-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Euro 2004
- Thread starter norinrad21
- Start date
- Status
Stevie Gerrard said:
Well, yeah...partly English media, at least from what I've heard, since I don't live in England and don't read much of the English papers and such. I've got the impression though, that English media is like a rabid dog waiting to bite at any time. Will they ever lower their expectations, I wonder?
But I feel England generally recieve praise before any big tournament, not just from English media, but from people and media in general. They're considered one of the best teams before tournaments, but never actually deliver. Maybe it's just me.
Czech Rep. is indeed a team to watch out for. Actually, I'm expecting Czech Rep. and The Netherlands to qualify for the next round, leaving Germany behind.
Anyway, Czech Rep. is becoming some sort of nightmare for the Dutch. They were in our Euro 2004 qualifying group, they're in our Euro 2004 group, and we meet again in the qualifying group for WC2006.
On England: Their defense doesn't seem very reliable, and they don't really have any big strikers that have played well this season. I fear for them, although they should be able to become 2nd in their group.
Anyway, Czech Rep. is becoming some sort of nightmare for the Dutch. They were in our Euro 2004 qualifying group, they're in our Euro 2004 group, and we meet again in the qualifying group for WC2006.
On England: Their defense doesn't seem very reliable, and they don't really have any big strikers that have played well this season. I fear for them, although they should be able to become 2nd in their group.
Chibbi Brady
Member
I'm gutted that Ireland didn't qualify, but on the bright side it'll make for a nice relaxing tournament. I get too wound up when we're invloved so I'll be able to enjoy all the games without any pressure.
Can't wait for it to start, hopefully it'll be as good as Euro 2000, there was some fantastic football played back then and it was certainly the best championship I can remember. The last world cup wasn't a patch on it.
Can't wait for it to start, hopefully it'll be as good as Euro 2000, there was some fantastic football played back then and it was certainly the best championship I can remember. The last world cup wasn't a patch on it.
MrPing1000
Member
Being from Northern Ireland we dont have any international games to look forward to. It only took us 13games to finally start scoring again. They shud just do what the Rugby does and convert the 2 Irish international teams into one. Ok there would be approximately 0 Northern Ireland players in the team, but at least I'd be able to support a team that isnt completely shit
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the Czech Republic knock Germany out (though seriously, with the Germans you never know -- everyone wrote them off before the World Cup too). They have a good team, but... again, it's not quite up to the standard of France/Italy/Spain/Holland/etc.
We're lucky with match timings here. I usually get off work at 11pm, then the first match is at midnight and the second at 2:45am -- perfect timing for me. I fully expect to watch every single match live, though that can't match watching 63 out of 64 games live during France 98 (including some dual-screen action when two matches were scheduled to kick off at the same time... incidentally, the Nigeria-Bulgaria match I missed was because of prom)
We're lucky with match timings here. I usually get off work at 11pm, then the first match is at midnight and the second at 2:45am -- perfect timing for me. I fully expect to watch every single match live, though that can't match watching 63 out of 64 games live during France 98 (including some dual-screen action when two matches were scheduled to kick off at the same time... incidentally, the Nigeria-Bulgaria match I missed was because of prom
)Chibbi Brady
Member
You can support us anyway, same island. I'm always supporting you guys whenever you play and we always get the matches down here on BBC NI. Delighted with the appointment of Sanchez and especially delighted to see big Gerry involved as well.
Like you said though, I doubt that anyone form the North would get in the squad and that wouldn't really be fair on the young guys coming through. Still, I think merging the two teams together should have been done a long time ago.
I fully expect myself to watch all the games as well. I did it for US 94 even though the times were bloody awful, I remember staying up to watch Korea - Bolivia. Worst match ever.
Like you said though, I doubt that anyone form the North would get in the squad and that wouldn't really be fair on the young guys coming through. Still, I think merging the two teams together should have been done a long time ago.
I fully expect myself to watch all the games as well. I did it for US 94 even though the times were bloody awful, I remember staying up to watch Korea - Bolivia. Worst match ever.
The official Euro 2004 website has a "predictor game" and "Fantasy Football". The latter is especially fun, you can pick your own team. Check the rules to see how points are given to your team.
STICKY PLEASE! AMERICA IS NOT THE WORLD!
Being 1/2 Scottish, 1/4 Northern Irish, and 1/4 Welsh, I've got no one to pull for. But considering I've been to and loved Amsterdam, I've got a slight Holland bias. Still, I'll likely end up supporting the underdogs and wishing bad luck on teams like France and England. GO LATVIA!
Does anyone know if TSN will be replaying the games at reasonable times? Like, afternoons and evenings?
Being 1/2 Scottish, 1/4 Northern Irish, and 1/4 Welsh, I've got no one to pull for. But considering I've been to and loved Amsterdam, I've got a slight Holland bias. Still, I'll likely end up supporting the underdogs and wishing bad luck on teams like France and England. GO LATVIA!
Does anyone know if TSN will be replaying the games at reasonable times? Like, afternoons and evenings?
They've got over 200 nations to rank. So a calculated system is necessary. Therefore you're going to get an imprecise and inconsistent top ten. I don't think it's possible to rank more reliably unless you simply count like 20 teams and have them ranked subjectively. But then with that you're subject to complaints of bias and manipulation.Falch said:
I can't believe Canada is #93. We're behind Turkmenistan for fucks sake. WHAT THE FUCK IS TURKMENISTAN
Dagless M.D.
Member
I just completed my fantasy football them on the Euro 2004 website.
Look out for 'the child murders' rocketing to the top of the table
Look out for 'the child murders' rocketing to the top of the table
Dagless M.D.
Member
I'm suprised at the amount of people who wished Ireland got through, didn't know the team had that many supporters
Dagless M.D.
Member
king zell said:
^^
they have what it takes to make it
I'm not too sure, they were very ropy against Ireland last week
Chibbi Brady
Member
Lucky bastard. Which games are you going to?
Chibbi Brady
Member
Nice choices. The quater final could be very tasty indeed. I'd probably say it's be Portugal v England but you never know. Croatia aren't bad at all, certainly capable of causing England some problems. They missed some sitters in the friendy between the 2 a while back, so you never know. Enjoy.
While I'm not from Ireland, my grandparents are, and living in the states, I'm a huge Ireland supporter. Broke my heart when they didn't beat Spain.... Excrutiating.
Euro 2004 thoughts:
I also would pick the Czechs as my dark horse. Nedved, for my money, is the best player in the world right now. Koller is a huge dude, and they have the speed and teamwork to take out just about anyone besides maybe France.
England doesn't have the balanced midfield that it is going to take to beat quality teams like France, Spain and Italy. They're a gritty bunch, but there's no cohesion there that I can see. If Owen is on fire, they could get to the quarters....maybe semis. James is untested. I'll be pulling for them in a way, but i'm a realist. I'll bet on them not getting out of the group.
Holland should be an impact team. Should be. Ruud is the man. Yeah, he's getting old, but you can't say he's not a fantastic player still. Seedorf is banged up I believe, and they might self-destruct. I'd bank on them getting out of that tough group, however.
If you're looking for a team to really self-destruct, my money is on Germany. Watch them run dry on goals and go out early.
It's going to be a good time, that's for sure. Much better than the boring Olympics.
I say Portugal takes it. Just a hunch.
Excrutiating. Euro 2004 thoughts:
I also would pick the Czechs as my dark horse. Nedved, for my money, is the best player in the world right now. Koller is a huge dude, and they have the speed and teamwork to take out just about anyone besides maybe France.
England doesn't have the balanced midfield that it is going to take to beat quality teams like France, Spain and Italy. They're a gritty bunch, but there's no cohesion there that I can see. If Owen is on fire, they could get to the quarters....maybe semis. James is untested. I'll be pulling for them in a way, but i'm a realist. I'll bet on them not getting out of the group.
Holland should be an impact team. Should be. Ruud is the man. Yeah, he's getting old, but you can't say he's not a fantastic player still. Seedorf is banged up I believe, and they might self-destruct. I'd bank on them getting out of that tough group, however.
If you're looking for a team to really self-destruct, my money is on Germany. Watch them run dry on goals and go out early.
It's going to be a good time, that's for sure. Much better than the boring Olympics.
I say Portugal takes it. Just a hunch.
College Dropout said:
He's not that old actually. Born on July 1st 1976. Same day as Patrick Kluivert. If you're talking about oldies, look at Van Hooijdonk and Bosvelt, both 34 years old.
Seedorf has an injury preventing him from playing the first match (vs Germany).Anyway, I'll be creating my fantasy football team later today. I'll also create the ugliest outfit of them all.
Btw, love your avatar.
I don't think Holland will make it past the first round, although I'm Belgian, so that might explain why I think that way (our countries are anctient football rivals and yes, I'm aware that Belgium didn't even make it into Euro 2004 ). They have great individual players but only a couple of times have they really shown that they remember how to play as a team. In most recent games I've seen Holland play, it was actually Sneijder who was the most dangerous man on the field, while Van Hooijdonck, Van Nistelrooy and Kluivert were just taking a bit of a walk in the park. Advocaat HAS to realize that Makaay is his best striker if he wants his team to go anywhere... Of course he also realizes Kluivert and Ruud won't appreciate being dropped out of the team.
Anyways, my personal favourite in the tournament remains Spain, they REALLY need to take another prize soon, because they've been 0wned by just about everyone lately. Put Raul and Morientes up front and support them with Valeron and Vicente and you have an attacking side worth fearing. Portugal has a brilliant team as wel with Deco, Costinha, C.Ronaldo, Figo, Carvalho, P. Fereirra (just got transfered to Chelsea) and of course Rui Costa and Pauleta.. Amazing amount of talent.
An outside favourite of mine would be Sweden, and I'm also looking forward to what the Czechs will be doing (Nedved and Koller DO rock, Koller played for my favourite Belgian team for a few seasons and I'm still a fan).
). They have great individual players but only a couple of times have they really shown that they remember how to play as a team. In most recent games I've seen Holland play, it was actually Sneijder who was the most dangerous man on the field, while Van Hooijdonck, Van Nistelrooy and Kluivert were just taking a bit of a walk in the park. Advocaat HAS to realize that Makaay is his best striker if he wants his team to go anywhere... Of course he also realizes Kluivert and Ruud won't appreciate being dropped out of the team. Anyways, my personal favourite in the tournament remains Spain, they REALLY need to take another prize soon, because they've been 0wned by just about everyone lately. Put Raul and Morientes up front and support them with Valeron and Vicente and you have an attacking side worth fearing. Portugal has a brilliant team as wel with Deco, Costinha, C.Ronaldo, Figo, Carvalho, P. Fereirra (just got transfered to Chelsea) and of course Rui Costa and Pauleta.. Amazing amount of talent.
An outside favourite of mine would be Sweden, and I'm also looking forward to what the Czechs will be doing (Nedved and Koller DO rock, Koller played for my favourite Belgian team for a few seasons and I'm still a fan
).Advocaat's problem is that he's got three top-class strikers there but they just don't fit together. He can't drop Kluivert, because he's Patrick freaking Kluivert. Again, it's like Inaki Saez's dilemma -- if he drops Raul and Spain lose, he will never hear the end of the "HOW CAN YOU DROP RAUL NO WONDER WE LOST" cries. And it's the same with Kluivert, like Raul his country's leading scorer OF ALL TIME and theoretically in his prime, but in actuality mired in a season-long slump. So he can't drop Kluivert. He also can't drop Van Nistelrooy, because unlike Kluivert he's been rather effective. But Kluivert and Van Nistelrooy just don't get along. And then there's Roy Makaay, who's a great player but probably not what the Dutch need -- a pure finisher like Van Nistelrooy. Still, don't get me wrong, I rate Makaay very highly and he'd walk into most other teams, but I can see why Advocaat just can't slot him in.
Look on the bright side though... Holland have a super-effective sub.
Look on the bright side though... Holland have a super-effective sub.
Fowler said:
I agree with you for the most part, but I'd actually argue they have more than three, as Hasselbaink hasn't even been given a chance. I somehow get the feeling that the combination "Hasselbaink-Makaay" would yield more goals than "Van Nistelrooy - Kluivert". But like you said : Advocaat just can't risk not selecting his theoretically best squad.. A lot may well depend on the attacking mid-fielder he chooses to deploy, because they're the ones who should be getting the balls to the strikers.
Zenden, for instance, seems like a very dubious choice to me, and Overmars is pretty darn old.. Van de Vaart has his ups and downs, Seedorf the same. The only constant I see is Sneijder, who's always dangerous and weighing on the opposite side's defense. I hope both he and Van Der Meyden (or Robben maybe) are included in the starting 11..
Also : Hollands defense just isn't very good anmore.
Davids is still excellent but still very likely to get yellow and red cards. Cocu IMO is well beyond his prime.. And then we have the true defenders : Stam, Reiziger, Heitinga and Van Bronckhorst. Heitinga is an excellent defender, but I'm not that convinced about Stam or Van Bronckhorst really.. Oh well, REALLY looking forward to the tournament, and I'm glad the GA has about football (well, the real football
) for once Sneijder is overrated. He has a good kick and can use both legs. He's too transparent, physical not tough enough and way too inexperienced. He played one good game and still rides on that wave of good hype. He is VERY fluctuating in terms of his overal performance on the pitch. No defensive qualities at all and ugly as sin to boot
Van der Vaart is overrated as well, he's had a REAL shitty season but someway or another loved by both the public and Advocaat. Yes, he's one of Europe's most upcoming talents but he should have been a great player bynow, not just a talent.
Van der Meyde has had a very unfortunate season and he is missing his form. He's just not ready. Robben is too prone to pick up another injury. Don't put him in the starting eleven when he's not ready to give the full 100% due to fear of getting injured again.
The yellow/red card thing about Davids is taken a bit out of porportion as well. He got a red card in a crucial game some time ago and will be reminded of that for the rest of his career probably. Yes, he's a tough son of a bitch but no more than let's say Makalele, Viera, Gattuso etc. And the team needs his mentality, whenever Davids is playing, his aura just unlocks something in the team. With him they will go the extra yard, they will go with the tackle instead of solving it with football. And Davids is needed to give the other midfielder (attacking minded midfielder) the space for errors when trying to fix something. With Davids in your back you know that if it fails he will pick it up. Just look at Ronaldhino and Xavi in Barça. They would not be able to play without knowing Davids is behind them.
Heitinga is way too light as well. Still has the tendency to solve problems by playing football when a tackle will take care of the problem much quicker and efficient. He's a great prospect but lacks experience. Plus, he's not a killer nor has the image of a player like Stam (one of the best defenders in the world!). But even with Stam, the Dutch' defense kinda sucks ass. So they should do the same what the side did in '74.
"The best defense is a good offense"
And they should do this with arguably the best player of the tournament (After ZiZou), Clarence Seedorf in the head of the offensive line. The "10" position!! (mark my words, when he gets the chance to play on the right position for him he will be the player of the tournament)
Van der Vaart is overrated as well, he's had a REAL shitty season but someway or another loved by both the public and Advocaat. Yes, he's one of Europe's most upcoming talents but he should have been a great player bynow, not just a talent.
Van der Meyde has had a very unfortunate season and he is missing his form. He's just not ready. Robben is too prone to pick up another injury. Don't put him in the starting eleven when he's not ready to give the full 100% due to fear of getting injured again.
The yellow/red card thing about Davids is taken a bit out of porportion as well. He got a red card in a crucial game some time ago and will be reminded of that for the rest of his career probably. Yes, he's a tough son of a bitch but no more than let's say Makalele, Viera, Gattuso etc. And the team needs his mentality, whenever Davids is playing, his aura just unlocks something in the team. With him they will go the extra yard, they will go with the tackle instead of solving it with football. And Davids is needed to give the other midfielder (attacking minded midfielder) the space for errors when trying to fix something. With Davids in your back you know that if it fails he will pick it up. Just look at Ronaldhino and Xavi in Barça. They would not be able to play without knowing Davids is behind them.
Heitinga is way too light as well. Still has the tendency to solve problems by playing football when a tackle will take care of the problem much quicker and efficient. He's a great prospect but lacks experience. Plus, he's not a killer nor has the image of a player like Stam (one of the best defenders in the world!). But even with Stam, the Dutch' defense kinda sucks ass. So they should do the same what the side did in '74.
"The best defense is a good offense"
And they should do this with arguably the best player of the tournament (After ZiZou), Clarence Seedorf in the head of the offensive line. The "10" position!! (mark my words, when he gets the chance to play on the right position for him he will be the player of the tournament)
Interesting comments all around about the Dutch team. Makaay is a great player, but he simply can't dethrone Ruud or Kluivert. Ruud is a goal scoring machine if he stays healthy. Kluivert is just a reputation, IMO, but whatever.
I think the same problem is happening in England right now. Everybody loved Rooney. They love his potential. And he's obviously the best player. But on the other hand, Heskey is a more logical pair for Owen. Problem is, everyone thinks he's shit, and he'll always be shit. I personally would have Rooney coming off the bench as a high-impact sub, especially since it's his first big showing on an international stage. But the English fans would probably have Sven's head.
(I love Rooney, btw, don't get me wrong)
I want to see if Ronaldo can lift Portugal to a higher level at Euro 2004. I'm still betting on them.
EDIT: STICKY! I wish i was still a mod here sometimes....
I think the same problem is happening in England right now. Everybody loved Rooney. They love his potential. And he's obviously the best player. But on the other hand, Heskey is a more logical pair for Owen. Problem is, everyone thinks he's shit, and he'll always be shit. I personally would have Rooney coming off the bench as a high-impact sub, especially since it's his first big showing on an international stage. But the English fans would probably have Sven's head.
(I love Rooney, btw, don't get me wrong)
I want to see if Ronaldo can lift Portugal to a higher level at Euro 2004. I'm still betting on them.
EDIT: STICKY! I wish i was still a mod here sometimes....
For people expecting Sweden to play boring and defensive should've seen the first half of the game against Poland a few days ago. It has been years since I've seen Sweden play with that kind of offense and attitude (too bad the 2nd half was ruined with lots of substitutions). In terms of offense, this is one of the best Swedish teams in years IMO. Actually, the only problem might be the defense, where we haven't seen the kind of stability that may be needed against the better teams. I think the potential is there, but the structure of the defensive line - who is going to play, and where - still got some work left.
But I prefer Sweden to be an outsider. Just like in the previous World Cup, where Sweden, against all odds, moved on from the "group of death". Few people believed they could actually do it. Watch out!
But I prefer Sweden to be an outsider. Just like in the previous World Cup, where Sweden, against all odds, moved on from the "group of death". Few people believed they could actually do it. Watch out!
Fowler said:
Kluivert really isn't popular in the Netherlands anymore, atleast not as popular as Van Nistelrooy. Advocaat will probably choose Van Nistelrooy as deep striker, perhaps with Van Der Vaart behind him, or Seedorf.
volt said:
Zenden is one of the few players who always works hard on the field, and I still think he's way better than Overmars. I'd put Robben on their position (left wing attacker) though, with Van Der Meyden on the right side.
I don't agree with what you said about the Dutch defense. Stam has had some lesser games lately, but he's still very good at just plain defending. Thing is, the defense needs someone who thinks too, so I'd put Cocu next to Stam as the central defending duo. Heitinga or Reiziger on the right (I prefer Heitinga), and on the left I'd put Van Bronckhorst, who has played some solid games lately on that position (though you can put Zenden in his place too, very versatile player).
I pretty much agree with what Hooker said concerning Sneijder and Van Der Vaart. Van Der Meyde and Robben though seem good enough to put into play, and I have faith in Heitinga.
Davids really is hit or miss. He's a real pittbull on the field, which can be either a good or a bad thing, depending on the match.
Btw: STICKY PLEASE!
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Socreges said:
You have just described the ranking system for college (American) football. The human polls, while flawed, are better than the computer polls for that sport.
The United States was a World Cup quarterfinalist in 2002 after dispatching Mexico 2-0 in the Round of 16. Only an insane performance by Oliver Kahn could stop us.
Hooker said:
I agree that's he's been doing a great job at FCB, supporting Xavi and Ronaldinho, and he does work best in a team that has every intention to move forward. The yellow card thing though, is not based solely on a couple of games, but kinda his entire career. I remember him being sent off more than a couple of time when he was still with Juve, as well as in the national team. Sure, Viera or Ballack are roughly the same type of player (Makelele though is much more elegant if you ask me), but somehow Davids always sticks out like a sore, brutal thumb in just about every match I've ever seen hm play.. Although I do agree that he should be in Hollands starting 11, he's the perfect symbol of Fighting Spirit !
Not sure about Heitinga , I guess the reason I like him is exactly the reason you prefer Stam : Heitinga is more of a skill-based defender, not just a guy who can tackle the ball out of an opponents feet.
Van Der Meyde has every reason to shine at Euro 2004, he's had a lousy season and probably wants to show his country and club coach that he is still a very talented player. Zenden isn't bad per sé, and yeah he's versatile and decent enough. But I do hope the younger players get a chance first at Euro 2004.
They took part in the confederations cup last year for winning the concacaf gold cup in 2002.Timbuktu said:
Despite most, players and managers included, believing the competition was a meaningless bunch of friendlies the games are given more weighting than World Cup or regional (such as Euro 2004) championship qualifiers. Additionally because weightings are lowered each year the confederations cup games of 2003 have about as much influence as a World Cup 2002 finals game on the rankings.
Turkey for example beat the US and drew with Brazil in the confederations tournament. Though far from competitive these results are of more importance than their loss and draw to England in the keenly contested Euro 2004 qualifiers for the FIFA rankings.
The entire list is ludicrous of course but that's Sepp Blatter and FIFA for you.
Well, I slightly revised my Dutch team:
-----------------Van Der Sar---------------------
---------------Stam--------Cocu-----------------
Heitinga---------------------------Van Brockhorst
-----------------------------------------------------
------Sneijder---------------------Seedorf------
-------------------Van Der Vaart-----------------
-----------------------------------------------------
Van Der Meyde-------------------Robben------
--------------Van Nistelrooy---------------------
First match Davids instead of Seedorf, and Zenden in stead of Van Der Vaart perhaps (and switching places with Davids).
Anyway, anyone here who knows what system the germans use, and what their team will probably look like?
-----------------Van Der Sar---------------------
---------------Stam--------Cocu-----------------
Heitinga---------------------------Van Brockhorst
-----------------------------------------------------
------Sneijder---------------------Seedorf------
-------------------Van Der Vaart-----------------
-----------------------------------------------------
Van Der Meyde-------------------Robben------
--------------Van Nistelrooy---------------------
First match Davids instead of Seedorf, and Zenden in stead of Van Der Vaart perhaps (and switching places with Davids).
Anyway, anyone here who knows what system the germans use, and what their team will probably look like?
I still think your deployment is a bit too offensive, Falch..
Having Van Der Vaart AND Seedorf AND Sneijder + Robben and Van Der Meyde will just make sure that the opponents can sit in front of their ow goal and make a swift counter when the whole Orange team is on the attack. I would suggest placing Cocu and/or Davids in the team at the very least, to hold the fort while the others are on offense.
Having Van Der Vaart AND Seedorf AND Sneijder + Robben and Van Der Meyde will just make sure that the opponents can sit in front of their ow goal and make a swift counter when the whole Orange team is on the attack. I would suggest placing Cocu and/or Davids in the team at the very least, to hold the fort while the others are on offense.
I actually think this is how Advocaat wil play against Germany, probably though with Davids instead of Van Der Vaart (Davids as a defensive, controlling midfielder), and of course a substitute for Seedorf, I'm not sure who.
Than again, maybe Advocaat will act like a moron again, and change nothing in defense, still using Stam and Bouma as the central duo.
EDIT: Yes, I see your point, and Davids would solve that problem. Cocu is in the team, just not on midfield.
Than again, maybe Advocaat will act like a moron again, and change nothing in defense, still using Stam and Bouma as the central duo.
EDIT: Yes, I see your point, and Davids would solve that problem. Cocu is in the team, just not on midfield.
Try as I might I couldn't find a site that converted the times to us pacific, except one but all it said was 9:00 .....no pm or am ....id prefer it to be pm since I work in the morning but even if its am I can at least catch the first game every morning. Anyway does anyone know how that converts?
- Status