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[Tak3n]

No surprise here, what did he honestly expect, these are elected officials in their own countries, they were never going to vote to fuck over their own citizens

David Cameron's hopes of getting a reform deal on Friday look in doubt as haggling continues at the EU summit.
Several EU nations are digging their heels in over plans to curb migrant benefits and change EU regulations.
The prime minster had planned to return to the UK to fire the starting gun on an EU referendum campaign on Friday.
The BBC understands one of Mr Cameron's closest cabinet allies Michael Gove will campaign for Britain to leave the EU when the referendum is called.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35609968

 

[Miles Quaritch]

The BBC understands one of Mr Cameron's closest cabinet allies Michael Gove will campaign for Britain to leave the EU when the referendum is called.

No surprise there. He's probably under orders from Cameron.

This is turning into one big clusterfuck. I still don't know why he relented and decided to have a referendum. Listening to the general public isn't always the right thing to do...

 

[Jezbollah]

No surprise there. He's probably under orders from Cameron.

This is turning into one big clusterfuck. I still don't know why he relented and decided to have a referendum. Listening to the general public isn't always the right thing to do...

Labour outright refused to have a referendum. The fact the Tories had it in their manifesto, giving the right for a choice, was a win for them in the last election.

 

[Kuros]

No surprise there. He's probably under orders from Cameron.

This is turning into one big clusterfuck. I still don't know why he relented and decided to have a referendum. Listening to the general public isn't always the right thing to do...

Because his Party would have ripped itself apart without one.

 

[Tak3n]

No surprise there. He's probably under orders from Cameron.

This is turning into one big clusterfuck. I still don't know why he relented and decided to have a referendum. Listening to the general public isn't always the right thing to do...

Because all the polls had them heading headlong into a coalition at the election, so he was offering the world, thinking he would give it up at the first negotiation in a coalition

 

[StuKen]

Such an amazing trainwreck. Cameron never wanted an exit but now he's backed himself into a corner after everyone else unsurprisingly tells him to get stuffed with the insane negotiating demands.

He comes back with nothing and still campaigns for staying in and his party will eat him alive. Campaign against it and the city doners will eat him alive.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

 

[Beefy]

No surprise there. He's probably under orders from Cameron.

This is turning into one big clusterfuck. I still don't know why he relented and decided to have a referendum. Listening to the general public isn't always the right thing to do...

When you mean general public do you count yourself? I agree there should be a referendum as I think people should be given the choice. I still don't know what side to vote myself though.

I still don't think Cameron wants a exit. But he has screwed himself by promising too much. This could be the end for him if the shit really hits the fan.

 

[Palette Swap]

I can't really muster any sympathy for that asshole, now that he's in the middle of a crisis he manufactured, just to keep campaign promises he made to stay in power with his merry band of monsters.

Enjoy the bacon, Dave.

 

[Xando]

Well it was nice having you guys in the EU. Maybe our scottish friends will stay and grant you guys asylum.

 

[Beefy]

Well it was nice having you guys in the EU. Maybe our scottish friends will stay and grant you guys asylum.

It's a UK wide thing so Scotland won't stay in. Unless they try to do the independent vote again. But with the oil crisis going on I can't see that happening.

 

[ClosingADoor]

What a damn mess. If they truly exit that will be a major event. At least they aren't a Euro nation and backing out of that. But they really need some extended transition period of years to prevent businesses going down the drain and people being hit by this.

 

[Tak3n]

Well it was nice having you guys in the EU. Maybe our scottish friends will stay and grant you guys asylum.

Scotland will be desperate for us to vote to leave (well some of them) as it gives Sturgeon and co a reason for another referendum

 

[Linkified]

No surprise there. He's probably under orders from Cameron.

This is turning into one big clusterfuck. I still don't know why he relented and decided to have a referendum. Listening to the general public isn't always the right thing to do...

It is when that is the key building block of true democracy.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Scotland will be desperate for us to vote to leave (well some of them) as it gives Sturgeon and co a reason for another referendum

Is Scotland mostly pro-EU compared to England?

 

[Chittagong]

I don't give a F either way as long as UK stays out of Euro and EU immigrant program. Being part of a single market is beneficial, but Norway / Iceland / Swiss aren't exactly slumming it either

 

[Chanser]

Is Scotland mostly pro-EU compared to England?

Yes.

 

[Xando]

It's a UK wide thing so Scotland won't stay in. Unless they try to do the independent vote again. But with the oil crisis going on I can't see that happening.

Yeah i know but i expect scotland to leave the UK when the UK leaves the EU.



It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds if they leave and the EU will inevitable try to fuck them over when negotiating a new trade deal to scare other countries from leaving.

 

[Lagamorph]

Is anyone even remotely surprised that it's Eastern European leaders who are against anything that would impact the benefits of EU migrants in the UK?

It's a UK wide thing so Scotland won't stay in. Unless they try to do the independent vote again. But with the oil crisis going on I can't see that happening.

Scotland will be desperate for us to vote to leave (well some of them) as it gives Sturgeon and co a reason for another referendum

If Scotland went independent they'd automatically be out of the EU anyway, and they'd have zero chance of ever getting in if Spain has anything to say about it.

 

[Beefy]

Yeah i know but i expect scotland to leave the UK when the UK leaves the EU.



It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds if they leave and the EU will inevitable try to fuck them over when negotiating a new trade deal to scare other countries from leaving.

If the oil stays as low as it is Scotland can not afford to go independent. It would make the country even poorer then it is now.

 

[2700]

Listening to the general public isn't always the right thing to do...

You should work in Brussels with that sort of attitude!

The EU isn't a benign influence on people's lives or society. What started as a free trade agreement is now much more than that. I think it's good that politicians are now having to make a serious case for why membership in the EU is genuinely beneficial to British citizens rather treating it as a tautology.

 

[aygomyownroad]

If Scotland becomes independent we lose our EU status. It was widely talked about at Indy ref that we wouldn't automatically gain membership so if we vote out of EU then independent or not we are still out of EU.

I think there is more people in Scotland who want out if EU than many think. Silent majority. Much like Indy ref may be surprising for final vote.

Either way Cameronis stuck between a rock and a hard place here

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

The in-work benefits reform is unfair. Although I see the point of it, in-work benefits aren't necessarily for the super poor, so we may be ostracising skilled workers (ie nurses) from coming over if they can't claim tax credits for their children. I understand the point is to dissuade unskilled workers from leaving a country with barely any benefits to coming to one with good ones, but I'm not sure how well that'd work in practise.

 

[StuKen]

I don't give a F either way as long as UK stays out of Euro and EU immigrant program. Being part of a single market is beneficial, but Norway / Iceland / Swiss aren't exactly slumming it either

With about 40% of uk overseas assets being held in the eu and an £8bn trade deficit enjoy that period of adjustment. I'm sure the blue blood tory toff rats will come scurrying back into the fold when they realise that their favorite 7 series bmw and Provence winter getaway become a whole more expensive after those pesky tariffs reappear.

 

[Tak3n]

Just picked this up

French President Francois Hollande has told French radio that he will "do what is needed to keep the United Kingdom in Europe" but "not at any cost".

In an interview with French radio he said that many countries still did not accept Britain's demands on welfare restrictions. He added that Britain could not have a "veto" on what happened in the eurozone, and that rules for financial markets had to be the same across the EU.

He said the other EU nations "must not give in to blackmail" but he said he genuinely believed Britain was seeking a deal that would allow it to remain part of the bloc. "This is Britain, through the voice of David Cameron, saying 'help me to stay in Europe'," he said.

 

[StuKen]

You should work in Brussels with that sort of attitude!

The EU isn't a benign influence on people's lives or society. What started as a free trade agreement is now much more than that. I think it's good that politicians are now having to make a serious case for why membership in the EU is genuinely beneficial to British citizens rather treating it as a tautology.

The EU has done a far better job protecting civil liberties, regulating corporate excess and tempering the absurd overreach of governments exactly like the one currently engaging in the doublethink required in reaping the benefits of a single market while decrying its very existence.

You country is a backwater, still obsessed with the status it gained as imperial power over a century and half ago. That power faded long before the EU formed and you have spent a generation selling natioal assets to the Germans you "beat" that you now need the EU far more than it needs you. The sooner the little englanders realise this better, for the sake of the rest of you.

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

Labour outright refused to have a referendum. The fact the Tories had it in their manifesto, giving the right for a choice, was a win for them in the last election.

If they didn't have it in their manifesto, it would've been interesting to see how many votes UKIP would've gained from them.

Cameron has had nearly everything go his way in his PM career, do this is quite refreshing. Dave won the election and the Scottish referendum with help from the Mainstream Media using the politics of fear, now those same papers are using it against him. Interesting times.

 

[Beefy]

The EU has done a far better job protecting civil liberties, regulating corporate excess and tempering the absurd overreach of governments exactly like the one currently engaging in the doublethink required in reaping the benefits of a single market while decrying its very existence.

You country is a backwater, still obsessed with the status it gained as imperial power over a century and half ago. That power faded long before the EU formed and you have spent a generation selling natioal assets to the Germans you "beat" that you now need the EU far more than it needs you. The sooner the little englanders realise this better, for the sake of the rest of you.

Condescending much. You do also realise it's the UK not just "little" Englanders.

 

[Lagamorph]

The EU regulating corporate excess and the absurd overreach of governments?
The EU is pretty much a picture definition of bloated excess and overreach of power.

 

[Beefy]

Reuters has seen the EU-UK accord, which sets the emergency brake on migrant benefits at seven years and is not extendable.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...exit-live.html

 

[Wrestlemania]

Condescending much. You do also realise it's the UK not just "little" Englanders.

Pretty sure he's referring to the people who are most vociferous about leaving the EU, who very much fit the stereotype of a little Englander in most cases.

 

[suedester]

Cameron will get his deal, the UK will vote to stay in and this tedious charade will soon be over.

The EU has done a far better job protecting civil liberties, regulating corporate excess and tempering the absurd overreach of governments exactly like the one currently engaging in the doublethink required in reaping the benefits of a single market while decrying its very existence.

You country is a backwater, still obsessed with the status it gained as imperial power over a century and half ago. That power faded long before the EU formed and you have spent a generation selling natioal assets to the Germans you "beat" that you now need the EU far more than it needs you. The sooner the little englanders realise this better, for the sake of the rest of you.

Holy shit, you've some serious issues.

 

[Beefy]

Pretty sure he's referring to the people who are most vociferous about leaving the EU, who very much fit the stereotype of a little Englander in most cases.

Still a bit over the top.

 

[Joni]

I hope Cameron can show the UK how much he cares about them by getting the much needed City protections.

 

[Lucreto]

I am all for cutting benefits to people coming into the country and living off the social welfare but cutting benefits to people actively working in the country is ridiculous.

I wonder if the reverse will happen and all UK workers abroad will also lose their benefits.

I really wish there are different referendums for Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England so we know who a truants to stay and who wants to go.

 

[Jumeira]

The in-work benefits reform is unfair. Although I see the point of it, in-work benefits aren't necessarily for the super poor, so we may be ostracising skilled workers (ie nurses) from coming over if they can't claim tax credits for their children. I understand the point is to dissuade unskilled workers from leaving a country with barely any benefits to coming to one with good ones, but I'm not sure how well that'd work in practise.

Were ostricising skilled workers from outside the EU that arnt here to claim additional support for thier families due to high numbers of immigration from East Europe. I think it's fair for Cameron to ask this, and im not surprised Eastern European nations are having hard time digesting this.

 

[Linkified]

Cameron will get his deal, the UK will vote to stay in and this tedious charade will soon be over.
.

And what if they vote to leave?

 

[Spaghetti]

It'd be interesting if we voted to leave if only to see the little Englanders realise leaving Europe really wasn't the be-all and end-all of every problem in the UK.

 

[Jackpot]

Condescending much. You do also realise it's the UK not just "little" Englanders.

He's not wrong. This whole UKIP segment is a holdover from people thinking we're too good for the likes of French of German people.

 

[suedester]

And what if they vote to leave?

I've no idea, it won't happen though. And Cameron just got his deal.

 

[Linkified]

I've no idea, it won't happen though. And Cameron just got his deal.

Why won't it happen? It could happen nothing out there to say it won't.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Were ostricising skilled workers from outside the EU that arnt here to claim additional support for thier families due to high numbers of immigration from East Europe. I think it's fair for Cameron to ask this, and im not surprised Eastern European nations are having hard time digesting this.

The NHS already hires from far poorer nations as our own workforce leave to any number of countries. Migration -inside and outside the EU- isn't just a race to the bottom. The NHS, specifically, needs to suck in talent from poorer nations, but if a medical student has a choice between an EU state with in-work benefits and one without, they are clearly going to pick the former.

Again, I see the point in what Cameron is asking for, and people in skilled labour are less likely to be rewarded benefits than those in menial positions, but this is far from a clear-cut positive for Britain -- there are still many things to discuss around this renegotiation, and rushing it may be just as bad for Britain as it is for any number of states within the EU.

If Britain is to remain within the EU, this debate has to be decisive, thought-out and long lasting. Britain can't keep renegotiating its position within the Union, so I'd rather a delay that gets things done right than I rushed resolution that is created to pander to the electorate and nothing more.

 

[Juicy Bob]

I'm scared guys.

 

[suedester]

Why won't it happen? It could happen nothing out there to say it won't.

People rarely vote for a change of such magnitude, the Scottish Independent vote is a great example. The stay in campaign will have the backing of all the major parties and Cameron's deal with sway enough of the undecideds. I reckon 60% plus will vote to maintain the status quo.

 

[tomtom94]

The fight between people who hate the EU and people who hate the EU slightly less continues.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Cameron is speaking now. Sounds like they've come to a deal.

 

[Beefy]

People rarely vote for a change of such magnitude, the Scottish Independent vote is a great example. The stay in campaign will have the backing of all the major parties and Cameron's deal with sway enough of the undecideds. I reckon 60% plus will vote to maintain the status quo.

I think it will be far closer.

 

[Beefy]

Cameron is speaking now. Sounds like they've come to a deal.

Reuters has seen the EU-UK accord, which sets the emergency brake on migrant benefits at seven years and is not extendable.

They have I posted it above.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

The EU has done a far better job protecting civil liberties, regulating corporate excess and tempering the absurd overreach of governments exactly like the one currently engaging in the doublethink required in reaping the benefits of a single market while decrying its very existence.

You country is a backwater, still obsessed with the status it gained as imperial power over a century and half ago. That power faded long before the EU formed and you have spent a generation selling natioal assets to the Germans you "beat" that you now need the EU far more than it needs you. The sooner the little englanders realise this better, for the sake of the rest of you.

The EU hardly has the look of longevity about it.

 

[ClosingADoor]

The EU hardly has the look of longevity about it.

After the Euro crisis, refugee crisis and now the UK threatening to leave we seriously need some years without drama for people to get behind it again. And stop expending the borders for a while until those Eastern European countries get more in line with the West in terms of economies.

 

[PJV3]

It will be interesting if we vote to stay, we can't carry on being all moody in the corner anymore.