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[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Well yeah clever, but you've not given me a reason for this line of thought. How are Twitter and Facebook culpable for what their users post?

they aren't, they are responsible for curating these posts and to protect their users from harassment

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

It's impossible. You're talking about billions of post per day per platform. It would have to be algorithmic.

In this radiolab episode, one of the chief tech engineers of Facebook explains how 95% of all the posts flagged as hate speech are cute puppies, kittens and pictures of themselves they don't like. It's quite fascinating; http://www.radiolab.org/story/trust-engineers/

 

[Kimawolf]

So lets say these massive U.S. companies get fined into oblivion foe violating some E.U. hate speech laws. Does EU think there won't be some kind of equal response from the current U.S. government rather fair or not?


Or maybe FB and co make two versions. One for the rest of the world and one for EU ala China?

 

[tonysidaway]

That and I don't really agree with this notion that Facebook and Twitter are publishers and responsible for the behaviour of their users.

That is a well established principle of law in many jurisdictions. It took an act of Congress to have it removed in the United States.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

So lets say these massive U.S. companies get fined into oblivion foe violating some E.U. hate speech laws. Does EU think there won't be some kind of equal response from the current U.S. government rather fair or not?

the US should already be fining EU companies that haven't fulfilled their commitment or what's legally required of them. Regardless of this.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Well yeah clever, but you've not given me a reason for this line of thought. How are Twitter and Facebook culpable for what their users post?

Because they OWN all content on their platform as publishers as per LAW. Just like this board does:

Terms of Service #1
I. Membership and Admissions


C. By registering an account at NeoGAF.com and participating (including but not limited to submitting posts or private messages on NeoGAF.com), you hereby grant NeoGAF LLC and our licensees, distributors, agents, representatives and other authorized users, a perpetual, non-exclusive, irrevocable, fully-paid, royalty-free, sub-licensable and transferable (in whole or part) worldwide license under all copyrights, trademarks, patents, trade secrets, privacy and publicity rights and other intellectual property rights you own or control to use, reproduce, transmit, display, exhibit, distribute, index, comment on, modify, create derivative works based upon, perform and otherwise exploit the messages posted or private messages sent on NeoGAF.com, in whole or in part, in all media formats and channels now known or hereafter devised, for any and all purposes including entertainment, news, advertising, promotional, marketing, publicity, trade or commercial purposes, all without further notice to you, with or without attribution, and without the requirement of any permission from or payment to you or to any other person or entity.

You can't monetize what you don't own, ergo: you own it, you monetize it, you're responsible.

This is really a very basic concept, fellas. Seriously.

 

[MJLord]

they aren't, they are responsible for curating these posts and to protect their users from harassment

Isn't that the goal of blocking tools that these services already provide? (I'm not saying the tools there right now are perfect, there's room for improvement)

Shouldn't we be pushing Fb and Twitter for better tools to help curate our own content and who we can or can't communicate with?

 

[Kill Your Masters]

I dont really approve of this kind of censorship. If people want to publicly reveal they are racist idiots then let em. We can just point and laugh at em or ignore em. These kinda laws can be a slippery slope into sum real bad ju ju.

Just my opinion tho. I appreciate where those approving of this come from but imo the long term effects seem kinda bad. Its pretty easy to avoid things on the internet that you dont like. By doing so you also dont empower the racist idiots.

You can't nazi around in Germany without receiving a fine though. This is what the EU wants enforced on the internet. Things that are already regulated.

Also, pointing and laughing hasn't been the best thing to do if we look at the current state of things. Many young minds who are easy to persuade and manipulate are exposed to hateful rhetoric each day just by pulling a device out of their pocket and opening 2 apps.

Well yeah clever, but you've not given me a reason for this line of thought. How are Twitter and Facebook culpable for what their users post?

Of course they are. Post a boob or copyrighted material and it gets removed quickly. Give Russians a platform for illegal activity during the US campaign and Mueller knocks on your door.

Why is it different for other things that are law already, like hate speech in Europe?

 

[Mr. Badger]

Maybe they can fine them for every stupid meme that gets spawned too.... fricking elf on a shelf shit show.

Facebook recently is awash with crappy video, click bait and political crap. Such a shame.

 

[SolarPowered]

Hit 'em with that Haymaker, Europe. Someone needs to knock Facebook and American social media companies down a few pegs.

 

[StrategyFan]

has the EU actually done anything to go after the individual citizens under its jurisdiction who post hate speech on these platforms?

they can't do anything about foreigners, but most of the hate speech in Europeans' feeds is probably written by people in their circles (eg. other Europeans)

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Isn't that the goal of blocking tools that these services already provide? (I'm not saying the tools there right now are perfect, there's room for improvement)

Shouldn't we be pushing Fb and Twitter for better tools to help curate our own content and who we can or can't communicate with?

putting the onus on the user is not a solution, give them the tools but don't shirk your responsibilities.

Twitter and facebook want to operate in the EU they'll have to comply with the law like anywhere else.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

Could they possibly hide posts that contain hate speech in specific regions? Could they create an algorithm to find such posts and simply hide them from European eyes?

 

[tonysidaway]

has the EU actually done anything to go after the individual citizens under its jurisdiction who post hate speech on these platforms?

they can't do anything about foreigners, but most of the hate speech in Europeans' feeds is probably written by people in their circles (eg. other Europeans)

Yes, it's a big deal. For instance 857 arrests in 2015 in London alone:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...nd-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html

 

[Quonny]

Could they possibly hide posts that contain hate speech in specific regions? Could they create an algorithm to find such posts and simply hide them from European eyes?

I worked on a project that tried to do such a thing for Twitter specifically.

It was a disaster. Hate speech and language evolved way too fast for us to keep up with. Flagging words is easy, determining intent is not. Lots of false flags. They cancelled the project after only two months.

 

[LegendofJoe]

It seems to me the way to develop an effective algorithm is to hire a ton of human moderators with clear instructions on what to look for. And then quantify their actions to find patterns. Do that over a decent period of time and then use the data to develop an algorithm.

It would also help to have people infiltrate hate movements to learn their code words and patterns of thought. And then use that information along with existing interpretations of hate speech laws in the EU to develop the instructions for the moderators to follow.

Edit: And due to the fluid nature of language the moderator instructions and data reflecting their actions would have to be continually updated.

 

[Vital Tundra]

The EU seems like the saving grace of protecting the internet from shitty practice it seems.

 

[ClosingADoor]

So lets say these massive U.S. companies get fined into oblivion foe violating some E.U. hate speech laws. Does EU think there won't be some kind of equal response from the current U.S. government rather fair or not?


Or maybe FB and co make two versions. One for the rest of the world and one for EU ala China?

Yes, the EU should totally roll over for US companies out of fear for retaliation. That is surely the basis for a healthy relationship with one of your largest partners. Because the EU totally can't fire back to that also, being the largest trade bloc in the world importing $20+ billion a month.

has the EU actually done anything to go after the individual citizens under its jurisdiction who post hate speech on these platforms?

they can't do anything about foreigners, but most of the hate speech in Europeans' feeds is probably written by people in their circles (eg. other Europeans)

Yes, this happens. For example, we had people making racist remarks to a politician here. Some that went really far got fines or community service.

 

[Terrell]

I hope that is sarcasm, otherwise, yeah, glorious

Social media platforms need to handle their T&Cs far better, but I'm not quite sure how the EU can just blanket fine a private company like this. I'm sure they probably can do it somehow.

They're not exactly private companies, considering they're all on the stock exchange now.

No one has answered my question on "what stops Russian trolls from using this against groups they don't like?"

Yes, people have. Hate speech has legal definitions, so if a troll is shutting down speech that isn't covered, if it falls outside of the well-noted definition of what hate speech is, then it would not be dealt with as such. And with all legal definitions, spurious claims that fall outside of it can be taken to court to confirm that it has been classed incorrectly.

The countries of the EU and other nations like Canada have very clearly-written documentation of what is and isn't classified as hate speech.

This idea that people can claim anything they disagree with to be hate speech is ludicrous and used to make less-informed people indignant toward societal progress.

So lets say these massive U.S. companies get fined into oblivion foe violating some E.U. hate speech laws. Does EU think there won't be some kind of equal response from the current U.S. government rather fair or not?

Facebook and Twitter, despite being the tools used to rally supporters, aren't exactly in the Trump administration's good graces.
I mean, with all the talk of Zuckerberg running for the Democratic nomination, I think that tells you how readily Trump will jump to defend them. Especially when Trump supporters consider the internet to have become one of those reviled "safe spaces" for "beta cucks" that they're fighting a culture war to take back from them, I don't think those folks have much sympathy for these platforms that Trump would rush to protect them.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Consequences will be unavoidable if this goes through:

I'm sorry but this is a dumb wall of shit.

 

[ChainedMaster]

European company Bayer gives children AIDS through hemophilia products. Nothing gets done. American company lets bad words on their websites, massive fines incoming. Fuck out of here.

 

[Kyzer]

They're not exactly private companies, considering they're all on the stock exchange now.

Thats not how that works

 

[rokkerkory]

100% approved

 

[Cow Mengde]

Good good. I hope these platforms get hit hard.