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Esquire: The State of The American Dog

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From the August 2014 issue of Esquire magazine. The full article is longer and does a great job encompassing a lot of different facets of this topic, so I would suggest reading the whole thing if you have any interest. I think it's one of the best pieces i've read on the subject so far.



This is a story about an American dog: my dog, Dexter. And because Dexter is a pit bull, this is also a story about the American dog, because pit bulls have changed the way Americans think about dogs in general. Reviled, pit bulls have become representative. There is no other dog that figures as often in the national narrative—no other dog as vilified on the evening news, no other dog as defended on television programs, no other dog as mythologized by both its enemies and its advocates, no other dog as discriminated against, no other dog as wantonly bred, no other dog as frequently abused, no other dog as promiscuously abandoned, no other dog as likely to end up in an animal shelter, no other dog as likely to be rescued, no other dog as likely to be killed. In a way, the pit bull has become the only American dog, because it is the only American dog that has become an American metaphor—and the only American dog that people bother to name. When a cocker spaniel bites, it does so as a member of its species; it is never anything but a dog. When a pit bull bites, it does so as a member of its breed. A pit bull is never anything but a pit bull.

There are two ironies here: The first is, as pit-bull advocates like to point out, "the pit bull is not a breed; it's a classification." Even the municipalities that have banned it acknowledge as much in the language of their laws, which is a language of approximation. Denver, for instance, stipulates that a pit bull "is defined as any dog that is an American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, or any dog displaying the majority of physical traits of any one (1) or more of the above breeds, or any dog exhibiting those distinguishing characteristics which substantially conform to the standards established by the American Kennel Club or United Kennel Club for any of the above breeds." Yet Luis Salgado, the animal-services investigator charged with enforcing the pit-bull ban in Miami, admits that "there is no reliable DNA testing for that breed. DNA is useless. If you look at where that breed came from, there's American bulldog, there's terrier—all watered down and mixed together to produce the dog we now call the pit bull." What Salgado uses to establish a dog's genetic identity is not genetics but rather "physical characteristics—we have a forty-seven-point checklist. Any dog that substantially conforms to the characteristics of a pit bull is considered a pit bull."

You know one when you see one, in other words—and so the second irony proceeds from the first: You see a lot of them. The pit bull is not a breed but a conglomeration of traits, and those traits are reshaping what we think of as the American dog, which is to say the American mutt. A few generations ago, the typical mutt was a rangy dog with a long snout and pricked ears—a shepherd mix. Now it looks like a pit bull. This is not simply because so many pit-bull owners oppose spaying and neutering their dogs and their dogs are bred so frequently and haphazardly; nor is it simply because so many of the traits associated with pit bulls have proven common. It's because the very definition of a pit bull is so elastic and encompassing. As Salgado says, "It doesn't have to be purebred to be considered a pit bull." A German shepherd crossed with a pit bull is a pit bull. A cocker spaniel crossed with a pit bull is a pit bull. "We had a beautiful dog in here not long ago that was a pit-Weimaraner mix," says Lieutenant Cheryl Shepard, who runs the animal shelter in Cobb County, Georgia, where I live. "But we try not to call dogs pit mixes, because then nobody will adopt them. So we called it a Weimaraner mix. And it looked like a Weimaraner. It had a lot of the traits of a Weimaraner. We found a woman to adopt it. But she took it to her vet and he said, 'No, that's a pit bull.' She returned it the next day."

Thirty years after it first attained notoriety as an accessory to the inner-city drug trade, the pit bull has become commonplace in the United States. No one knows exactly how many there are, especially if pit-bull mixes are included in the estimate, for despite going unregistered and uncounted, the pit bull has achieved near omnipresence in big cities and even a certain hard-won popularity in the suburbs. But at the same time, it has become less a type of dog than a strain of dog that still makes many Americans deeply uncomfortable. The demographic shifts that are transforming America's human population find a mirror in the demographic shifts that are transforming America's canine one, with the same effect: More and more we become what we somehow can't abide. We might accept pit bulls personally, but America still doesn't accept them institutionally, where it counts; indeed, apartment complexes and insurance companies are arrayed in force against them. And so are we: For although we adopt them by the thousands, we abandon them by the millions. The ever-expanding population of dogs considered pit bulls feeds an ever-expanding population of dogs condemned as pit bulls, and we resolve this rising demographic pressure in the way to which we've become accustomed: in secret, and in staggering numbers. We have always counted on our dogs to tell us who we are. But what pit bulls tell us is that who we think we are is increasingly at odds with what we've turned out to be.


Now, any dog that comes as a rescue comes with its own apocrypha. Nobody knows his past, so a past is ascribed to him. But when we met Carson, his past as a "bait dog"—a nonfighting dog whom fighting dogs gnaw on as a prelude to combat—was inscribed on his body. He had broken teeth. He had filigrees of scarring around his eyes. He had broad hairless patches of scarring around his neck that revealed his pale porcine skin. He had a ten-inch burn down his back that people often mistook for raised hackles. And yet he managed to strike a comic figure instead of a tragic one—that was his glimmer. He had one ear up and one ear down, protuberant green eyes, a panting grin that wrinkled his cheeks, and an air of insistence and optimism that was never anything less than ridiculous given his circumstances. He climbed onto my wife's lap on a day that happened to be my wife's birthday, and we thought he was giving himself to her as a special gift; we didn't know until later that climbing onto the laps of perfect strangers was his move: his survival mechanism and perhaps his con. Whatever it was, it worked. We took him home that day and promptly freaked out.

Well, my wife did. Her friends did. We were in the process of adopting our daughter, and they told her that she was putting everything at risk. You got what? A pit bull? A fighting dog? Have you lost your mind? We contemplated giving Carson back until we took him for a walk one day and a school bus emptied out in front of us. We tried to stop the children from accosting him—"We don't know him!"—but they were all over him, and there he stood in the middle of them, with his grin and his glimmer. We wound up taking him to a canine behaviorist at the University of Georgia, who spent four hours with him and said, "He's a great dog" while assuring us that he was a dog before he was a pit bull.

And that is the heart of the matter when you own a pit bull. The language of institutional animosity toward your dog—the language of breed bans and insurance restrictions—takes great pains to declare that your dog is not like other dogs but rather something less and at the same time something more: something Other. And I have to admit there was something different about Carson. For reasons that must be hardwired to our own species, dog owners everywhere ask the same question of their dogs: "Are you a good boy?" But when you have a dog as brutalized as Carson had been, a dog as indelibly marked by blood ritual, the question acquires an existential urgency. You really want to know, and what distinguished Carson from any other dog I've owned was how he answered. We had him for eleven years, and in that time he demonstrated that the goodness of certain creatures has to be innate, since his was definitely not instilled by humans. If he triumphed over his own supposed nature, he also triumphed over ours, and as such he had the sheen of miracle about him—there was just no accounting for him, even when he died. He was old and he was arthritic, and we thought he had kidney disease when in fact he had a tumor comprised of blood vessels seated deep in his abdomen. It ruptured one night last September, and as he was bleeding out internally at 2:30 in the morning, he managed to jump into our bed to spend his last hours with us. I still don't know how he did it.


When we had Carson, we tried to change our homeowner's policy. My wife called up an underwriter for a quote, and he began to assess what kind of risk we presented. Eventually, he asked if we had a dog. "Yes," my wife said. What kind? "A mixed-breed terrier," my wife said. He asked how much he weighed. "Fifty-five pounds," she said. He then proceeded to ask about his coat, his coloring, the width of his head, and the shape of his tail—he then proceeded, in other words, to profile him, using the same kind of checklist that Investigator Salgado uses in Miami.

I was outraged—not because they were profiling us but rather because they were profiling Carson. He had never hurt anybody or anything; he was who he was because he wouldn't fight. Several times he had been attacked while I walked him—by a chocolate Lab, by a big old hound dog, and by a pack of dogs led by an overwhelmed walker. He was a good dog, and we were responsible dog owners who obeyed leash laws. Why were we paying the price for pit-bull owners—dog owners—who didn't?

I am aware that my argument has been made before: for Second Amendment rights and gun ownership. There is a reason for this besides the frequent comparison of pit bulls to AK-47's and the like. More and more, the arguments we have in our society boil down to the same argument, with members of an aggrieved group asking to be considered as individuals and members of society at large insisting on judging them as a group—with the exception deemed the rule. When pit bulls are criminalized, will only criminals have pit bulls? Not exactly. But in 2013, Farmers Insurance decided to limit liability coverage for American Staffordshire terriers, rottweilers, and wolf mixes in the state of California. The company said that those three breeds figured in more than 25 percent of its dog-bite claims and "caused more harm when they attack than any other breed." That left about 75 percent of dog-bite claims unaccounted for by breed—but then, even if dalmatians top bite statistics, most insurance companies don't decline to cover dalmatians.


In 2013, Cobb County took in ten thousand animals, domestic and wild. Five thousand of them were dogs. By conservative estimates, between a quarter and a third of the dogs were pit bulls or pit-bull mixes. But pits and pit mixes accounted for at least three quarters of the shelter population, and a preponderance of the dogs who were unrescued, unadopted, and unclaimed. Last year, the Cobb shelter took in 1,351 dogs identified as pit bulls. It had to euthanize 876 of them—more than 2 a day, 15 a week, 70 a month, in a place run by an animal-control officer sympathetic to their cause.

The numbers can be extrapolated to the rest of the country, and they are unconscionable. America is two countries now—the country of its narrative and the country of its numbers, with the latter sitting in judgment of the former. In the stories we tell ourselves, we are nearly always too good: too soft on criminals, too easy on terrorists, too lenient with immigrants, too kind to animals. In the stories told by our numbers, we imprison, we drone, we deport, and we euthanize with an easy conscience and an avenging zeal. We have become schizophrenic in that way, and pit bulls hold up the same mirror as the 2.2 million souls in our prisons and jails and the more than 350,000 people we deport every year. Every year, American shelters have to kill about 1.2 million dogs. But both pro- and anti-pit-bull organizations estimate that of these, anywhere from 800,000 to nearly 1 million are pit bulls. We kill anywhere from 2,000 to 3,000 pit bulls a day. They are rising simultaneously in popularity and disposability, becoming something truly American, a popular dog forever poised on the brink of extermination. There is endless argument over the reliability of bite statistics and breed identification and over the question of whether aggression in dogs is associated with specific genes or environmental triggers common to all dogs: that is, whether pit bulls who bite do so because they are pit bulls or because they are more likely to be intact male dogs at the end of a chain. But even if you concede the worst of the statistics—even if you concede the authority of a fourteen-year-old CDC report that implicated pit bulls and rottweilers in a majority of fatal dog attacks—one thing is certain about pit bulls in America: They are more sinned against than sinning.


In the space of four months, our dog had put two dogs in the hospital. There was human error both times: The cocker spaniel's owner made the mistake of letting him get outside; my wife made the mistake of letting Dexter meet another dog without keeping him under her control. Indeed, when I talked to trainers and behaviorists, they told me that when Dexter went up those stairs, he went into a situation in which some kind of fight was almost inevitable … that he probably thought he was protecting my daughter … that any time a sixty-pound dog goes after a fifteen-pound dog, the fifteen-pound dog is going to get hurt … that anybody who tries to break up a dogfight is going to get bit … and that there is not necessarily a correlation between aggression toward dogs and aggression toward humans. But human error wasn't what concerned me. What concerned me was the loss of our margin of error with Dexter. What concerned me was the question of whether Dexter did what he did as a dog or as a pit bull.

And so I called a professor of comparative genomics from the College of Veterinary Medicine at Western University of Health Sciences named Kris Irizarry. "You look at a pit bull's DNA," he said, "and the only thing you can really tell is that it's a dog. That's why the tests don't work. There's no boundary between what genes may or may not be in the breed, and that's why it's not a breed. It's just a general dog and there's no way to predict its behavior from its appearance. I'm not saying it's not biology that caused your dog to attack another dog. It's biology. But it's dog biology rather than pit-bull biology. And so I'm respectfully asking you: However your dog acts, keep it to your dog. Don't extrapolate and think that all pit bulls do this. Or that all dogs from shelters do this. Or that all short-haired dogs do this. Look at your dog as an individual. That's the challenge."

And then I called Jason Flatt, who lives in Dallas, Georgia, and runs a rescue organization called Friends to the Forlorn. He has a hundred pit bulls on his property. He has pit bulls that have attacked other dogs, pit bulls that have killed other dogs in fighting rings, pit bulls that have bitten people, pit bulls that have bitten him. He has last-chance dogs, dogs deemed dangerous, and a large paw print tattooed on his face as a sign that he will never give up on them, no matter what. And when I told him about Dexter, he said, "Just because a dog doesn't like other dogs doesn't make him a bad dog. But that's the downside to these dogs. A lot of advocates for the breed get mad at me for saying that. But not everybody should have a dog, and not everybody should have a pit bull. I get a lot of dogs out of shelters, and each time I do I expect four things: that he's going to have an upper respiratory infection; that he's going to be heartworm positive; that he's going to have worms; and that he's going to be dog aggressive. If he's not, great. But if he is, well, that's not the point. The point is that we've decided these dogs are expendable. The point is that so many of them are owned by assholes. The point is that people buy and sell them for bags of weed. There are so many out there—I get fifteen hundred e-mails a day from people asking me to take their dogs. And if I took a thousand today, there would be another thousand tomorrow. And they don't deserve that. So you have to take total responsibility for your dog. You have to make sure you don't set him up to fail. You have to save his life, man. Because he'll save yours."
 

hom3land

Member
Halfway through the article. Moved down south and volunteered at spca. Was my first time with pittbulls and they were the nicest dogs. If my Shiba Inu didn't attack other dogs I'd get one in a heartbeat. It's sickening that so many are killed each year. Even worse when we still using gas chambers in places to do it.
 
The pit bull "problem" really bugs me and I haven't been a dog owner in years. It's so unfair that a single type of dog has been singled out for being overly aggressive when it's mostly people not training or taking care their dogs correctly in the first place.
 
it's not necessarily that pitbulls are any less aggressive than other breeds (fucking chihuahuas), it's that their wide snout and jaw/neck strength is extremely damaging for a dog their size.

I've seen nasty german sheperd bites. I've seen bad labrador bites. Nothing compared to the sights i've seen a wide snout dog bite do.

even the author in the story opens up with the struggle of trying to break up his dog from the other dog's neck.

there is also a small racial aspect to it. Pitbulls are generally associated with the thug or gangster culture and some of the pitbull backlash can be attributed to that.

but, and i'm not condoning the racial bias, the absolute miasma of ignorance that surrounds the pitbull culture is sometimes disgusting. I'm talking about idiots keeping 20+ dogs chained with makeshift ropes in broken down backyards for fights or just rolling around with thick chains in a show of toughness. it hasn't helped the breeds image. specially here in miami.

I always will say that it's ultimately up to the owners, but that breed is one i will ALWAYS say that people should get a license for, because some of the shit i've seen makes me livid and adamant to the fact that some people just shouldn't be allowed to have.
 
Read this the other day. It's a really interesting look at what the "pit" breed actually is along with the psychology of people who adopt "rescue" dogs.

The bit with the owner jumping in when his dog was attacked out of fear his dog getting put down for defending itself. It's a sad state when you have to always be on guard and wary of your dog being a normal dog just because it has characteristis of a "breed" some people have decided is scary.
 

Dead Man

Member
it's not necessarily that pitbulls are any less aggressive than other breeds (fucking chihuahuas), it's that their wide snout and jaw/neck strength is extremely damaging for a dog their size.

I've seen nasty german sheperd bites. I've seen bad labrador bites. Nothing compared to the sights i've seen a wide snout dog bite do.

even the author in the story opens up with the struggle of trying to break up his dog from the other dog's neck.

there is also a small racial aspect to it. Pitbulls are generally associated with the thug or gangster culture and some of the pitbull backlash can be attributed to that.

but, and i'm not condoning the racial bias, the absolute miasma of ignorance that surrounds the pitbull culture is sometimes disgusting. I'm talking about idiots keeping 20+ dogs chained with makeshift ropes in broken down backyards for fights or just rolling around with thick chains in a show of toughness. it hasn't helped the breeds image. specially here in miami.

I always will say that it's ultimately up to the owners, but that breed is one i will ALWAYS say that people should get a license for, because some of the shit i've seen makes me livid and adamant to the fact that some people just shouldn't be allowed to have.
But not other wide mouthed breeds?
 
But not other wide mouthed breeds?

well just wide jaw breeds in general but those aren't as common in the US. (if we are talking about big in size)

Let's just say that all pitbull agencies and organizations recommend all pitbull owners own one of these for a reason:

stick.jpg
 

Leunam

Member
Those excerpts were a good read, and I intend to read the full article later. I've been on the side of pit bulls in arguments here on GAF and it's difficult trying to get people to see past the stigma that this type of dog has. Despite the article, I know people are going to remain unconvinced.
 

Dead Man

Member
well just wide jaw breeds in general but those aren't as common in the US. (if we are talking about big in size)

Let's just say that all pitbull agencies and organizations recommend all pitbull owners own one of these for a reason:

stick.jpg

Lets just say breed specific legislation is stupid and doesn't work and go on to things that do.
 
The pit bull "problem" really bugs me and I haven't been a dog owner in years. It's so unfair that a single type of dog has been singled out for being overly aggressive when it's mostly people not training or taking care their dogs correctly in the first place.

Agreed but it can't be ignored that a poorly trained chihuahua isn't capable of the same damage. Pits are pure muscle and have terrifying bites.
 

Aurongel

Member
Those excerpts were a good read, and I intend to read the full article later. I've been on the side of pit bulls in arguments here on GAF and it's difficult trying to get people to see past the stigma that this type of dog has. Despite the article, I know people are going to remain unconvinced.
Consider me one of those who is currently unconvinced but open to debate. I'd like to stand on the side of reason and say that the owner/upbringing of these dogs is the biggest contributor to their aggression yet literally 90% of dog mauling videos I've seen online feature pitbulls from a variety of different backgrounds. I don't want to take the easy way out of this argument and make blanket statements based on my purely anecdotal evidence but I refuse to believe that there isn't a grain of truth in there somewhere.
 
Lets just say breed specific legislation is stupid and doesn't work and go on to things that do.

i'm not gonna quote studies or statistics because honestly both sides of the argument have tainted the internet's few seldom sources, and even the CDC's own internal research into dog bites, which has pitbulls as the most common in human deaths in last 20 years, still only relied on flawed methods using newspaper sources.

don't think of me trying to be combative, but what do you suggest that should be done that doesn't involve breed specific legislation?

i honestly think it does help in a morbid sense. at least it's breed specific legislation with an expiration date. scrutiny for having those breeds often means nobody but the most dedicated owners will carry the breed. Sure the whole reason the bad image came from the macho status symbol and some bad seeds might slip through the cracks, but those who would have the breed would understand the needed care to care for such a powerful breed.

and it's apparent. Anyone with a pit living in an area where that breed brings legal issues, will often go beyond the call of duty and do the proper things through negative motivation. the dogs will be vaccinated, will be registered, and will be brought up in a way to promote a positive image. it's happening right now, pits' images has softened a tad from enthusiasts fighting for them.

Again, i am NOT saying the breed is inherently violent. I am, however, aware that the breed and often the dominant mix breeds have tremendous physical traits that regular owners might not be ready to deal with in the event of an altercation. and if legislation is necessary to keep that breed out of a random nobody who just wants to look tough with a pack of dogs he can't handle, then i'm going to support it even though i love all types of dogs.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
I don't really understand what I'm supposed to take away from this article. It doesn't bring forward much in the way of statistical evidence, and the anecdotes kind of make the author out to be despicable in his attempts to excuse his dog's behavior and dance around the need to put his pit bull down.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
It's amazing that through this entire story the author didn't make the connection that he was blaming the off-leash dogs that were hospitalized by his dog were also just being dogs. Main thing I see with all pit owners is they don't acknowledge that the other dog/person isn't supposed to fucking die when they get bitten. That's not supposed to happen!

I know pits are just dogs and I love them like anybody else. But c'mooooon. They're dangerous as FUCK.
 
well just wide jaw breeds in general but those aren't as common in the US. (if we are talking about big in size)

Let's just say that all pitbull agencies and organizations recommend all pitbull owners own one of these for a reason:

stick.jpg
What am I looking at here?

/cat owner
 

royalan

Member
It's sad. The one time I've been attacked by a dog it was by a pit bull...but all the domestic encounters I've had with pit bulls have been nothing but pleasant. Pit bulls can be the goofiest, most adorable dogs with the right training. A lot of people don't understand that their aggression aligns with their territorial instincts. Understand that, and it's easy to train a pit bull and/or avoid getting attacked by one.

I feel the same about rottweilers, which have a similar reputation in the US. Rots are my favorite breed. I can't wait to own one. Have never known a more lovable dog breed. But, again, they can be territorial.
 

Rookje

Member
Had a friend who's son was bit by a pitbull at a birthday party. It was so bad he needed emergency plastic surgery, and the scar is pretty bad. Gorgeous kid too (mother is a model). The dog owners were shocked (the dog came from a friend who was a breeder) but put the dog down.
 

Casimir

Unconfirmed Member
It's amazing that through this entire story the author didn't make the connection that he was blaming the off-leash dogs that were hospitalized by his dog were also just being dogs. Main thing I see with all pit owners is they don't acknowledge that the other dog/person isn't supposed to fucking die when they get bitten. That's not supposed to happen!

I know pits are just dogs and I love them like anybody else. But c'mooooon. They're dangerous as FUCK.

...a fifteen pound dog is going to die in a fight with a dog four times it's size because strength is directly related to mass. Its the same reason squirrels/raccoons die after one or two shakes when they are caught by large dogs like German Shepherds/Golden Retrievers. The larger dogs are no more vicious than the smaller one. "It isn't supposed to happen" is an arbitrary rule that humans expect of other adult humans because we are generally able to differentiate between when someone wants to throw a few punches or is actively trying to impart serious injury/death. Dogs have the intelligence of 2-3 year olds. They have a much less nuanced understanding of why they are being attacked.

As to the off leash dog in the intro, the only responsible party was the moron who didn't properly leash their dog, probably because "fluffy is sooo cute and sooo small he/she would never attack another dog". This happens a lot with smaller/medium sized dogs and their owners. Nor did the owner train their dog to act properly around other dogs; again, the owner being irresponsible. She even knew her dog had a problem but didn't take precautions to prevent altercations.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
...a fifteen pound dog is going to die in a fight with a dog four times it's size because strength is directly related to mass. Its the same reason squirrels/raccoons die after one or two shakes when they are caught by large dogs like German Shepherds/Golden Retrievers. The larger dogs are no more vicious than the smaller one. "It isn't supposed to happen" is an arbitrary rule that humans expect of other adult humans because we are generally able to differentiate between when someone wants to throw a few punches or is actively trying to impart serious injury/death. Dogs have the intelligence of 2-3 year olds. They have a much less nuanced understanding of why they are being attacked.

As to the off leash dog in the intro, the only responsible party was the moron who didn't properly leash their dog, probably because "fluffy is sooo cute and sooo small he/she would never attack another dog". This happens a lot with smaller/medium sized dogs and their owners. Nor did the owner train their dog to act properly around other dogs again, the owner being irresponsible.

All of what you say is probably true AND YET little dogs aren't killing children and/or other dogs. That's the problem here. Nobody is bitching about Mini Schnauzers -- also very highly territorial terriers -- because Schnauzers don't rip little kids' arms off. Get out of here with this nonsense.

I'll say it again: Pits are just like any other dog. Cute, playful, wonderful creatures that just want to be loved. And dangerous as FUCK. They're loaded weapons waiting for someone to pull the trigger. You gonna blame a parent that lost her child because someone ELSE left a loaded glock laying around on bad parenting? I love all dogs but c'mon bro. Blaming the other dog owners is insane.
 

Vilam

Maxis Redwood
Why is it that every time a pit bull maims someone the owner is always shocked and talks about how "they were always the sweetest dog imaginable!" Get a clue... these dogs shouldn't be in our society.
 
Problem I always see is people have to buy a dog as an extension of their "man hood", like, "I need the biggest baddest dog!"

All my buddies have Pit Bulls, Bull Mastiffs, Rottweilers,etc... I have an Australian Shepard and a Border Collie..

All dogs offer the same companionship and if home and personal protection is what your after then almost every dog is gonna bark to alert you of something and any dog over 50 or 60 lbs is still gonna bite the hell out of someone if they get angry.

Give me a herding type dog over some brute any day. They have natural instinct to protect, are known to be considerably smarter.
 
It's getting to be that all wide snout breeds can get a bad reaction out of people. People were pretty nervous when we moved in here with our young bullmastiff, though over the course of the year that has admittedly changed a lot

I don't blame people, though. He could do some damage if he decided he had a reason, so we are very careful to ensure he never has one
 

potam

Banned
I remember one of the first times I took my dog to the park. Passing some dude with a little yappy-type dog. He asks something to the effect of "Is your dog safe for my dog to sniff?" I'm like, yeah dude, sure.

His fucking yappy dog snapped at Yoshi.

I'm not saying my dog is without any faults of his own, but I'm aware of what can get him to act more aggressively (he really doesn't like big dogs for some reason), so I'm able to control him when we're at the park. I don't know where I'm going with this.
 
Read this the other day. It's a really interesting look at what the "pit" breed actually is along with the psychology of people who adopt "rescue" dogs.

The bit with the owner jumping in when his dog was attacked out of fear his dog getting put down for defending itself. It's a sad state when you have to always be on guard and wary of your dog being a normal dog just because it has characteristis of a "breed" some people have decided is scary.

Yeah, I have to deal with this whenever I take my dog anywhere. She's very friendly and pretty much wants to greet and play with most humans and dogs she sees while we're out, but I always have to think about whether those people think she's a monster or not. It's rare to find people like that though, most people seem alright with her. I'm also paranoid about the people who think all dogs who look similar to her should just be killed off. The constant worry that someone might want to shoot my dog or steal her or whatever. And I also really can't trust any type of day care or kennel service either. But it's worth it. I've had her for 6 years and she's been an amazing dog, and i'm pretty sure my next dog will be another american bulldog or something similar.
 
It makes me so sad to see the stigma attached to these dogs. I have a soft spot for pits and wide mouth dogs, because the best dog I ever had was a rott-pit mix. he was the most gentle and smart dog. The ONLY time he ever went after another animal was when an unleashed Dalmatian tried to attack me. He pinned the dalmatian, but wouldn't bite. He was such a great dog.
 
Blaming the other dog owners is insane.
So when the pit owner has their dog on a leash, is controlling their dog, and the dog of some shit owner who won't leash it comes up and starts shit, we're supposed to blame the pit when the little dog gets hurt?

Are you fucking serious?


My dog is big, 80lbs. She's a cane corso mastiff/great dane mix. When people meet her, I get the same question "you adopted a pit?". I am terrified she will get out some day (even though we never let her out unsupervised and have invisible fencing) and someone will just shoot her on sight.

PHDlhWq.jpg
 

pj

Banned
The article mentions how cute dogs are shipped from southern shelters up north because there's a shortage of non-pitbulls to adopt.

I am one of those people who lives in the north and rescued a cute mid-sized southern dog. I sometimes feel bad about not adopting a pitbull type dog from one of the many shelters in my city. It would have been a quicker process and cost 1/4 as much. Then I realize I'd hate to deal with the baggage of owning a pitbull. The uncertainty that it might hurt another dog or a person, people crossing the street to avoid me, nervous looks at the dog park, reduced housing options, etc. I don't need all that, I just want to have a dog.

I don't know why anyone would adopt a pitbull when there are so many dogs in need of homes that are less work. Why make things harder for yourself?
 
Read this article the other day and cried. It's extremely well written and a very nuanced piece. I appreciate that it didn't take a strong side, just explained why some things are the way they are.
 

huxley00

Member
Im generally somewhat afraid of any dog that is large and has a muscular build. There is the simple fact of what something that size can do to you in the wrong circumstances. I had a friend with an unfriendly malmut, that thing was terrifying. If pit bulls were smaller and not as strong, this wouldn't even be an issue.
 

daw840

Member
Im generally somewhat afraid of any dog that is large and has a muscular build. There is the simple fact of what something that size can do to you in the wrong circumstances. I had a friend with an unfriendly malmut, that thing was terrifying. If pit bulls were smaller and not as strong, this wouldn't even be an issue.
Having that kind of attitude also will self perpetuate. The dogs can sense that you're uncomfortable around them which will make them uncomfortable and they will begin to investigate and make you more afraid and so on and so forth. If you just present a strong attitude towards any dog you will have a much better time of things.
 

andycapps

Member
it's not necessarily that pitbulls are any less aggressive than other breeds (fucking chihuahuas), it's that their wide snout and jaw/neck strength is extremely damaging for a dog their size.

I've seen nasty german sheperd bites. I've seen bad labrador bites. Nothing compared to the sights i've seen a wide snout dog bite do.

even the author in the story opens up with the struggle of trying to break up his dog from the other dog's neck.

there is also a small racial aspect to it. Pitbulls are generally associated with the thug or gangster culture and some of the pitbull backlash can be attributed to that.

but, and i'm not condoning the racial bias, the absolute miasma of ignorance that surrounds the pitbull culture is sometimes disgusting. I'm talking about idiots keeping 20+ dogs chained with makeshift ropes in broken down backyards for fights or just rolling around with thick chains in a show of toughness. it hasn't helped the breeds image. specially here in miami.

I always will say that it's ultimately up to the owners, but that breed is one i will ALWAYS say that people should get a license for, because some of the shit i've seen makes me livid and adamant to the fact that some people just shouldn't be allowed to have.

My boxer has a wider snout than most "pits" and they statistically have stronger biting power than a "pit", yet my boxer is under no danger of being banned. There's no stigma associated with boxers. Pits have a bad rap and this article gets it. I wish this information could get into the heads of ignorant people writing off an entire breed along with a bunch of pitt mutts because of their own ignorance.
 
I agree that pit bulls and mixes can be unfairly maligned. The pit was historically the "nanny dog" and should probably be considered our national animal. Some of the friendliest dogs I've met have been pits. However...

I live a few houses down from a pit mix. He growls and barks from his back porch at any dogs passing by. He's gotten out a couple of times and he does not look like he's taking a leisurely stroll around the neighborhood. There used to be two in the house, but now it's just the one; I try not to let my imagination assume the worst. Another neighbor has two pits and I was on the playground with my daughter when one got out and it was clearly stalking a small dog on the playground before the owner's sons got it back in the house. A Facebook friend is always linking to positive pitbull pages, but when I visit her I am told not to look directly at her dog and he has even bitten me at a party; thankfully he was muzzled at the time.

So, yes, I can agree that it's too bad what has happened to the pit bull's reputation (or mix or similar-looking breeds), but anecdotally I'm not exposed to many positive examples.
 

huxley00

Member
Having that kind of attitude also will self perpetuate. The dogs can sense that you're uncomfortable around them which will make them uncomfortable and they will begin to investigate and make you more afraid and so on and so forth. If you just present a strong attitude towards any dog you will have a much better time of things.
Sounds strangely like victim blaming, how about no huge dogs that can kill someone easily? That sounds better to me.
 

huxley00

Member
That eliminates a lot of dogs. Some that most people would consider cute and cuddly, probably.

Yeah, 4 legged muscle machines that act on instinct and training only. I guess I'm just saying that I understand why people are afraid of them...and in quite a few cases, they probably should be.
 
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