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[Eurogamer]Phil Spencer on new hardware, price drops, mid-gen refreshes - and why the company won't ditch Series S.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
I think you have answered my question! I think Project Q is part of the PlayStation ecosystem and for Xbox, there isn't a specific Xbox handheld thing - you just have the ability to play Xbox games, and PC games on those other devices, like you mentioned.
Spencer: Yeah. And I'll pick the ROG Ally because it's one I'm playing on right now a lot. Every time I sit down I and I'm playing with it - I'm playing a lot of Brotato right now - but it's like, why doesn't this feel... why isn't this an Xbox? What is it about it, for the player experience? Forget about what colour the plastic is or whose name is on the back of it. What is it about that experience that is different when I'm on the go from what I have with my console? I think the differences are smaller and smaller for us. Because Game Pass is there so my library of games are there. The controls are basically the same ABXY, twin stick, triggers. My saved games are there. So yeah, I don't need people to buy a piece of hardware from us specifically to go play. It's an amazing Xbox experience, even though we didn't build the device. And I think that's totally fine.
You mentioned Series S, is there a future where you do have to leave it behind for some titles? Baldur's Gate 3 is a big one this year and obviously we're still waiting for the Xbox version of that, and where split-screen appears to be the issue. And it was mentioned recently that Forza Motorsport won't ship with splitscreen...
Spencer: Those two things aren't really related. Forza Motorsport was never going to have splitscreen. That's just a decision the team made based on usage. We see how many people play in splitscreen and just decided to put our dev effort where people are actually playing.
On S, specifically, we designed the box with similarities to X, and clear places where we're targeting a different performance. And we're taking feedback from devs including Larian, I met with them today to talk about it and I'm confident we're going to find a good solution and we're going to learn.
I don't see a world where we drop S. In terms of parity, "I don't think you've heard from us or Larian, that this was about parity. I think that's more that the community is talking about it." There are features that ship on X today that do not ship on S, even from our own games, like ray-tracing that works on X, it's not on S in certain games. So for an S customer, they spent roughly half what the X customer bought, they understand that it's not going to run the same way.
I want to make sure games are available on both, that's our job as a platform holder and we're committed to that with our partners. And I think we're gonna get there with Larian. So I'm not overly worried about that, but we've learned some stuff through it. Having an entry level price point for console, sub-$300, is a good thing for the industry. I think it's important, the Switch has been able to do that, in terms of kind of the traditional plug-into-my-television consoles. I think it's important. So we're committed.
Spencer: Yeah. And I'll pick the ROG Ally because it's one I'm playing on right now a lot. Every time I sit down I and I'm playing with it - I'm playing a lot of Brotato right now - but it's like, why doesn't this feel... why isn't this an Xbox? What is it about it, for the player experience? Forget about what colour the plastic is or whose name is on the back of it. What is it about that experience that is different when I'm on the go from what I have with my console? I think the differences are smaller and smaller for us. Because Game Pass is there so my library of games are there. The controls are basically the same ABXY, twin stick, triggers. My saved games are there. So yeah, I don't need people to buy a piece of hardware from us specifically to go play. It's an amazing Xbox experience, even though we didn't build the device. And I think that's totally fine.
You mentioned Series S, is there a future where you do have to leave it behind for some titles? Baldur's Gate 3 is a big one this year and obviously we're still waiting for the Xbox version of that, and where split-screen appears to be the issue. And it was mentioned recently that Forza Motorsport won't ship with splitscreen...
Spencer: Those two things aren't really related. Forza Motorsport was never going to have splitscreen. That's just a decision the team made based on usage. We see how many people play in splitscreen and just decided to put our dev effort where people are actually playing.
On S, specifically, we designed the box with similarities to X, and clear places where we're targeting a different performance. And we're taking feedback from devs including Larian, I met with them today to talk about it and I'm confident we're going to find a good solution and we're going to learn.
I don't see a world where we drop S. In terms of parity, "I don't think you've heard from us or Larian, that this was about parity. I think that's more that the community is talking about it." There are features that ship on X today that do not ship on S, even from our own games, like ray-tracing that works on X, it's not on S in certain games. So for an S customer, they spent roughly half what the X customer bought, they understand that it's not going to run the same way.
I want to make sure games are available on both, that's our job as a platform holder and we're committed to that with our partners. And I think we're gonna get there with Larian. So I'm not overly worried about that, but we've learned some stuff through it. Having an entry level price point for console, sub-$300, is a good thing for the industry. I think it's important, the Switch has been able to do that, in terms of kind of the traditional plug-into-my-television consoles. I think it's important. So we're committed.
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Lucifers Beard
Member
I’ve got no skin in this game but I’d be surprised if the Series S could even run games without serious cuts in the next couple of years. If Phil can’t see a world where they don’t drop the Series S then there’s potential that third party developers will just drop Xbox altogether, that’s not a world Phil will want to be in.
Bigger publishers will probably want to continue supporting Xbox as that’s the developers problem, I can see indies and smaller publishers dropping it though if it’s just too much work.
Bigger publishers will probably want to continue supporting Xbox as that’s the developers problem, I can see indies and smaller publishers dropping it though if it’s just too much work.
Riky
$MSFT
Starfield is the "starting gun" for first-party Xbox games
The launch of Starfield is the start of a "multi-year relay race of first-party titles," Xbox has told GamesIndustry.bi…
www.gamesindustry.biz
Even better news, Starfield is just the start of the onslaught. Looks like all the software is falling into place. The future line up just looks incredible.
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MisterXDTV
Member
Phil is amazing:
"A mid-gen will give problems to developers"....
His amazing Series S.... doesn't!
It's funny he didn't say that when they made the One X monster with 4K stamped on the chip!
"A mid-gen will give problems to developers"....
His amazing Series S.... doesn't!
It's funny he didn't say that when they made the One X monster with 4K stamped on the chip!
Mr Moose
Member
Starfield is the "starting gun" for first-party Xbox games
The launch of Starfield is the start of a "multi-year relay race of first-party titles," Xbox has told GamesIndustry.bi…
Even better news, Starfield is just the start of the onslaught. Looks like all the software is falling into place. The future line up just looks incredible.
There's already a thread for that.
Starfield is the "starting gun" for first-party Xbox games
Speaking at Gamescom, where the company has been showcasing the sci-fi RPG extensively, Xbox chief marketing officer Jerret West said the Bethesda game marks the start of a prolonged period of regular new Xbox exclusives. "This is, in my mind, the doorway, almost like a starting gun, to what I...
Sanepar
Member
I don't believe in any word from this guys but a few takes:
"We do very little that's going to force you to buy our console in order to play the games that we built." yeah true, but only because the strategy is to enforce people on cloud and renting(gamepass) model, their strategy is to eliminate local hw
About series S not being dropped, it will be by the market and developers so at one point series S will be a cloud access point.
"We do very little that's going to force you to buy our console in order to play the games that we built." yeah true, but only because the strategy is to enforce people on cloud and renting(gamepass) model, their strategy is to eliminate local hw
About series S not being dropped, it will be by the market and developers so at one point series S will be a cloud access point.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
What? The Cell was tough as hell to develop for...but it wasn't weak. That's why we got stuff like The Last of Us, Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2 during that gen
Devs can't perform miracles with a Series S.
Totally different situations.
I'm convinced this man is not a gamer. “Im playing a lot of brotato” uh, what?
He's down on a mid Gen refresh because Sony is going to beat them to the punch.
They want to replicate the mobile market so bad, that I'm almost convinced the ABK acquisition is more about candy crush.
The Series S is anti-consumer and doesn't contribute to the health of the industry. Gamepass is bad for gaming.
He's down on a mid Gen refresh because Sony is going to beat them to the punch.
They want to replicate the mobile market so bad, that I'm almost convinced the ABK acquisition is more about candy crush.
The Series S is anti-consumer and doesn't contribute to the health of the industry. Gamepass is bad for gaming.
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REDRZA MWS
Member
They will not admit anything about the S because that decision was made and followed through a long time ago, and there’s no turning back so why publicly admit anything? Their all in approach to game pass was the catalyst for this choice, they wanted a more affordable box to run this gen’s games while getting more gamepass revenue.
I think it’s smart of them to not do a mid gen refresh. Just focus on 1st party games here out and next gen just one powerful box.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
The only thing Microsoft cares about is GamePass.
BbMajor7th
Member
Starfield is the "starting gun" for first-party Xbox games
The launch of Starfield is the start of a "multi-year relay race of first-party titles," Xbox has told GamesIndustry.bi…
Even better news, Starfield is just the start of the onslaught. Looks like all the software is falling into place. The future line up just looks incredible.
As memory serves, the onslaught has been due to start any minute now since about 2015.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Starfield is the "starting gun" for first-party Xbox games
The launch of Starfield is the start of a "multi-year relay race of first-party titles," Xbox has told GamesIndustry.bi…
Even better news, Starfield is just the start of the onslaught. Looks like all the software is falling into place. The future line up just looks incredible.
Good interview.
They already got 4+ fp games this year, 2 more coming and Avowed in Q1.
MisterXDTV
Member
It's not a choice, it's a necessity. Adding a 3rd console wouldn't change the fact that Series S will remain the baseline, a weak baseline...
They are not selling the two consoles they are making NOW, how could adding a third one help their sales?
Riky
$MSFT
They won publisher of the year 2021. Also they have six first party games this year, easily more than any other first party.
Interfectum
Member
How can anyone believe a word out of his mouth? He's a people pleaser of the worst kind. He'll tell anyone what they want to hear then do his own thing.
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Spencer: Those two things aren't really related. Forza Motorsport was never going to have splitscreen. That's just a decision the team made based on usage. We see how many people play in splitscreen and just decided to put our dev effort where people are actually playing.
Hey Phil you might want to speak with your staff at Turn10 they tried but found it difficult implementing split screen so dropped it for launch.
BbMajor7th
Member
SIE won it in 2022, but no one ever mentions that - I wonder why? Maybe because it doesn't matter.
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scarlet0pimp
Member
There will be a Series X/S 2 in 2025 mark my words not a pro but just a new console. Fully backwards compatible so the boundary between generations becomes blurred.
Gives the developers the option to skip the series consoles (S in particular) if they wish, lets Sony have the power narrative for 1 year with the Pro, but they will try to take the wind out of the Pros sails by announcing the new Xbox shortly after.
Also allows Xbox to break free from having to release a new console when Sony does like what happened with the One/PS4 and Series/PS5. Probably work itself into a cycle of new PS then year later new Xbox.
Would not surprise me if Microsoft think that would also help them sell more consoles since tech enthusiasts may be more likely to buy both XBox and Playstation when there is a year or so difference in release window.
Gives the developers the option to skip the series consoles (S in particular) if they wish, lets Sony have the power narrative for 1 year with the Pro, but they will try to take the wind out of the Pros sails by announcing the new Xbox shortly after.
Also allows Xbox to break free from having to release a new console when Sony does like what happened with the One/PS4 and Series/PS5. Probably work itself into a cycle of new PS then year later new Xbox.
Would not surprise me if Microsoft think that would also help them sell more consoles since tech enthusiasts may be more likely to buy both XBox and Playstation when there is a year or so difference in release window.
Interfectum
Member
Hey Phil you might want to speak with your staff at Turn10 they tried but found it difficult implementing split screen so dropped it for launch.
Die Namek Ability
Member
"As soon as you start doing mid-gen refreshes, you've got a bunch of issues in front of developers"
Didnt thay claim the XsX was there mid gen refresh and the XSS was the entry level system?
So they knowingly caused dev issues from the jump and are now giving the the middle finger and saying you must support it if you want to release in their ecosystem.
The devs that have been pushing back on this all make sense now.
Didnt thay claim the XsX was there mid gen refresh and the XSS was the entry level system?
So they knowingly caused dev issues from the jump and are now giving the the middle finger and saying you must support it if you want to release in their ecosystem.
The devs that have been pushing back on this all make sense now.
cireza
Member
You do realize that it will lead to the exact same situation ? Two consoles that share a lot, but one being weaker than the other. Series S was there from day-one, which gives time to adjust to it. Pro console will arrive mid-gen, and like last gen, developers will only push for some easy wins and not make a huge difference.
Honestly, if anything, last gen was a good demonstration that a mid-gen refresh wasn't worth the money. And I enjoyed my One X, but for the most part it was a console that enhanced BC and gave 60fps in a few games. It wasn't all that incredible. And it was better than PS4 Pro... that tells a lot.
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Interfectum
Member
No doubt the long term plan will be to change their policy to "Download to Series X or Stream to Series S" for certain games. They'll pull that trigger by 2025. Bookmark this.
But yeah...a mid gen refresh will give more problems to developers.....
that are making a multi platform game for Series consoles. MS caused this issue themselves... I guess first party will be fine?
Oh boy.
that are making a multi platform game for Series consoles. MS caused this issue themselves... I guess first party will be fine?
Oh boy.
Exactly.
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MisterXDTV
Member
No matter what they do Xbox as a brand is dead. It's basically no longer associated with consoles. It' just a game service at this point...
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I just thought of the solution as I was taking a dump at work on the clock.
Microsoft should consider identifying themselves as him, it, or they in order to really pull in that woke crowd because once you have those people on your side they're going to push you to the moon. He might also want to consider going transgender.
Microsoft should consider identifying themselves as him, it, or they in order to really pull in that woke crowd because once you have those people on your side they're going to push you to the moon. He might also want to consider going transgender.
they pretty much fucked themselves into a corner with series s, regarding midgen refresh.
they were probably hoping sony wouldn’t do a pro.
now all he can do is pr spins and damage controls
enjoy getting hamstrung by the potato all the way to 2030
and this shithead talking about "problems for devs" while mandating a 1/3 powered console for the whole gen, gets to my nerves.
unfortunately he'll only do pr interviews, where no one will push back.
they were probably hoping sony wouldn’t do a pro.
now all he can do is pr spins and damage controls
enjoy getting hamstrung by the potato all the way to 2030
and this shithead talking about "problems for devs" while mandating a 1/3 powered console for the whole gen, gets to my nerves.
unfortunately he'll only do pr interviews, where no one will push back.
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REDRZA MWS
Member
Well, better hardware will always run games better by default. How about a more powerful console to experience Starfield and all the games they have lined up moving forward? And big 3rd party games?
I wasn’t talking about them not doing a mid gen refresh for some ridiculous fanboy discussion about sales. People acting like they own stock in Sony corp. Besides, tbey don’t need a mid gen box for power purposes only, because they will always have the power advantage because all their games are on PC. Pre ordered Starfield on Steam, pretty sure my 4090 will run it better than a mid gen refresh would.
Mr Moose
Member
Hey Phil you might want to speak with your staff at Turn10 they tried but found it difficult implementing split screen so dropped it for launch.
They dropped it completely, not just for launch.
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DaleinCalgary
Member
It would be a bigger issue if there were more Xbox's out there but I have faith developers see the PC and PS market share large enough to not bow to MS's rules and optimize for what they have the ability to do. The EA's and Activision, and UBI's of the world will continue pumping out mediocre stuff and some developers will put an effort in. Spend your money wisely.
ecentre
Member
Starfield is the "starting gun" for first-party Xbox games
The launch of Starfield is the start of a "multi-year relay race of first-party titles," Xbox has told GamesIndustry.bi…
Even better news, Starfield is just the start of the onslaught. Looks like all the software is falling into place. The future line up just looks incredible.
Horseganador
Member
Surely a GTA VI showing off on PS5 pro and selling like hot cakes is a complex problem for Sony xDDD, you have messed it up with Series S and you will never admit it Phil.
onnextflix5
Member
Just how bad are ms engineers not to see Ss would be unpowered and problematic , they just needed 4 gigs of extra ram, few more cu to hit 6tf.
There is not much they can do about it now, they need ride our this gen, the best they can and learn from this mistake for next gen.
There is not much they can do about it now, they need ride our this gen, the best they can and learn from this mistake for next gen.
Duchess
Member
I think my memory may well be better than yours, because I recall Microsoft saying back in 2000, with the release of the original Xbox, that they "did not intend to be on top right away, but it won't take long" (paraphrasing).
Well, over 20 years later and they're still bringing up the rear.
PS5 Pro is definitely happening. Fall 2024 per Henderson, whose Sony hardware leaks have been 100% correct.
balls of snow
Member
Or pc only. Maybe cut a deal with steam for 80-20 split.
I keep saying this but these interviews make me not want to buy games for the xbox. Will there be another after series. Who knows.
Agreed I was just paraphrasing what the dev said in the video which contradicts Phil. He's trying to blame player usage data as the reason for dropping the feature from the game when its a straight lie and devs just couldn't get it working so dropped it.
rickybooby87
Member
Hey Phil you might want to speak with your staff at Turn10 they tried but found it difficult implementing split screen so dropped it for launch.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
They can't drop Series S without incurring a lot of lawsuits.
They could however drop the parity clause which would help a bit at least. This could also invite a lawsuite but the scope would be a lot less.
Edit: And hell, reportedly XSS is over 50% of the userbase, it would be insane to drop that.
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
The XSS is the gaming industry platform holder equivalent of "fuck around and find out".
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
The problem is these "facts" are completely overagagerated, most games run quite easily on series S. Just because the odd game is harder doesn't mean every time is.
Lucifers Beard
Member
This I can agree with. Parity clause needs to go at the very least. Series S players will get a very similar game but may be missing some additional features such as split screen. I’d rather this than have to wait another 6 months to play a game.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
I just can't believe they aren't doing mid gen refreshes.
Once the PS5 Pro comes out and you've got the PS5 digital for $399 or less, Microsoft will have a really hard time moving Xbox hardware.
And maybe they don't care? Maybe they really do just primarily care about software sales and Game Pass subs and are content with that.
Just such an odd direction for MS right now. I'm having trouble understanding it.
Once the PS5 Pro comes out and you've got the PS5 digital for $399 or less, Microsoft will have a really hard time moving Xbox hardware.
And maybe they don't care? Maybe they really do just primarily care about software sales and Game Pass subs and are content with that.
Just such an odd direction for MS right now. I'm having trouble understanding it.
Hudo
Gold Member
Not only that but also the jump from PS5 Pro to PS6 is gonna be as small again as the jump from PS4 Pro to PS5. And then we're plagued with crossgen shit all over again.
Riky
$MSFT
They probably believe that software sells hardware as the Switch has proven. The next gen refreshes didn't outsell the original machines. Now they have the first party line up sorted they will believe that will sell hardware.