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[Odnetnin]

As topic mentioned. Between Nintendo pulling the Metroid Demo + downloadable game demos + supposed cheaper pressing costs than GBA carts; I was wondering if anyone had firm numbers for DS pressing costs and also PSP UMD costs. Don't have to get into licensing fees if it gets too delicate but if someone can fill in how much DS carts cost to me (plus also to subsequently upsize); as the cart technology (wafer?) is upgradable as opposed to the UMD's fixed storage.

Any link to DS cart/wafer technology would be great too.

 

[neptunes]

 

[jarrod]

The only firm numbers I've seen for 3DM is that last fall Mattel paid $9 for a 64MB rom in quantities of 1000. Nintendo likely pays much less, being one of Matrix's key investors and ordering in higher quantities (price scales down for larger orders)... I'd imagine likely around $4-5 for 32-64MB roms right now. As time goes on and manufacturing ramps up more, price steadily goes down. Matrix has said time and again they see 3DM as being a disposably cheap format, making examples like consumers using 3DM similar to film or 3DM cards given away free with magazines.

I sort of find it hard to belive UMD is actually cheaper than DVD though, given the extra plastic casing and the fact that DVD's production infastructure is already well cemented. It certainly doesn't cost $2-$3 to manufacture a DVD though, so maybe SCEI's quoting startup costs? Or maybe it's just typical "Sony math"?

 

[Chittagong]

The only firm numbers I've seen for 3DM is that last fall Mattel paid $9 for a 64MB rom in quantities of 1000. Nintendo likely pays much less, being one of Matrix's key investors and ordering in higher quantities (price scales down for larger orders)... I'd imagine likely around $4-5 for 32-64MB roms right now. As time goes on and manufacturing ramps up more, price steadily goes down. Matrix has said time and again they see 3DM as being a disposably cheap format, making examples like consumers using 3DM similar to film or 3DM cards given away free with magazines.

I sort of find it hard to belive UMD is actually cheaper than DVD though, given the extra plastic casing and the fact that DVD's production infastructure is already well cemented. It certainly doesn't cost $2-$3 to manufacture a DVD though, so maybe SCEI's quoting startup costs? Or maybe it's just typical "Sony math"?

Unfortunately Matrix memory being disposably cheap has so far been only marketing talk. Compared to SD or MMC, it is only marginally cheaper in large quantities currently. Although I would love to see an affordably priced solid-state media, I just don't see it happening soon. Have you checked out the sizes of DS games? They are very small. I don't thing we have seen even a 64MB game yet on DS. Pathway To Glory for Ngage was 64MB if I recall correctly.

 

[Sho Nuff]

I guess I can believe that -- it's just optical media in a funky size in cheap plastic (with no gate, might I add).

DS carts are still pricey to press, however. The DS's pricing/licensing combo is almost the same as the GBA from what I gather.

 

[fse]

DS cards are really cheap, more so than UMDs.

 

[mrklaw]

forget how much they cost to manufacture. How much are Nintendo and Sony charging games publishers for finished, boxed goods. Thats manufacturing, duplication and license fee etc.

I'd also be interested if anyone had any license cost numbers for UMD movies.

 

[Chittagong]

forget how much they cost to manufacture. How much are Nintendo and Sony charging games publishers for finished, boxed goods. Thats manufacturing, duplication and license fee etc.

I'd also be interested if anyone had any license cost numbers for UMD movies.

That's a good point. The only ones who care of the actual manufacturing cost are Sony and Nintendo, it pretty much defines the overall profitability of the platform. Publishers care only about platform fee.

 

[Naked Snake]

Wasn't there something about paper-based UMDs?

 

[Chittagong]

Wasn't there something about paper-based UMDs?

I remember seeing this too. Although I think it has more to do the fact that the paper or pulp or whatever it's made of is more environmentally friendly to dispose. I don't see a dramatic cost impact, since my guess is that the material is not the cost driver for UMD price, but the work needed to press one, and this wouldn't disappear with paper as the raw material.

 

[Suikoguy]

DS cards are really cheap, more so than UMDs.

What planet are you from?
I find that hard to belive considering that image that places the cost of a UMD between a DVD 1 and 2 layer

 

[jarrod]

Unfortunately Matrix memory being disposably cheap has so far been only marketing talk. Compared to SD or MMC, it is only marginally cheaper in large quantities currently. Although I would love to see an affordably priced solid-state media, I just don't see it happening soon. Have you checked out the sizes of DS games? They are very small. I don't thing we have seen even a 64MB game yet on DS. Pathway To Glory for Ngage was 64MB if I recall correctly.

Yeah, but the technoloy is still pretty newish, production hasn't even been in place a year yet. Considering that, I'd say it's pretty impressive what Matrix has achieved so far... I'm eager to see where 3DM is a year from now.

As far as DS games, I'm not sure what sizes most are... I only know of 3 so far (Mario 64 & First Hunt are 16MB, Asphalt GT is 32MB). I'd imagine Another Code being around 64MB though honestly, it seems to have a lot of higher quality sprite graphics stored.

 

[Sho Nuff]

forget how much they cost to manufacture. How much are Nintendo and Sony charging games publishers for finished, boxed goods. Thats manufacturing, duplication and license fee etc.

I'd also be interested if anyone had any license cost numbers for UMD movies.

I vaguely remember GBA stuff being $12 to $15, plus you need to pay for a shitload of them up front.

Xbox and PS2 I think were $2? $3? I remember it being a fraction of GBA. I heard those numbers a loooong time ago, so feel to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[jarrod]

I vaguely remember GBA stuff being $12 to $15, plus you need to pay for a shitload of them up front.

Xbox and PS2 I think were $2? $3? I remember it being a fraction of GBA. I heard those numbers a loooong time ago, so feel to correct me if I'm wrong.

Nope, Xbox & PS2 both cost around $8-10 per game. And actually, an 8MB GBA game only costs around $5-6. I think $10 is the upper limit for GBA but that's probably for higher end stuff (32MB, 64-256k flash memory, sun/tilt sensor, etc).

 

[sonycowboy]

Nope, Xbox & PS2 both cost around $8-10 per game. And actually, an 8MB GBA game only costs around $5-6. I think $10 is the upper limit for GBA but that's probably for higher end stuff (32MB, 64-256k flash memory, sun/tilt sensor, etc).

Actually, thier are different charges for a PS2/Xbox/GC game based on price point.

You pay ~$2-$3 manufacturing (disc pressing / box / shipping) and up to ~$7-8 royalty for full priced games and less for lower price points. So basically, the cost to a publisher for per disc is generally considered about $10, but that's the full cost.

The DVD pressing itself is less than $1 per disc.

From what I've heard GBA is a bit higher overall, when you count manufacturing and royalty, but not a significant about (maybe $10-$13 based on game size). Of course, the price point for a GBA game is a bit less, so it's a higher percentage of the overall MSRP

 

[pxleyes]

Cost of portable mediums like the UMD and DS carts aren't issues for me.

The real issue is the amount of battery life you get given each medium.

carts = longer battery life

 

[Suikoguy]

Cost of portable mediums like the UMD and DS carts aren't issues for me.

The real issue is the amount of battery life you get given each medium.

carts = longer battery life

true, but until carts reach a size to be useful for real music and speech, at a reasonable price, i'd take 5 hours between charges.

 

[sonycowboy]

true, but until carts reach a size to be useful for real music and speech, at a reasonable price, i'd take 5 hours between charges.

AFAIK,

The highest size a DS cart can be is 64MB (the highest size 3DM currently makes) vs 1.8GB for the PSP.

 

[goomba]

"The highest size a DS cart can be is 64MB (the highest size 3DM currently makes) vs 1.8GB for the PSP."

shows what you know.

The largest cart size possible at present is 128 MB (1 gigabit), and that has not been stated as a format capacity limit.

 

[sonycowboy]

"The highest size a DS cart can be is 64MB (the highest size 3DM currently makes) vs 1.8GB for the PSP."

shows what you know.

The largest cart size possible at present is 128 MB (1 gigabit), and that has not been stated as a format capacity limit.

I wasn't stating it was in anyway the limit, I was going off of some PR I read, I don't know maybe 6 months ago and at that point, the highest capacity they sold was 64MB.

 

[pxleyes]

Then try using a version of the CompactFlash format for the next Gameboy. 2 GB of space is the new high end limit right now.

 

[kaching]

Wasn't there something about paper-based UMDs?

That was for Blu-Ray

 

[jarrod]

Actually, thier are different charges for a PS2/Xbox/GC game based on price point.

You pay ~$2-$3 manufacturing (disc pressing / box / shipping) and up to ~$7-8 royalty for full priced games and less for lower price points. So basically, the cost to a publisher for per disc is generally considered about $10, but that's the full cost.

The DVD pressing itself is less than $1 per disc.

From what I've heard GBA is a bit higher overall, when you count manufacturing and royalty, but not a significant about (maybe $10-$13 based on game size). Of course, the price point for a GBA game is a bit less, so it's a higher percentage of the overall MSRP

There's price scales for GBA too and I still believe $10 is the upper limit with about $5 being low end (for overall costs, manufacturing + license). Otherwise publishers like DSI, Majesco or Crave couldn't hope to release all those $14.99 to $19.99 SKUs they live off of. In general though GBA pricing is lower than the consoles but as you say, the lower MSRP makes it proportionately more of the cost. I *think* both DS and PSP are probably undercutting GBA though, with generally higher MSRPs too (cue happy EA).

AFAIK,

The highest size a DS cart can be is 64MB (the highest size 3DM currently makes) vs 1.8GB for the PSP.

Nope, Matrix currently has 256MB in production, just not in mass quantities yet. Their largest mass production ROM is 128MB currently.

 

[Suikoguy]

256 mb would be nice, and would be enough for basic music and voice. HOWEVER, what would the cost be, and or how long would it take to get down to a reasonable production cost.