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[MosquitoSmasher]

You can say what you want about the first Watch_Dogs, but you can't ever claim that the pedestrians and their behaviors wasn't quite impressive. I love that other company that makes superb open world games with attention to the smallest of details, Rockstar Games, but in terms of how realistic pedestrians are, even the first WD took that crown from GTA V in my opinion. Only in regards to that aspect because man...was WD a big disappointment.

But i have to give Ubi two thumbs up for WD2, because not only is it a huge improvement over the first one, pretty much correcting every mistake from the first one and actually being goddamned fun, it even managed to bring a rather crazy improvement over the already impressive pedestrian variety and behavior. In this thread i just want to give examples of these pedestrians and how it really makes that game world feel alive and yes....immersive. As much as i love GTA V and RDR, Ubi has nailed it with WD2 and i seriously hope Rockstar looked at this for RDR2 and in the future for GTA VI.

So while WD2 is a great game and i'm enjoying it immensely because of fun missions, for me interesting and likeable characters (not all) and more. But again, what truly shines are the pedestrians and their behavior. I didn't read many reviews of the game but i hope some gave it the well deserved praise because i haven't seen it done this good in any other games yet. I love the insane little attention to details in games and man i got that here:

While on a mission or just exploring around a little i saw:

- Two guys on the street fighting, one being overly agressive and a bystander saying : ''Bath salts? Hey everyone it's the walking dead''

- A dude trying to steal another guy's phone, failed and then ran away.

- Two women. Clearly lovers, one was on the phone and it was about some real bad news, after that phone call the other women assured her everything would be alright and that she could live with her.

- Tourists actually speaking their own language. I saw this at the boulevard, or at Alcatraz where tourists were getting a tour of the place. All dressed like tourists too.

- A couple on a bench holding eachother, another couple hand in hand looking over the sea. Another couple was kissing and a guy on a beach putting sun oil on women.

- Dude blows his nose, and again and goes ''ewwww...again?''

- Pedestrians talking to eachother about actual problems like AIDS and how we could maybe defeat it.

- Conversations about gay people and prejudice against it, conversations about lots and lots of different things and again not like GTA V where one ped would say something interesting and the reply they always get is ''whatever''.

- I saw one person meeting another, they clearly knew eachother and they made an appointment.

- I saw a few homeless people, one was playing guitar and the others sit around. Also saw a few homeless folk fighting.

- If the player makes a selfie or before making one, you get different reactions from peds. Some love it, some hate it and will walk away disgusted. Even had one dude photobombing.

- Woman taking a picture of two dudes and then all three take a look at the photo and discuss it.

- Saw a guy reading the paper while he was having a coffee, other dude was busy on his phone while sitting on a stone structure. People eating icecream or a sandwich.

- Dude selling flowers to people on the street, making hilarious comments about why you would want to buy his flowers for your lady and so on.

- At this park i saw a couple getting married.

- A car thief steals a car, cop car happens to be near and gives chase right away.

- Someone cleaning windows.

- Homeless guy looking in trashcans

- Couple arguing on the street, woman keeps telling the man he only wants to hit her and soon he actually smacks her .

- Woman smashes car while making comments about her partner, i assume he cheated on her, lol.

- People in park relaxing with their dog or playing with him/her. Or sitting on the bench playing guitar or another intstrument which seemed asian to me, really neat stuff.

- Saw a guy building all kinds of shapes from stones near a beach.

I haven't finished the story yet and still to this day i see new kind of behaviors. And when not talking about pedestrians there are also awesome little details like how leaves on a car fall off when you drive away. Market stands selling certain kind of clothing that don't belong to the clothing stores, basically those ''i love San Francisco'' kinda shirts. The many different interiors you can access and so on. After all that i really hope Rockstar, Bethesda Game Studios, CDPR knocks it out of the park for their next games because WD2 shows how important pedestrians are to making a game world feel alive and lived in.

 

[jrush64]

The pedestrians were definitely great no doubt. I hated WD1 with a passion but enjoyed WD2. Just finished it yesterday actually. The final mission was a piece of shit though.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

Issue for me that most of these seem to be crafted and not dynamic ai and choices. That's what these games and ai in general need to create new gameplay experiences

 

[Catdaddy]

Yeah - great game, enjoyed the NPCs as well. The NPCs in the first game always annoyed me, with the constant "look out he's a maniac" when driving around (and not even near a sidewalk)

 

[Freeman76]

Issue for me that most of these seem to be crafted and not dynamic ai and choices. That's what these games and ai in general need to create new gameplay experiences

Maybe in the year 2179 your dreams may be a reality.

 

[Deeke[VRZ]]

Ubi has definitely stepped up their NPC game with some really next-gen NPC interactions. I really felt like I was in a world of actual people (well, people in that crazy universe). Even the dogs are awesome.

I have great hope for AC: Origins' NPCs now.

 

[Comrade Crunch]

I still think GTAV is a little better in this regard, but W2 is the closest any game has ever come to matching GTAs pedestrians.

 

[Deeke[VRZ]]

Maybe in the year 2179 your dreams may be a reality.

Cyberpunk 2077 should deliver. CDPR is putting massive effort into dynamic AI and "living breathing cities".

 

[Drillary Clinton]

The pedestrians were definitely great no doubt. I hated WD1 with a passion but enjoyed WD2. Just finished it yesterday actually. The final mission was a piece of shit though.

Man that final mission was such a tonal shift. The hell were they thinking? Like they just dug themselves into a hole and didn't know how to wrap the game up.

 

[erotic grandpa]

Agreed, but I also got kinda tired of seeing the same argument break out between random couples where the guy slugs his lady counterpart. Eventually I would immediately bump into them or set their phones off whenever I heard "I slept with him, OK? There, I said it!" or whatever pop up.

The people going to town smashing cars never got old, though.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

I still think GTAV is a little better in this regard, but W2 is the closest any game has ever come to matching GTAs pedestrians.

I really wonder why you say that, because GTA V doesn't nearly have as much interesting peds as WD2 when it comes to variety of that behavior and how they act towards you or others. In GTA V you have people walking around and calling, but the phonecall never really seems to go anywhere or people talking to eachother on the street never seems believable when the other person never actually responds to it. But i'm genuinely interested on why you think so.

Also there are many more i am not mentioning now. They actually even have those people that sit in a corner inside a bush and scare people. You got Youtube videos of that person in real life. There is so much here. And yeah, i SO hope the new AC get's that kind of attention to pedestrians too.

 

[Certinty]

Great thread, I think in terms of pedestrians Watch Dogs 2 beats GTA V. Actually thinking of it now it's not even close. Even the first Watch Dogs game had more memorable pedestrian activities than GTA V. I remember a woman on her balcony throwing her cheating husband his suitcase screaming at him while others watched.

As for Watch Dogs 2 I remember casually walking down the bay and this pedestrian was taking a picture of his girlfriend with the Golden Gate bridge in the background. Then after that he went up to her and took a selfie of them both with the bridge in the background.

Just the little stuff which makes the world feel alive and Ubisoft did an amazing job with that.

 

[CopperPuppy]

I still think GTAV is a little better in this regard, but W2 is the closest any game has ever come to matching GTAs pedestrians.

What? I love GTAV, but I don't know how anyone can say this. Its pedestrians don't even come close. Which makes complete sense, as they're constrained by old tech.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

Maybe in the year 2179 your dreams may be a reality.

Doubt it takes that long to get sone procedurally generated ai that does some new things.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

Great thread, I actually think in terms of pedestrians Watch Dogs 2 beats GTA V.

I remember I was casually walking down the bay and this pedestrian was taking a picture of his girlfriend with the Golden Gate bridge in the background. Then after that he went up to her and took a selfie of them both with the bridge in the background.

Just the little stuff which makes the world feel alive and Ubisoft did an amazing job with that.

Absolutely man. Look Rockstar is still the best (in my book) when it comes to driving mechanics, because man....it's fun i guess in WD2 in cockpit view but overall GTA V kills it in that regard. Same can be said about the shooting mechanics and perhaps the humor as well. But when it comes to pedestrians, yup....i'd say Ubi is on another level. I can actually have a great time just exploring in WD2, looking at what these peds do and it won't soon get boring whereas in GTA V you've seen it all after a while.

Both Ubi and Rockstar can learn from eachother when it comes to several things and if RDR2 can even remotely have this kind of detail when it comes to peds i will be very happy. This is one of the things that completes a game and shows you actually how much love went into the project. Do we know if WD2 people are behind the new AC now?

 

[Panda In Space]

Sleeping Dog's pedestrian is pretty awesome.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

Sleeping Dog's pedestrian is pretty awesome.

Man i want a new SD

5 months ago i made a similar thread on Reddit about this, i hadn't seen nearly as much peds as i have now but someone replied and gave another really awesome example:


In another instance, a woman was in a park playing her guitar, some dude walked up and told her that she sucked, and I swear it was like a record scratched with how sudden she stopped playing. She punched him in the face (and I helped her).

Then as I was exploring the outskirts of San Francisco, I ran into a small group of people gathered together around a campfire. Each of their bios pieced together a story about who they were and why they were gathered: a retired veteran who makes 18k a year, a former student who owed more than 10k in loans, a disabled individial who's been priced out of their apartment.

 

[Comrade Crunch]

I really wonder why you say that, because GTA V doesn't nearly have as much interesting peds as WD2 when it comes to variety of that behavior and how they act towards you or others. In GTA V you have people walking around and calling, but the phonecall never really seems to go anywhere or people talking to eachother on the street never seems believable when the other person never actually responds to it. But i'm genuinely interested on why you think so.

It's all about reactivity to events in the world for me.

If you see a small parking spot, pedestrians in cars will actually parallel park.

When it starts raining, peds will cover their heads and duck under awnings.

People will play games of tennis and actually comment on the state of the game.

Stuff like that puts it above other games for me.

I've also seen full on conversations between peds in GTAV, so I don't know about that "not responding" stuff.

 

[Infinite_Daremo]

Cyberpunk 2077 should deliver. CDPR is putting massive effort into dynamic AI and "living breathing cities".

Not a chance it comes close to anything outside of a 9-5 cycle. The processing power required to process every NPC's thought, feelings and behaviour for every reaction they have with another NPC is unrealistic, doing this alongside rendering and updating a game frame to frame just isn't possible. At best you're gonna have critical NPC's change behaviour trees based on critical decisions you make.

 

[The Faceless Master]

i still remember in Saint's Row 2, this one time i saw a pedestrian commit suicide.

i don't remember what he said exactly before he jumped, but he was upset with life and the world etc...

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

It's all about reactivity to events in the world for me.

If you see a small parking spot, pedestrians in cars will actually parallel park.

When it starts raining, peds will cover their heads and duck under awnings.

People will play games of tennis and actually comment on the state of the game.

Stuff like that puts it above other games for me.

I've also seen full on conversations between peds in GTAV, so I don't know about that "not responding" stuff.

Hmmm that's interesting. I've done tons of exploration in V and i saw a group of people and one guy was saying something significant and i was curious about the reply and pretty much each time it would be ''yeah ok...'' '' whatever'' and never a true reply that continues the conversation.

 

[Madness]

I've always felt that dynamic elements are what make open world games feel alive. Look how great RDR and GTA V were because random crimes would happen. You could be driving near that state forest and come across that No Country for Old Men style scene etc. And only once they were all done did it feel stale. But imagine they could update or add new things in and keep it fresh.

In Mass Effect, I love how sometimes NPC's make reference to things you have just done. I want to see more things like that. I do agree Watch Dogs 2 had great dynamic moments from NPC's. Can't wait to see RDR2 as well. I think greater power with Scorpio and PS4 Pro being the norm soon, along with increasing intelligence of AI, we can see great things.

 

[Aangster]

The injection of interaction and personality amongst NPCs contributes to a lively open world setting; NPC behaviour in moments and routines outside the player's input. I think both Saints Row 2 and Watch Dogs 2 accomplished this well.

 

[feint_ruled]

Not a chance it comes close to anything outside of a 9-5 cycle. The processing power required to process every NPC's thought, feelings and behaviour for every reaction they have with another NPC is unrealistic.

They won't be doing anything like that I'm sure. It will be probabilistic, based on time of day and location. NPC interactions will just kick off one of a library of pre-canned interactions. You can still do a lot of amazing stuff with smoke and mirrors.

 

[PiFace]

Cyberpunk 2077 should deliver. CDPR is putting massive effort into dynamic AI and "living breathing cities".

People always make such a claim, then players eat it up and get disappointed. It might be wise to wait and see before claiming with certainty the way you are doing.

 

[captainnapalm]

I hate WD's approach to pedestrians. Having little scenes play out is all well and good - until you see them for the fifth time. Then it just totally breaks immersion. Also I hate how they use what sound like a bunch of middle-aged Canadians to do the voices for just about everyone in their games which are set in American cities.

GTA is much better. Pedestrians really feel random. And you can walk up to some random person and talk to them and they'll sometimes launch into these long conversations. Skater dude by the skatepark will start going off about the latest trick he pulled off. Business woman starts talking about her job. So much better than Watch Dogs.

 

[Alienous]

I've wondered why more games don't attempt vignettes.

If you animated and voiced 100 events, kept them in a list, triggered one randomly when the player meets some requirement (i.e. is in the vicinity of a couple) then took it off of the list, or reduced its likelihood of occurring, a lot of open world games would feel more dynamic.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Admit it OP...you walked right up to the couple kissing on the beach and beat them up.

 

[singhr1]

Doubt it takes that long to get sone procedurally generated ai that does some new things.

But having specific voice interactions for them like actual people in the the real world do to make them meaningful?

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

I've always felt that dynamic elements are what make open world games feel alive. Look how great RDR and GTA V were because random crimes would happen. You could be driving near that state forest and come across that No Country for Old Men style scene etc. And only once they were all done did it feel stale. But imagine they could update or add new things in and keep it fresh.

In Mass Effect, I love how sometimes NPC's make reference to things you have just done. I want to see more things like that. I do agree Watch Dogs 2 had great dynamic moments from NPC's. Can't wait to see RDR2 as well. I think greater power with Scorpio and PS4 Pro being the norm soon, along with increasing intelligence of AI, we can see great things.

Good point there. Rockstar already had to remove or tone down certain things which probably was because of the hardware i assume. Things like how we couldn't even access a single Burger Shot pr Cluckin bells, how there were hot dog stands but you couldn't buy one, was there even a guy selling them at all? I recall reading the reason the physics aren't nearly as great as IV was because of downgraded Euphoria or something, all kinds of things. Sadly V was a downgrade from IV when it comes to certain crazy little details IV did have and for some odd reason not in V.

It's quite exciting thinking about what Rockstar could be doing now with the power of these new consoles, for damn sure. Should be a huge improvement over GTA V as well.

Admit it OP...you walked right up to the couple kissing on the beach and beat them up.

Haha actually man, i did do that with many other people but for them i made a selfie with Marcus having a ''look at me acting cool''gesture and the couple did not like it one bit, wanted me to leave, haha.

 

[SomTervo]

Issue for me that most of these seem to be crafted and not dynamic ai and choices. That's what these games and ai in general need to create new gameplay experiences

There are times when the AI's routines bounce off each other, but yeah, at some point they have to be scripted, literally.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

I hate WD's approach to pedestrians. Having little scenes play out is all well and good - until you see them for the fifth time. Then it just totally breaks immersion. Also I hate how they use what sound like a bunch of middle-aged Canadians to do the voices for just about everyone in their games which are set in American cities.

GTA is much better. Pedestrians really feel random. And you can walk up to some random person and talk to them and they'll sometimes launch into these long conversations. Skater dude by the skatepark will start going off about the latest trick he pulled off. Business woman starts talking about her job. So much better than Watch Dogs.

But that's the thing, eventually you will see it being repeated. I mean it can't exactly be infinite, can it? Rockstar surely will have that problem as well. Hell they already had it with RDR i guess when i saw a guy wanting to knife a lady in Armadillo for a second time, if i'm not mistaken.

If we were to make a list of this, WD2 would come out on top. In almost every place i visited i saw something cool and new and that makes that game world all the more interesting too. But naturally at some point are you going to see repeats.

 

[Flipyap]

They've made a whole lot of animations and voice lines, which is nice (and expected in games of this size), but there's nothing special about their behaviors. Especially since all the cutesy canned scenes fall apart if you as much as take out your phone in their vicinity. Granted, sometimes they do break with hilarious results (usually involving couples who forget that they ever knew each other walking away or getting into fights).
They work fine as long as the player doesn't invade their bubble, which kinda defeats the purpose. You can't even park your car without everyone on the street freaking out. Their AI doesn't compare favorably to GTA IV or V. It's not even close.

 

[Masterspeed]

Their dynamic AI was terrible, where if i got too close with the camera they'd stop completely what they were doing, even if they were fighting just to flip me off and swear.

 

[Tigress]

But that's the thing, eventually you will see it being repeated. I mean it can't exactly be infinite, can it? Rockstar surely will have that problem as well. Hell they already had it with RDR i guess when i saw a guy wanting to knife a lady in Armadillo for a second time, if i'm not mistaken.

If we were to make a list of this, WD2 would come out on top. In almost every place i visited i saw something cool and new and that makes that game world all the more interesting too. But naturally at some point are you going to see repeats.

I dunno. gta is probably the one game I put more hours into than any Bethesda game and I still get surprised by what the pedestrians will do. They seem less scripted and more programmed.

 

[SomTervo]

Doubt it takes that long to get sone procedurally generated ai that does some new things.

Dude, procedurally generated AI? Come on now. That literally doesn't exist in the present.

 

[captainnapalm]

But that's the thing, eventually you will see it being repeated. I mean it can't exactly be infinite, can it? Rockstar surely will have that problem as well. Hell they already had it with RDR i guess when i saw a guy wanting to knife a lady in Armadillo for a second time, if i'm not mistaken.

If we were to make a list of this, WD2 would come out on top. In almost every place i visited i saw something cool and new and that makes that game world all the more interesting too. But naturally at some point are you going to see repeats.

WD2 wasn't as bad as WD1 in that regard, but it still got very repetitive. There was one scene in particular where an angry woman smashes up her husband's car. I did eventually start taking her out because I couldn't listen to that shit anymore. Also the couple arguing. I would break up their little spat.

 

[Infinite_Daremo]

They won't be doing anything like that I'm sure. It will be probabilistic, based on time of day and location. NPC interactions will just kick off one of a library of pre-canned interactions. You can still do a lot of amazing stuff with smoke and mirrors.

Theres nothing new or exciting there though. Just pre-scripted behaviour, nothing dynamic. Im not knocking it, NPC's are mere screen fodder to fill the void for me and them varying their behaviour is all good. But that guy expecting big things from NPC AI will be in for a massive disappointment.

 

[SomTervo]

Theres nothing new or exciting there though. Just pre-scripted behaviour, nothing dynamic. Im not knocking it, NPC's are mere screen fodder to fill the void for me and them varying their behaviour is all good. But that guy expecting big things from NPC AI will be in for a massive disappointment.

It's well designed though. The scripted routines are detailed enough, there are enough of them, and they're placed well enough that it creates a fun and lovely gameplay experience.

Things don't have to be "new and exciting" to make for a good, fun experience.

 

[Raven77]

But that's the thing, eventually you will see it being repeated. I mean it can't exactly be infinite, can it? Rockstar surely will have that problem as well. Hell they already had it with RDR i guess when i saw a guy wanting to knife a lady in Armadillo for a second time, if i'm not mistaken.

If we were to make a list of this, WD2 would come out on top. In almost every place i visited i saw something cool and new and that makes that game world all the more interesting too. But naturally at some point are you going to see repeats.

But it can at least appear nearly infinite, that is what procedural animation does at least. R* uses Euphoria for this to generate random animations based on the npc or players location and proximity to certain objects. I'm not sure how the tech works but it at least helps to make things like animation appear randomized and dependent on surrounding objects, etc.

http://rockstargames.wikia.com/wiki/Euphoria

This wouldn't work to make anything story related but if you have npc's designated as "homeless" and they are supposed to randomly check trashcans, one of them could, theoretically, fall down a set of stairs based on this animation system and it would be unscripted. Maybe he then tumbles into someone below riding past on a bike, who then swerves into the street and gets hit by a car. The power of this animation system is pretty awesome.

R* creates the systems for the scenes to create themselves, Ubi created scenes to be viewed in certain situations. Big difference.

 

[ODDI]

Not just Watch Dogs but other open world games Ubisoft put out they really have set the bar high in that regard. Rockstar maaaaaan they were warm for GTA IV peds and hot RDR peds but GTA V is a huge step down. they say nothing interesting they do nothing interesting at least the dialogue was funny in IV but in V it's the same old "f*ck me in the ass* and as minor as it is, it really hurts the beautiful game world they created.

 

[Herne]

- Two guys on the street fighting, one being overly agressive and a bystander saying : ''Bath salts? Hey everyone it's the walking dead''

What does this even mean?

 

[Alienfan]

I think I prefer GTA's solution of using lots of very small voice clips, it make the pedestrians feel a lot more random than having 50 or so long exchanges of dialogue, that often end up repeating.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

What does this even mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_salts_(drug)

There have been videos on the internet showing people going absolutely bonkers, violence etc , presumable due to that.

But it can at least appear nearly infinite, that is what procedural animation does at least. R* uses Euphoria for this to generate random animations based on the npc or players location and proximity to certain objects. I'm not sure how the tech works but it at least helps to make things like animation appear randomized and dependent on surrounding objects, etc.

http://rockstargames.wikia.com/wiki/Euphoria



This wouldn't work to make anything story related but if you have npc's designated as "homeless" and they are supposed to randomly check trashcans, one of them could, theoretically, fall down a set of stairs based on this animation system and it would be unscripted. Maybe he then tumbles into someone below riding past on a bike, who then swerves into the street and gets hit by a car. The power of this animation system is pretty awesome.

R* creates the systems for the scenes to create themselves, Ubi created scenes to be viewed in certain situations. Big difference.

That does sound awesome and yes Euphoria is fantastic. Still such a shame that Euphoria in V was a downgrade from IV for some reason. Hope we can expect some amazing stuff in RDR2.

Not just Watch Dogs but other open world games Ubisoft put out they really have set the bar high in that regard. Rockstar maaaaaan they were warm for GTA IV peds and hot RDR peds but GTA V is a huge step down. they say nothing interesting they do nothing interesting at least the dialogue was funny in IV but in V it's the same old "f*ck me in the ass* and as minor as it is, it really hurts the beautiful game world they created.

Yeah i agree. They felt like step down to me as well, going from IV to V.

 

[Bahorel]

Also you can pet the random sidewalk dogs which is very important.

Games where there are dogs you can't pet are insanely frustrating. You just run circles around them hoping they know you're there.

 

[John Kowalski]

I kept running into women screaming about how they screwed someone else to their boyfriend's face, it was amazing.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

Also you can pet the random sidewalk dogs which is very important.

Games where there are dogs you can't pet are insanely frustrating. You just run circles around them hoping they know you're there.

Yup that's cool stuff. I believe AC3 introduced this first for Ubi games. I'm definitely excited to see what we can expect next from Ubi's games but also games from Rockstar, BGS, CDPR.

 

[Rushersauce]

Yes. But at the same time:

I've run into pedestrians saying the same thing just meters from each other, and plenty of times.

I've yet to get run over by a car. They stop instantly when you run in front of them.

Just one NPC per car.

 

[TetraGenesis]

Also you can pet the random sidewalk dogs which is very important.

Games where there are dogs you can't pet are insanely frustrating. You just run circles around them hoping they know you're there.

It really spoke to the "politics" (in the general sense) of The Division that you could shoot dogs but not pet them. Watch Dogs 2 felt like an atonement in that regard, hahaha.

I do wonder if I'm missing something in Breath of the Wild: Can you actually pet the dogs? I know you can make friends with them and play with them, they're more interactive than in any other, uh, non-dog focused game, but I found it odd that I couldn't figure out how to pet them. Maybe I'm missing something. Or maybe it just wasn't worth animating in their minds, idk.