Support NeoGAF

[Cerebral Palsy]

people keep harping on the fact that EA no longer needs to try. guess what? Madden 2003 is HONESTLY better than ESPN NFL 2k5. I'm not saying that to be funny, or as a cheap shot. If you gave me updated rosters, I would honestly rather play madden 2003 than I would ESPN NFL 2k5. the espn series is so broken it just isn't fun to play after a few weeks. I think this could be good for VC though. I would be interested in buying a football sim with a more mature franchise mode (such as drug suspensions, late hits out of bounds, and so on). what a lot of people don't realize is some features in football games are held back by the NFL. without the NFL's consent needed, VC can make a hard-hitting sim with some stuff out of playmakers. I would definintely pay $19.99 for it, NFL/NFLPA or not

Madden sucked the big one online too. Bugs and broken gameplay. Sorry excuse for leagues...

WAIT, THIS JUST IN!!! BREAKING NEWS!!! THEY BOTH SUCKED ASS.

 

[AstroLad]

people keep harping on the fact that EA no longer needs to try. guess what? Madden 2003 is HONESTLY better than ESPN NFL 2k5. I'm not saying that to be funny, or as a cheap shot. If you gave me updated rosters, I would honestly rather play madden 2003 than I would ESPN NFL 2k5. the espn series is so broken it just isn't fun to play after a few weeks. I think this could be good for VC though. I would be interested in buying a football sim with a more mature franchise mode (such as drug suspensions, late hits out of bounds, and so on). what a lot of people don't realize is some features in football games are held back by the NFL. without the NFL's consent needed, VC can make a hard-hitting sim with some stuff out of playmakers. I would definintely pay $19.99 for it, NFL/NFLPA or not

Your opinion on ESPN/Madden and which one is better is irrelevant. Apparenty more than a few people thought the opposite, but that doesn't even matter. Most people are pissed because now there is no one to push EA whereas it seemed like there would at least be a little healthy competition (be it on price, graphics, whatever) for a while.

 

[yodathesoda]

Nobody knows or can actually presume how much effort the staff at Tiburon will put into their football games. It sickens me that all you pessimistic doomsayers belittle the company that does indeed put out a great game of football by assuming that they will put minimal effort into their titles from now on. Has Tiburon had any reasonable competion in the NCAA Football market??? No. Have they improved the game substantially every year? Yes. As cool as it is to hate EA some of you should give Tiburon a break and wait and see because some people actually take pride in their product. Also Madden on PS3 and Xenon will blow our minds.

 

[AstroLad]

Nobody knows or can actually presume how much effort the staff at Tiburon will put into their football games. It sickens me that all you pessimistic doomsayers belittle the company that does indeed put out a great game of football by assuming that they will put minimal effort into their titles from now on. Has Tiburon had any reasonable competion in the NCAA Football market??? No. Have they improved the game substantially every year? Yes. As cool as it is to hate EA some of you should give Tiburon a break and wait and see because some people actually take pride in their product. Also Madden on PS3 and Xenon will blow our minds.

4 entries found for incentive.
in·cen·tive Audio pronunciation of "incentive" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-sntv)
n.

Something, such as the fear of punishment or the expectation of reward, that induces action or motivates effort.


adj.

Serving to induce or motivate: an incentive bonus for high productivity.

The fact that we can't conclusively state exactly what will be going on at Tiburon doesn't mean that we have to see the destruction of one big incentive (outdoing a competitor) as a good thing.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Nobody knows or can actually presume how much effort the staff at Tiburon will put into their football games. It sickens me that all you pessimistic doomsayers belittle the company that does indeed put out a great game of football by assuming that they will put minimal effort into their titles from now on. Has Tiburon had any reasonable competion in the NCAA Football market??? No. Have they improved the game substantially every year? Yes. As cool as it is to hate EA some of you should give Tiburon a break and wait and see because some people actually take pride in their product. Also Madden on PS3 and Xenon will blow our minds.

NCAA 2003 & NCAA 2004 > NCAA 2005. Point obliterated.

Although I dont think the EA games will "suck", they will suffer due to less competition as they simply wont have to/ have the luxury of implementing and/or borrowing new features of other games because their wont be any......

 

[yodathesoda]

OK. While all of you whine and cry on the internet I'll wait and see what the Madden team actually produces before picking up the pitchforks and torches. I agree that the deal is wrong simply because I'm a fan of both ESPN and Madden but having people make ridiculous assumptions about the work ethic of others isn't cool.

 

[AstroLad]

OK. While all of you whine and cry on the internet I'll wait and see what the Madden team actually produces before picking up the pitchforks and torches. I agree that the deal is wrong simply because I'm a fan of both ESPN and Madden but having people make ridiculous assumptions about the work ethic of others isn't cool.

Since you're so big at rallying against perfectly reasonable presumptions, I find it interesting you would post, "Madden on PS3 and Xenon will blow our minds." Can I ride in your Delorean some time oh Time-Traveling-Hater-of-Presumptions?

 

[snapty00]

Okay, what a load of crap. I mean, fine, they bought the exclusivity of the NFL, and it sucks, but it's good business, and apparently nobody else could outbid them. So, that part was fair game, even if other companies wouldn't pay the big bucks like EA would. I blame other companies and/or the NFL, not EA for being aggressive.

However, everything that EA guy said was a crock of shit. They'd be better off saying nothing than telling outright lies.

 

[Pimpwerx]

That producer can try and blow sunshine all he wants, but the fact of the matter is that there is no longer a choice. In the past, we had options when Madden or some other series blew it. I remember liking Sega's Sports Talk Football series better ever since the second Joe Montana football game. The original Madden was awesome, but I didn't like it as much. I also liked Gameday 98 a hell of a lot more than Madden 98. Again, EA blew dick and we had the option of buying another, BETTER product. Now there's no choice, and I don't like that regardless of how good MAdden is. Because it won't matter a lick when the product does end up sucking, b/c there's no Plan B. PEACE.

 

[yodathesoda]

Since you're so big at rallying against perfectly reasonable presumptions, I find it interesting you would post, "Madden on PS3 and Xenon will blow our minds." Can I ride in your Delorean some time oh Time-Traveling-Hater-of-Presumptions?

There's a difference between presuming a game's going to look amazing because of vastly improved hardware and presuming a team will really slack off because their major competition is gone. One is a judgment based on the obvious another is a judgement of a group's work ethnic. Do the math Mcfly.

 

[DSN2K]

Its funny EA said once the best thing to ever happen to the FIFA series was Pro Evolution Soccer from Konami.

 

[yodathesoda]

That producer can try and blow sunshine all he wants, but the fact of the matter is that there is no longer a choice. In the past, we had options when Madden or some other series blew it. I remember liking Sega's Sports Talk Football series better ever since the second Joe Montana football game. The original Madden was awesome, but I didn't like it as much. I also liked Gameday 98 a hell of a lot more than Madden 98. Again, EA blew dick and we had the option of buying another, BETTER product. Now there's no choice, and I don't like that regardless of how good MAdden is. Because it won't matter a lick when the product does end up sucking, b/c there's no Plan B. PEACE.

IAWTP lack of a second option stinks.

 

[AstroLad]

There's a difference between presuming a game's going to look amazing because of vastly improved hardware and presuming a team will really slack off because their major competition is gone. One is a judgment based on the obvious another is a judgement of a group's work ethnic. Do the math Mcfly.

Yes, there is a difference, though I didn't want to point it out since it would make you look even dumber than you already do, but if you insist... "Also Madden on PS3 and Xenon will blow our minds." This is presumed from what? The first Madden on PS was awful, and the first one on PS2 was nothing to write home about, certainly didn't verifiably "blow the minds" of everyone. The latter presumption is one involving a basic principle of human and business behavior- competition makes people work harder. I'd say the first one, based on essentially nothing other than your blind hope, is on much shakier ground than the second.

And when did the EA PR department start hiring 12-year-olds? I knew EA labor practices were horrendous, but I find this truly disconcerting.

 

[AntoneM]

There's a difference between presuming a game's going to look amazing because of vastly improved hardware and presuming a team will really slack off because their major competition is gone. One is a judgment based on the obvious another is a judgement of a group's work ethnic. Do the math Mcfly.

I'm sure there work ethic is great, and I bet any one of them would be willing to put in more hours next year than I would. What I, and many others are afraid of is when the EA higher-ups step in and tell them to start cutting costs. The first thing to go will be the number of hours each person is allowed to work, and that means that the game overall will suffer since it's on a yearly schedule, and we have new hardware comming out.

 

[KiNeSiS]

Yes, there is a difference, though I didn't want to point it out since it would make you look even dumber than you already do, but if you insist... "Also Madden on PS3 and Xenon will blow our minds." This is presumed from what? The first Madden on PS was awful, and the first one on PS2 was nothing to write home about, certainly didn't verifiably "blow the minds" of everyone. The latter presumption is one involving a basic principle of human and business behavior- competition makes people work harder. I'd say the first one, based on essentially nothing other than your blind hope, is on much shakier ground than the second.

And when did the EA PR department start hiring 12-year-olds? I knew EA labor practices were horrendous, but I find this truly disconcerting.

12 year olds come on....

 

[yodathesoda]

Yes, there is a difference, though I didn't want to point it out since it would make you look even dumber than you already do, but if you insist... "Also Madden on PS3 and Xenon will blow our minds." This is presumed from what? The first Madden on PS was awful, and the first one on PS2 was nothing to write home about, certainly didn't verifiably "blow the minds" of everyone. The latter presumption is one involving a basic principle of human and business behavior- competition makes people work harder. I'd say the first one, based on essentially nothing other than your blind hope, is on much shakier ground than the second.

And when did the EA PR department start hiring 12-year-olds? I knew EA labor practices were horrendous, but I find this truly disconcerting.

The first one on PS2 was nothing to write home about? Compared to the PS versions??? Are you stoned? I remember watching vids on IGN for Madden on PS2 when I was still playing the PS versions and it did blow my mind. Listen Sherlock there's a reason that new consoles are coming out and one of the major reasons is the graphics will be better. It is safe to assume that Madden will look significantly better.

I already went over this but presuming people won't work as hard because there is no competition is stupid. Some people take pride in their product. Some people listen to their userbase and do everything they can to improve a game. Just because a game has no competition while I admit isn't the best idea it certainly does not give everyone a free pass to slander a group people who could be working overtime to produce an excellent product. Keep on complaining on the internet though and have fun with that, I myself will wait and see.

 

[AstroLad]

The first one on PS2 was nothing to write home about? Compared to the PS versions??? Are you stoned? I remember watching vids on IGN for Madden on PS2 when I was still playing the PS versions and it did blow my mind. Listen Sherlock there's a reason that new consoles are coming out and one of the major reasons is the graphics will be better. It is safe to assume that Madden will look significantly better.

I already went over this but presuming people won't work as hard because there is no competition is stupid. Some people take pride in their product. Some people listen to their userbase and do everything they can to improve a game. Just because a game has no competition while I admit isn't the best idea it certainly does not give everyone a free pass to slander a group people who could be working overtime to produce an excellent product. Keep on complaining on the internet though and have fun with that, I myself will wait and see.

Apparently you get your mind blown very easily. You shouldn't presume other people are as easily amazed. There's a reason most people think the PS2 had the worst launch of the modern consoles, and I don't think anyone, other than you maybe, was qualifying that with "BUT MADDEN BLEW MY FUKING MIND HOLY SHITTT!!"

As for the rest of the crap you wrote, I'm through trying to explain the obvious to you.

 

[yodathesoda]

Apparently you get your mind blown very easily. You shouldn't presume other people are as easily amazed. As for the rest of the crap you wrote, I'm through trying to explain the obvious to you.

No difference at all.

 

[iyox]

It would be nice to think that maybe consumers would band together and not buy the next madden. I mean really every year it's some stupid crap "The year of the offense"(We made the offense ridiculously overpowered), "The year of the defense"(We decided to take out pass-interference, or any kind of realistic pass defense). Honestly who needs another shitty madden, at least this year I was able to purchase a game that brought other facets of football to the table. Oh well all is lost, the crash is coming!! or something like that. Just please god don't let this happen with hockey, fucking EA's NHL franchise is fucking god awful compared to ESPN-NHL2Kx series.

 

[Mrbob]

Nobody knows or can actually presume how much effort the staff at Tiburon will put into their football games. It sickens me that all you pessimistic doomsayers belittle the company that does indeed put out a great game of football by assuming that they will put minimal effort into their titles from now on. Has Tiburon had any reasonable competion in the NCAA Football market??? No. Have they improved the game substantially every year? Yes. As cool as it is to hate EA some of you should give Tiburon a break and wait and see because some people actually take pride in their product. Also Madden on PS3 and Xenon will blow our minds.

Lets talk about this issue at hand. You could have used NCAA as an example UNTIL 2005. NCAA 2005 is a pile of garbage I wish EA could refund me my 50 dollars for wasting my money on that PoS. The game isn't bad, but it is BROKEN. No competition there either for a GOOD college football game. Hopefully 2006 gets back on track because NCAA 2005 is junk. There is a reason why it is being given away in the Xbox Holiday Bundle because no sane person would be happy plunking down money on it.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Here's an interesting twist of a question.

Why didnt EA sink that 300 mil into resources for simply making a better game?

 

[iyox]

Here's an interesting twist of a question.

Why didnt EA sink that 300 mil into resources for simply making a better game?

Simple, first rule of business: It is easier to fuck over competition then to innovate.

 

[Guileless]

Well the current engine is definitely showing its age. Bill Clinton was still prez when the first PS2 Madden came out. The graphics will probably be mind-blowing, but if the pattern holds the game will not play well at first.

1st year: New game, great graphics, people overlook obvious flaws
2nd year: some problems fixed, wow factor begins to wane
3rd year: wow factor long gone, problems fixed in year 2 beget new problems
4th year: at this point you either love it or hate it--plays much better than year 1 and 2 but remaining problems are magnified
5th year: when's that new console come out?

 

[Drensch]

Challenge everything.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

Your opinion on ESPN/Madden and which one is better is irrelevant. Apparenty more than a few people thought the opposite, but that doesn't even matter. Most people are pissed because now there is no one to push EA whereas it seemed like there would at least be a little healthy competition (be it on price, graphics, whatever) for a while.

no single opinion is relevant in the grand scheme of things, not yours and not mine. only the overall market is relevant. and the overall market has said madden is the better game. if your football game is half the price of another, and you still can't outsell it, that tells me there are a shitload of fans who prefer madden over espn. espns rebound in sales weren't so much a shot at madden's quality as they were about the price. people who really had no interest in football bought ESPN nfl. so, that is no loss from madden, they weren't going to buy a $50 football game anyways. they aren't going to buy a $50 football game next year either.

healthy competition can't hurt anyone, but if the nfl PURSUED selling exclusive rights to the players association/teams, how can anyone be mad at EA?

 

[Mrbob]

The reason I bring up NCAA 2005 as an example is because success the previous year doesn't necessarily mean success the next year. NCAA 2004 is arguably the best playing football game, but then EA dropped a huge turd for NCAA 2005. The same thing COULD happen with Madden, and then we are fucked because we have no other alternative.

healthy competition can't hurt anyone, but if the nfl PURSUED selling exclusive rights to the players association/teams, how can anyone be mad at EA?

Because EA has been trying to do this for years and now the NFL/NFLPA finally gave in to an EA offer they couldn't refuse. But I agree EA shouldn't get all the blame. More of a 50/50 thing.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

why are you running away bob? lets play our madden game! come on buddy, i'm ripe for the beating, been studying for finals all week, worked 8 hour day, i'm tired and can't concentrate. this is your one and only chance to beat me!

 

[AstroLad]

espns rebound in sales weren't so much a shot at madden's quality as they were about the price. people who really had no interest in football bought ESPN nfl. so, that is no loss from madden, they weren't going to buy a $50 football game anyways. they aren't going to buy a $50 football game next year either.

If this is true then why did EA spend hundreds of millions acquiring exclusive rights? You're completely overstating your case here.

 

[Fifty]

It's simple why EA did this. They had money lying around that Dodge gave them, for sponsoring the "Premium Pass" features..but since premium pass features are complete bullshit, it's obvious that Dodge's money had to be used for something (other than the hundred dollar bills the Madden web team were smoking), so it went toward EA's total world domination fund----in the form of this deal.

 

[Sysgen]

The people that have no problem with this should understand that this is about 2 things:

- Locking out the competition thereby increasing sales.
- Not having to make a better product thereby saving development costs.

Sure they still have to put out a good product but not a great product.

If anything I would think Madden fans would want the competition.

 

[Mrbob]

I'm actually more concerned about the precedence of this deal and how it impacts the future. I guarantee you within three years the MLB, NBA, and NHL licenses will be given out exclusively to the highest bidder. You better hope these official games are good or we are in for a dark age time in the sports genre.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Lets forget football for a second. Has anyone realized that EA can determine the outcome of the next generation? All they have to do is pick one system and you all but guarentee that system will likely be the system of choice the next generation. They hold a lot of power now which just is scary to think about. If EA picks PS3, imagine what that can do to simply say there aren't any football games on the Xbox2 or Nintendo Revolution?

 

[Mrbob]

Marty, post that here:

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=27720

 

[MASB]

Here's an interesting twist of a question.

Why didnt EA sink that 300 mil into resources for simply making a better game?

Any company that would spend $300 million on making one game wouldn't be in business. Though considering what Sega supposedly spent on Shenmue, maybe Sega will take that to the tenth power for Shenmue III and try to buck my theory.

To Marty Chinn: That is a scary, but realistic thought. Any console that doesn't have Madden will be dead in the long/short run as the DC illustrated (though that wasn't the DC's only problem).

 

[PhatSaqs]

Lets forget football for a second. Has anyone realized that EA can determine the outcome of the next generation? All they have to do is pick one system and you all but guarentee that system will likely be the system of choice the next generation. They hold a lot of power now that just is scary to think about. If EA picks PS3, imagine what that can do to simply say there aren't any football games on the Xbox2 or Nintendo Revolution?

This was brought up in the big archived thread as well. They could get a nice chunk of that investment back by simply waving exclusitivity contracts in the faces of the console makers. Would not surprise me at all if it happened.

 

[Sysgen]

This was brought up in the big archived thread as well. They could get a nice chunk of that investment back by simply waving exclusitivity contracts in the faces of the console makers. Would not surprise me at all if it happened.

Why exclusitivity? Just put a gun to MS, SONY and Nintendo and say this is how much we want to put our NFL game on your console. This way they get 3x the amount they would of gotten from exclusivity.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Why exclusitivity? Just put a gun to MS, SONY and Nintendo and say this is how much we want to put our NFL game on your console. This way they get 3x the amount they would of gotten from exclusivity.

Console jacking :lol :lol

 

[FortNinety]

Again, I have to ask: why can't football fans simply have two football games at once? Why did everyone with the Sega game have to go out and trade that it for Madden once it came out?

 

[AstroLad]

No difference at all.

"difference"=/="blow your mind"

Oh my god, a release on a next-gen system has better graphics than on the previous generation, what a gut-punch of revelation. Who would have ever thought that possible? If that's the case, almost every next-gen release game is a real mind-blower. Maybe to someone with low standards like you, but I wouldn't say minds are generally blown that easily.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

madden 2001 on ps2 WAS mind blowing. the graphics and animations were incredible and not only obliterated psx madden, but they pretty much trashed NFL 2kx (dreamcast) graphics pretty handily as well. it's all subjective. i can see how people weren't "blown away" by madden 2001, but i have to admit that i was. it may sound like nothing now, but i wanted the ps2 to be shitty at the time because i had already dropped a lot of money on dreamcast/games and didn't have money to buy a PS2. madden 2001 pretty much gave me no choice but to buy a ps2. if thats not killer app/mind blowing im not sure what is. but again, subject to ones own preference and opinion. but i have a feeling i'm not the only one who was blown away by madden 2001

 

[AstroLad]

madden 2001 on ps2 WAS mind blowing. the graphics and animations were incredible and not only obliterated psx madden, but they pretty much trashed NFL 2kx (dreamcast) graphics pretty handily as well. it's all subjective. i can see how people weren't "blown away" by madden 2001, but i have to admit that i was. it may sound like nothing now, but i wanted the ps2 to be shitty at the time because i had already dropped a lot of money on dreamcast/games and didn't have money to buy a PS2. madden 2001 pretty much gave me no choice but to buy a ps2. if thats not killer app/mind blowing im not sure what is. but again, subject to ones own preference and opinion. but i have a feeling i'm not the only one who was blown away by madden 2001

FMT you are the man.

 

[DMczaf]

madden 2001 on ps2 WAS mind blowing. the graphics and animations were incredible and not only obliterated psx madden, but they pretty much trashed NFL 2kx (dreamcast) graphics pretty handily as well. it's all subjective. i can see how people weren't "blown away" by madden 2001, but i have to admit that i was. it may sound like nothing now, but i wanted the ps2 to be shitty at the time because i had already dropped a lot of money on dreamcast/games and didn't have money to buy a PS2. madden 2001 pretty much gave me no choice but to buy a ps2. if thats not killer app/mind blowing im not sure what is. but again, subject to ones own preference and opinion. but i have a feeling i'm not the only one who was blown away by madden 2001

Football games have always been my "killer app"

I bought PSOne for Gameday 98

I bought PS2 for Madden 2001

I bought DC for NFL2K

And right now, I will probably end up getting Xbox 2 at launch for Madden 2006

The power of Football!!!!!

 

[Hitokage]

You know, it's time like this when I marvel at the wonders of a completely unregulated free market economy. The invisible hand of competition at work!

 

[Brannon]

I'm still reeling over the fact that there are fanboys out there that think after paying $20 for a game with competition, that paying $55+ for a game without competition to push it is a good thing.

How can people be THAT MUCH of a fanboy? How?

 

[Drek]

without the NFL's consent needed, VC can make a hard-hitting sim with some stuff out of playmakers. I would definintely pay $19.99 for it, NFL/NFLPA or not

This is actually a good idea, despite the rest of your post (Madden 2003 > NFL 2k5 is personal opinion) being weak.

The NFL shit a brick over Playmakers, if VC arranges a buyout with ESPN so that ESPN won't lean on them to stop they can make as harsh a satire of the modern NFL as they want, and it'd be awesome. The NFL would get so damn pissed but wouldn't have any leverage over VC and Take 2 anymore since they chose to sell out to the NFL.

The NFL might quickly learn that if you want to control every aspect of your sport's image you need to keep some type of leverage on everyone involved in it.

Hell, if the NFL takes their Sunday night games and goes to some other channel with them ESPN could team up with VC and they could name it ESPN Playmakers 2kX. Fire the show back up as well and use them as co-promotions to teach Tags and co. that you can only push other multi-million dollar companies so far before they push back.

 

[Hitokage]

I'm still reeling over the fact that there are fanboys out there that think after paying $20 for a game with competition, that paying $55+ for a game without competition to push it is a good thing.

How can people be THAT MUCH of a fanboy? How?

I usually post in OT, so I'm not suprised at all.

 

[Drek]

I'm still reeling over the fact that there are fanboys out there that think after paying $20 for a game with competition, that paying $55+ for a game without competition to push it is a good thing.

How can people be THAT MUCH of a fanboy? How?

Delusion is a powerful tool. I'm sure you could find people who didn't think Gameday '99 (year before EA went 3D) was the biggest thing to happen to sports games since Tecmo Bowl and insist that EA was still delivering a quality product back then.

 

[DMczaf]

Delusion is a powerful tool. I'm sure you could find people who didn't think Gameday '99 (year before EA went 3D) was the biggest thing to happen to sports games since Tecmo Bowl and insist that EA was still delivering a quality product back then.

That was Gameday 98, Gameday 99 was the beginning of the Trashday series.

 

[Unison]

You know, suddenly all those conspiracy theories that Microsoft dropped its sports game series to get EA to do Xbox Live don't seem at all wacky...

 

[DDayton]

You know, Sega/Visual Concept's most profitable option at this point might be to make Mario Football for Nintendo.

I'm being serious.