Eminem is the mosted liked person in the world.

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PhoenixDark said:
It's like you've never heard of Kool G Rap, Big Pun, early Jay-Z, Rakim, Biggie, Big L, Nas etc. Your argument makes no sense and makes you sound like someone with no rap knowledge
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And what would you say if someone had listened to all of those and still regarded Eminem's as the best?
 
LegoArmo said:
Encore is bad, but there's still 4-5 great songs if you include the bonus tracks. I think Relapse is really underrated and Recovery is a collection of songs, technically still good but a bit... I don't know, it just doesn't feel like a real quality piece of work. Like he didn't work too hard on it.
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i liked recovery way more than relapse, but it didn't have any cohesion as an album...maybe that's what bothered you?
i kept a few tracks off of encore, too. i think it's like people who hated predator...it wasn't that bad by me, but after death certificate, people (rightfully) had really high expectations.

Roland Garros said:
And what would you say if someone had listened to all of those and still regarded Eminem's as the best?
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listen again harder
it's your opinion but there's a ton of quality there, a tremendous amount of which Em notes influenced the shit out of him too...that list is fantastic
 
Roland Garros said:
And what would you say if someone had listened to all of those and still regarded Eminem's as the best?
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I have never met anyone that fits this description. Obviously they're entitled to their own opinion, but anybody who listens to the gamut of hip hop will realize one thing: technical ability is not objective. There is nobody who is the clear GOAT at everything. For example, Bizzy Bone may have incredibly fast, difficult polysyllable tongue twisting shit and sounds extremely complex but I'd put the slower G Rap over him because of his perfect breath control and flow.

The point PD is making is that there is no such thing as the clear technical goat. there are too many skills and styles associated with rapping to say something so silly. Korey is a stan, so he posts like one

Eminem is definitely laudable from a technical perspective though
 
Music overall is subjective, but the technical aspects are less so. Just as a discussion on the best singers can be quite technical, so is the discussion of the best rappers from a technical perspective.

No one is questioning Eminem's technical rapping; is flow is amazing and he has dope lines. The problem I have here is that the ONLY way to argue Eminem is the best rapper of all time is if you simply ignore or don't know anything about rappers who perfected the multi-syllable rhyming pattern.

Eminem's entire first album is almost a blatant take on Nas' style.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4qYox-Gb70

That's not to say Eminem "ripped off" Nas. After all, he didn't create the multi-syllable pattern, he re-did it for 90s rappers. Consider Kool G Rap who created that style in the 80s, and perfected it into the 90s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNGIahjziiE

Jay-Z was once quite a technical rapper
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuaGcm8yqzI

Here's the problem for Eminem: all the rappers mentioned have better albums than him. Technically they are better. You can argue on lyrics except for Nas, who is clearly better - and even Eminem wouldn't deny that. For all this bullshit about Eminem being new rapper's favorite rapper, NAS is actually your favorite rapper's favorite rapper nine times out of ten.

In terms of new rap: overall the multi-syllable style isn't used much. Rick Ross does it but most mainstream rappers don't, and it's mixed in the underground. Some modern examples

Elzhi (also from Detroit, and co-signed by Eminem)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OI8Y8X4YkE

Reks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF7AU12LMB0

Roc Marciano
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4Ec0HAgUSs

I'm not saying those rappers are better than Eminem mind you, just they have a similar rap pattern which unfortunately isn't used a whole lot today.

No one is taking anything away from Eminem. I'm merely arguing what he has argued before himself: he's not the best, nor is his style new or inventive. He doesn't match up with the greats in part because his albums don't.
 
Angry Fork said:
They're awful. I could explain why but I really don't feel like getting into it. In terms of structure, rhythm/flow, multi's, delivery etc. everything is completely different for the worse. His tracks are dreadful to listen to now. Trust me when I say I don't want to hate him, I was a huge fan, but I'm judging objectively. 2004-2007 he was one of the worst rappers on the planet mainstream-wise, now he seems to care a bit more but he's still bad and sometimes only tolerable.
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I feel the opposite as you. I've enjoyed where he has gone since he started. The direction suits him, and I think he has delivered in terms of all those aspects you just mentioned.

But then again, I'm not a huge rap fan. Most of it is dreadful. Em has always stood out above the crowd for me.
 
PD im so proud

tumblr_ly0a6wJJgu1qc4mw7.gif
 
PhoenixDark said:
Music overall is subjective, but the technical aspects are less so. Just as a discussion on the best singers can be quite technical, so is the discussion of the best rappers from a technical perspective.

No one is questioning Eminem's technical rapping; is flow is amazing and he has dope lines. The problem I have here is that the ONLY way to argue Eminem is the best rapper of all time is if you simply ignore or don't know anything about rappers who perfected the multi-syllable rhyming pattern.

Eminem's entire first album is almost a blatant take on Nas' style.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4qYox-Gb70

That's not to say Eminem "ripped off" Nas. After all, he didn't create the multi-syllable pattern, he re-did it for 90s rappers. Consider Kool G Rap who created that style in the 80s, and perfected it into the 90s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNGIahjziiE

Jay-Z was once quite a technical rapper
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuaGcm8yqzI

Here's the problem for Eminem: all the rappers mentioned have better albums than him. Technically they are better. You can argue on lyrics except for Nas, who is clearly better - and even Eminem wouldn't deny that. For all this bullshit about Eminem being new rapper's favorite rapper, NAS is actually your favorite rapper's favorite rapper nine times out of ten.

In terms of new rap: overall the multi-syllable style isn't used much. Rick Ross does it but most mainstream rappers don't, and it's mixed in the underground. Some modern examples

Elzhi (also from Detroit, and co-signed by Eminem)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OI8Y8X4YkE

Reks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF7AU12LMB0

Roc Marciano
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4Ec0HAgUSs

I'm not saying those rappers are better than Eminem mind you, just they have a similar rap pattern which unfortunately isn't used a whole lot today.

No one is taking anything away from Eminem. I'm merely arguing what he has argued before himself: he's not the best, nor is his style new or inventive. He doesn't match up with the greats in part because his albums don't.
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You were going well, then died in the arse with the last paragraph. No great albums? Subjective.
 
why bump this mess

he didn't say Em didnt have great albums though, just that his albums don't match up with those he listed.

again, that was the point - speaking on an MC being the greatest takes their whole discography into account. trust me, i wish it didn't - i'd love to say Wu & Tribe had a catalog on par with The Roots, but despite them being my personal favorites, they don't.

ps

BrLvgThrChmstry said:
Hahaha...HAH. At some point it probably was, that crap genre is nothing short of bad joke (A really, really bad one) nowadays... or since the early 2000s. Also, good for Em. One of the few rap artist I still sort of respect.
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this cranky old post made kentpaul look brilliant in comparison
 
Roland Garros said:
You were going well, then died in the arse with the last paragraph. No great albums? Subjective.
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He didn' say no great albums. He said he has no albums on the same level of "the greats". And even though I love Slim Shady LP, I agree. None of his albums can touch albums like Illmatic or Ready to Die.
 
HigherLevel said:
this thread will be full of nothing but hate and anger.
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That's kind of why Eminem sold so well.

Not insulting, I was a huge Eminem fan back when I was 13. One summer my parents were out so I toked for like 7 hours straight and I blasted The Eminem Show like 300 times on repeat until my brother actually came and broke the cd screaming "TIME TO CLEAN OUT YOUR CLOSET, MARSHALL ASSHOLERS."


My brother was a jerk. :(
 
You have to give eminem his due. When i heard real slim shady the first time on radio it was a like a breath of fresh air. I was at school at the time and we never heard something like that before.

the last great album was eminem show. After that he nose dived but those first three albums were legendary. And when you add in D12 and devil's night in the mix, it was truly the golden era for the detroit gang
 
Grim1ock said:
You have to give eminem his due. When i heard real slim shady the first time on radio it was a like a breath of fresh air. I was at school at the time and we never heard something like that before.
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I can see that.. it was a fresh sound he brought.

It was the opposite in for me... just because I was already a teenager who was into rap. And that meant I was kind of a hater... Saying I didn't believe in a white rapper sounds incredibly racist now, but that was the common dogma of the time (white rapper in our minds = vanilla ice).

But his successor albums really brought me around. Loved him all through the rest of his career (maybe not Relapse) and Recovery was this amazing turn around that really got into my head... Respect.
 
Eminem has always been one of my faves, I dnt listen to him much anymore but he has my respect forever. In terms of technical rappers I'd definitely put Nas, talib, elzhi, and Andre 3000 over him in terms of my personal favs off the top of my head.
 
Technically, Canibus surpasses Eminem. Also Pun

Bit a huge fan of Em, he has solid albums, but some people feel his exclusion from GOAT lists is based on his race. When in reality his constant inclusion is about his race
 
I'd say Eminem>Canibus. Canibus certainly has some amazing songs and is a great technical rapper, but lyrically it's often hard to take him seriously.
 
PhoenixDark said:
I'd say Eminem>Canibus. Canibus certainly has some amazing songs and is a great technical rapper, but lyrically it's often hard to take him seriously.
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Also, Em has put out some mediocre albums recently, but Canibus has become a really unfunny joke. That whole J.Cole diss and immediate apology was just sad.
 
oh thank god rapgenius broke that down for me

Recon said:
Also, Em has put out some mediocre albums recently, but Canibus has become a really unfunny joke. That whole J.Cole diss and immediate apology was just sad.
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damn, glad i missed this - the dizaster thing was a historical low.
 
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