash and have no ground in DBZ reality.
Edit3:
People reacting in Sobral, Brazil. The chants of "Freeza" gave me goosebumps lololol
I hate when fights are just flashes of light and this one was easy to follow and made sense.
I want more, I know Super as a whole had terrible moments but this ending made me wish for more. Crazy.
Well, maybe because this theories you pointed are pure trash and have no ground in DBZ reality.
Edit3:
People reacting in Sobral, Brazil. The chants of "Freeza" gave me goosebumps lololol
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Vicetrailia
Member
Freeza is not stronger than Goku or Vegeta. They also didn't say that vegeta couldn't go blue2, so it's best to assume that he can.
If they fought Toppo again they could beat him, but would lose to jiren.
If they fought Toppo again they could beat him, but would lose to jiren.
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I think I enjoyed 130 a bit better than this episode and the ending really makes it feel like a movie. I thought the 17 choice was okay but weird since they have dragon balls on earth. Like seriously why do any of the z fighters live in poverty when they could just find the dragon balls with bulma's help. The ending does make me think though if the wish of all the universes that were erased to be restored includes the one that were erased before. That would give everyone new enemies. Another thing that always bothers me is Saiyan's traveled all over the universe quite possibly living on other planets beside planet vegeta. Why are there so few them. Granted the new movie is suppose to be a new saiyan that they fight but still there should still be like 100's if not thousands of saiyans all over.
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Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
You can't possibly believe shenron would be able to grant that wish...Porunga is more powerful than shenron and he had a difficult time restoring earth after kid buu destroyed it.
Freeza recalled them all.
None of those theories were cool.
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Its basically the same story as Superman. Just with the difference that Freezer destroyed them all and tried to gather every still living Sayajin under his flag.
The problem I have with that is that it is a whole world of people and spanning possibly several galaxies how do you make sure you got all of them. We already are aware that they missed at least 4 of them because they were out fighting. Like how do you know that someone didn't just decide to train on some planet, take a vacation of slaughter, or didn't like how King Vegeta was ruling them and decided to bounce and create their own country on a different planet. This doesn't even include the Saiyan's in the movie.
Codes 208
Member
With a touch of star wars. Freeza had Dodoria and Zarbon hunt down other remaining saiyans (such as bardock's group)
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Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
It's an army, I'm sure they have logs, heck scouters are pretty much black boxes.
The only reason goku wasn't included in the survivor logs, was because he was sent off at the very last moment. Gine only tells Raditz about it.
Gine also wondered why they couldn't just escape with goku, but bardock says they can't because "they'll be found with the scouters", which might mean that every one in freeza's army can have their energy signature tracked from wherever, or they have some sort of implant.
Also there were only a few thousand saiyans.
Not even close really, Beerus should still stomp fairly easily.
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LordOfChaos
Member
2) Lol wtf 18, man just undid the genocide of trillions and you're making sure he doesn't want a boat instead?
3) One letdown, the forgetting of Hit, not even a line after resurrection about getting as strong as Goku again
I'm satisfied, and ok with taking a hiatus until the movie and beyond. It's been a ride.
RokkanStoned
Member
Disappointing, Goku's whole thing is striving to become stronger. I would've assumed he would seek to surpass Beerus, considering how we know about levels higher than Beerus. Like Whis is more powerful than Beerus.
I assume he's going to get there eventually, like he did in Dragon Ball in terms of Master Roshi. But I hate the wait, especially with Toriyama seemingly not having any plans for him and Vegeta to overtake him soon. I guess the new move will add something additional with the Saiyan focus, but considering the scope of powers we know, I kind of want more progress.
Laughed at everyone getting Goku to avoid bringing them into another thing during the talk with Zeno.
LordOfChaos
Member
Please let there be continual gags like this next series
Codes 208
Member
Lol i get. But realistically, wouldnt jiren be disqualified from accepting the senzu bean which is forbidden?
2) Lol wtf 18, man just undid the genocide of trillions and you're making sure he doesn't want a boat instead?
3) One letdown, the forgetting of Hit, not even a line after resurrection about getting as strong as Goku again
I'm satisfied, and ok with taking a hiatus until the movie and beyond. It's been a ride.
Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
Also thanks to the latest manga chapter we finally know why dr rota is called a doctor.
witch doctor, spells, magic etc.
generaldane
Banned
I for the life of me can't understand why people want Goku becoming stronger than Beerus
Yeah people really seem to love freeza now
It will be interesting where this is going. Will he now join the team or stay evil? None or less Frezza was fantastic during the whole arc
RokkanStoned
Member
Because that's Goku's whole shtick. He always seeks a more powerful opponent, he's always pushing the limits. The new movie itself even tells it "A Saiyan has no limits". Beerus is just another step.
pramod
Banned
Did anyone understand that exchange Frieza had with Goku before the final fight? So Frieza wanted Goku to reassure him that he will use the Super Dragon Balls to resurrect him...and then they proceed to both sacrifice themselves to defeat Jiren....so if they were both going to be eliminated, how would Goku be able to resurrect him? That part sort of confused me. I thought Frieza was trying to tell Goku to stay back and that he would take on Jiren by himself?
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Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
I wouldn't exactly call it Goku's "shtick".
His thing is that he likes fighting strong opponents. At the end of the buu saga, goku was vastly weaker than gohan and he hadn't actually won a real fight since he beat freeza on namek.
In fact I don't think goku has beaten anyone worth noting since; freeza might count but that was thanks to whis turning back time, he kinda tied with hit's rematch, tied with toppo, tied with freeza.
Oh I guess he did beat Kefla, though in a non tournament setting I'm not so sure he could've beaten her.
Also toriyama straight up said he had no plans of goku surpassing beerus. He might change his mind, but that's what it is currently.
I am pretty they said in the beginning that they would do it with the Earth Dragonballs not the super ones. Goku would have never agreed to it otherwise sincs it was clear that he will resurrect the whole universes
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Here is something I watched yesterday. It is about the whole direction and artstyle and which people were involved in the whole episode. I did for example not know that Megumi Ishitani who was the director of the last episode just graduated from University in 2015. But other than her involvement you also have a lot of people for single scenes which is really interesting.
2) Lol wtf 18, man just undid the genocide of trillions and you're making sure he doesn't want a boat instead?
3) One letdown, the forgetting of Hit, not even a line after resurrection about getting as strong as Goku again
I'm satisfied, and ok with taking a hiatus until the movie and beyond. It's been a ride.
lol, this made my day! XD
~sbobet
LordOfChaos
Member
Does anyone remember that several dozens of Namekians merged into two to win the tournament...And that planet Sidra had to destroy after it succumbed to rioting after learning of the tournament...
Sick prank there Zeno, lol
Sick prank there Zeno, lol
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strange headache
Banned
I'm truly satisfied with how the show ended. To be quite frank, I'm glad DBS stuck with its roots and didn't fulfill any of the shitty fan theories (like Zeno and the Grand Priest being evil, or Frieza betraying them all). DB is and has always been a tale of forming friendship through animosity and that's exactly what we got from the finale.
With the exception of Cell, every major enemy ended up becoming an ally and that, for me, is the true strength of Goku. Seeing him and Frieza teaming up was a joy to behold. It was nice to see Jiren coming to terms with his past, learning to trust his mates and bonding with Toppo for the first time.
I also liked that Zeno and the Grand Priest didn't wipe out the other universes for their mere pleasure. They knew that whoever would win the tournament, would be selfless enough to bring back the other universes. For me, DB has always had an optimistic outlook on human nature and a strong message that struggling for what is right, despite all odds, is in and of itself deemed the most valuable of all causes.
Despite all its flaws, I'm glad that DBS stuck with that message and didn't try to be subversive just for the sake of being subversive. If you take that message away from DB, it's not DB anymore and I'm happy to see that the producers understood that.
The finale gave me that warm and fuzzy nostalgic feeling I got from watching DB a long time ago. It was, in short, everything I wanted it do be.
With the exception of Cell, every major enemy ended up becoming an ally and that, for me, is the true strength of Goku. Seeing him and Frieza teaming up was a joy to behold. It was nice to see Jiren coming to terms with his past, learning to trust his mates and bonding with Toppo for the first time.
I also liked that Zeno and the Grand Priest didn't wipe out the other universes for their mere pleasure. They knew that whoever would win the tournament, would be selfless enough to bring back the other universes. For me, DB has always had an optimistic outlook on human nature and a strong message that struggling for what is right, despite all odds, is in and of itself deemed the most valuable of all causes.
Despite all its flaws, I'm glad that DBS stuck with that message and didn't try to be subversive just for the sake of being subversive. If you take that message away from DB, it's not DB anymore and I'm happy to see that the producers understood that.
The finale gave me that warm and fuzzy nostalgic feeling I got from watching DB a long time ago. It was, in short, everything I wanted it do be.
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Codes 208
Member
Freeza wanted to win so he could revive himself. He wanted goku to realize he still has a deal so that he'd intentionally sacrifice himself to beat jiren. But freeza couldnt do it alone so at the very last second goku made a final push so that they could beat him together.
-Minsc-
Member
I feel this is a good place for me to largely leave behind Dragonball. Memories from my late teens and early twenties brought me in to Super. Continuing to follow the show from week to week is only going to ruin my enjoyment. From now on watching the occasional clip here and there from whatever comes next will be enough to tickle my fancy. Life moves on forward.
Also he never had someone he can trust or who would keep their promises. So he was unsure and "scared" Goku would break his deal because he also did betray him.
WaterAstro
Member
Well, the wish was probably the most obvious plot twist. I didn't like Jiren's sudden burst of power again, coming out of nowhere. Whatever though. The whole tournament was bleh.
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
I knew someone would kamikaze their way out of the tournament, just not at the final blow.
LordOfChaos
Member
At least I guess it adds some consistency to Vegeta and Goku constantly being pushed to "out of stamina", and then 2 seconds of tournament time later being at SSB or higher again.
With Jiren it said he was "over his issues", I guess being more emotionally daunted then completely out of stamina.
LordOfChaos
Member
The manga version of the hit fight made a lot more sense as expected, but also even more unceremoniously short for Hit.
His time attack was a slowdown multiplier, so from Jirens point of view Hit started moving super fast, but Jiren was just playing and powered up and sped up more than the slowdown.
In the anime it was "hah, I trapped you in time!" "Oh shit, Jiren is faster than time!", which may have been a translation thing but it was weird.
His time attack was a slowdown multiplier, so from Jirens point of view Hit started moving super fast, but Jiren was just playing and powered up and sped up more than the slowdown.
In the anime it was "hah, I trapped you in time!" "Oh shit, Jiren is faster than time!", which may have been a translation thing but it was weird.
pramod
Banned
Now that Super is over (or at least this particular arc), I'm looking back at all the Dragonball arcs and realized that compared to them Super is probably the most unfocused and doesn't seem to have a general theme. Not to say that it's the worst, but if you look back at the other previous arcs/sagas, although a lot of stuff happened they all seemed to have a particular focus. The original Dragonball was the story of Goku becoming the most powerful warrior. The Frieza and Android sagas I would argue are mostly about Gohan growing up, and also Vegeta's development into an anti-hero. The Buu saga was a bit of a mess, but I think overall the story revolved around Mr. Satan and Buu himself.
But Super....looking over all the stuff that happened it's hard to pin down one major theme or character...it was all over the place. Sure Goku again was the guy who had the major fights like he always does, but he wasn't really the focus of the story I think. Maybe it was Frieza? He came back from the dead to conquer the unvierse and then at the conclusion he had a hand in saving the universe from destruction.
But Super....looking over all the stuff that happened it's hard to pin down one major theme or character...it was all over the place. Sure Goku again was the guy who had the major fights like he always does, but he wasn't really the focus of the story I think. Maybe it was Frieza? He came back from the dead to conquer the unvierse and then at the conclusion he had a hand in saving the universe from destruction.
LordOfChaos
Member
Watching the English dub as it comes out for a rewatch and...Honestly, Super wasn't terribly good until the ToP, and then even that could have portions removed while others needed more time for expansion.
That's why I'm fine with the break, I hope it comes back with Supers peak as a baseline.
A free for all tournament was a bad idea in my opinion when you have it right off the bat. They should have done a one on one matches then had the free for all for like the top 10 or so simply because the 2 kids got tired of watching the matches. I do think the lack of focus from no main bad guy hurt the show and if they were trying to harken back to the original db tournament days then they should have had a training adventure before the tournametnt. I also think that the lack of the other db characters watching and commenting on the tournament weakened it a bit as well. I would have loved to see the wives and kids reaction as the tournament was going on. The threat of erasing goku's universe was just too weak since we knew it was never going to happen so you didn't feel a sense of they really need to do their best to win this tournament.
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The Goku Black Arc was clearly all about future Trunks (he was the main character in that arc, and ultimately the one to defeat Fused Zamasu), but yeah I agree everything else just seemed like they were throwing stuff against the wall to see what would stick without any real common theme to bring it all together. The original DB and even DBZ were mainly focused on Goku and company growing as characters by defeating the big baddie by the end of that arc. This one didn't really have that besides Frieza and Zamasu.
The introduction of SSJ Blue didn't really feel that special, since there didn't seem to be much different between the Blue transformations and previous SSJ forms other than the hair colour. It wasn't until Ultra Instinct that we really got a transformation that felt different from any other ones Goku has achieved. The idea of alternate universes was cool, but that felt kind of shoe horned in simply for the ToP arc. It would have been better if we saw story arcs where Goku and company traveled a bit to the other universes, so we can get to know the characters in the other universes better before the ToP, which would have made the ToP arc more meaningful. Even Jiren wasn't much of an interesting "villain" because of it, and I put that in quotations because he actually wasn't really one, even if he sorta acted like it at the end.
Shouta
Member
Dragon Ball has always been pretty scattershot when it comes to story and themes. It's never really coalesced into something that's the main draw. Toriyama's amazing ability to create tension and action from moment to moment is really what makes DB, DB. Pretty much all of the non-Toriyama DB content fails there and that means we don't have anything that lets us look past the other failings with the series.
Super does a great job of expanding on characters in meaningful ways and I'm a little sad that they didn't focus on that more to make it the real draw for the series.
Super does a great job of expanding on characters in meaningful ways and I'm a little sad that they didn't focus on that more to make it the real draw for the series.
Codes 208
Member
Honestly now that its been months since the show ended. I can say that overall super has about as many issues as it has highs. For starters the first two arcs were just retellings of the superior movies. Alongside that the animation doesnt get that much better until small segments of the black arc and then the ToP arc.
ToP arc also ran a lot longer than i wouldve liked with 48 mins in db time being drawn out just like the 5 mins on namek.
Of the original villains/antqgonists, the only few i generally liked were Black (just black, F zamasu), Hit and Caulifla. The rest were just...there. Jiren's trope background of basically being like all anime tragic characters combined with no true conclusion just made him cardboard. Same with Toppa. Just meh, and even then theyre still the end game antagonists.
So suffice to say, im more glad its over than sad. And i would certainly pick DBZ abd DB over it. (But not GT. GT is nothing but trash but its ok because its no longer canon.)
The manga so far has been great however. Much more fluid and to the point.
ToP arc also ran a lot longer than i wouldve liked with 48 mins in db time being drawn out just like the 5 mins on namek.
Of the original villains/antqgonists, the only few i generally liked were Black (just black, F zamasu), Hit and Caulifla. The rest were just...there. Jiren's trope background of basically being like all anime tragic characters combined with no true conclusion just made him cardboard. Same with Toppa. Just meh, and even then theyre still the end game antagonists.
So suffice to say, im more glad its over than sad. And i would certainly pick DBZ abd DB over it. (But not GT. GT is nothing but trash but its ok because its no longer canon.)
The manga so far has been great however. Much more fluid and to the point.
hikarutilmitt
Member
I have to wonder, do other universe have different physics? Or at least enough of a difference to throw things off and have to get used to it. I know the stage in the void was made so that everyone felt like their native gravity/environment, so imagine going to other places that have naturally different atmospheric conditions and they have to deal with that.
Keylime
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
So I was able to watch the entirety of Dragonball Super because I only starting watching it while it was literally on it's final couple episodes, so I just crammed the entire series in a few weeks.
I thought it was really enjoyable overall. I can definitely tell that if I had to wait a week between episodes that I would have really soured to the whole thing. There were quite a few episodes, even during the final tournament, that felt really fluffy and wasteful (basically anything with love planet, most notably).
My favorite moments were largely watching Whis and Beerus eating food and seeing the limits of what a Saiyan can do keep getting stretched more and more. I thought Hit was the shit, and I wish Freeza's gold form looked cooler.
The only thing that ever bothers me somewhat is this whole "power hiding" thing. Where people will go at each other and not ultimately power up to max until an episode or two later to REALLY fight. Like dude, we KNOW you both have more shit in your arsenal, just get there. It's more forgivable for Goku since that's kind of his shtick, but like EVERYONE does it save for Vegata.
Was quite happy with the whole thing, glad I watched it.
I thought it was really enjoyable overall. I can definitely tell that if I had to wait a week between episodes that I would have really soured to the whole thing. There were quite a few episodes, even during the final tournament, that felt really fluffy and wasteful (basically anything with love planet, most notably).
My favorite moments were largely watching Whis and Beerus eating food and seeing the limits of what a Saiyan can do keep getting stretched more and more. I thought Hit was the shit, and I wish Freeza's gold form looked cooler.
The only thing that ever bothers me somewhat is this whole "power hiding" thing. Where people will go at each other and not ultimately power up to max until an episode or two later to REALLY fight. Like dude, we KNOW you both have more shit in your arsenal, just get there. It's more forgivable for Goku since that's kind of his shtick, but like EVERYONE does it save for Vegata.
Was quite happy with the whole thing, glad I watched it.
