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[StreetsofBeige]

It's literally the same principle as giving a yellow and a red card. You cheat, you receive a punishment.

Except players have learned how to cheat the red card punishment and can keep away with fouling and destroying the game without repercussions all the time. You want to prevent players from fouling too much? Make every foul count, not just an irrelevant statistic.

And by the way, a foul is much worse than someone diving, because someone diving doesn't stop the game from being played, but a foul is by definition the intention of stoping the game from being played by the sheer act of cheating.

But for some weird reason, british are okay with fouls -some even see them as something good and brave, like if somehow football was rugby- but despise diving like if it was the antichrist reincarnated. It's kind of amusing because it doesn't make any sense.



Funny, Barça endures much more fouls that aren't called than fouls that are "simulated" and called.



If you can't challenge the ball without fouling the opponent 10 times, maybe you aren't very good at challenging the ball.

But british teams can indulge in mindlessly challenging the ball all they want and then they will have penalties to shoot and actually score more goals, I fail to see how that is a bad thing, lads.

And by the way, there are matches being played today that end up with teams having less than 10 fouls. It's not an impossible feat, you can actually play football without fouling all the time, believe me.

The problem with the diving is due to a few key things:

1. It's part of the game and tolerated

2. Virtually zero repercussions for diving. Even the biggest soccer fan I'm sure has seen almost no penalty for divers. So it's a no lose situation. You might as well try it. At worst the ref says no call and get up

3. The game clock keeps ticking. So best way to kill time is to fake an injury. Other sports have time stopped, so trying to kill time doesn't make sense. Someone will say, but a ref will just add injury time so it's a wash. There is no way refs adding a few minutes here and there equals players lying on the ground.

Time added is totally subjective. I have never seen a ref call the game over when a team has the ball deep in the zone with a scoring chance. The ref waits for a team to clear the ball to mid field or something, then the ref calls the game over

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Florentino Perez was scheduled to appear in a radio show half an hour ago, but he hasn't appeared in the studio yet.

Did they just all throw Perez under the bus.

 

[dcmk7]

No, it's not.

When a player dives outside the area, the referee simply doesn't give the call and the game continues.

I mean, have you even watched any game ever?



That's not diving, that's pretending to be injured. Most players nowadays don't even need to dive to pretend they are injured, they simply act like they are when they want to break the rhythm of the attacking team and waste time. PSG for example was doing that in the second half against Bayern the other day.

Games having a real playing time of 55 minutes it's a disgrace. I'm completely in favour of not letting that happen, but I don't know which rules could be implemented to prevent it. Maybe do like the NBA and stop the clock every time the ball isn't in movement and also limit the number of fouls a team can make before being punished for it, just like the NBA too.




Players already dive all around the pitch free of consequences (except in the penalty area), but your weird obsession with players diving as if it's super important to the game it's astonishing.

And yes, a game in which you can't make 24 fouls because you are going to get heavily punished for it, makes the game far more fluid and attacking minded than letting the rival team foul every promising attack to stop and drag the game through the mud all the time.

Players nowadays view fouling as something almost free of consequences if you know how to do it. How many players can do 3, 4 or 5 fouls and no receive not even a yellow card because the fouls were not that apparent? And if a player receives a yellow card, the team still has 10 players more to commit fouls all the time.

Make a foul, take the ball with you or shoot it away to prevent the other team from playing the ball and go complain to the referee about the foul to lose even more time. You can see that behaviour all the time in every game and it completely destroys the game itself.

That's cheating too, you're literally using force to preventing the playing of the game itself.



Again, the referee would be the one calling the fouls, not VAR. No stopping time added, a lot of fluidity and time earned through the teams not being able to foul everybody all the time. Players will know that fouling (aka cheating), have severe consequences so they will refrain to do it so often and more creative plays and spaces will be made inside the pitch.



Hahahaha, what?

So that's why the rule hurts you so much? Because you don't want attacking teams to be rewarded over fouling prone teams?

You could have say that from the beginning, at least you wouldn't have sounded half as ignorant.

A wall of text doesn't make your idea any less stupid.

In a high profile derby having players avoid tackling each other fearing giving away fouls?

I mean come on, you don't see how ridiculous that is?

What happens if a referee gets some innocuous fouls wrong, didn't consult VAR, and totally screws over a team, in a world cup final.

I don't think you quite get football.

You want football without tackling, more diving and artificial goals based on penalty's. All incredibly dumb.

 

[cyber_ninja]

So I made a mistake and decided to stop by real madrid's subreddit. Quite a few of their fans are genuinely pissed because all English clubs jumped the ship; those fuckers really wanted super league to happen. Yikes, what a bunch of sore losers.

 

[Jon Neu]

1. It's part of the game and tolerated

You can't make diving dissapear, it's just the way it is. Moralwise people can reeee about it all they want, but gamewise it's not that big of a problem.

Excessive fouls on the other hand, completely destroy the game in it's entirety.

What happens if a referee gets some innocuous fouls wrong, didn't consult VAR, and totally screws over a team, in a world cup final.

I don't think you quite get football.

Yeah, could you imagine a big game being screwed by a referee decision?

Thank God in football that never happens.

Glad you quite get it.

You want football without tackling,

Nice strawman.

Carles Puyol was one of the players who indulged more in tackles and physicality that I have ever seen, but also the cleanest defender I have ever seen. He was capable of playing a lot of consecutive games without doing a single foul.

The notion that you have to foul to tackle is stupid. But it's also stupid the notion that by punishing fouls, fouls and tackles will cease to exist. That's like believing that punishing fouls in the area as penalties will make players don't commit penalties anymore.

This was a play inside the area the other day.

Thank God we have VAR to call the penalty, right?

Ask Getafe fans about it.

artificial goals based on penalty's

So penalties are now artificial goals.

The games in which a foul is called every minute of actual playing are artificial games then?

 

[mekes]

I really hope the rumours about Glazers preparing to sell are true.

Been a wild few days. I can only speak properly as a United fan, but in a lot of ways we have had a slightly calmer version of these past few days as our last 15 odd years at specific points. Everything we have been saying about our owners amongst ourselves has been outed for the public at large to see. The purchase, the loans, the high % dividends, no value in the market, stating false figures, comedic transfers and negotiations.

It’s been great to see Gary Neville finally air his grievances regarding Woodward and the Glazers. There is a fair amount of vindication in these events as a long time fan, which I’m sure other United fans would agree with. These past few days have been difficult to separate the owners from the club, first time I have ever actually flat out disliked Manchester United.

 

[dcmk7]

You can't make diving dissapear, it's just the way it is. Moralwise people can reeee about it all they want, but gamewise it's not that big of a problem.

Excessive fouls on the other hand, completely destroy the game in it's entirety.



Yeah, could you imagine a big game being screwed by a referee decision?

Thank God in football that never happens.

Glad you quite get it.



Nice strawman.

Carles Puyol was one of the players who indulged more in tackles and physicality that I have ever seen, but also the cleanest defender I have ever seen. He was capable of playing a lot of consecutive games without doing a single foul.

The notion that you have to foul to tackle is stupid. But it's also stupid the notion that by punishing fouls, fouls and tackles will cease to exist. That's like believing that punishing fouls in the area as penalties will make players don't commit penalties anymore.

This was a play inside the area the other day.

Thank God we have VAR to call the penalty, right?

Ask Getafe fans about it.



So penalties are now artificial goals.

The games in which a foul is called every minute of actual playing are artificial games then?

Not surprised you missed the point.

It will discourage tackling and promote diving. It's so simple. Every attempt to justify has become more and more laughable.

If you are rewarded a penalty & subsequently score from it after say; 3 offsides, a foul throw and 6 regular fouls in the game then that is an artificial goal. You haven't unpicked a defense, scored from a well worked set piece or capitalised on a mistake or a sublime bit of skill.

Scored because a striker was offside one time too many, potentially.

To see that potentially deciding a big game would be a traversy.

And bringing in Charles Puyol, you're really reaching now, he was part of a team that enjoyed 70% possession most games.. hardly surprising he never fouled, the defense and goalkeeper never used to get tested. Since Xavi and Iniesta used to pass between themselves 400 times a game.

 

[ForAcademicPurposes]

JP Morgan when Real Madrid shows up for their 3.5bn $

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Couldn't give a shit who is playing, I'd happily watch all those games. They've earned the right to be there. None of this gate-keeping "we're the elite" bullshit.

What's the point of constant glamour ties. How dull.

If you think only games between traditional large teams are worth watching then you are missing out, they play just as many, if not more, boring games in clashes if you ask me. Well, unless all you care is watching Messi walking around.

I love sports. I will gladly watch Rennes v Krosnodor, but then again, I gladly watched Reyer Venezia v KSC Szekszard (Women's EuroCup Semifinals - damned good game too) and Chicago Machine v Seattle Sockeye. But for people that aren't us, those matchups mostly only appeal to those particular teams' fans.

If it's like hockey, the schtick will wear out. Global tournaments, the outdoor game in winter are all great when done here and there. But when done too often, the excitement wears off and people focus back on traditional league play.

Clearly there is a spectrum between the Red Sox/Yankees matchup that happens about 42 times a season and Chelsea v Real Madrid which has happened all of 3 times. Ever.

So supporters of those clubs should just go and fuck themselves?

Read the thread splinter I was responding to. I was responding to the claim that the Champion's League was "the best playing against the best on a consistent basis."

The matchups I cited were not remotely "the best playing against the best." Of course the fans of those teams shouldn't fuck themselves - I never said they should - but they should recognize, like Arsenal, Milan, and Tottenham fans, that they're hardly "the best."

 

[Jon Neu]

It will discourage tackling and promote diving. It's so simple.

It isn't, but I understand you coming up with that conclusion.

If you are rewarded a penalty & subsequently score from it after say; 3 offsides, a foul throw and 6 regular fouls in the game then that is an artificial goal. You haven't unpicked a defense, scored from a well worked set piece or capitalised on a mistake or a sublime bit of skill.

So you believe free throws are artificial points?

If the rules say once you reach 10 fouls there's a penalty and still you manage to make the team foul you 10 times, that's the very literal definition of earning that penalty. In the same way than a foul inside the area is a penalty.

That's the point of the rule, right now teams can get away free from fouling (cheating) all the time.

And bringing in Charles Puyol, you're really reaching now, he was part of a team that enjoyed 70% possession most games.. hardly surprising he never fouled, the defense and goalkeeper never used to get tested.

Sir Charles Puyol from North London.

Your ignorance on the matter is astonishing. Carles Puyol started to play in Barça in the Gaspart/Van Gaal era, an era which is regarded by many as the worst era in the history of the club, an era in which the team was absolute shit.

And being a defender in Barça it's much harder than any other team precisely because Barça attacks all the time and when the other team counterattacks, they have a lot of space to run free and Barça defenders are alone because everybody else is in attacking positions.

This were the type of plays in which Barça found itself in all the time.

Everybody can play in a team with a more defensive mindset that simply accumulates players behind and doesn't take risks, that's super easy. But being the defender in a team in which you are going to find yourself outnumbered by the attackers instead of the other way around and they are going to have vast spaces to play fast and easy, that's what separates a normal defender from a legendary defender like Puyol.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Goodbye super league

 

[Great Hair]

JP Morgan when Real Madrid shows up for their 3.5bn $

 

[lyan]

I love sports. I will gladly watch Rennes v Krosnodor, but then again, I gladly watched Reyer Venezia v KSC Szekszard (Women's EuroCup Semifinals - damned good game too) and Chicago Machine v Seattle Sockeye. But for people that aren't us, those matchups mostly only appeal to those particular teams' fans.

Thing is the ESL will drastically reduce the number of strong vs weak match-ups that are enjoyed by plenty of foreign supporters as well. People love seeing their rival teams get crushed by the underdog, these moments will inevitably happen a lot less when the focus is to make big teams play each other more often and in the long run damages the popularity of the sport as things go stale.

I don't believe people who would only be interested in the super big teams playing each other are going to sit through a big match every week, it's the significance behind the match that matters. There are probably a billion viewers who can only name Mbappe and Griezmann on the pitch in the last World Cup final but that didn't stopped them from tuning in. Conversely, these people aren't going to care more if the likes of United v Liverpool, Barca v Real, Inter v AC Milan happens every single week for 6 months straight, in fact it would probably bore even the enthusiasts.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I think Neville is right. Those guys are criminals.

They're essentially looking for a sneaky way to end a partnership during a global pandemic, using this as an excuse. All they want is more money, a guaranteed entry fee each year the other clubs don't get. Because CL isn't guaranteed, Liverpool and Spurs likely won't even qualify this year. This is fraudulent. Because you have an advantage every season, no matter how bad you do. These guys don't give a single fuck about the sport, about the fans. We knew with the Glazers. But the sickening fact is that all of these fuckfaces actually tried to create something as a squad, showing their true colors.

The irony though is that its not going to work. What happens is that those clubs have more to spend, offload their players for even higher transfer fees than usual, who in return ask for higher salary. If Raiola knows that those clubs have like a half a billion more in cash, he's going to suck it dry.

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

All be best friends by the beginning of the next season and they’ll be out with their begging bowls asking for 1.7 billion a season for the next lot of television rights.

Sky, Amazon, BT and BBC need to join up and say ‘nah, next 3 years we’ll pay the same as the last 3 years’ but they won’t they’ll bend over backwards to accommodate.

 

[West Texas CEO]

Madrid didn't turn a profit last year and is probably losing its CL paycheck this year, plus the hit from not having fans. I can see how Flo is desperate to clean up up the mess he let Zidane make with the clubs immediate future but this is loony tunes way to avoid accountability.

Anyway to roll back that decision not to have an election.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

-Portugal 10 millions.

-Catalonia 7,5 millions.

Barça ain’t Bilbao and you know it, the Masía houses young players born all over Spain as well and occasionally players born in other countries (certain Argentinian comes to mind).

Of course most of them are born in Catalonia, sure, but pretending the club only trains and raises players born in the same region is disingenuous.

 

[YCoCg]

 

[Banjo64]

A day for football.

 

[DonJorginho]

 

[SkylineRKR]

Madrid didn't turn a profit last year and is probably losing its CL paycheck this year, plus the hit from not having fans. I can see how Flo is desperate to clean up up the mess he let Zidane make with the clubs immediate future but this is loony tunes way to avoid accountability.

Anyway to roll back that decision not to have an election.

Its a fundemental problem that these clubs operate on chance. They're signing ridiculous contracts because they expect CL money. Though Real is a mainstay and record winner, there is the off chance they're not going to qualify. Liverpool isn't going to qualify. AC Milan didn't qualify. United didn't qualify an awful lot over the last 10 years. Arsenal probably forgot what the CL even is. This way was a surefire way of that income, or even more. Over the backs of other teams competing in the same domestic leagues. They should revise their salary households and overall spending first and foremost.

 

[West Texas CEO]

Its a fundamental problem that these clubs operate on chance. They're signing ridiculous contracts because they expect CL money. Though Real is a mainstay and record winner, there is the off chance they're not going to qualify. Liverpool isn't going to qualify. AC Milan didn't qualify. United didn't qualify an awful lot over the last 10 years. Arsenal probably forgot what the CL even is. This way was a surefire way of that income, or even more. Over the backs of other teams competing in the same domestic leagues. They should revise their salary households and overall spending first and foremost.

I don't blame the players/staff, though, as this is all on the owners, but it will be hard to look at Arsenal the same way again.

As we have all said in this thread, the only thing people in power in football care about, is money...that's why one side wanted this to happen and the other side didn't, nobody overly cares about us fans.

I made some jokes about wanting this to happen, but that was only because of how ridiculous hypocrites Sky/Premier League/UEFA etc, were being over this...this would have killed football, and killed my interest in it.

It's "good" that all the clubs listened to the pressure to suspend this thought (key word is suspend, they haven't stopped wanting to do it, they will just try it a different and much more sneaky way in the future) but until everyone on our board leaves this club, that apology tweet means nothing to me tbh...none of the clubs deserve any praise, they are all massive greedy scumbags, regardless of "seeing sense in the end", uhhh.

Do I think they will leave the clubs...do I think football will change for the better...I certainly hope so.

But everyone knew money was the be all and end all of football now, but having it shoved in our faces these past few days, has left a mark on the club...a mark that will never go away, imo.

 

[INC]

At least the yanks mind of made football interesting to watch

Like prison rules or something, anything to make football entertaining

 

[Alright]

Is there any chance that this is was ploy by the Europeans in an attempt to destabilise EPL?

 

[DonJorginho]

Is there any chance that this is was ploy by the Europeans in an attempt to destabilise EPL?

More an attempt from the big clubs to get a nicer deal with UEFA, which they seem to be getting now with the new amendments to FFP coming soon as well as the UEFA merger deal with Centricus.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Atlético bailed out.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Could be a ploy. UEFA did bend over after all, after all their harsh words and threats. Make no mistake, UEFA are crooks too. They apparently had the budget ready, likely wouldn't cash it out if there hadn't been such an uprising.

The worst thing I think is that those investors tried to do it in the middle of a global pandemic and use that as an excuse. Its pure greed, and its bad.

 

[Porcile]

 

[Porcile]

SKY SPORTS BREAKING NEWS BOYS AND GIRLS!!

JEF UTD are out. The owner Jeff Keighley apologising right now!

 

[Bo_Hazem]

 

[Ballthyrm]

The problem with the diving is due to a few key things:

1. It's part of the game and tolerated

2. Virtually zero repercussions for diving. Even the biggest soccer fan I'm sure has seen almost no penalty for divers. So it's a no lose situation. You might as well try it. At worst the ref says no call and get up

3. The game clock keeps ticking. So best way to kill time is to fake an injury. Other sports have time stopped, so trying to kill time doesn't make sense. Someone will say, but a ref will just add injury time so it's a wash. There is no way refs adding a few minutes here and there equals players lying on the ground.

Time added is totally subjective. I have never seen a ref call the game over when a team has the ball deep in the zone with a scoring chance. The ref waits for a team to clear the ball to mid field or something, then the ref calls the game over

Yeah...

They should give a straight red for diving. And the other team captain should have video challenge.
Video challenge in general should be added to Football.

As for the clock. Not sure if we need to stop it.
The games are long enough as they are.

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

As predicted they’re all out with their ‘we’re sorry’ bollocks.

 

[Majukun]

reaction from those pseudo fans that saw their dream of bullying the rest of football for all eternity vanish in 48h it's all kind of hilarious

"we were gonna make a shitton of money and keep you in the dust, why were you not happy for us?"
"look, uefa also makes money, so our disgusting money scheme was not so bad right?"

and so on and so forth

 

[Jon Neu]

Barça ain’t Bilbao and you know it, the Masía houses young players born all over Spain as well and occasionally players born in other countries (certain Argentinian comes to mind).

Of course most of them are born in Catalonia, sure, but pretending the club only trains and raises players born in the same region is disingenuous.

Bilbao isn't that team that takes french, venezuelan or spanish players and tries to make them pass for basque players?

And nobody said La Masia only has catalan players, but most of them are.

 

[Jon Neu]

More an attempt from the big clubs to get a nicer deal with UEFA, which they seem to be getting now with the new amendments to FFP coming soon as well as the UEFA merger deal with Centricus.

Make no mistake, UEFA and FIFA panicked enough to understand they can't keep ignoring the big teams if they want to still be filthy rich profiting from those teams.

This time the Superleague has failed, probably because most fans of the big teams still don't realize yet that their beloved teams are in actual danger, but that realization can come at any given moment and teams can try it again at any given time if they see fans are on board. But now UEFA and FIFA have realized teams weren't playing around, this can actually happen for real and they know they have no power to stop it, because you can't prevent people from forming a league if you aren't from some place like Qatar or something.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

And nobody said La Masia only has catalan players,

You sort of implied

 

[Jon Neu]

A day for football.

Imagine showing the images of two clubs with financial doping coming from moguls out of dictatorships as the win of the people

 

[Prison Mike]

Imagine showing the images of two clubs with financial doping coming from moguls out of dictatorships as the win of the people

I see your tag suits you.

 

[Great Hair]

UPDATE 1-Soccer-PSG president Al-Khelaifi replaces Juve's Agnelli as ECA chairman

 

[Banjo64]

Imagine showing the images of two clubs with financial doping coming from moguls out of dictatorships as the win of the people

Show me a successful club without a financial injection at one point in their 150 year history.

 

[Jon Neu]

I see your tag suits you.

I'm not sure which of the statements has triggered you enough to the point of believing is false.

The financial doping? Pretty much a fact that Chelsea and City are not even close to generate by themselves the money they have spent under their new owners rule and that a great part of it comes from such owners.

The moguls out of dictatorships? Maybe you think Russia and the United Arab Emirates are democracies, but they aren't and human rights are heavily violated in those countries.

 

[Prison Mike]

I'm not sure which of the statements has triggered you enough to the point of believing is false.

The financial doping? Pretty much a fact that Chelsea and City are not even close to generate by themselves the money they have spent under their new owners rule and that a great part of it comes from such owners.

The moguls out of dictatorships? Maybe you think Russia and the United Arab Emirates are democracies, but they aren't and human rights are heavily violated in those countries.

Lets delve into barcas past

 

[DonJorginho]

Imagine showing the images of two clubs with financial doping coming from moguls out of dictatorships as the win of the people

The two clubs that started the domino effect of the fall of the super league, fitting pictures I feel.

UP THE CHELS!

 

[Jon Neu]

So you know what I said is true, ok.

Lets delve into barcas past

Feel free.

 

[Prison Mike]

So you know what I said is true, ok.



Feel free.

How much debt are you in again?

 

[Jon Neu]

How much debt are you in again?

What a dissapointment, I thought you were going to come up with some obscure thing.

Yes, we are in debt. We don't have the luxury of having a mogul from a dictatorship to pay our debts.

 

[T8SC]

The fallout from this has been spectacular. This is what happens when greed gets the better of you but the common good prevails overall.

 

[Kenpachii]

I don't see the issue. football has already been destroyed for a while now. It was a sport for the poor, now its just a rich club organisation. And guess what more rich people eat the less rich.

 

[DKehoe]

What a dissapointment, I thought you were going to come up with some obscure thing.

Yes, we are in debt. We don't have the luxury of having a mogul from a dictatorship to pay our debts.

Does Laporta maybe also have a brother who beat someone using a board with a nail in it, stuck a cattle prod up their ass and set them on fire?

 

[Prison Mike]

Does Laporta maybe also have a brother who beat someone using a board with a nail in it, stuck a cattle prod up their ass and set them on fire?

Cousin i think