-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Elden Ring’s open world is actually kind of dead and boring
- Thread starter GooseMan69
- Start date
Mephisto40
Member
In TOTK the open world it basically it's main selling point
In Elden Ring, it's main selling point is the boss battles and lore, which are superior to anything in a zelda game
So I'm not sure it's really comparable tbh
In Elden Ring, it's main selling point is the boss battles and lore, which are superior to anything in a zelda game
So I'm not sure it's really comparable tbh
Team Andromeda
Member
Spot on mate
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
This is what developers are saying about TOTK
Ex Naughty Dog developer dammmmmmnnnnn hahaha
It might have something to do with the other gameplay mechanics being basic as hell and general technology being two gens behind.
HazukiSensei
Banned
Oh yes OP, FROM software being touted as the top dev in the game, is a slap in the face to gaming as a whole. Why? Because it tells me how little many gamers care for outside of combat.
It shows me your average gamer only understands a video game, And considers "gameplay" to be something where they are constantly in combat. After shenmues, red deads, half life's, witcher 3's we spit in the face of those games when we act like FROM scratches the itches those games did. Sometimes we act as if FROM exceeded them. They didn't. Not in all aspects.
I never will experience the beautiful unique quests that I did in the witcher 3 in a FROM game. Witcher had quests that only had to do with characters and you didnt evem touch a sword. As does rdr2 and modern GTA, morrowind, oblivion, shenmue etc
To me, thats hardcore gaming. When you can calm the fuck down for two seconds and listen to characters, soak it in, be in the world, be in the story, and still know to level up all your gear and fight well.
Theres a reason souls games are popular among streamers, and bro's. Because its an "always fighting something" type of game. Dude bros have a waaaay harder time listening to a character talk lol
But I notice a trend. BoTw in my opinion takes something away from the old school zelda magic. Zelda relied on its pacing and heroes journey ark to sell it in the past. Now its...similar to elden ring in a way. "Player agency"
It shows me your average gamer only understands a video game, And considers "gameplay" to be something where they are constantly in combat. After shenmues, red deads, half life's, witcher 3's we spit in the face of those games when we act like FROM scratches the itches those games did. Sometimes we act as if FROM exceeded them. They didn't. Not in all aspects.
I never will experience the beautiful unique quests that I did in the witcher 3 in a FROM game. Witcher had quests that only had to do with characters and you didnt evem touch a sword. As does rdr2 and modern GTA, morrowind, oblivion, shenmue etc
To me, thats hardcore gaming. When you can calm the fuck down for two seconds and listen to characters, soak it in, be in the world, be in the story, and still know to level up all your gear and fight well.
Theres a reason souls games are popular among streamers, and bro's. Because its an "always fighting something" type of game. Dude bros have a waaaay harder time listening to a character talk lol
But I notice a trend. BoTw in my opinion takes something away from the old school zelda magic. Zelda relied on its pacing and heroes journey ark to sell it in the past. Now its...similar to elden ring in a way. "Player agency"
intheinbetween
Member
ER’s world is designed to be as it is, it never aimed to be a living colorful world in which you can do a lot of quests from NPCs, actually very few NPCs are alive, and most of them simply die, FS games are usually based on apocalyptic almost dead worlds.
I have the feeling this thread will be supported by totk and Demon”s Souls (PS) fanboys, so well
I have the feeling this thread will be supported by totk and Demon”s Souls (PS) fanboys, so well
HazukiSensei
Banned
And people saying that thats "the pinnacle" kinda hurts the medium as a whole in my opinion.
You're just fighting all day. Nothing else really.
Last edited:
Fess
Member
Lol yeah, Nintendo somehow manage to make it work by just giving you a tool box and say ”Here you go mate have fun
”. Other devs are still doing specific climbing spots and main character can’t go past a bit of rubble or the whole game would collapse. I’ve played so many games like that lately that I honestly stumble over my own thoughts thinking things are trickier than they actually are in TOTK, then I keep getting wowed when I realize how straight forward and obvious everything is.
Icymanipulator
Member
Like most open worlds, after enough time the “romance period” fades away.
That said, the first time through Elden Ring was pretty magical, almost surreal at times, and I’m not even the biggest fan of the game.
That said, the first time through Elden Ring was pretty magical, almost surreal at times, and I’m not even the biggest fan of the game.
HazukiSensei
Banned
Ehhh that "dead world" argument seems like an excuse not to do much with the world.
I have yet to see from make a game where enemies arent just wondering back and forth waiting to fight you. I'd like to see if FROM can make quests like morrowind, witcher 3, rdr2 etc
Creative stuff that isnt just fighting.
Im not even sure from is capable of giving a quest along the lines of bloody baron. Are they? Havent seen it. Just fighting all day like im a dude bro.
Its okay if they cant, but just dont act like they are pushing the medium forward. I dont want more devs thinking mouths not moving is okay.
Last edited:
ChoosableOne
ChoosableAll
Yeah, you can't go to karaoke, such a shame.
Tomeru
Member
Yo this thread has some really hard takes about u derstanding things which shows how little something is what it is. And with such confidence.
Ironic.
I'm not trying to intentionally diss, but facts should be checked every now and then.
While ER is my least favorite souls, its open world design is extremely smart. There is that one picture that illustrate it pretty good. Can't find it now cause Im at work (maybe someone knows what I'm talking about and can find it, if not, I'll try to get it laters).
Ironic.
I'm not trying to intentionally diss, but facts should be checked every now and then.
While ER is my least favorite souls, its open world design is extremely smart. There is that one picture that illustrate it pretty good. Can't find it now cause Im at work (maybe someone knows what I'm talking about and can find it, if not, I'll try to get it laters).
HazukiSensei
Banned
Ehh yes and no, its an open world rpg correct? Thats what it is. Im tired of souls games getting a pass as some other "thing", when its a fucking rpg. An open world one. We've played those before. Souls isnt some new thing. You fight shit, you level up, you grind, you loot. Like a fucking open world rpg.
So lets compare it to others of its own genre. Games that also have alot of combat and rpg. Morrowind, oblivion, the witcher 3, mass effect, cyberpunk and more of course.
So when you compare elden ring DIRECTLY to to those other open world rpg's. It does come off as having only one way of interacting with the world. It doesnt feel "living", and feels like a fight fest.
Compare that to the witcher 3 and...we have a problem. The witcher 3 you level up and grind and collect loot, fight monsters and bosses. And sure, you may like elden rings combat more, but thats all elden ring does. In the witcher 3, you dont know what to expect. You could end up fighting a tree thats sucking the life out of a forest, because he doesnt want to give it to the witches residing in it OR you're at a mask party negotiating with a succubus to pretend its killed itself. Whereas souls games...well whatever im doing i know its just another fight around the corner.
Thats not jusy filling the game with random content, thats being a COMPLETE fucking open world rpg. Not just an action game with no quests
Or maybe i was wrong about the community, all we wanna do is run around and fight. Fuck everything else
Last edited:
HerjansEagleFeeder
Gold Member
"I'm pissed someone called my favourite game bland and boring so I'm gonna start my own thread shitting on the game everybody else loves saying it is bland and boring, too"
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
Exactly. The only reward for exploration is more combat, or junk to use in combat. You make combat to win stuff to use to make more combat. Nothing is ever just curious to see you - as soon as something spots you, it’s a fight to the death. If an area looks empty, just take another step and a ”mini”boss will come from the sky or the underground. Shit’s tiring. The open world shouldn’t be used for this. In the more linear Souls games it’s normal to be on the edge at all times, but in ER I would have liked to be able to enjoy some places and vistas without having to slay a small army first.
HazukiSensei
Banned
This is what developers are saying about TOTK
Ex Naughty Dog developer dammmmmmnnnnn hahaha
They are acting like totk is 2003 when Valve revealed the source engine or something, when they first showed us the gravity gun. That was an impressive feat for the time. This... is not. Game has physics about as complex as a 2004 game valve did
Last edited:
Bernardougf
Member
Elden Ring and Breath of The wild are the most overratade games of all time ... this wandering free "discovery" fetishism to find shit people dont need and the same dungeon for the 50th time or the same enemy/boss with minimal tweaks for the 20th time is something Ill never understand.
Elden ring is the worst souls game for it ... by far....but it benefits for been the easier and much more accessible From game, and finally the mainstream was able to play a Souls game and they jizzed all over it because Miyazaki gameplay and world building is freacking awesome.
Witcher 3 was the best open world I have ever played... because of the story and characters... nothing to do with being Open world.
HazukiSensei
Banned
Well in my opinion the elden rings love and gamers forgetting about what other open world rpgs did better than elden or that elden doesnt even offer; tells me alot about what gamers want. I always thought that kid who skips the cutscenes and just wants to fight all day was a casual frat kid who doesnt really like games that much. Turns out its half the community who acts like that lol elden ring is perfect for them then.
Bernardougf
Member
I Agree.. but like any classical arcade game , is addictive as fuck
ALSO...thats why Sekiro is the best souls like game
HazukiSensei
Banned
The fact that witcher 3 isnt being brought up, in favor of games that are devoid of the thing witcher 3 did...tells me alot about where gaming is at. Casual as fuck. Thats what.
Theres a reasom why witcher 3 hasnt been copied...why? Because that shit is actually hard. You actually have to CARE. The dev would have to care about each little detail and quest, and come up with unique ideas for quests and hand write each one. And ambitious graphics and presentation.
Souls on the other hand, look how many devs think they can copy that. Alot. Why? Because its a formula. But 2023 gamers love formulas
Knightime_X
Member
It can be extremely addictive.
Bernardougf
Member
I agree with almost everything you said... but how many devs were able to copy Miyazaki formula ?? Of all trying?? NONE ! Elden Ring was made for the casuals and wandering lovers... souls game like bloodbourne, dark souls and sekiro ARE NOT ...
Last edited:
dreamstation
Member
You are dead and boring!
I loved the game to be honest. One of the greatest of all time for sure.
I loved the game to be honest. One of the greatest of all time for sure.
Elitro
Member
I understand your point of view and totally disagree, but it depends on what you want from the game.
Personally i enjoy the quiet, after almost dying on most fights it's always nice to walk around and calm myself down before the next fight.
The environment is also so incredible, that just walking around and getting immersed by the atmosphere feels way better to me than being bombarded with chatty npcs with unimaginative quests or having to look around for hidden things to collect in every corner of the map.
The world in ER just feels like a normal world, sometimes mundane, sometimes exciting but not overly stimulating in every inch of the map.
That being said, i love RPG's with cities brimming with life. Variety is the spice of life, and ER brings a unique formula which is very refreshing.
Personally i enjoy the quiet, after almost dying on most fights it's always nice to walk around and calm myself down before the next fight.
The environment is also so incredible, that just walking around and getting immersed by the atmosphere feels way better to me than being bombarded with chatty npcs with unimaginative quests or having to look around for hidden things to collect in every corner of the map.
The world in ER just feels like a normal world, sometimes mundane, sometimes exciting but not overly stimulating in every inch of the map.
That being said, i love RPG's with cities brimming with life. Variety is the spice of life, and ER brings a unique formula which is very refreshing.
Nico_D
Member
Lol yeah, Nintendo somehow manage to make it work by just giving you a tool box and say ”Here you go mate have fun
Other devs are still doing specific climbing spots and main character can’t go past a bit of rubble or the whole game would collapse. I’ve played so many games like that lately that I honestly stumble over my own thoughts thinking things are trickier than they actually are in TOTK, then I keep getting wowed when I realize how straight forward and obvious everything is.
Yeah, that is true. There have been times when I'm playing TOTK and there's an obstacle, I decide go over the obstacle, one way or another. And then I remember that if this was most of the other games, there's would be an invisible wall here or, like you said, a small rubble that the craracter can't climb over. Or a tree trunk you are unable to go over or under. In TOTK you can burn the trunk, you can shoot it away with a rocket part, you can chop it, you can attach wheels to it and see it roll away...
HazukiSensei
Banned
I think western devs will have a hard time successfully copying him. But east asian devs? Maybe not in terms of level design but in other areas they will succeed. Ni-oh was already successful. Just wait for platinum to do one lol
Bernardougf
Member
And Nioh is awesome and not a casual game either .... but thats a good exemple, not exactly the same formula but is a good example
Spaceman292
Banned
Didn't read it but you're fucking wrong
Drizzlehell
Banned
By your logic...
Doom fans: "all we wanna do is jump around and click on enemies"
GTA fans: "all we wanna do is punch in a cheat code and kill some people"
Gran Turismo fans: "haha car go brrrrr"
That's not how it works, bruv.
Ask yourself: why is this important?
You're comparing ER to all those other RPGs as if they should be exactly alike, but who said they should? That's not the kind of game ER tries to be, and there's nothing wrong with that. Sure, if you're going to dumb it down to "it's just fighting in a big open space" to make your point, then obviously it won't sound like there's a lot to it. But just because you can't see past the surface, it doesn't mean there's something wrong with the game.
What all those other RPGs that you mentioned have in common is that they make their various internal systems very obvious to the player, and they always hold your hand and provide tutorials for their gameplay features, ensuring you won't have to experiment and can just follow a beaten path instead. In Elden Ring, and every other Souls game for that matter, the only things immediately recognizable about the gameplay are melee combat, the fact that most things want to kill you, and the presence of a vast open world to explore. That's it. From there, you have to figure it out on your own, inevitably walking into various traps or making cool discoveries, like Ash Lake or the Anor Londo twist in Dark Souls, along with hidden bosses, quest lines, NPCs, and more across all Souls games. And guess what? THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN ONE OF THE BIGGEST DRAWS OF THIS SERIES. These games offer such a wealth of lore and hidden secrets that it can make your head spin. But you do have to work for all of it, and that's one of the things that make them such a feast to play.
If you've never played one of these games with your friends, discussed the various things you found in them, shared your discoveries among each other, or even sought tips from more experienced players on how to accomplish certain things, then chances are you won't immediately "get" the allure of games like Elden Ring. The game simply refuses to hold your hand beyond showing you the basic controls at the start. But just because you didn't take the time to examine it closer and instead viewed it as an "empty combat game," you approached it with the wrong attitude. If there's anything problematic about the game, it's certainly not any of the things you mentioned.
Honestly, this is exactly what I was trying to say when I made this thread:
I wish we had more games that put a little more faith in players' curiosity and ability to figure things out on their own.
Last edited:
Fools idol
Banned
I'm probably one of the most die hard Fromsoft stans and I have to say I agree. Elden ring in general is my least favourite game in the franchise. I enjoyed Dark Souls 2 more which is saying something.
For me open world just doesn't work for this kind of game. I found myself hating most of the game because of it. Fast traveling around as much as possible made it passable to complete once but not a chance in hell I will ever play through that slog again.
For me open world just doesn't work for this kind of game. I found myself hating most of the game because of it. Fast traveling around as much as possible made it passable to complete once but not a chance in hell I will ever play through that slog again.
kuncol02
Banned
That's because their open world is exactly same design philosophy stretched to whole world by sheer amount of money thrown into development.
Elog
Member
I think the OP goes a bit too far. However, personally I feel that the open world design of Elden Ring is a slight negative compared to other FromSoft games. For me it is a bloated Dark Souls. Still a good game but it did not push what From is doing in the same way as BB or Sekiro did.
BbMajor7th
Member
Elden Ring is pretty great the first time through, but the open world loses a lot of its appeal as soon as you begin to see the repeating format, after which it can start to feel artificial. It's certainly an interesting and valid take, but not my favourite example. Breath of the Wild did some amazing things with verticality and sandbox systems but lacked in too many other areas to really win me over. The overwhelming lack of caves, underwater exploration, or more built-up areas really hurt it in the end. Witcher 3 is still goat for me - there was more to discover than just mobs or loot, and the world really did feel lived in. Skyrim is still amazing too.
Last edited:
SeraphJan
Member
A key concept I think might benefit many people here is:Lol yeah, Nintendo somehow manage to make it work by just giving you a tool box and say ”Here you go mate have fun
"Sliding Scale of Gameplay and Story Integration"
The spectrum is something like this
Gameplay and story segregation <--------------------------------------------> Gameplay and story integration
The more story element you implement in a game, the more restriction you will have with the mechanic
·Minecraft there is literally no story or lore, so you also had least amount of restriction. It leans to the far end of the left of the spectrum
·BotW you have very minor cutscenes, but it still had lore, its more restrictive than Minecraft, but the mechanic is much more free compare to other game because it had no storytelling element to restrict its mechanic. It leans towards left of spectrum
·RDR2 it focus on both storytelling and mechanic , the mechanic has to be the more restrictive because that restriction serves the purpose of storytelling. If you would implement BotW physic into RDR2, not only you completely breaks the realism the game was trying to present, you also break the story sequence. It leans towards middle of the spectrum
·The Last of Us it heavily focus on storytelling with reasonable stealth and shooter mechanic. It leans towards right of the spectrum
·Telltales Games storytelling is its only focus, its mechanic is more close to a DVD menu, any other mechanic will complete break its core aesthetic. It leans towards the far end of right of the spectrum
The physic in BotW is not hard to make, its just that it interfere with many game's design philosophy, its not a limitation but a choice. RDR2 will lose its core audience if it went with BotW mechanic design.
Game mechanic provides incentive to play, Story provides meaning to that play, both element had been a staple since the beginning of video game. Its just that through technology advancement, we are no longer restricted to the text based storytelling which was the early 80s, now we could provide cinema level of Visual and Audio language into games instead of just texted dialogue, its an advancement and its not going away anytime soon.
For people who doesn't understand why storytelling is important in video game and how its different than reading book or watching movie, here is a keyword for you to research "LUDO (Ludology-Dramatology-Ontology)"
We will get the most out of video game if we start to appreciate diversity of game design.
Last edited:
Strider Highwind
Banned
Huge From Software fan for years, hell i e had this sekiro avatar forever lol.
Their games came to me during a time i felt games were too easy and I crave a challenge...In a time where so many AAA games felt like popcorn hollywood summer movies with little challenge the 'From games satisfied my appetite for something that tried to kick my ass, as opposed to shiny graphics and big set pieces that held my hand.
I say all that to say i go into their games looking for the combat challenge and I pretty much hate everything else about em(I've beat Dark Souls 1-3 over 5 times each and have no fucking clue what they are about lol). Blood borne and Sekiro were the only ones i actually thought had interesting characters...cause i like samurai/ninja stuff and blood borne was just so stylish.
I loved Elden Ring, but for the combat. Personally didn't give a shit about much else lol
Their games came to me during a time i felt games were too easy and I crave a challenge...In a time where so many AAA games felt like popcorn hollywood summer movies with little challenge the 'From games satisfied my appetite for something that tried to kick my ass, as opposed to shiny graphics and big set pieces that held my hand.
I say all that to say i go into their games looking for the combat challenge and I pretty much hate everything else about em(I've beat Dark Souls 1-3 over 5 times each and have no fucking clue what they are about lol). Blood borne and Sekiro were the only ones i actually thought had interesting characters...cause i like samurai/ninja stuff and blood borne was just so stylish.
I loved Elden Ring, but for the combat. Personally didn't give a shit about much else lol
GooseMan69
Member
You say I want a Diablo type game where you just kill shit to level up and gear up so you can kill more shit? That’s all you fucking do in Elden Rings open world! Except the loot kinda sucks most of the time. It’s just a super artsy version of it. And there’s nothing wrong with that. The Souls games are revered for their combat and boss fights, and ER obviously delivers that in spades. But there’s nothing special about its open world. It’s just okay.
Last edited:
GymWolf
Member
Botw felt as barren and dead as elden ring but not on purpose like the fromsoft game, a couple of cities with cardboards npcs barely doing anything didn't really changed the situation.
Having a good physics engine doesn't make the world feel any more alive tbh.
This is why ubisoft\rockstar formula is never gonna die, people love open world with cities, a lot of ncps doing stuff etc.
Putting botw and rdr2 in the same phrase made me chuckle, not gonna lie.
Having a good physics engine doesn't make the world feel any more alive tbh.
This is why ubisoft\rockstar formula is never gonna die, people love open world with cities, a lot of ncps doing stuff etc.
Putting botw and rdr2 in the same phrase made me chuckle, not gonna lie.
Last edited:
Success
Member
And this thread is done.
This comment single handedly dismantles OP's argument.
Better luck next time at a troll thread OP.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Sekiro was a departure of this. It actually had a cool story and characters that motivated me to keep playing.
Also Nioh absolutely destroys any fromsoftware game in the aspect which is the most important for an action game - combat.And Nioh is awesome and not a casual game either .... but thats a good exemple, not exactly the same formula but is a good example
Last edited:
Skull-Knight
Member
TW3
TES skyrim
Similar threads
- Locked