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[Mononoke]

But if nobody buys their console....

Does GAF represent the average consumer?

I guess the question is, will this sort of thing bother the majority of people that buy consoles. I'm not sure. I fully acknowledge that any kind of forum like GAF - is generally for enthusiasts. And I'm always weary of how much our opinion, is going to reflect the popular opinion/habits of the consumer.

 

[ironcreed]

ignoring a console with as big a base as PS4 will likely have is a huge loss of potential revenue. More than you would get from one console with no used game sales. By far.

This.

 

[Baconsammy]

Because of this news, I am buying the new Xbox and only the new Xbox.

You'll get blasted for this post, but I feel you. Some of the same people lamenting the death of third party after third party are the same crying over measures that would help these same companies stay in business. The sticking point for me ultimately will be pricing schemes. If MS drops their fascistic approach to pricing controls and allows publishers to alter pricing at will, this will be great. Otherwise I think it will be disastrous.

 

[DarkPanda]

To those saying that people will flock to the PS4, what if they have no choice? What if MS did this by securing publisher-wide exclusivity deals with the majority of the big publishers? If CoD, Madden, FIFA, ect are all Xbox exclusive, does the PS4 even have a market anymore? Sony would be in a Nintendo-like position where they have to support their console almost solely with first party releases, and I'm not sure they can do that.

 

[Jac_Solar]

This is absurd, and incredibly spiteful toward their supporters. They'd make money even with a regular, offline xbox, but of course they won't settle for some profit if they can make a lot of profit, even if it's at the expense of the gaming industry.

The people who think that they are doing this to make a profit from older games so they can focus on making "great games again" are kidding themselves. Most game companies are only in it for the profit, and this is a blatant attempt at making even more.

Does anyone really believe that they will start making good games/old school games again if they make more profits from older games (Which is unlikely, since used games provided funds for people to buy newer games with, as well as introduce people to games they wouldn't have played otherwise.)? No, they will continue making Dudebro shooters, they will continue locking away DLC content, and so forth.

No used market means people will take less risks with games, and will only buy games with extremely good reviews, or a sequel to a game they loved, for example. This only reinforces the "AAA" mentality of publishers, since those types of games would be the only games with a chance of success in such an enviroment.

This gives Microsoft, shareholders, publishers, etc. far, far more power than they have today. This gives them absolute control over every possible aspect of a game and your xbox.

 

[erawsd]

I'm not on a 100MB connection (Less than a third of that actually) and in the time and cost it would take me to go, buy the game, and return I can download a 30GB-50GB game.

A 50GB file @ 30mbps would take over 3 hours; that is assuming that you've maxed out the connection entirely with zero overhead. The average speed across america is 7mbps, so it would take the average household 19hrs+ to download that same game. Then you have to get ito the data limits many of those people have to deal with.

Considering most americans live within 15minutes of a walmart, I'm sure they can get to the store and back a lot faster than waiting on a download.

 

[bangai-o]

Microsoft knows of the huge market that would be excluded. gaf isnt having any common sense here.

 

[Uiki]

Leaks have been fishy for a while now:
- Initial DF/Eurogamer article goes into full detail about the next PS4. Xbox gets mentioned but no follow up article about that;
- Nvidia developer goes into great detail about the DF/Eurogamer article, praises the PS4 hardware but has less kind words about the next Xbox;
- Durango specs released, with some interesting tidbits still deemed to be "incomplete";
- Orbis Roadmap and types releases, charting in bizarre detail how everything will go;
- Poll is setup to ask to people what they want to know about the PS4;
- We get the PS4 unveiled article, what makes it weird is that moments after it is updated because of CPU confusion;
- Sony announces the February 20 event.

Bottom line is this all feel like the leaks are very controlled. Like it feels all too convenient leading up to the Feb event.

Maybe I’m reading too much into this.

Remember that leaked roadmap for durango in the coming years?

There's some truth in this rumors, i think...all leading to a cloud-gaming-microsoft-future, if you ask me.

 

[MikeE21286]

Does GAF represent the average consumer?

I guess the question is, will this sort of thing bother the majority of people that buy consoles. I'm not sure. I fully acknowledge that any kind of forum like GAF - is generally for enthusiasts. And I'm always weary of how much our opinion, is going to reflect the popular opinion/habits of the consumer.

That's the problem. The average consumers buys lots of used games, moreso than the average GAF member

 

[Can Crusher]

ignoring a console with as big a base as PS4 will likely have is a huge loss of potential revenue. More than you would get from one console with no used game sales. By far.

What is a videogame system with no Fifa? With no Call of Duty, no Battlefield, no Madden?

Gamers would just simply buy the system where those are on. They wouldn't think twice about it either.

This shit is bleak

 

[Biggzy]

Of course it does, FUD is everywhere. But this is pretty significant news, which they even immediately wrote a solidifying back-up for. I don't think a publication like EDGE is going to spread that much FUD and then immediately back it up. This is not some Sony Defense Force blog we are talking about, lol.

Lol of course not. I am not disputing EDGE's sources for this story, just noting that it's not beyond the realms of possibility that this is a controlled story.

 

[DopeyFish]

You'll get blasted for this post, but I feel you. Some of the same people lamenting the death of third party after third party are the same crying over measures that would help these same companies stay in business. The sticking point for me ultimately will be pricing schemes. If MS drops their fascistic approach to pricing controls and allows publishers to alter pricing at will, this will be great. Otherwise I think it will be disastrous.

I will support both if they both do it. It needs to be done, the second hand market has become out of control

 

[A.R.K]

what IF they block the used games sales BUT sell the games cheaper say like $50 or $45 or even $40 for new games? I think that might work?

Also all those saying meh I'll skip next gen (assuming both MS and Sony do this), yeah right, I'll see how many of you can resist once you guys see those new shiny games

 

[Mononoke]

That's the problem. The average consumers buys lots of used games, moreso than the average GAF member

Good point.

 

[alphaNoid]

Leaks have been fishy for a while now:
- Initial DF/Eurogamer article goes into full detail about the next PS4. Xbox gets mentioned but no follow up article about that;
- Nvidia developer goes into great detail about the DF/Eurogamer article, praises the PS4 hardware but has less kind words about the next Xbox;
- Durango specs released, with some interesting tidbits still deemed to be "incomplete";
- Orbis Roadmap and types releases, charting in bizarre detail how everything will go;
- Poll is setup to ask to people what they want to know about the PS4;
- We get the PS4 unveiled article, what makes it weird is that moments after it is updated because of CPU confusion;
- Sony announces the February 20 event.

Bottom line is this all feel like the leaks are very controlled. Like it feels all too convenient leading up to the Feb event.

Maybe I’m reading too much into this.

There has been more PS4 leaks for sure, and I'm not sure if we've gotten a full rundown of the complete Durango hardware as well. Also there are rumors of 2 Xbox's launching in 2013.. any/none/all of these rumors about always on, digital only could impact any/none/all of these Xbox's releasing.

Its basically pre next gen hype, and people are in a frenzy with information as usual. One thing is for sure, we will fine out soon enough

 

[quest]

They will flock to the platform with the most support, regardless.

If publishers want it they could easily blackmail sony into it. All it take is EA and other big time 3rd parties to say no PS4 games till used game issue is taken care of. Good luck selling new console with out madden and COD these days. It won't go that far if 1 is doing it both are doing it because of pressure of publishers.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Going hard in the paint about a website wanting hits (duh) is much more than wanting logic and assumptions. How many quotes did he have of you saying the same thing over and over? don't play that card man.

Considering most of those quotes were selective and ignored that they were replies in multiple different conditions....

I'm going hard because I've seen this done before and somehow me questioning the credibility of EDGE makes me part of the Microsoft PR Team?

I've in no way defended Microsoft in either going for or not going for the actions involved in the rumor. In fact I've said multiple times, including the first EDGE thread, that I believe neither Microsoft nor Sony will go in this direction.

Now if we can end the discussion about me as this thread isn't about me or who I lean towards.

BTW, If you're going to critique me(or call me out) in the future send me a PM don't derail a thread for it.

 

[denshuu]

Watch both parties never even acknowledge this entire issue and watch them both support used games.

That is what's going to happen.

And 5 or 6 years down the line, Gaf will be having this exact same discussion again.

 

[FrankT]

Watching these headlines hit Bloomberg Live in reference to GameStop stock. Good times.

 

[gofreak]

How do you mean? The only way I see it as being binary is if they are not convinced of the direction. MS is in the position with both marketshare and influence to pioneer this in the console space.

I mean in terms of a platform holder completely stopping used sales or do something more middle-of-the-road.

I'm not sure if one platform holder went all in that the other would be all out. The policies might be less black and white than that.

We'll see where it goes.

 

[Dr Dogg]

Leaks have been fishy for a while now:

Bottom line is this all feel like the leaks are very controlled. Like it feels all too convenient leading up to the Feb event.

Maybe I’m reading too much into this.

No not at all as they seams mostly positive. Where as this is a rather negative story for the consumer. Say someone reads the headline from a republished site that says "New Xbox won't play used games" and from there decides to avoid it and focus on Orbsis news. That's surely playing totally into the hands of Sony either way and you would have thought that Microsoft would be quick to quash any rumors for fear of damage to their marketing strategy which has to be planned out by now.

 

[GloveSlap]

Anyone who thinks this type of thing will foster more innovation in games needs to think again. If I can't sell a game then the only one I am buying at full price is going to be the multiplayer staples like Halo or Call of Duty. Something I am going to play for years.

 

[ironcreed]

Lol of course not. I am not disputing EDGE's sources for this story, just noting that it's not beyond the realms of possibility that this is a controlled story.

If it's controlled, then I don't think EDGE is in on it and are just running with what was 'leaked' to them. Either way, if this ends up being bunk, then they are no longer to be trusted on my end.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

What is a videogame system with no Fifa? With no Call of Duty, no Battlefield, no Madden?

Gamers would just simply buy the system where those are on. They wouldn't think twice about it either.

This shit is bleak

the point is it's a bluff. And if this is true and Durango doesn't have it and PS4 does, it just means Sony called their bluff. And it's the right move.

There isn't a big publisher dumb enough in the world to not go where most of the money is. ESPECIALLY next-gen where budgets will be bigger. You can't invest that much time and money into a big game and sell it on one console. I mean you can, but then you'd simply look like a fool. It's in their best interest to sell on all consoles with large bases to make the most money possible.

The thought that they'll all together decide to ignore the PS4 and it will die is pretty ridiculous.

 

[funkystudent]

Sony has been thinking about it but if they currently dont tie games to a account they will eventually.

Ether the news the next xbox does it will show them its the right idea or they will do it later with when ever single major publisher is ether releasing exclusive content for the xbox or just straight up not releasing games on the ps4 and blaming used games as the reason.

Its not some crazy feature that they have cat just do down the road so its way to early to say they wont.

 

[TheOddOne]

Remember that leaked roadmap for durango in the coming years?

There's some truth in this rumors, i think...all leading to a cloud-gaming-microsoft-future, if you ask me.

Yeah, so bizarre that they conveniently left that out there.

 

[cool_dude_2049]

Couldn't care less about second-hand stores. But I do care about lending and borrowing games I cannot play. I'd like to move my console around and take it somewhere where I could play offline.

In that regard, the always online thing does hurt.

 

[evanmisha]

I'm looking into whether Teksavvy is the better alternative, because as it stands, I barely take advantage of my PS Plus subscription because all the games are often 10GB or more.

Switched to TekSavvy and never looked back. My heart genuinely aches, with people in this and the last thread talking about their bandwith caps. 20 gb? I couldn't even deal.

 

[jedimike]

GAFs lack of critical thinking skills never fails to amaze... IF Microsoft was to implement this feature exactly as stated by Edge, Sony would become the next Nintendo... Meaning the only reason to buy a PS4 would be to play Sony 1st party games. Publishers would overwhelmingly choose MS because they are against the 2nd hand market.

The most likely scenario is a platform wide implementation of what publishers are already doing. You can resell your games to Gamestop but the "full" game can only be unlocked by purchasing an unlock code.

The used game + code will still be cheaper for you then new retail but the publisher will get a portion (the code) of the used game sale.

This is a win-win-win model. Gamestop can still sell used game (albeit at lower margins), publishers dont get screwed by 2nd hand market, and gamers still get physical discs.

Some of you already thought this through but it is amazing how many gaf members jump off the deep end.

 

[Bgamer90]

You'll get blasted for this post, but I feel you. Some of the same people lamenting the death of third party after third party are the same crying over measures that would help these same companies stay in business.

That is a good point.

A good number that criticize the Wii U for not having good 3rd party support are the same ones that don't like this possible news of the Xbox blocking used game sales to get the support of 3rd party companies.

 

[alphaNoid]

No not at all as they seams mostly positive. Where as this is a rather negative story for the consumer. Say someone reads the headline from a republished site that says "New Xbox won't play used games" and from there decides to avoid it and focus on Orbsis news. That's surely playing totally into the hands of Sony either way and you would have thought that Microsoft would be quick to quash any rumors for fear of damage to their marketing strategy which has to be planned out by now.

Do you not recall the rumors just months ago that Sony was doing the same thing and even filed for a patent on how they were going to do it?

 

[Ding-Ding]

Why not, it's a quid pro quo. MS leak the info to Edge on the basis that Edge get a world exclusive later on. MS get their message out and are able to seem like the good guy when the real info is out because expectations are so poor, Edge get to sell a shit ton of magazines when they have "Next Issue - World Exclusive Next Xbox Hands On".

Stuff like this happens in politics all the time, it's called preparing the ground. When our bank has to release bad news we do it as well so when the actual bad news comes it doesn't seem so bad.

So what are you saying exactly.

Edge willing to risk their reputation for an exclusive?

MS who are renown to hate bad publicity, starts flinging mud at themselves before they even announce their product?

Sorry but this is extremely unlikely.

 

[hatmoza]

What if Microsoft purposefully leaked these rumors to gauge public reception before making an official decision?

The "Trial Balloon" is quite common in media and reporting. The real leaker asks to be anonymous and releases the info to see public reactions. If the source is pleased they officially announce whatever it is they were testing. If public reaction is bad, the information lives on as a rumor forever.

So your "what if" question really isn't impossible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_balloon

 

[DopeyFish]

Anyone who thinks this type of thing will foster more innovation in games needs to think again. If I can't sell a game then the only one I am buying at full price is going to be the multiplayer staples like Halo or Call of Duty. Something I am going to play for years.

But you will buy other games at a lower price? THIS IS THE POINT OF IT ALL

That's how you revitalize the innovation by making all games profitable over long term

 

[Version 3.0]

I dunno, this just sounds so crazy. EDGE's reputation is really on the line here.

Not necessarily. They can always claim the negative backlash to their reveal changed Microsoft's plan.

 

[Mononoke]

I still think that, we should consider the impact this will have on GameStop beyond just trading in games. What I mean is, I think most of us hate GameStop (or have a gripe with them). But we have to also realize that, GameStop is a HUGE distributor of new games in the market. That their pre-order system, is actually very beneficial for the industry, as it basically is a hype machine. GameStop has an investment in getting people to pre-order, since it guarantees they will make more money. And it also builds up a customer base for the product prior to launch. Everyone wins.

Imagine if GameStop went completely belly up over this - and suddenly, there is this massive gap in retail chains that have the stock to sell new games. I guess this stock would just be pushed to places like Wal Mart, Target, and Best Buy. But I look at places like Best Buy, and see them going under eventually too.

I dunno, maybe this is just the beginning of all things going digital.

 

[Uiki]

Yeah, so bizarre that the conveniently left that out there.

That's what I feared the most, it's all becoming true =/

 

[FordGTGuy]

Is there a solution to this that would end with both the Publishers and Consumers in a good spot?

 

[PhatSaqs]

GAFs lack of critical thinking skills never fails to amaze... IF Microsoft was to implement this feature exactly as stated by Edge, Sony would become the next Nintendo... Meaning the only reason to buy a PS4 would be to play Sony 1st party games. Publishers would overwhelmingly choose MS because they are against the 2nd hand market.

The most likely scenario is a platform wide implementation of what publishers are already doing. You can resell your games to Gamestop but the "full" game can only be unlocked by purchasing an unlock code.

The used game + code will still be cheaper for you then new retail but the publisher will get a portion (the code) of the used game sale.

This is a win-win-win model. Gamestop can still sell used game (albeit at lower margins), publishers dont get screwed by 2nd hand market, and gamers still get physical discs.

Some of you already thought this through but it is amazing how many gaf members jump off the deep end.

Good shit.

 

[Dr Dogg]

Do you not recall the rumors just months ago that Sony was doing the same thing and even filed for a patent on how they were going to do it?

Yeah but that was gofreak finding the patent and relaying the information. This is a gaming news outlet reporting on what a source has told them and has seen far wider coverage.

 

[Mononoke]

Considering most of those quotes were selective and ignored that they were replies in multiple different conditions....

I'm going hard because I've seen this done before and somehow me questioning the credibility of EDGE makes me part of the Microsoft PR Team?

I've in no way defended Microsoft in either going for or not going for the actions involved in the rumor. In fact I've said multiple times, including the first EDGE thread, that I believe neither Microsoft nor Sony will go in this direction.

Now if we can end the discussion about me as this thread isn't about me or who I lean towards.

BTW, If you're going to critique me(or call me out) in the future send me a PM don't derail a thread for it.

I understand why you are doing what you are doing.

But what is your actual take on this - if true. Are you okay with it? Do you like/dislike it? Or do you refuse to comment on anything that is not confirmed.

I said this in another thread, but I actually like the idea of people reacting to this. Just because, if it ends up being true, I would rather the negative press get built up high early on. But then again, I don't like this move. So yeah.

 

[Vol5]

I'll wager MS will offer a rebuttal or comment before the weekend

 

[Can Crusher]

the point is it's a bluff. And if this is true and Durango doesn't have it and PS4 does, it just means Sony called their bluff. And it's the right move.

There isn't a big publisher dumb enough in the world to not go where most of the money is. ESPECIALLY next-gen where budgets will be bigger. You can't invest that much time and money into a big game and sell it on one console. I mean you can, but then you'd simply look like a fool. It's in their best interest to sell on all consoles with large bases to make the most money possible.

The thought that they'll all together decide to ignore the PS4 and it will die is pretty ridiculous.

If they do it, it's not a bluff. The math is simple, PS4 doesn't exist and doesn't come with install base included.

These systems have to sell, if Publishers only release their games on one console the other will stop selling and the one with the games will eat up all the sales. This wouldn't happen from night to day, but the console with terrible 3rd party support would see its sales slashed by two thirds in a matter of months.

 

[Version 3.0]

But you will buy other games at a lower price? THIS IS THE POINT OF IT ALL

That's how you revitalize the innovation by making all games profitable over long term

If you really think that's the case, then I would suggest you're going about it the wrong way. Just lower the prices. The used game market will dry up and die, and there would be no impact on consumer rights, no complicated systems, no service required to be online for games to function.

But unfortunately, low prices are not the goal here.

 

[Baconsammy]

If Microsoft does it and Sony doesn't, I expect to see some huge(HUGE) exclusive deals signed with Microsoft at the start of next gen. You don't do something like this alone without a lot of support.

 

[Into]

*IF* this turns out to be true, then this will mean that PS4 will become more enticing for GameStop and every other brick and mortar store to push that console (and the Wii U) over the 720. That is just pure logic and no further explanation would be needed to whether they would do this

But what it also could mean is that the 720 would become more enticing for publishers, if they feel like they are losing X amount of money through used games sales then... yea the 720 suddenly looks much more enticing than the other consoles.

If this is true i am sure Microsoft is aware that they will most likely lose market share, but i am sure they are aware of this and perhaps this means that they would rather have a smaller instal base of 30-50 million users who are all connected to Xbox Live at all times, than having 80-100 million users, where X amount are not online, and used games are not just hurting their partners but also MS themselves.

It is hard to imagine Sony doing this, because the second hand market in Japan is massive, Jack Tretton outright denied it just six months ago where he could have easily dodged the question with a "No comment" if this was their plan.

Again i am simply trying to play the devils advocate here, in a attempt to understand their reasoning. Microsoft is full of smart people and i am sure they have all sorts of data on who goes online, average age, what games they like, when do they buy games, why do they buy games, how much $$$ is lost through used game sales etc. All of this data has been likely presented millions of times in a tidy little animated PowerPoint to Ballmer and friends.

They likely know this will further set them back in Japan, but i do not think they are concerned about that. Not like they can do any worse in Japan.

I am not arguing for any of this, it is fun to speculate and at least try to view things from a different perspective. But make no mistake, if they are doing this, they likely have good reasons (to them) for trying it.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Couldn't justify a game console that would actively prevent me from borrowing games, much less buying used ones.

 

[jwhit28]

I won't be owning a new Xbox. Games I can't see myself reselling like Fire Emblem a few days ago I don't mind paying for digitally but whole libraries, no. Especially if I can get the 3rd party experience from PS4 or cheaper through PC sales.

Maybe Gamestop and Bestbuy will decide to let them in on used game sales. If not I hope people make a big enough stank about it to change Microsoft's minds.

 

[Servbot24]

Bottom line is this all feel like the leaks are very controlled. Like it feels all too convenient leading up to the Feb event.

Maybe I’m reading too much into this.

This close to the new consoles, every bit of news is going to be close to some kind of event.

 

[Mxrz]

ignoring a console with as big a base as PS4 will likely have is a huge loss of potential revenue. More than you would get from one console with no used game sales. By far.

I just love the thought of both EA and Activision trying to ignore an untapped market day after day in order to honor some corporate brotherhood pact. That's grounds for a dark comedy spoof.

Anyway. I very much doubt this has anything to do with third parties for either Microsoft or Sony. The benefits just aren't there. Third party has no real leverage. Activision isn't going to go make its own platform, despite Kotick's ramblings.