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DS online? (Miyamoto)
- Thread starter Mama Smurf
- Start date
Scalemail Ted said:
Oddly enough, my hunch is for late-term backwards compatibility with GBA games that use the wireless adapter. Of course, this begs the question of why they didn't just make that thing 802.11, but I'm not privy to these kinds of things.
Kinda wish I were, but such is life.
krypt0nian
Banned
The Bookerman said:
Thread closed...JediMike is just trying to confuse matters. Please feel free to check the fact sheet at Nintendo.
2 Wireless methods. Just like the idiots on IGN right now arguing whether or not DS is backlit or frontlit when its ON THE DAMN FACT SHEET.
And I quote from the Fact Sheet at Nintendo:
Goreomedy said:
I'm not confused. Possibly misinformed, but not confused.
Anyone with an SDK should be able to clear this up by answering these simple questions.
Does DS use 802.11b or some other 802.11 method? I'm guessing some other method because of the range limits they quoted (30'). 802.11b is minimum 150' max 300'
Is there a DNS address? You can't browse the internet without it. Nintendo could hardwire a DNS address into the DS (like a cell phone), but it should be apparant in the kit.
Does Nintendo's protocol use specific router ports?
Furthermore, why is warpipe involved with DS if DS is already Internet capable?
In response to above, let's break this down
they are talking ad-hoc or peer-to-peer
The range of 802.11b/g is 150' indoors (depending on walls, doors, etc.) and 300' outdoors (depending on trees, hills, etc.)
802.11 includes a lot of territory. This term is very ambiguous. Nintendo's proprietary protocol would not be routable because routers wouldn't know what to do with it. They haven't been programmed to accept it and would just ignore it... unless the router was in ad-hoc mode (peer-to-peer)
true.
This is where it gets confusing. LAN stands for local area network. The Internet is a WAN or Wide are network. Infinite number of players? This is just a meaningless PR statement. LAN's have more bandwidth and will allow more players, but there is still a limited amount of bandwidth that can only allow so many players
compete on the Internet... taking all other things into consideration, this most likely means uploading scores or times. This information most likely will get uploaded at Nintendo specific hot spots. Most likely built-into kiosks that will gather information wirelessly and then use a hardware device in the kiosk to upload the information to a Nintendo server.
krypt0nian
Banned
...because Warp Pipe Technologies (WPT) is pushing a new service unrealted to the Warp Pipe app, demasked.com which has to do with gaming community not tunneling.
Perrin Kaplan - 802.11b
Exerpt:
Perrin Kaplan - 802.11b
Exerpt:
Dragona Akehi
Retired
802.11b, jedimike.
It's routable, it's able to go online. The question has always been if Nintendo would let it do so.
Now, Miyamoto mentioned a) online (specifically the internet) and b) did it at a press conference. Heavy hints there.
That still doesn't mean it's confirmed... but it's looking more and more that way.
It's routable, it's able to go online. The question has always been if Nintendo would let it do so.
Now, Miyamoto mentioned a) online (specifically the internet) and b) did it at a press conference. Heavy hints there.
That still doesn't mean it's confirmed... but it's looking more and more that way.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
Society said:
It's in the related games bit. And it's related as it's mentioned in a DS article. It's no confirmation though.
krypt0nian
Banned
The proprietary Nintendo local method "which provides low battery consumption"
WiFi (11b) saps the battery more, therefore a need for two systems. I'm fairly certain that the second method is the along the same lines as the Motorola based wireless adapter proveded with Pokemon Fire Red.
WiFi (11b) saps the battery more, therefore a need for two systems. I'm fairly certain that the second method is the along the same lines as the Motorola based wireless adapter proveded with Pokemon Fire Red.
The Bookerman
Member
I played an incomplete DS. The hardware is complete. It's just somethin else.
Dragona Akehi said:
Once again, 802.11b doesn't mean anything, other than the fact that other 802.11b routers will know it's there and information can be shared between the two. The protocol will determine if it can go online. The Nintendo specific protocol is the key. Routers are programmed to accept specific protocols (IP, UDP, etc.). A router would not route a Nintendo protocol unless it got a firmware update first.
krypt0nian
Banned
jedimike said:
You're right. Nintendo is wrong. Somehow they will get online w/o Ip address or "protocols"
Hard headed...there ARE two seperate wireless systems here. Stop trying to make this something that its not.
How exactly is this in ANY way confusing to you? Do you think the Internet needs to be upgraded to Nintendo specific protocols or the maybe Nintendo is adhering to IP standards?
xsarien said:
Until Nintendo stops giving consumers false hopes. I've heard the Nintendo spin so many times before, that it's now essentially meaningless. Remeber all the help, support tools, and free royalties they were giving developers to make onlines games for the cube. Remeber the promo posters with the pokeball and online gaming? Remember when they were revolutionizing gaming with GBA/GC connectivity? Remember when Dolphin was going to be available to consumers at the same time as PS2? Remember when they finally went optical with the 64DD?
The higher-ups have contradicted themselves from the word go. Reggie says one thing, Kapplin another, Harrison, Miyamoto, Iwata... they're all trying to tell consumers what they want to hear without disclosing "top secret" information. They end up getting things all confused and the gamers gets less than they expected.
... yah, I'm a bitter Nintendo cynic. Nintendo's ultra-conservative business decisions coupled with their selfishness has killed any hopes I have about Nintendo going online.
So far, every thing they have said or written about online gaming with the DS has been clouded with misinformation and half-truths.
Bookerman. What everyone really wants to know is this - does the DS SDK expose some kind of IP stack or other routable network protocol, or is a packet capture/tunnel still necessary at this point? Nevermind, it must since they've announced VOIP (unless it isn't really VOIP, but over some other network protocol which is doubtful), and since people are talking about Internet rankings. Seems to me like Internet play is inevitable.
And yes, 802.11 is a protocol.
And yes, 802.11 is a protocol.
FitzOfRage
Member
Well that one was a fake, so doesn't play much of a role....
And when did they ever say the 64DD was optical?
Memles said:
haha... I've already mentioned some in this thread
from PR
Half-Truth
Misinformation
from Reggie: "we're still some time away from actually having wireless head-to-head play in any contemporary game sense."
from Nintendo website:"DS users will be able to connect with a local wireless network of up to 16 players."
The protocol can be provided in software. As long as Nintendo doesn't specifically lock out anything but their own protocol being transmitted by the hardware. If that's what you're suggesting, Jedi, then the question is, to what end? I mean it's one thing for Nintendo to say that they don't think online gaming is lucrative or of interest to their customers right now, it's another thing for them to implement Wifi and deliberately handicap it. What would be the benefit derived from preventing other developers from creating online games for the DS if they wanted to?jedimike said:
puck1337 said:
On the Data Link layer... it's there to get information from one place to other places. Not specific places. The key is still Nintendo's protocol which would serve the same purpose as TCP/IP.
Nintendo's protocol would reside at the Network layer and/or Transport layer which would determine the route from the source to the destination DS, manage traffic problems, and do error control.
I know DS is inherintly capable of going online... it just seems as if Nintendo has disabled or limited that possibility by using their own protocol.
edit:
The only thing I can think of is the same 2 things that always motivates Nintendo to do stupid shit. Piracy and money.
If Iwata really wants users to be able to play multiplayer with one game. Then users have to wirelessly download games from one DS to another. If they were using a standard protocol pirates could use a packet sniffer to hijack the game. It would be the easiest method to steal games ever created.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
jedimike said:
because they want you to walk into a store and possibly buy shit.
krypt0nian
Banned
jedimike still has yet to discredit the quotes I posted that make this whole issue moot.
In fact, he keeps letting some sort of odd personal issue get himself so qorked up that he ignores facts staring him in the face.
In fact, he keeps letting some sort of odd personal issue get himself so qorked up that he ignores facts staring him in the face.
The data is still being transmitted wirelessly and so can therefore be "sniffed" in some way, even if it does mean you have to take a non-standard approach. In any case, the protocol used to allow for games to be shared wirelessly in a local area network game doesn't have to restrict the DS from going online. I'm sure they could restrict the ability to transmit an entire game wirelessly if it was using anything other than the Nintendo protocol. I don't buy it.jedimike said:
The Faceless Master
Member
well, as far as piracy goes, where are the games stored when transmitted from the game wiht the cart? in RAM of course! turn the DS off, the game's gone...
if the wireless games transmission is anything like the GBA's multiplayer, and games are stored in RAM, that could be an awesome development for aspiring coders... wireless transmission of demos and emulators from your PC to your DS!
if the wireless games transmission is anything like the GBA's multiplayer, and games are stored in RAM, that could be an awesome development for aspiring coders... wireless transmission of demos and emulators from your PC to your DS!
junkwaffle
In Front and Drawing Away
jedimike said:
Yea, generally speaking, those are two despicable inducements for motivating a video game company.
As you point out, jedi, in order for the DS to get on the internet it *must* provide TCP/IP. In order for it to be possible for users to contact a remote server for even scoreboards, the DS *must* be able to get on the internet.
I don't see how you can, at this point, dispute that, in some way, the DS *must* expose a tcp/ip stack to the games on some level. For any of the things they've talked about doing, it must.
What they may do is encapsulate their 'proprietary protocol' as a layer on top of either TCP or UDP, and then only allow the applications to work on that level. They lose nothing by doing this, in terms of either piracy or money, and gain the ability to communicate with the internet at large. I doubt this very much, though, because I doubt they will want to cripple the hardware to the point they would have to by forcing software to go through firmware to communicate with the network devices. As with pretty much every video game machine ever, developers will probably have significant leeway in interacting directly with the hardware.
Also, ad-hoc in terms of wifi means no router. It is literally peer-to-peer, with no preference given to any one node, and nodes do not rebroadcast in ad-hoc mode afaik. Just thought I would point that out
I don't see how you can, at this point, dispute that, in some way, the DS *must* expose a tcp/ip stack to the games on some level. For any of the things they've talked about doing, it must.
What they may do is encapsulate their 'proprietary protocol' as a layer on top of either TCP or UDP, and then only allow the applications to work on that level. They lose nothing by doing this, in terms of either piracy or money, and gain the ability to communicate with the internet at large. I doubt this very much, though, because I doubt they will want to cripple the hardware to the point they would have to by forcing software to go through firmware to communicate with the network devices. As with pretty much every video game machine ever, developers will probably have significant leeway in interacting directly with the hardware.
Also, ad-hoc in terms of wifi means no router. It is literally peer-to-peer, with no preference given to any one node, and nodes do not rebroadcast in ad-hoc mode afaik. Just thought I would point that out
as for range, thats probably Nintendo using real world figures again, rather than super inflated 'in a vacuum with no obstacles' figures that wifi manufacturers usually use.
I know that my 802.11b access point and wifi card in my laptop regularly lose contact about 40ft away, through one ceiling/floor of my house. No other obstacles.
I know that my 802.11b access point and wifi card in my laptop regularly lose contact about 40ft away, through one ceiling/floor of my house. No other obstacles.
The Bookerman
Member
puck1337 said:
Yes, it works like Ethernet protocol. Problems, for developpers, going online is a bit sketchy... But Nintendo promised some more details in the coming months to devs.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
i'm really excited for the games for this thing - but if it turns out things have been misunderstood/exaggerated and true wireless internet play isn't a reality, my interest level is gonna drop substantially, because it just takes away another reason to purchase it.
even having read all the comments about being able to play people 'in other time zones' or 'potentially infinite numbers of players' etc etc - things can change and i'm scared it's not going to be fully online-enabled. i'm probably being very stupid - but i find it always helps to (try) to not get my hopes up most of the info on this thread is encouraging, though.
even having read all the comments about being able to play people 'in other time zones' or 'potentially infinite numbers of players' etc etc - things can change and i'm scared it's not going to be fully online-enabled. i'm probably being very stupid - but i find it always helps to (try) to not get my hopes up
most of the info on this thread is encouraging, though.The Bookerman
Member
Deg said:
That's not what I've said.
Hell, the Xbox didn't have xbox live games a year after the launch.
It will happen. Geez.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
sorry - i'm a bit retarded when it comes to computer/networking stuff
by 'hotspot' - does that mean any wireless router? cos i gots me one of those
by 'hotspot' - does that mean any wireless router? cos i gots me one of those
imastalker co.
Banned
network tools were given to developers about 5 weeks ago.
imastalker co.
Banned
sorry, that's all i know. didn't mean to be a cock tease.
Ultra Magnanimous
Member
Deg said:
Cafe Nero have quite a few branches with free wifi access, I know my local one does anyway. I'm seeing more and more businesses with 'wifi here' signs as well when I'm out and about.