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[pramod]

Btw im surprised no one has made a meme yet about Jake's kids running off and getting into trouble/lost/kidnapped. Again. And again. And again.

In fact thats pretty much the plot of the whole movie.

I dunno, at some point dont u have to blame the parents? Its pretty much negligience and child endangerment.

 

[Punished Miku]

Btw im surprised no one has made a meme yet about Jake's kids running off and getting into trouble/lost/kidnapped. Again. And again. And again.

In fact thats pretty much the plot of the whole movie.

I dunno, at some point dont u have to blame the parents? Its pretty much negligience and child endangerment.

By the end he makes enough mistakes to and conquers them to be an interesting character. That's kind of what kids do. But I agree that the side characters were a little more entertaining in part 1.

 

[jason10mm]

Btw im surprised no one has made a meme yet about Jake's kids running off and getting into trouble/lost/kidnapped. Again. And again. And again.

In fact thats pretty much the plot of the whole movie.

I dunno, at some point dont u have to blame the parents? Its pretty much negligience and child endangerment.

I can believe they were casual about letting the kids run around, thats pretty much how life was pre-1990s.

What was unbelievable is there was no "birds and the bees" talk 'cause dem kids be getting busy the instant they swam outta sight

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Btw im surprised no one has made a meme yet about Jake's kids running off and getting into trouble/lost/kidnapped. Again. And again. And again.

In fact thats pretty much the plot of the whole movie.

I dunno, at some point dont u have to blame the parents? Its pretty much negligience and child endangerment.

Isn't that what kids do?
Especially if they're by themselves, unsupervised.
You can clearly see Jake struggling with keeping his family safe and out of trouble but their curiosity is what gets them into trouble hence Jake drilling them like soldiers.

 

[Spaceman292]

Btw im surprised no one has made a meme yet about Jake's kids running off and getting into trouble/lost/kidnapped. Again. And again. And again.

In fact thats pretty much the plot of the whole movie.

I dunno, at some point dont u have to blame the parents? Its pretty much negligience and child endangerment.

If his kids had playstations instead of running around in a jungle like idiots then they'd all be fine

 

[Bragr]

The dumb teenage navi ruin this movie.

 

[Ulysses 31]

The dumb teenage navi ruin this movie.

Kinda what like the Drinker says in his review

 

[sinnergy]

You can tell who has kids and who don’t in this thread

 

[DKehoe]

Isn't that what kids do?
Especially if they're by themselves, unsupervised.
You can clearly see Jake struggling with keeping his family safe and out of trouble but their curiosity is what gets them into trouble hence Jake drilling them like soldiers.

Yeh, they're clearly not meant to be perfect parents. I don't really get this thing where people see characters not making the perfect choice at all times and think that's a plothole or shortcoming. Like you say kids run off and don't do what they're told.

 

[jason10mm]

I get the concern that the kids led.to.a lack of focus in the story.

Fundamentally I'm.not sure why Jake thought just slipping away would solve anything. If Quaritch didn't KNOW Jake left, then he would keep hunting their old tribe/rebel humans. Unless they just ceased the raids, in which case I'm not sure Quaritch would then care either way(or at least still have the backing of the human general to conduct a personal vendetta). Were the humans back mining unobtanium at the site of the tree they knocked down in A1? Was the whale ambergris thing (and how did they even discover this?) the new unobtanium? 80mill per whale doesn't seem like enough to fund what, TEN interstellar ships and how many hundreds of people for a 15 year hitch (even if most of that was in cryo or whatever)?

Anyway, I know Cameron probably has all.this worked out, but for a 3+ hour run time there was a lot of scenery and a lot of neglecting motivations.

We need a Command & Conquer type RTS or even better, an Alpha Centauri mod that goes more into the economics and pacification efforts.

 

[Punished Miku]

I get the concern that the kids led.to.a lack of focus in the story.

Fundamentally I'm.not sure why Jake thought just slipping away would solve anything.

The more I think about it, the more it feels like important scenes got deleted late into production to get the run time down. But yes that is one of my primary criticisms of the plot. He basically brought the war to the other tribe's doorstep for no reason. I still loved the movie, but the plot has a few issues.

 

[Stuart360]

Bit surprised by the amount of you moaning about the kids. I thought the kids were the best part of the film, and stole the show.

 

[Stuart360]

The more I think about it, the more it feels like important scenes got deleted late into production to get the run time down. But yes that is one of my primary criticisms of the plot. He basically brought the war to the other tribe's doorstep for no reason. I still loved the movie, but the plot has a few issues.

If it wasnt for Kiri having the fit, Quaritch probably woudl never of found them,or at least it would of took a long time.

But yeah you can tell by some of the editing in the middle of the film that a lot of movie was cut, probably fairly late on i would guess.

 

[Chiggs]

So the final fight:

Spoiler

Neytiri just losing her goddamn mind after being overwhelmed by grief and rage after her son dies

Swear to god, the film could have swerved to horror. I empathized with Spider when he peered around the corner and was like WTF.

 

[Punished Miku]

So the final fight:

Spoiler

Neytiri just losing her goddamn mind after being overwhelmed by grief and rage after her son dies

Swear to god, the film could have swerved to horror. I empathized with Spider when he peered around the corner and was like WTF.

She was ridiculously cool in that scene.

 

[Scotty W]

Just saw it. Absolute mastery by James Cameron. Every shot had something interesting, something real going on. You can tell he has been collecting moments for a decade. The way he employed so many familiar tropes in new ways- Spider was a great example of this, he is Hermes, able to move between two worlds and be at home in both, he is even called an interpreter. Even though I had my guard up against the woke meta narrative, tonight Hermes lulled Argus to sleep.

 

[Chiggs]

She was ridiculously cool in that scene.

Yeah. I really dug the combat stuff on the boat. Pretty gruesome for a PG-13 movie.

 

[Chiggs]

In other news, not bad at all: 17.5 million Tuesday domestic.

https://deadline.com/2022/12/avatar-the-way-of-water-box-office-tuesday-1235204016/

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Stuart360]

In other news, not bad at all: 17.5 million Tuesday domestic.

https://deadline.com/2022/12/avatar-the-way-of-water-box-office-tuesday-1235204016/

Yeah and a very early Wednesday estimate hat Wed at 18mil, although that could obviously change with how early it was given (industry guy on Box Office Theory).
Its a clear sign of potential long legs, just like the first film. We need to remember though that this weekend has Christmas Eve in it, so this weekend is going to come in smaller than it would of on a normal weekend. No need for meltdowns from anyone ha.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

You can tell who has kids and who don’t in this thread

Have a kid but still think the YA stuff dragged the movie down, strange since Cameron was able to use a kid actor to great effect in T2.

 

[jason10mm]

So the final fight:

Spoiler

Neytiri just losing her goddamn mind after being overwhelmed by grief and rage after her son dies

Swear to god, the film could have swerved to horror. I empathized with Spider when he peered around the corner and was like WTF.

Yeah, that scene was FANTASTIC because I really thought she was just gonna kill anything even close to human at that point. Tarzan was right to hide.

To add another little nitpick, there the hell did the water tribe go after the inital assault on the boat? They tossed some spears and then ghosted. Again, I'm sure there was a 30 minute sequence of the chieftain deliberating about continuing the fight versus cutting bait and letting Jake live or die, but seems like maybe a little more time could have been spent on it.

 

[jason10mm]

Yeah and a very early Wednesday estimate hat Wed at 18mil, although that could obviously change with how early it was given (industry guy on Box Office Theory).
Its a clear sign of potential long legs, just like the first film. We need to remember though that this weekend has Christmas Eve in it, so this weekend is going to come in smaller than it would of on a normal weekend. No need for meltdowns from anyone ha.

I dunno, I used to go to the theater every xmas. Might be a good day for them.

 

[sinnergy]

Yeah, that scene was FANTASTIC because I really thought she was just gonna kill anything even close to human at that point. Tarzan was right to hide.

To add another little nitpick, there the hell did the water tribe go after the inital assault on the boat? They tossed some spears and then ghosted. Again, I'm sure there was a 30 minute sequence of the chieftain deliberating about continuing the fight versus cutting bait and letting Jake live or die, but seems like maybe a little more time could have been spent on it.

That was something me and my girlfriend both picked up on .. I think they cut that part from the movie , gone was the water king .

 

[SlimySnake]

In other news, not bad at all: 17.5 million Tuesday domestic.

https://deadline.com/2022/12/avatar-the-way-of-water-box-office-tuesday-1235204016/

I was going to watch the Tuesday showing since they are cheaper (Still $13 for imax) but didnt want to pay the $2.50 convenience fee. figured i would get good seats if i showed up at the theater but checked half an hour before the show and all the good seats were gone. the gallery was all sold out. Was definitely a good sign.

I think this might just have legs. Still not sure if the older audiences that made Top Gun a success will come back for something like Avatar 2, but i think they trust Cameron.

 

[Stuart360]

I dunno, I used to go to the theater every xmas. Might be a good day for them.

No you dont get what i mean, Christmas eve is always a bad day box office wise as cinemas shut half day in the US. Christmas Day can sometimes be pretty big, but it can also see a hit if people are spending the day at home with their families etc.

 

[Stuart360]

18.3mil official Tuesday. Very nice number and a VERY nice jump from Monday.
Yes this film is going to be very leggy.

I very much doubt the 18mil Wednesday number the industry guy gave earlir as wednsday is almost always the lowest day of the wek, and by quite a distance sometimes.
So i'm going to guess at 16-16.5mil for Wednesday, but if it does hit 18mil then damn the sky is the limit for this film legs wise.

 

[Bragr]

Bit surprised by the amount of you moaning about the kids. I thought the kids were the best part of the film, and stole the show.

It's because they are essentially the modern "rebellious" kids, but they are not normal human kids, they are natives and aliens. They are out of place. Like having the goonies in Saving Private Ryan.

They are also boring, have shit personalities, and take up half the movie. You show up for Avatar and you get alien college dropouts instead.

 

[Stuart360]

It's because they are essentially the modern "rebellious" kids, but they are not normal human kids, they are natives and aliens. They are out of place. Like having the goonies in Saving Private Ryan.

They are also boring, have shit personalities, and take up half the movie. You show up for Avatar and you get alien college dropouts instead.

Look a lot of people Like AVATAR for different reasons. I have seen people moan about the nature doc style parts of the movie, and complain about most of the action being at the end of the movie.
While those nature doc parts, with the mesmerizing undwater sequences with the kids playing with the animals, all while ambient music is playing, its those scenes why i love AVATAR, both films. I can see a lot of the general masses thinking those scenes are boring though.

 

[sinnergy]

It's because they are essentially the modern "rebellious" kids, but they are not normal human kids, they are natives and aliens. They are out of place. Like having the goonies in Saving Private Ryan.

They are also boring, have shit personalities, and take up half the movie. You show up for Avatar and you get alien college dropouts instead.

Your opinion .. and that’s fine. Thanks for seeing the movie , 1 sale

 

[Bragr]

Look a lot of people Like AVATAR for different reasons. I have seen people moan about the nature doc style parts of the movie, and complain about most of the action being at the end of the movie.
While those nature doc parts, with the mesmerizing undwater sequences with the kids playing with the animals, all while ambient music is playing, its those scenes why i love AVATAR, both films. I can see a lot of the general masses thinking those scenes are boring though.

The general masses are the ones who like it, it's people who watch a good deal of moves who got issues. Sure, some people moan about it, and some people naively love anything that shines.

I don't hate the movie, it was fine, and the incredible effects are enough to warrant a view, but it's a strange one. It is James Cameron's conservation obsession wrapped around odd cliche storytelling with legendary levels of visual effects and aliens that are just big blue native americans.

 

[Punished Miku]

big blue native americans.

The sea people were definitely big blue polynesians, indigenous new zealanders, etc.

The forest people seem more like south american tribes in the amazon honestly.

 

[SirKicksalot]

Meanwhile, in the real world

Cliff Curtis opens up about Avatar role

www.teaomaori.news

Every time he talks about Avatar he mentions how awesome it was to incorporate his traditions in it and bring his buddies to do a haka and other ceremonies, some of which ended up in the final cut.

 

[jason10mm]

Meanwhile, in the real world

Cliff Curtis opens up about Avatar role

www.teaomaori.news

Every time he talks about Avatar he mentions how awesome it was to incorporate his traditions in it and bring his buddies to do a haka and other ceremonies, some of which ended up in the final cut.

It is kinda interesting that the nav'i have very.......tribal rituals and actions (tongue wagging, the accents, the patterned tattoos, even their mode of speaking is kinda stereotypical "native indian me speak this way") which does give them a non-industrial feel at the risk of not feeling particularly alien. Be interesting if we get kilt wearing, wode-smeared, scottish brogue clansmen in the mountain version of Avatar 3 or even eskimo/inuit/sami inspiration if they go to an arctic region (and we know Cameron has toyed with "ice planet" ideas before). This sorta works because non-industrial societies probably come up with similar solutions given similar environments, like hunting with a bow, weaving baskets and nets, skin painting and piercings as adornment, etc and the loose familiarity on-boards audiences more quickly.

I'd love to see how the hell they were able to tattoo whales with skin so think a rocket harpoon can barely penetrate though. I think "rule of cool" trumps realism thought because those things were pretty cool.

I also wonder why we see so many excess limbed or eyed lower (or equal, if you count the whales) organisms on Pandora but not in the Nav'i. I'm guessing they are not actually indigenous to the moon or were a deliberate off shoot by Eywa for some reason. Obviously for the ability to depict and relate to an alien the humanoid form is almost mandatory, but I suspect Cameron has pondered this and it will come into play later on.

 

[SirKicksalot]

I also wonder why we see so many excess limbed or eyed lower (or equal, if you count the whales) organisms on Pandora but not in the Nav'i. I'm guessing they are not actually indigenous to the moon or were a deliberate off shoot by Eywa for some reason. Obviously for the ability to depict and relate to an alien the humanoid form is almost mandatory, but I suspect Cameron has pondered this and it will come into play later on.

Well these dudes have two eyes, no chest operculum and their upper limbs are partially fused together:

So they're kind of a missing link between the other creatures and the Na'vi.
Everything else has six limbs, four eyes and those chest openings, which are reminiscent of a design phase where the team was looking at automotive design. They're like sportscar intakes. The stripes on everything are also inspired by racing vehicles. The final designs are very familiar at a glance but the more you look, the weirder they seem.

 

[pramod]

If his kids had playstations instead of running around in a jungle like idiots then they'd all be fine

I dont have a problem with rebellious kids as a plot device. I just find it a bit repetitive to do the same thing 5 or 6 times in one movie, thats all. I was starting to get deja vu whenever the kid called his dad "uhh hey dad we fucked up again....and everyone is here"

 

[Stuart360]

I dont have a problem with rebellious kids as a plot device. I just find it a bit repetitive to do the same thing 5 or 6 times in one movie, thats all. I was starting to get deja vu whenever the kid called his dad "uhh hey dad we fucked up again....and everyone is here"

To be fair, they didnt know the humans were going to show up at that time.

I get what you're saying though but it didnt bother me, its just kids and teens being kids and teens.

 

[BossLackey]

Btw im surprised no one has made a meme yet about Jake's kids running off and getting into trouble/lost/kidnapped. Again. And again. And again.

In fact thats pretty much the plot of the whole movie.

I dunno, at some point dont u have to blame the parents? Its pretty much negligience and child endangerment.

lmao my wife and I were like "are you fucking kidding me?" the third time it happened.

"Who's with you?"

"Uhh, hehe, about that..."

 

[RaduN]

Nah, focusing on the kids was absolutely the right move.
And it is done well, with some pretty neat character progression that goes hand in hand with the lore expansion.
Of course there would be a small retcon here, a McGuffin there, but it is unavoidable when you try to both soft-reboot and advance the story at the same time.

The one thing i miss from the story though, is the charming human characters of the 1st. But of course, those will never return, the story has to go forward.

 

[jason10mm]

Well these dudes have two eyes, no chest operculum and their upper limbs are partially fused together:

So they're kind of a missing link between the other creatures and the Na'vi.
Everything else has six limbs, four eyes and those chest openings, which are reminiscent of a design phase where the team was looking at automotive design. They're like sportscar intakes. The stripes on everything are also inspired by racing vehicles. The final designs are very familiar at a glance but the more you look, the weirder they seem.

Good point, could be a primate analogue. It would be cool if the Nav'i were all double jointed or something and could move like the robots in "I, Robot". Guess it would be hard on the mo-cap though.

 

[Chiggs]

Nah, focusing on the kids was absolutely the right move.
And it is done well, with some pretty neat character progression that goes hand in hand with the lore expansion.
Of course there would be a small retcon here, a McGuffin there, but it is unavoidable when you try to both soft-reboot and advance the story at the same time.

The one thing i miss from the story though, is the charming human characters of the 1st. But of course, those will never return, the story has to go forward.

I enjoyed the kids helping the parents at the end. It was the right move for the plot.

 

[PSYGN]

Good movie but I felt like the movie could be shorter without hurting it (maybe even helping it considering the low attention span of kids these days). It felt like I was watching a version with extra scenes sometimes.

 

[AJUMP23]

I’m going tomorrow. When I see it I will come back to review my thoughts.

 

[PSYGN]

I’m going tomorrow. When I see it I will come back to review my thoughts.

Thank you

 

[AJUMP23]

Thank you

You’re welcome.

 

[balls of snow]

I'm afraid to watch this.

Loved the first one. Scared this one will be filled with modern Disney propaganda tropes.

It is the most patriarch movie out there. Long live the patriarchy.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

I dont have a problem with rebellious kids as a plot device. I just find it a bit repetitive to do the same thing 5 or 6 times in one movie, thats all. I was starting to get deja vu whenever the kid called his dad "uhh hey dad we fucked up again....and everyone is here"

Oh come on

Spoiler

They got in trouble running around the first abandoned research facility. Kids being kids when left unsupervised.

Then they tried to free the harpoon from a whale, not knowing the humans in their gigantic hovercraft would show up from around the corner which led to them being kidnapped/held hostage.

The subsequent sequences after being held hostage they're looking out for one another trying to round everyone up and get away from the boat/ship. If your siblings are in imminent danger, I'm damn sure you won't run in the other direction and leave them behind.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

I’m going tomorrow. When I see it I will come back to review my thoughts.

We don't give a shit about your thoughts

 

[Marvel14]

It's undoubtedly a visual feast. The story is part multiple retreads, part new interesting dynamics but characters and story are still largely one Dimensional "goodies vs baddies". For those of us who love nuanced storytelling like in GoT where characters are flawed and complex, the Way of Water comes across as the most beautiful, visually flawless but most expensive kids cinematic cartoon ever devised.

 

[Marvel14]

We don't give a shit about your thoughts

Why don't you quit this forum then if you don't want to hear a diversity of opinions. And reread your own spoiler, the same plot point does repeat multiple times, that there is justification for it doesn't suddenly make it untrue.