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Edgar Wright is a very good director, and it's sort of weird to suggest he isn't.

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One of the more interesting phenomenons here in the off-topic side of NeoGAF concerns the film director Edgar Wright, whose last film, "The World's End" was a much-anticipated release here on these boards, and whose previous films, "Shaun of the Dead," "Hot Fuzz," and "Scott Pilgrim" seem to be pretty well-liked by most people visiting the site over the years, not to mention the television program "Spaced," which is almost universally enjoyed, even by the people who are closer to the "meh" end of the scale when it comes to Wright's filmography.

But lately, as the Marvel "Ant-Man" machine has began winding up, there's been a weird narrative that's spun out of the multiple discussions surrounding the project, which was assigned to Wright early in Marvel Studio's life, and was his for the past 8 years before both parties decided to part ways late last year.

1) Edgar Wright isn't a good filmmaker,
2) Marvel was right to fire him because he would have made a movie that people didn't like and
3) people who like Edgar Wright movies are pretentious film-snobs complaining just to complain.

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To the first complaint: Aside from the fact that Wright typically tackles subject matter that seems perfectly engineered towards appealing to what I might as well call the "male geek in arrested development" market, his films are technically sound, to the point that his ability to get across visual information in a stylish way, without sacrificing either characterization OR storytelling is noted by not just other filmmakers, but by the critical community in general.

Here's an eight-minute video essay from David Chen of Slashfilm, dedicated to Wright's ability to use the close-up as a storytelling tool.

Here's an eight-minute video essay by Tony Zhou that directly compares Wright's work with a number of well known comedy directors as a means to point out just how cinematic his films are, in ways other comedies can't possibly compete with, or hell, even legitimate action or drama films.

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It's pretty apparent the man puts a lot of thought into what he's doing with the camera, why he's doing it, and how to get it done. He puts a lot of thought into everything he does, period, which is not a thing that can be said for many filmmakers in general. Hell, look at how much thought he poured into the matter of simply programming a hypothetical horror-film festival for the AV Club. When asked, he not only first arrived at a theme based on a Shakespeare play, he then populated the hypothetical festival with films that not only fit within that theme but stood as legitimately great picks in and of themselves.

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And while his filmography does not contain a single movie that has made over $100 million worldwide, it's hard to argue with the overall satisfaction level from general audiences who have seen his films.

Shaun of the Dead RT Audience Score: 93% liked it, 492,000 ratings
Hot Fuzz RT Audience Score: 89% liked it, 560,000 ratings
Scott Pilgrim RT Audience Score: 83% liked it, 136,000 ratings
The World's End RT Audience Score: 71% liked it, 89,000 ratings

(the World's End is a bit of an outlier there, isn't it. Huh. Also, yeah, I know, RT scores. Not the biggest fan myself, but as a sort of measuring stick, it serves the general purpose here)

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I guess I just don't see how it's a "film-snob thing" to like the movies Edgar Wright makes. Up until recently, I wasn't even aware that such a notion existed, as it seems most of his movies previously were considered movies that normal, "regular joes" had no problems enjoying even WITHOUT any of that knowledge about filmmaking or storytelling needing to come into play. Would I have really liked to see his version of Ant-Man? Of course. I'm not gonna drag that into the theater with me when I finally do see Peyton Reed & Adam McKay's version, but I don't think it's an affront to the film's existence to suggest Edgar Wright might have done something really interesting to the character.

So basically: If you think you have an argument as to why Edgar Wright isn't a good director, I'm curious as to what it could be in the face of a well-liked filmography and an attention to craft that made such a positive reaction possible.

And if you do think Edgar Wright is a good director, feel free to post gifs and video clips of your favorite scenes/moments as examples of why you like what the guy does.
 

Ithil

Member
I'm finding "everything about Ant-Man is now bad and also it would automatically have been perfect if Edgar Wright was still director" posts are vastly more common than the opposite.
 
He is a good director and I am a big fan of his but I'm also getting tired of seeing his name posted in any Ant-Man thread.

Move the fuck on people.
 
The only Wright-bashing I've really seen is from Marvel fanboys circling the wagons against anyone who might suggest that a mistake has been made by letting him leave Ant-Man.

Certainly I don't know many people who've actually seen his work to think that he isn't.

He is a good director and I am a big fan of his but I'm also getting tired of seeing his name posted in any Ant-Man thread.

Move the fuck on people.

If the footage that they'd put out inspired any confidence at all, people might.

As it is, wondering about how his take may have differed from Reed's is entirely legitimate, particularly given the uncertain nature of the split between Wright and Marvel.
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
He is a good director and I am a big fan of his but I'm also getting tired of seeing his name posted in any Ant-Man thread.

Move the fuck on people.

Yup. I enjoy his movies but the butt hurt over his leaving a film is getting tiresome.
 

Auctopus

Member
World's End is the outlier as the idea behind the film was just a bit dull/overdone. It also sacrificed laughs in turn for action and 'emotion'.
 
I'm finding "everything about Ant-Man is now bad and also it would automatically have been perfect if Edgar Wright was still director" posts are vastly more common than the opposite.

And way more irritating, considering Adam McKay and Paul Rudd are listed as screenwriters for Ant-Man. You don't need one or the other. Both are among the more talented filmmakers of our generation.
 

guek

Banned
Is this really that common of a sentiment? I've seen more criticism aimed at his lack of box office performance than anything else. There are a handful of posts saying he's a bad director but I haven't seen it all too often.
 
I fucking love Edgar Wright, he's one of my favourite directors of all time up there with Miyazaki and Wes Anderson for me. But you're making assumptions about a few people who aren't fans and applying that to everyone who's fed up with the Wright "discussions" in Ant-Man threads.

But yeah anyone outright saying he's a bad filmmaker is dumb and wrong. Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz are two of the best comedies of their decade.
 
I'm finding "everything about Ant-Man is now bad and also it would automatically have been perfect if Edgar Wright was still director" posts are vastly more common than the opposite.

Are they though?

I'm seeing a lot of "I wish Edgar Wright was still doing this" but the second part seems to be an inference people are drawing and then responding to pretty strongly. The fights don't seem to happen until someone suggests Edgar Wright shouldn't have ever been considered to direct the film in the first place, because "he's a bad director and his movies don't make money."

And I mean, the second part doesn't even really come into play considering the names of the directors who have directed Marvel films and made hundreds of millions while doing so, and the first part is the part I'm trying to get at here - I just don't get how he could be considered a "bad director"

I mean, haven't gone through those threads I linked, but I wonder if there's any overlap between people who are now suggesting he's a bad director and people who loved his films up right up until he and Marvel parted ways on Ant-Man.
 
I went to a Q&A of his at a scott pilgrim showing in beverly hills and got really starstruck and embarrassed when I asked him a question (I asked if he considered Pegg & Frost for the vegan police instead of thomas jane and friend derrrrrrrr)

But he was really nice and cool, links cool stuff on his twitter too.

Hot Fuzz is probably my favorite comedy of all time.
 
When I think of Edgar Wright I also think of Joss Whedon and people who like to dress up as cartoon characters in public and I can't think of an association less "pretentious".

(I like him)
 

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
Wright is a talented director and his technical prowess in filmmaking is impressive. I just find it annoying how his fans are constantly crowing that he's one of the greatest directors ever and that all his films are masterpieces, when in reality they do have their flaws (I didn't care for Scott Pilgrim, it didn't do justice to the original comics). It's the same with deal with Christopher Nolan fans. Technically proficient filmmakers, but their films are overrated.
 

Google

Member
I've read absolutely nothing about Ant Man because I couldnt give a fuck about:

a) Marvel
b) comicbook movies

However, Edgar Wright is by far one of my favourite movie directors. Often I enjoy his films on first viewing but I start falling in love with them on subsequent views. They're so layered and directed. There's a lot to see and hear in them and I love that with each view multiple different perspectives are seen.

I'm sure this is the same for a lot of directors but I find the mix of Wrights quick and aggressive cuts along with his penchant for amazing soundtracks allow me to enjoy things way more.
 

Sobriquet

Member
I'm not so sure I've seen any of these criticisms:

1) Edgar Wright isn't a good filmmaker,
2) Marvel was right to fire him because he would have made a movie that people didn't like and
3) people who like Edgar Wright movies are pretentious film-snobs complaining just to complain.

Not that I want to. Surely these aren't common, right?
 

Instro

Member
I'm finding "everything about Ant-Man is now bad and also it would automatically have been perfect if Edgar Wright was still director" posts are vastly more common than the opposite.

Definitely seeing a lot of this, some more overt than others. I think he is a great director, although Worlds End was kind of weak.
 

Ithil

Member
Are they though?

I'm seeing a lot of "I wish Edgar Wright was still doing this" but the second part seems to be an inference people are drawing and then responding to pretty strongly. The fights don't seem to happen until someone suggests Edgar Wright shouldn't have ever been considered to direct the film in the first place, because "he's a bad director and his movies don't make money."

And I mean, the second part doesn't even really come into play considering the names of the directors who have directed Marvel films and made hundreds of millions while doing so, and the first part is the part I'm trying to get at here - I just don't get how he could be considered a "bad director"

I mean, haven't gone through those threads I linked, but I wonder if there's any overlap between people who are now suggesting he's a bad director and people who loved his films up right up until he and Marvel parted ways on Ant-Man.

Yes, they are. It's basically the first response I see to anything related to Ant-Man.
 

Siegcram

Member
I'm finding "everything about Ant-Man is now bad and also it would automatically have been perfect if Edgar Wright was still director" posts are vastly more common than the opposite.
This.

Can't say I've seen many people discrediting him to somehow pump up Ant-Man (which seems pretty questionable already).
 
I've seen more criticism aimed at his lack of box office performance than anything else.

The hypocrisy of this really riles me.

Marvel has handed hundreds of millions to directors who are either unproven or who have made minutely-grossing movies regularly- Gunn, the Russos, Derrickson, even Whedon. The idea that it's good that Wright has gone because his movies haven't been blockbusters is absolute horseshit, and anyone seriously using it as an argument should step back from their fanboyism and just think.
 

Raptor

Member
I like his movies.

Does that mean I think he is a very good director? not at all.

No different than someone like Brett Ratner.
 

injurai

Banned
He's a great director, but I think I really just like Simon Pegg and Nick Frost as writers. The carry that relationship far more. e.g. Run Fatboy Run
 

Lunar15

Member
He brings a pretty specific vision to his projects. Some people like it, others don't. I think people wanted to see that vision in ant man, and are disappointed that he's no longer part of it. I agree that dismissing the entire movie is pretty silly, though. Especially since we've seen so little. Trailer did little to assuage fears, but I doubt it's wholly indicative of the entire film.

Whatever your feelings about him, Scott Pilgrim, Ant-Man, etc. are, I still consider Hot Fuzz to be a wonderful gift to humanity. Whether that's Wright's doing, Wright, Pegg, & Frost's doing, or just Pegg & Frost, my point still stands.
 

Nibel

Member
Recently re-watched Scott Pilgrim, and man the movie is trash. Way too long and obnoxious.

He made some good stuff though.
 

Tobor

Member
I'll say what I always say.

I think Shaun of the Dead was excellent. Hot Fuzz is overrated. I kept waiting for the funny. Nowhere near as good as SotD. Didnt see the worlds end as it looked like more of the same. I saw five minutes of Scott Pilgrim and turned it off. Not for me.

So I love one of his movies and am ambivalent on the rest. How do I feel about him leaving Ant Man? Ambivalent, I guess. I think Peyton Reed will do fine and I trust Marvel Studios.
 
He's a great director, but I think I really just like Simon Pegg and Nick Frost as writers. The carry that relationship far more. e.g. Run Fatboy Run

.... Nick Frost had nothing to do with Run, Fatboy Run. Also, Pegg & Frost were involved with Paul (while Wright wasn't), and the drop in quality was very noticeable.
 
Yeah Edgar Wright is a fantastic director but people need to move the fuck on in Ant Man threads.

Love his movies. Hell I even noticed his influences in The Adventures of Tintin.
 
No different than someone like Brett Ratner.
I am simply baffled to how you draw this comparison.

As a filmmaker, Wright has a strong and easily-identifiable visual and tonal style. I cannot imagine liking Shaun or Hot Fuzz without at least having an appreciation of that. Ratner, by contrast, simply fades into the background- any of his movies could have been directed by anyone, to no noticeable effect. He's a hack in the purest sense of the word.
He's a great director, but I think I really just like Simon Pegg and Nick Frost as writers. The carry that relationship far more. e.g. Run Fatboy Run

Nick Frost had absolutely nothing to do with Run Fatboy Run.
 

Flappy

Banned
I think he is a very overrated director. I will go as far as to say.... a bad director.

He shoots and edits like a film school student (Trust me, I was one). His "style" is very forced and made up mostly of homages to other film maker's styles. I really hate this kind of film making. I find it cheap.
 

KalBalboa

Banned
Excellent post as always, Bobby.

Right on the money. Wright is one of the best. Genuinely creative, funny, and carries some surprising integrity.
 

guek

Banned
Biggest bummer for me about Edgar Wright is that I found World's End just good, not great. Hot Fuzz and Shawn of the Dead though are off the fucking chain.
 

mreddie

Member
Whatever your feelings about him, Scott Pilgrim, Ant-Man, etc. are, I still consider Hot Fuzz to be a wonderful gift to humanity. Whether that's Wright's doing, Wright, Pegg, & Frost's doing, or just Pegg & Frost, my point still stands.

Pretty much this, I'll still split on Shaun and World's End, I do like Scott and while I share the "Can we stop bringing up Wright in a Antman thread?", I can't deny his style is visually striking but a bit flawed.
 
I've actually noticed that instead of trying to criticize him as a director, people just try to discredit him through his box office numbers and form some imaginary argument about how the people who wanted Edgar Wright to direct Ant-Man are saying he's the only one who could have made it popular.
 

Boem

Member
I love Edgar Wright. I don't really have anything meaningful to say about people who do or don't like him (I can see how his work isn't for everyone), but Spaced and his movies feel so personal to me. In high school Spaced and Shaun of the Dead felt like this secret thing me and my friends shared. Our humor felt like their humor, our friendship felt like Simon and Nick's friendship, the environment their stories took place felt like the environment we grew up in (as opposed to the American world as seen in other movies). We could watch it over and over.

And then World's End hit a while back. And that movie hit me HARD. I've talked about what this movie means to me before in the Mental Health thread, but I feel it's worth saying again. It was a combination of things - my personal nostalgia of growing up with Spaced and the other movies and how special it was to my group of friends, and the fact that I just came out of my own battle with addiction (it was alcohol in the movie, drugs for me), depression and not being able to move on with my life. I had put all that behind me at that point, and I was finally moving on with my life, but the message of that movie hit very, very close to home for me. It was insane, it was like Wright took a look at how my life had been going and decided I needed a sharp reminder that things needed to change. Someone working on that movie must have had close personal experiences with all that stuff because it got way too real at points. I only managed to watch it twice - once by myself (and I was a crying mess at the end), and once when I showed it too my old best friend from high school (who had been struggling with similar things around that time). He was also very quiet after that, and he texted me to apologize for being so quiet after the movie and asked if we could start hanging out more again. This might sound like bullshit, but I never felt such a personal connection to a fictional work before. I still get a bit emotional when I think back to it. And it's a freaking sci-fi comedy. I'm still not ready to watch it a third time (and I've watched all his other works countless times).

I can totally see why people prefer his earlier movies. They're definitely funnier, and they never get as dark as they do in this movie. But man. I'll support anything he does. I don't care if it's Antman or not (don't care enough about Marvel movies for that), but I was looking forward to him making a big budget movie. We'll have to wait and see what he makes next and when it happens. Give him the third Tintin movie or something.
 

Cipherr

Member
Honestly think what you want about him. I just think people would appreciate it if his fans stopped thread shitting Ant Man threads. He left the project in whatever capacity, deal with it and move on and look forward to his next project whatever that might be.

You get those over the top responses about him being 'terrible' from people frustrated in the AntMan threads. Its just... extremely stupid, those issues with him and the Ant Man movie happened a long time ago. Knock it the hell off already.

I'm finding "everything about Ant-Man is now bad and also it would automatically have been perfect if Edgar Wright was still director" posts are vastly more common than the opposite.

This. The average person watching these Marvel movies probably wouldn't even recognize Wright by name anyway. Its not them bringing him up in those threads, its the salty Wright fans crapping up the thread.
 
My biggest thing is with regards to the whole Ant Man thing is I feel Wright would have brought an entirely different feel to a Marvel movie and that's what I was hoping for. I liked Winter Soldier. I liked GOTG, Avengers was ok. Iron Man 1 was great. But all these Marvel films feel too safe, too same-y to me now. I get it, big safe blockbuster type movies make money and I'm ok with it, but when you have such a fantastic array of characters, having each of the movies have the same kind of feeling to them isn't doing any of them justice. They begin to feel less like an actual cohesive story and more like 3 main set pieces strung together with very loose ties (and it's not just marvel movies, the dark knight dark knight rises felt like this too). There is plenty of good source material to do different things but they keep pretty much hiring yes men style directors who will bend to Disney to do what they want without much creative freedom (but that's also a reflection on the state of the movie industry too, and not just marvel/disney).
 

J10

Banned
The hypocrisy of this really riles me.

Marvel has handed hundreds of millions to directors who are either unproven or who have made minutely-grossing movies regularly- Gunn, the Russos, Derrickson, even Whedon. The idea that it's good that Wright has gone because his movies haven't been blockbusters is absolute horseshit, and anyone seriously using it as an argument should step back from their fanboyism and just think.

The point is that his presence wouldn't make or break the movie either way. There is a very vocal group of posters who come into Ant-Man threads solely to express the sentiment that they don't give a shit about Ant-Man and that the only or primary reason they ever payed any attention to this movie was because Wright was involved. Now that he's gone they instead come into Ant-Man threads and talk about how unenthusiastic they feel about it, how the movie is destined to suck, how Marvel fucked up by not giving such a highly esteemed filmmaker the creative freedom to blah blah blah.

These people are just as annoying as the so-called MCU fanboys they dismiss as generally having terrible taste in movies.
 

anaron

Member
As someone who loves the MCU, the way I see it is: bunch of marvel stans refusing to let anything stand in the way of someone criticizing their precious corporation because marvel is unstoppable right now so STFU hater
 
He's an excellent director with a fascinating style and incredible attention to detail in nearly every shot.

Love all of his work and would have loved to have seen his version of Ant-Man, but alas it was not meant to be.
 
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