MaestroMike
Gold Member
caught it at a 10 pm showing theatre was small although the screen was pretty large good amount of people in the theatre too. Didn’t disappoint gonna rewatch it on wednesday
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Avatar: The Way of Water | Review Thread
- Thread starter Draugoth
- Start date
He will obviously become that unknown quantity, neither good nor completely bad.
I expect him to have a major impact in the conflict that's about to come, a sort of Grey Fox moment if you will.
This is one clichè i'd love to happen.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Thinking back on it, I’m even more displeased with the film. First time Cameron let me down. Is there going to be a spoiler thread ?
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
I mean, yeah, you’re not wrong. Any film that has released at all will have more impact and quality than films of a Phase that hasn’t even started yet…..
you know what I meant lol. typo!
Pagusas
Elden Member
Its a far worse movie than Top Gun. Top Gun was an experience + a decent story + amazing editing + Perfect Length. I can watch (and have) this film multiple times and still get pumped.
Avatar 2 is an Experience + A Video Game Story + Too long. I can't imagine ever desiring to watch it again, but glad I saw it once.
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They aren’t comparable at all .. I liked them both for what they are .
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Billbofet
Member
Saw it with my family and I enjoyed it for the most part. The action was very intense and refreshing, but I think it was too long.
My biggest regret is not seeing it in 3d. I think that would have really made it a much better experience.
I hope it does well, though. As much as I felt it was too long, it took time to develop most of the characters, and the parts meant to tug at the heart all worked on me.
It also felt half the length of Wakanda Forever even though that movie wasn't nearly as long.
My biggest regret is not seeing it in 3d. I think that would have really made it a much better experience.
I hope it does well, though. As much as I felt it was too long, it took time to develop most of the characters, and the parts meant to tug at the heart all worked on me.
It also felt half the length of Wakanda Forever even though that movie wasn't nearly as long.
Pagusas
Elden Member
All films are comparable, they are all entertainment mediums trying to get you to spend hours of your life with them.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Weekend numbers up yet?
Hawking Radiation
Member
Its really fucking good isn't it.
I've never been more keen to watch a 'Making Of' video for a movie before like this one.
How in god's green earth did they get some of those shots. Even on my 2nd viewing the level of detail still blew me away.
In my 2nd session I noticed again how quiet people were during some of the scenes especially the underwater stuff. No doubt people were shocked at what they were witnessing on screen.
Hawking Radiation
Member
$435 million opening weekend
I dunno. Holy Smokes?? That seems like a whole lot for just opening weekend
‘Avatar: The Way of Water’ Delivers $435 Million Opening Weekend at Global Box Office
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TaylorSwiftFan
Member
BvS was $424M in 2016.
PanzerAzel
Member
I think I’ve reached a point where CGI is so impressive that it’s not.
It tends to impress me more when it has at least some indication of the tremendous effort it takes to achieve its level of fidelity and how natural it flows, that is, some form of flaw or tell, yet one not big enough to pull me away from my suspension of disbelief. When it’s so flawless to photo-realism (as it is here), my mind simply accepts it as a given aligned to the reality I experience every day. To say, I’m not any more impressed with the CGI of 2 than I was with 1.
I suppose if I was in the industry and cognizant of all the newest technological advancements CGI has introduced in 13 years I’d feel a bit more appreciation towards it, but as a layperson who knows no better, they appear as marginal refinements to a craft that has already reached the point of convincing to the degree of which is required.
It tends to impress me more when it has at least some indication of the tremendous effort it takes to achieve its level of fidelity and how natural it flows, that is, some form of flaw or tell, yet one not big enough to pull me away from my suspension of disbelief. When it’s so flawless to photo-realism (as it is here), my mind simply accepts it as a given aligned to the reality I experience every day. To say, I’m not any more impressed with the CGI of 2 than I was with 1.
I suppose if I was in the industry and cognizant of all the newest technological advancements CGI has introduced in 13 years I’d feel a bit more appreciation towards it, but as a layperson who knows no better, they appear as marginal refinements to a craft that has already reached the point of convincing to the degree of which is required.
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Is it possible that the overlap with the World Cup finals affected 1st week showings?
Apparently some 6 bil people watched the finals.
nush
Member
A wild cope appeared.
ZehDon
Gold Member
One element worth noting at this stage: 'The Way of Water' is Cameron's biggest opening. Ever. Week 2 is where we'll see if Cameron's still got his gravity defying magic.
Sleepwalker
Member
Just watched, in 2d. Didn't love, didn't hate. Plot was ok, I usually don't like when the plot focuses too much on the kids and this was no different, feels like theyve couldve used the villain more. He wakes up gets a tour of a facility and suddenly hes already hunting jake.
The effects were the best ive ever seen, the water was incredible and so were the creatures. The action was great and entertaining.
I would like to watch it back in 3d but also I dont feel like I have it in me to be at the theathre for so long. There were some parts where I pulled up my phone because I was bored. That almost never happens in movies for me.
The effects were the best ive ever seen, the water was incredible and so were the creatures. The action was great and entertaining.
I would like to watch it back in 3d but also I dont feel like I have it in me to be at the theathre for so long. There were some parts where I pulled up my phone because I was bored. That almost never happens in movies for me.
haters
pramod
Banned
Is there going to be a spoiler thread?
Anyway I already posted my impressions in the other thread, but I just want to point out some of the things that bothered me:
Why don't the earthlings make a hovercraft canopy that can resist arrow shots?
The Spider character is just so weirdly written. I don't know if it's bad writing or a whole bunch of scenes were left out.
Why didn't everyone wear those pink butterfly things when they dive in the water? Do they just enjoy holding their breaths until their lungs explode a lot more?
Anyway I already posted my impressions in the other thread, but I just want to point out some of the things that bothered me:
Why don't the earthlings make a hovercraft canopy that can resist arrow shots?
The Spider character is just so weirdly written. I don't know if it's bad writing or a whole bunch of scenes were left out.
Why didn't everyone wear those pink butterfly things when they dive in the water? Do they just enjoy holding their breaths until their lungs explode a lot more?
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PanzerAzel
Member
Yeah, I’d appreciate a spoiler thread as well.
What were those wings? It appeared they were some way to find and leave a trail for them to get out of the ship, but I went to the restroom once so might’ve missed them showing their introduction. Don’t recall it.
pramod
Banned
The fish girl told the Sigourney girl about it in one brief scene(sorry I don't remember anyone's names), she said "hey wear this, it lets you breathe underwater."
And I was like...uhh....ok? That seems kind of...useful? So why don't they use more of these things that are just floating everywhere in the water?
And then they never mention it again and no one else ever uses it, until that last scene in the ship.
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I will try to briefly adress your questions, as i understand it.
There are ships in the movie (the bigger ones) with arrow proof glass, but not all, maybe for weight purposes or cost. Not all helicopter glass is bullet proof either, for various reasons.
Spider is a 12(?) years old kid, a little hot head, classic orphan type, with clear daddy issues. He figures out pretty quickly that the antagonist is, for all intents and purposes his actual father, which he kinda hates, but also secretly longs to look up to.
All this is pretty aptly shown in the movie, and because of this, their moment at the end is predictable in a way, but also very satisfying and sets the stage for interesting future story developments.
Regarding the pink oxygen providers.
1. The water tribe doesn't really need them apparently.
2. They most likely hamper the swiming somewhat.
3. They don't seem to be everywhere in the water, just in some spots.
It is almost certain that scenes were cut. Probably many, and a (substantialy maybe?) longer DC version will be very appealing.
I'm not that sure the pink wings generate O2 so much as make swimming easier which equal less O2 used. The water tribe seemed to view "breathing" in a rather philosophical sense.
If there isn't a tie in with Subnautica......YUGE MISSED OPORTUNITY!
Make it all about that whale scientist guy having to get back to base.
If there isn't a tie in with Subnautica......YUGE MISSED OPORTUNITY!
Make it all about that whale scientist guy having to get back to base.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Saw it yesterday.
Plot:
Everything else:
Plot:
- Less engaging than the first movie. It doesn't really make that much sense after the first movie that Jake would just not attempt to fight, and would leave the forest tribes. There's no real indication that he knows that their only goal is to hunt just him, when the whole military is talking about taking over the entire planet now.
- Part 1 had more likeable side characters. The scientists, the helicopter pilot, small roles that were just likeable people that didn't drag the movie down a ton.
- Too many scenes with teenage Sigourney Weaver laying in the grass or petting fish.
- Too many scenes with female Navi crying/yelling in the exact same way as they did in part 1.
- They could have explained communication with the whales a bit more so it didn't come off quite as cheesy. Having a skeptic character would have helped, similar to how the scientists and Jake himself were skeptics to the Navi customs in the first one, as it brings the audience along with explanations too their questions.
- Once again the main villain gives a fantastic performance. He's one of the best characters in both films. The Navi marines were awesome as well, like a mutant version of the crew from Aliens.
- Jake is pretty cool in this, similar to the last one. By the end you finally get to liking his kids and seeing their growing pains finally materialize.
Everything else:
- Easily the best visual effects ever created in history. Saw it in IMAX 3D with HFR and it literally just looks fucking crazy. Whether it's a fight scene, a water diving scene, mechanical equipment scene - it just looks shockingly good. Like the first time I saw Ground Zeroes at 60fps x 1000. The crab subs just look real. Everything looks real.
- Brutal, and awesome fight scenes in this one. Wish there were more, because they're amazing.
- Some trademark Cameron water action scenes in flooding hallways, always great.
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Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Part 1? It was a short two week run in September.
I'm hoping they put out a 4K HFR version for sale at least.
th4tguy
Member
My understanding was they needed and expected 2 billion opening weekend and that was to break even.
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I can’t find where I read this so take it with a grain of salt
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Now that I think about it, the humans weeerrreee just leaving their semi-conscious avatar bodies lying around when they were not in them. Someone slipping it to Weavers avatar while she was away does sound like something a bunch of half terrified humans light-years away from earth and largely confined to a single compound would do 
Then again, if Quaritch could have a side piece no one knew about, maybe she did too.
Then again, if Quaritch could have a side piece no one knew about, maybe she did too.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
2 billion total, not opening weekend lol.
Puscifer
Member
I should've mentioned that those same theaters aren't playing Way of Water in IMAX, just regular 3-D.
pramod
Banned
So anyway, after watching this is just further affirms for me that while Cameron is the king of filming action, he just isn't very good at world building.
I think one of the reasons I really couldn't connect with the characters, or this "universe" in general, is that the Navi aren't realistic. Or they are portrayed in such an unreal manner that I just can't get immersed.
So they are depicted as these perfect, giant, powerful, intelligent beings that seem to be 100% in harmony with nature.
And one of the most basic things that puzzles me is, what do they eat? We never see the Navi ingest anything in the whole movie, not even fruits or berries.
The most logical assumption would be that they eat meat, and probably a lot of it, to be able to sustain such large powerful bodies, but we never seem them hunt/kill/eat anything.
And where do they get all the raw materials to build their huts, weapons, clothes, etc?
So that implies that must have to do very "human" things like hunt, fish, skin, etc...but then that would also imply they aren't really "harmonized" with nature as they appear.
And why do these peaceful non-violent creatures enjoy spear-fishing? Seems kind of cruel to me...especially they don't even seem to do it for food.
And I think Cameron's not-so-subtle messaging in the movie is that modern humans with their technology is evil, and that we need to be more like the Navi?
Well, yeah, sure if humans have evolved to be gigantic, super strong and tough like the Navi then maybe they might have never evolved to need all this evil technology.
But humans aren't 12 feet tall, and able to kill wild life with their bare hands...
I think one of the reasons I really couldn't connect with the characters, or this "universe" in general, is that the Navi aren't realistic. Or they are portrayed in such an unreal manner that I just can't get immersed.
So they are depicted as these perfect, giant, powerful, intelligent beings that seem to be 100% in harmony with nature.
And one of the most basic things that puzzles me is, what do they eat? We never see the Navi ingest anything in the whole movie, not even fruits or berries.
The most logical assumption would be that they eat meat, and probably a lot of it, to be able to sustain such large powerful bodies, but we never seem them hunt/kill/eat anything.
And where do they get all the raw materials to build their huts, weapons, clothes, etc?
So that implies that must have to do very "human" things like hunt, fish, skin, etc...but then that would also imply they aren't really "harmonized" with nature as they appear.
And why do these peaceful non-violent creatures enjoy spear-fishing? Seems kind of cruel to me...especially they don't even seem to do it for food.
And I think Cameron's not-so-subtle messaging in the movie is that modern humans with their technology is evil, and that we need to be more like the Navi?
Well, yeah, sure if humans have evolved to be gigantic, super strong and tough like the Navi then maybe they might have never evolved to need all this evil technology.
But humans aren't 12 feet tall, and able to kill wild life with their bare hands...
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
All of that stuff is in the first movie. He is taught to kill for food. He literally eats a fruit.
They are basically indians. Of course they take from the world, but they dont overdo it like we do. They didnt hunt for sport. And they treated their forests with respect.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think Ewa just made her a clone. Kinda like Aloy in HFW. She couldnt save her body but she was able to clone her and put it inside the avatar as a fetus.Now that I think about it, the humans weeerrreee just leaving their semi-conscious avatar bodies lying around when they were not in them. Someone slipping it to Weavers avatar while she was away does sound like something a bunch of half terrified humans light-years away from earth and largely confined to a single compound would do
Then again, if Quaritch could have a side piece no one knew about, maybe she did too.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
A clone with Ewa power boost.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yeah, shes basically born of a virgin mary. She's this world's jesus christ.
I fully expected her to revive the brother. maybe she revives jake in the next one.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
She's going to win over the villain somehow, and they're going to make peace with humanity and try to find a balance where the two can coexist - the human son who acts like a Navi and the Navi who is a human. Or she will send flying whales through space to smash the next round of ships when they enter orbit. Either one sounds sick lol.
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DanteFox
Member
I saw it last night in 3D. The visuals are absolutely stunning and the 3D really immerses you. The flying scenes, water scenes and space station scenes feel like you're on a ride at Disneyland in the best way. You're just enjoying it and taking it all in. By the climax, the tension has built enough, and the stakes have been raised such that the payoff is great. I really enjoyed the movie. I highly recommend seeing it in 3D. That was the full experience for the first one and it's the same with this one.
The only criticism I really have is that some of the wider shots that are showing movement through the environment evoked video game cutscenes to me. The movement in those shots didn't quite capture the "weight" that would realistically be present with a train, or someone leaping through the jungle, or swimming. Some of it seemed like the models weren't being swept through a preprogrammed track, of that makes sense.
The only criticism I really have is that some of the wider shots that are showing movement through the environment evoked video game cutscenes to me. The movement in those shots didn't quite capture the "weight" that would realistically be present with a train, or someone leaping through the jungle, or swimming. Some of it seemed like the models weren't being swept through a preprogrammed track, of that makes sense.
See, this is why I think Eywa, the planet spanning fungal intelligence, is actually the one calling the shots. It created (or allowed to evolve) all the creatures and plants on Pandora for its own amusement and it subtly drives them for a harmonious co-existence.
Take those whales, "they used to fight for territory but then they just all agreed to never kill" solves exactly JACK SHIT for resources, competition for mates, or dealing with an invasive new predator. It only makes sense if Eywa is forcing the issue as it has the proper high altitude view that each little tribe should be perpetually content with its own little plot of land.
Downright evil and worthy of destruction, if you ask me.
Deja Blue!
Seems biologically difficult with human gametes but we don't really know much about nav'i biology so maybe they have a hermaphrodite capability. Guess we'll find out if Spider knocks up the hybrid in A3
I agree it's an immaculate conception but I also wouldn't count out some sexy time with an undocked avatar by a lonely geeky scientist with few other options
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
well, my first guess was norm sneaking one in Kill Bill style, but then they made fun of that in the movie. she literally says she would swallow acid lmao.Seems biologically difficult with human gametes but we don't really know much about nav'i biology so maybe they have a hermaphrodite capability. Guess we'll find out if Spider knocks up the hybrid in A3
I agree it's an immaculate conception but I also wouldn't count out some sexy time with an undocked avatar by a lonely geeky scientist with few other options
pramod
Banned
Oh ok thanks, but I think that's one of the big problems of releasing a sequel 13 years later...you can't expect people to remember or still have the same attachment to the original after so much time has passed.
I thought maybe he could have at least done some kind of "flashback" scene to explain what happened in the last movie? I personally don't remember ANYTHING about the first one.
Seems like Cameron is expecting people to react like they just saw Avatar 1 and it's still fresh in their minds as they go into Avatar 2? But that's just ridiculous.
Maybe it's just hubris? "Hey, I made Avatar 1 was so amazing and memorable how can you not remember it?"
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Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
They did re-release it in theaters. I saw it in September. So I don't think he really expected people to remember, and they put it out again with frame rate enhancements.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
It needed to have a 2x larger opening weekend than the current largest opening weekend of all-time to break even?
lmao get some better sources
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
not opening weekend. lifetime.
And im gonna question that. 1 billion lifetime means the movie cost $1 billion to produce and market which is highly unlikely. But that number came straight from James Cameron so who knows. He did shoot 2 and 3 back to back so its possible that the budget for 2 and 3 is $1 billion but again, i just dont think the movie cost $1 billion. I just read that the marketing spend was $220 million and the production budget was $460 million. That still brings it below $700 million. Theaters take 50% with the studio taking 75% in the first weekend so $1.4 billion should be enough to break even.
It's possible James Cameron is including the 8 years he spent on R&D before he even started shooting.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
Just watched it and was blown away by the motion 3d and cuts. Just unreal
