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European Super League (Football/Soccer)
- Thread starter T8SC
- Start date
DKehoe
Member
The brother of City's owner did that to someone. Got a police officer to help him torture someone out in the desert and had it recorded so he could watch it back for fun later. And obviously there's the slavery stuff too. No doubt Barcelona and other teams have their issues. But City are directly tied to that regime. At least Barcelona responded to pressure and moved on from having Qatar as a sponsor. City are rotten to the fucking core.lol what?
Do you have any source of that?
I get that a lot of City fans grew up without the kind of success they now have. So perhaps it's more tempting to turn a blind eye to what's fuelling that success. And maybe it's easier to judge if you're more used to seeing your team be successful. But surely there's a limit.
Prison Mike
Banned
I grew up watching us at maine road so yeah i get the point m8
Sybrix
Gold Member
Basically the British fans stuck a big middle finger up to the American managing style of the biggest sport in the worldAs an American with very little understanding of the European Football leagues reading through this thread.
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
I've been thinking for a while about what entertainment brands can so when they max out revenue and there seem to be more and more examples coming up all the time.
Easy mode in Dark Souls, the new Star Wars movies, almost the entire comic book industry, Disney live action remakes, LOTR Amazon series. Basically trying to sell your brand to people who don't actually like the thing by transforming it while hoping brand loyalty keeps the "legacy customers" around. Always defended by people saying "more money is good.". Even going so far as people celebrating their favourite brand posting huge profits. See, Nintendo vs Sony vs Microsoft.
I think at a certain point the max number of people who like the product in its current form is reached so you have to find a way to get new customers by changing the product but also retain loyal "fans".
Hence why yer man Perez at Madrid is going on about making matches shorter because kids aren't interested in 90 minute matches. Or why you have absolute madmen thinking that giving a penalty after 10 fouls would make the game better because no fouls and extra penalties would mean more goals.
The who concept is basically football for people who kind of don't like football but do like repping brands on their social and love "reacting" to stuff to try and go viral.
I always found it interesting that the majority of the hype around the superbowl is about the halftime show and the commercials. I think WWE also tries to run this kind of model where the product is secondary to all of the ads and all of the "moments". The idea is to entice people with moments and get them into a subscription.
Even video game marketing has gone that way with people going crazy for E3 and State of Play and Nintendo Direct because of all the "surprise" clips and announcements but then everyone ends up admitting they have a massive "backlog" cos nobody has time to play like twenty 80 hour games at a time.
After the events of this week it seems like even football is not immune to this.
Its feels like major clubs have decided that there needs to be less of this:
And more of this:
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DKehoe
Member
Sure, I get you didn't jump on the bandwagon. But is there a point where the incredible football and results you are getting just isn't worth what you're giving up?
Jon Neu
Banned
Prison Mike
Banned
I mean i love my club so il never walk away
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
Makes sense with Madrid fans considering the whole Galacticos concept. Also pushed by Perez by the way.
Basically the club would sign players who were brands in their own right and have them all under the Real Madrid banner. Beckham was huge for them because of his popularity in Asia. It was almost ALL about marketing. (Fantastic player, mind you).
Barcelona are not too far behind. You can almost guarantee that when Barca faces a team that is organised and defends well and doesn't win you will find a parade of Barcelona fans weeping about fouls and ways to make the game be more open or have more goals. They just want to see Disney football where Barca can win every game with loads of goals but, just like a kid told they can't buy any more merch at Disney World, they'll throw an absolute tantrum when a team engages in some footballing "dark arts" and holds them to a 0-0.
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Jon Neu
Banned
Man, that rule proposition really triggered you to no end, uh.
I understand your virtue signalling position you hold yourself of being the gatekeeper of the real football ™. But like it or not, football evolves and the game has undergone a lot of changes through time that also were met with reactionary closed minded & melancholic people like yourself.
Change is inevitable, your suffering because of it is optional.
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Dural
Member
What is American managing style?
Jon Neu
Banned
Something evil, unlike british and arab sheik managing style.
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
I rest my case.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
When it's all about the money and not the game
ForAcademicPurposes
Member
Jon Neu
Banned
By the way, Florentino has talked again.
Among a lot of things, there's one thing I think he's right about: the lack of transparency from UEFA and FIFA.
We don't know how they operate, we don't know what their members earn (money that cames from the fans and the teams) and they are institutions heavily tainted by corruption. We are literally going to play a World Cup (in winter) in a country with a severe lack of human rights but that has a lot of tentacles into the UEFA and FIFA (Al-Khelaifi has been named new president of the ECA right now). A lot of people has died in the construction of the stadiums for some reason and seems like nobody cares at all, seems like all that is a price everybody is willing to pay in exchange for some oil money.
More accountability and transparency about all of this should be mandatory.
Among a lot of things, there's one thing I think he's right about: the lack of transparency from UEFA and FIFA.
We don't know how they operate, we don't know what their members earn (money that cames from the fans and the teams) and they are institutions heavily tainted by corruption. We are literally going to play a World Cup (in winter) in a country with a severe lack of human rights but that has a lot of tentacles into the UEFA and FIFA (Al-Khelaifi has been named new president of the ECA right now). A lot of people has died in the construction of the stadiums for some reason and seems like nobody cares at all, seems like all that is a price everybody is willing to pay in exchange for some oil money.
More accountability and transparency about all of this should be mandatory.
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
In the US the NFL for example is a closed league. No relegation for failing teams. No possibility for new teams to come in.
In England, for example, someone could set up a new football club and slowly climb their way up to the top.
So you can have a team like Dorking Wanderers FC climbing up and up through different tiers and there is even the possibility that one day such a club could enter the top league. Very unlikely but still possible.
I believe that Dorking have managed to navigate a number of promotions. The most in British football history actually. Founded in 1999.
In 1998 Manchester City were sitting in the THIRD tier of English football. Next Wednesday they will play in a Champions League semi-final in Paris.
The new "American" system aims to prevent that by making such things move from improbable to outright impossible.
Of course some people just want to create a league of the "best" teams and lock everyone else out.
In 2008 Leicester City were relegated to the third tier of English football. In 2016 they were crowned Champions of England for the first time in their history.
Some people will hear that story and think its inspiring and romantic.
Others will hear it and say "how can we stop this from ever happening again, I just want to see only the same teams playing each other and sharing the victories among themselves forever."
Imagine if some guys from Montana decided to start their own Football team and year after year they improved and competed and climbed the ranks and eventually entered the NFL and won the whole thing. In England, because of the pyramid, its possible. Of course unlikely but as I've shown with Man City or Leicester it could potentially happen. Not if the league is closed to anyone outside a select few.
Some people argue that because I want to see a team like Dorking potentially climb all the way to the top I am somehow stubborn and resistant to change. But a closed league where it can never ever happen is just really a cool and forward thinking idea.
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Jon Neu
Banned
Florentino worried about transparency
Don't get me wrong, Florentino is a corrupt hack himself, but even corrupt hacks can make good points.
Prison Mike
Banned
I was at wembley v gillingham wen city won 2nd div playoffs
Prison Mike
Banned
Obviously without backing wed not be where we are but our owners have done alot for Manchester
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
It just baffles me that there are people who are totally fine with that all going away.
If City were to win the CL this year that's 22 years from League One play offs to Champions of Europe?
Yet I am the one who's branded reactionary, closed minded and melancholic because I think this is an amazing story that clubs should be able to aspire to?
No the real open minded people think "what if we just restricted access to the big competitions and the big prize money cos it sucks when new teams get in and I can't watch Barcelona swan diving all over the place and the last time they had a 0-0 draw I was so bored I started inventing crazy rules that would make football better."
Some people will just never ever get it.
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
Still, from this...
To this...
Is one hell of a story.
This might be terribly closed minded and backward for me to say but stuff like this should be possible and not blocked out by rich owners and fans with no real interest in or passion for the game.
Prison Mike
Banned
Got my 9320 tattoo lol
Jon Neu
Banned
I'm sorry I hurted your feelings so much.
By the way, your closed minded and reactionary point of view comes from your ridiculously agressive position against introducing a new rule, it has nothing to do with you wanting the underdog to be capable of playing against the big teams like you are trying to frame it now to try to look better.
Everybody loves an underdog, everybody loves the tale of the little team that escalates and goes against the big team. Stop arguing against strawmans.
It really isn't.
Sadly, this is the story of Manchester City. Financial doping.
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
How come Barcelona and Espanyol have such divergent histories considering how close the clubs are geographically?I'm sorry I hurted your feelings so much.
By the way, your closed minded and reactionary point of view comes from your ridiculously agressive position against introducing a new rule, it has nothing to do with you wanting the underdog to be capable of playing against the big teams like you are trying to frame it now to try to look better.
Everybody loves an underdog, everybody loves the tale of the little team that escalates and goes against the big team. Stop arguing against strawmans.
It really isn't.
Sadly, this is the story of Manchester City. Financial doping.
Jog on mate.
Prison Mike
Banned
I'm sorry I hurted your feelings so much.
By the way, your closed minded and reactionary point of view comes from your ridiculously agressive position against introducing a new rule, it has nothing to do with you wanting the underdog to be capable of playing against the big teams like you are trying to frame it now to try to look better.
Everybody loves an underdog, everybody loves the tale of the little team that escalates and goes against the big team. Stop arguing against strawmans.
It really isn't.
Sadly, this is the story of Manchester City. Financial doping.
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
"If a team commits 10 fouls the opposition should be given a penalty..."
Fuckin, LOL.
Jon Neu
Banned
Funny enough, both teams of Manchester had a similar situation to Barça and Espanyol. Until you know, financial doping appeared.
But if we go back in time it's the little things that set everything in motion and explain the vast differences between both teams. Barcelona started as an international and cosmopolitan minded team, while Espanyol, as it's own name indicates, was the team of the spanish nationalists in Barcelona.
The people of Barcelona in general had more simpathies for the values of Barcelona than for the values of Espanyol. So more people started attending Barcelona's games, building interest and therefore bringing more money. That money was used to buy great players that also build more interest and the ball keeps rolling until today.
Like Bruce Springsteen once said; "From small things mama, big things one day come".
Jon Neu
Banned
I remember some people like you laughing when years ago I was advocating for video use to referee some important parts of the game.
The exact same agressivity against it, the exact same closed minded cries about killing football!! I didn't expect it this time to come from a british, because you know, british don't even know how to play football, why would they even have the right to talk about it. But still the exact same ultra conservative discourse and the same notion that football is only the romanticized idea they have in their heads and nothing else (they were all Madrid fans, by the way).
And then reality happened.
I'm sure with time rules against massive use of fouls are going to be implemented, among other things. Because in the end, change is just like me hurting your feelings; inevitable.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Funny enough, both teams of Manchester had a similar situation to Barça and Espanyol. Until you know, financial doping appeared.
But if we go back in time it's the little things that set everything in motion and explain the vast differences between both teams. Barcelona started as an international and cosmopolitan minded team, while Espanyol, as it's own name indicates, was the team of the spanish nationalists in Barcelona.
The people of Barcelona in general had more simpathies for the values of Barcelona than for the values of Espanyol. So more people started attending Barcelona's games, building interest and therefore bringing more money. That money was used to buy great players that also build more interest and the ball keeps rolling until today.
Like Bruce Springsteen once said; "From small things mama, big things one day come".
I have no horse in this race but Espanyol have been under Chinese ownership since 2016. If it was under an Abramovitch type of ownership, they would have been doing much better. In the meantime, Barcelona carries a massive debt and are close to bankruptcy.
Squirrel Killer
Member
Couple of things here...
Dorking may be a great story coming out of an open system, but it doesn't make closed systems some sort of inherently evil, invalid format.
Despite all the pearl clutching, the Super League wasn't going to be a closed system according to their announced format, just that the founding members would be protected, they were going to round out the rest of the league with teams that had to qualify. Liga MX also has some protections for their long term members (albeit not nearly as strong as the proposed SL protections.)
Finally, no, the lads down at the pub that founded whatever heartwarming team you want to cite aren't going to the Premier League. That's a fantasy told to impressionable kids to get them to buy in to the pro/rel religion. Sure the organization with the same name may get there, but the players will have completely turned over in order to compete in the higher levels, the people running the club will have completely turned over because running even a League Two team requires more business acumen than they likely have, and the fan base will have had to have grown so large to support a Premier League campaign that those initial 150 or so stalwarts that actually supported the team on the cold rainy nights in the beginning will be dwarfed by the glory seekers that claim they were at Shitsbury Lane when the team was still in the King & Country KarMart North Southeastern Peninsulian League with them. You're rooting for laundry.
Prison Mike
Banned
Never truly loved a club then no
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
I would say that's part of the core difference in people who think the Super League is not a bad idea.
In other communities, even this one here, there is a dismissive attitude towards people who are seen as caring to much.
"It's just pixels on a screen, LOL."
"It's just stories about space wizards."
"You're just rooting for laundry."
Maybe this is why over time hobbies and communities tend to become a kind of soulless and money driven shadow of their former selves. There's always someone there to say you are dumb for caring and should just let it happen.
So the long term City fan who loves his once a season trip down to Brighton is laughed at because the worldwide audience doesn't want to watch City vs B&H Albion.
"LOL so you and other meat sacks enjoy sitting in a moving metal box and consuming fermented barley before going to a concrete structure to make noises while watching millionaires kick a bit of leather around."
Anything can be broken down to this kind of dismissive description. Basically the thing you like is stupid and you are stupid for caring.
Meanwhile these same people are more than happy to sit in their wanking chariot watching clips of Messi doing skills and "reacting".
Forget community. Forget history. Just consume product and then get excited for next products.
For me, there is definitely something horrible about the idea that say Feyenoord vs Galatasaray is just dismissed as "well people in China wouldn't want to watch that they want to see Messi vs Ronaldo or Benzema vs Salah" and the solution is to construct a competition that looks to exclude those teams from both the sporting AND business side of things.
There is an interesting side to it though which is where we are going as a globalised society and how there is really an great push against the idea of the underdog story. How the evolution of our culture has people just saying "why should my preferred corporate behemoth risk losing money to some plucky upstart."
DKehoe
Member
I wonder if the fan who just watches Messi highlight videos on YouTube and Twitter actually wants to see those top club vs top club matches long term. If you're coming for the incredible goals and flashy moves you're going to get more of those when the superstars play some small team that just managed to squeak it's way into the Champions League than you would against a high level defence.
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
I would guess that over time they would just change the rules of the game. Possibly make it a non-contact sport or something.
A thing that always fascinated me about basketball is that with a decent team averaging 90+ points per game how do fans really celebrate the first few points scored in a match? Like, you know there will be about 30 point scoring moments in every game so is there only excitement in the last quarter?
I feel like if you settle down to watch Bayern vs PSG in last seasons CL final you know that 1 goal might be all we get. So it's like when that goal comes it's huge.
On the other hand a single goal is probably seen as very boring by basketball fans.
DKehoe
Member
I think it's all just relative really in that you appreciate what stands out for that sport. It's the same as how in football you can cheer a player getting a great tackle in or applaud them for picking out a tricky pass. It doesn't necessarily decide the game but your knowledge of the sport gives you an appreciation for what you just saw.
I don't know too much about basketball (although watching The Last Dance recently has made me more interested in it) but I'd imagine you can still enjoy the scoring on its own terms. A long range shot or spectacular slam dunk are aesthetically pleasing to watch no matter what point of the game they occur at. Also I'd imagine you can enjoy watching your team build up an early lead in the same way you can enjoy watching your football team dominate possession and create lots of chances early on even if they haven't scored yet. It's not decisive but it's fun to watch and a good indication things will go your team's way.
Squirrel Killer
Member
llien
Member
I'd sign up on "f8ck" without reservations.
Corrupt organizations, pumped with insane amounts of money.
llien
Member
There is a genuine problem with "lots of small faults" tactics.
In, say, basketball it is addressed in... well, sorts of penalties.
Now, penalty is a tad too harsh, but I still like the thought. Perhaps a corner for every N committed fouls after M fouls.
Majukun
Member
it is an evil system for an european mindset.
a sport is not a sport if losing doesn't matter, a sport is not a sport if you have a ceiling that you can't go over no matter what you deserve on the pitch.
also those team self proclamating themselves kings of europe just because of money was the cherry on top of this horrible idea
for the last part, you'll never know. no one is saying that a small team is going to premier league soon, but sport is made of cycles, some tems goes up, some tems go down, some teams were at the top of the world in a decade and now they disappeared or play in lower leagues (see Kaiserlautern in Germany).
all the superleague 12 wanted to do was crystalize this moment in football history forever, self nominate themselves king of football and reign for all eternity regardless of sport merit
that, for an european football fan, a real one, it's disgusting, evil, and goes against everything sport is about.
does money run football? sure it does, but that doesn't mean that who has the money now (and even that it's debatable since they have a shitton of debts) should be on top for all eternity just because they happen to have the most money in this specific decade.
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Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Espanyol took that name because it started as a team inside the Spanish Athletic Federation and they were called the Spanish Football Association.
A year later they changed their name to español (Spanish team), since the city already had the Barcelona team, the Catalan team and the Hispanic team and it linked them to their original name and progenitor association. Yeah, surprise, this city had more than two teams at the turn of the century.
You’re trying to retrofit your current political biases to something that happened over 100 years ago.
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Dural
Member
Why wouldn't you want a set number of teams with the best players competing with each other? Otherwise you have the best players playing with b-tier players, everything thinned out the more teams you have. I wouldn't want NFL teams competing with NCAA, XFL, or CFL teams, it would be ridiculous. The best players move up from those leagues to the top and compete with each other. Can't say I understand the idea that you'd want scrubs playing with the best athletes. Also increases the chances of a scrub injuring a top athlete.
Black Republican
Member
Where my fellow arsenal pals at?
Banjo64
cumsessed
Oh man, his brother did some shit. Wow. Well fuck me with a cattle prod.
Funny how it’s always the vagueness of ‘the slavery stuff’ but no one can ever provide evidence of a link between Shiekh Mansour himself and slavery.
Barca are a billion in debt, sponsored by all sorts and you’re preaching morality. Mes Que Un Club is right, you’re a club of cunts
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Banjo64
cumsessed
In case you’ve missed it mate, no one is allowed to do that anymore.
That’s why everyone has to file their independently audited books to UEFA for inspection (in City’s case Deloitte are the auditors).
For your benefit, it’s illegal in the extreme for the club or auditor to lie about any of this shit. Actually illegal, not just against UEFA’s rules. Deloitte’s international reputation would be left in tatters if they were involved in such a cover up.
UEFA also closely scrutinise any sponsorship that is considered a related party.
CAS also reviewed the evidence in City vs UEFA (as UEFA were alleging the same thing as you, but they said this happened a decade ago, not even recently) and found no evidence to support it (all charges were investigated barring Etisalat which was statute barred).
So all that being said, where is the opportunity for an owner to directly inject cash to cover debt?
‘Pretty much a fact’, but such a claim has no factual foundation whatsoever, as all accounts are also published as a matter of public record. What you really mean is it’s a lie repeated often enough by bitter jealous peasants of teams like Liverpool and United, who had to wait 30 years for a league title despite out spending 99% of English clubs and who spunk away hundreds of millions on absolute shite like Lukaku, Maguire and Sanchez.
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DKehoe
Member
He's the depute prime minister of a country that practises slavery. The connection is pretty simple. This isn't just a guy from a country whose government does some dodgy shit. He's directly part of the regime and benefits from that. And City are now a cog in that machine.Oh man, his brother did some shit. Wow. Well fuck me with a cattle prod.
Funny how it’s always the vagueness of ‘the slavery stuff’ but no one can ever provide evidence of a link between Shiekh Mansour himself and slavery.
Barca are a billion in debt, sponsored by all sorts and you’re preaching morality. Mes Que Un Club is right, you’re a club of cunts
I'm not defending Barcelona as being innocent. Like I said all of the big clubs have their issues. But City and PSG are bottom of the barrel. Being in a shitload of debt doesn't compare to them.
Your club sold its soul and can't even get a treble in return.
Banjo64
cumsessed
What a bizarre comment, so is it a moral issue for you or just a point scoring exercise based on sport?
It’s not relevant anyway, as I’ve never met a City fan at the ground who’s been like ‘oh my god we have to win the treble’, but we won the only domestic treble in the 133 year history of the English game.
I’m not sure what your point is. He’s part of a regime that commits atrocities? OK. What’s your point? So was Tony Blair and all of his cabinet when he started the Iraq war with George Bush. So was Obama when he led his drone war on hundreds of desert villages.
We’re definitely his best cog. Although the Barclay’s and Virgin Galactic deals were pretty sick too.