Ex-Insomniac dev throws his bosses under the bus over Rivet's design being too feminine.

TheGrat1 said:
I have not played the game so I can not speak for all of them but one of the suits have slight differences between the Lombaxes.
02_Galactic_Ranger.png

Rivet's suit has a wider (to take her hips into account) and thinner "belt" and a smaller codpiece.
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The eyebrows.

So stereotypical!
 
UnNamed said:
Problem with this people who find problems everywhere is they never have any solution, and solution proposed by others are usually wrong. They create problems but they are unable to solve problems. They usually force people to solve problems they create.

I imagine 100 years of Disney's animators to find ways to create different characters using few traits, then this guy arrives and say "It's wrong, it's a fox!". Ask him how to create a better feminine character and he would find an horrible solution or no solution at all. This people always overestimate themselves.
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We call those people 'problem announcers' in work. They like to point out existing problems loudly (that exist for complex, dependency based reasons), embellish them and then walk away from them.
 
I haven't read the hot takes in this thread but for me Ratchet looks male and Rivet looks female without both of them being sexualised. Like two little kids that didn't even reach puberty, signaling genders by facial features and societal grooming currents.

Can someone shed a light on why yanks as a culture seem to have a predisposition of filtering reality entirely through a sexual lense?
 
shoegaze said:
I haven't read the hot takes in this thread but for me Ratchet looks male and Rivet looks female without both of them being sexualised. Like two little kids that didn't even reach puberty, signaling genders by facial features and societal grooming currents.

Can someone shed a light on why yanks as a culture seem to have a predisposition of filtering reality entirely through a sexual lense?
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Read through this thread. Many have no issue with this. I for one 100% see his side of things and agree with many of his points. It's just the cowardly move of taking a private debate into a public forum that I think is being criticized. Then he takes it a step further and calls it hostile, then disingenuously places it in the context of sexual harassment. It's virtue signaling to the extreme.
 
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"I'm woke! Hey everyone I feel bad! I'm the bad guy! I left the company because I wanna do right by you guys!" "Here is my book on freelance rates"…

k
 
I agree the character have several female traits that can be traced back to humans and yes of course you can have an opinion about it and underline it with something more like you did now. You give examples and argue in a civil manner.
JumpMan1981 said:
His point is stupid though.

The games designers want to include a "female" lombax.
He insists that she shouldn't look feminine.
That's a pretty big contradiction.

Hilariously, the character ends up having an obvious feminine voice.
So design a female character without using any stereotypically feminine traits because that's "harmful".
Oh and if she is a lilac color and has a stereotypically feminine voice and mannerisms then that's totally 100% fine.
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What makes me react is the strong reaction with some that starts calling names and trying to ridicule the guy. I don't know how the discussion went and what the other side of the argument was saying when they were discussing the character design. I don't even know if the final character got changed or not. That's what I would want to know and from there you can have a discussion about it.

As I see it no one wants to remove gender all together just change the way we think about it. Avoiding proven stereotypes say girls don't need to be weak, don't need to have big breasts and be pretty just like boys don't need to be strong and know how to fix a car or how to assemble a computer. It's when the norm dictates how we portray characters and not the creative vision it ties into how we perceive gender. In the best of world we wouldn't need the discussion, you can be who you are regardless. Have blue hair or big breasts it doesn't matter as long as we don't expect it from someone.

That's what this is about - if someone came and said that the character model as we see it today needed to have bigger breasts and hips I would also have reacted with a question, why and think it was completely unnecessary. But now I don't know so I can't say more than that. The reactions in this thread is worrying though and it would be nice to be able to discuss it more in a sensible way.
 
mrBandoza said:
It only shows the world has a long way to go to create a equal society where girls/womans/people aren't judged based on their gender. That you are not willing to take responsibility, even having a civilised discussion about it is proof enough. Sad to see all name calling and bullying going on in this thread aimed at a person I guess you haven't even met. Just your reaction makes his point so more important. You need to be able to talk about these things regardless of how you feel about it or think what the world looks like.

Try to answer why his point that an alien fur ball needs to have more of a feminine look instead. You do nothing of that sort. Instead you stick your head in the sand and turn to name calling. If people could take these issues seriously and listen we wouldn't need this fired up debate.
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It only shows the world has a long way to go to create a equal society where girls/womans/people aren't judged based on their gender. That you are not willing to take responsibility, even having a civilised discussion about it is proof enough. Sad to see all name calling and bullying going on in this thread aimed at a person I guess you haven't even met. Just your reaction makes his point so more important. You need to be able to talk about these things regardless of how you feel about it or think what the world looks like.



Do the people on Twitter that go after any sign of "transphobia" engage in civilised discussion or do they scream cancel and actively go out of their way to have a person fired and his/her life ruined? There's no engaging in a conversation when one side comes to the table frothing at the mouth. Reminds me of the British Para operation in Sierra Leone to negotiate the hostage release of captured soldiers from the notorious West Side Boys, the operations commander went to meet the leader of the West Side Boys and when he walked up to the make shift table on the edge of the jungle he spotted heads on spikes around the west Side boys leader, turned around and reported that there was no talking to these people and Operation Barras was a go…



To make it clear, I have no problems with purple haired people, trans people etc, I'm a thoroughly pleasant chap to everyone I meet and I've met and known some colourful characters in my time, where the line is crossed and all gates are open is when these people attempt to impose their skewed view of the world on me or others.


Try to answer why his point that an alien fur ball needs to have more of a feminine look instead. You do nothing of that sort. Instead you stick your head in the sand and turn to name calling. If people could take these issues seriously and listen we wouldn't need this fired up debate.



Of course an alien furball doesn't need to look like some lunatic with tits in a furry suit, but we don't have pictures of the original designs he disagreed with and only have the assumption based on his public persona that it wasn't gender neutral enough for him. Lets be clear here, the final design looks perfectly acceptable and so what if there's small nudges of femineity in there it's what helps differentiate the "sexes" for the vast majority of people, artists have been doing it since they put pen to paper ffs so why should we change it now to suit a few radicals who want to remove what makes a female a female in the physical sense.
 
I actually agree with the design move. Ratchet and Rivet oddly share inventory. It is more believable that they can wear the same armor with the designs they went with rather than having Rivet have 6 giant cat titties.
 
These guys are mentally ill. So concerned about less feminine woman with tiny tits. Well guess what some women have big tits and they don't like them or are embarrassed by them. Just look up the number of woman who get breast reduction therapy.

Shouldn't we be supporting these guys too with some big curvy representation in our games 😂

Anyway this is all bollix and modern day Nazis with mental illnesses are having meltdowns in their own little bubbles. I hope Sony and insomniac ignore this and don't add any fuel to their fires.

If these weirdos have now left insomniac the studio is in a better place. Imo this is the way forward for the industry. Ignore the nut jobs and let them leave and join some woke studio so they can all make boring games nobody cares about.
 
KungFucius said:
I actually agree with the design move. Ratchet and Rivet oddly share inventory. It is more believable that they can wear the same armor with the designs they went with rather than having Rivet have 6 giant cat titties.
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Or maybe they should have a more important game discussion and used the company time and resources effectively instead of this ridiculous detail that can be agreed on in 5 minutes if this was a Japanese studio.
 
RJMacready73 said:
Do the people on Twitter that go after any sign of "transphobia" engage in civilised discussion or do they scream cancel and actively go out of their way to have a person fired and his/her life ruined? There's no engaging in a conversation when one side comes to the table frothing at the mouth. Reminds me of the British Para operation in Sierra Leone to negotiate the hostage release of captured soldiers from the notorious West Side Boys, the operations commander went to meet the leader of the West Side Boys and when he walked up to the make shift table on the edge of the jungle he spotted heads on spikes around the west Side boys leader, turned around and reported that there was no talking to these people and Operation Barras was a go…
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No bad things doesn't become a good thing. This is not a hostile war situation and I reacted to the way you referred to a person you have never met. Ofcourse I don't think people can behave in any way they want no matter the opinion. I don't think it's good to chop someones head off either. I just react on the over the top reaction to this matter. If we collectively try to have a more nuanced debate we can actually focus on what he is saying and avoid hyperbole people on both sides.

RJMacready73 said:
To make it clear, I have no problems with purple haired people, trans people etc, I'm a thoroughly pleasant chap to everyone I meet and I've met and known some colourful characters in my time, where the line is crossed and all gates are open is when these people attempt to impose their skewed view of the world on me or others.

Of course an alien furball doesn't need to look like some lunatic with tits in a furry suit, but we don't have pictures of the original designs he disagreed with and only have the assumption based on his public persona that it wasn't gender neutral enough for him. Lets be clear here, the final design looks perfectly acceptable and so what if there's small nudges of femineity in there it's what helps differentiate the "sexes" for the vast majority of people, artists have been doing it since they put pen to paper ffs so why should we change it now to suit a few radicals who want to remove what makes a female a female in the physical sense.
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I agree with you and think it is better if you just explain how you view it. Then I can try to understand you. Agree or disagree with you. I also think his story left out important parts as to what was changed, was the character changed at all or did they listen to him and his colleagues in the end? It's hard to know and I really think it is necessary to be able to think anything about it. It's all the other stuff I think is wrong. As you say, you seem to be a reasonable guy and it would be nice to see that more in this forum. It's not only you that react so strong to this.

I wrote an answer to JumpMan1981 explaining more how I view the matter. Thank you for your response.
 
That person tried to push design through ideological arguments and the leads did not take the arguments (how does making a character less feminine better shows that anyone can be a hero? It doesn't unless you live in the world of the woke).

Anyway, it's out of place to come out this way on something like that. As someone who works on projects as part of a big team I know that sometimes the ideas I pitch will not be accepted.

This person should go work for EA or something, I heard that they gave bonuses to people who pushed woke ideas in the design of Battlefield 5.
 
alabtrosMyster said:
That person tried to push design through ideological arguments and the leads did not take the arguments (how does making a character less feminine better shows that anyone can be a hero? It doesn't unless you live in the world of the woke).

Anyway, it's out of place to come out this way on something like that. As someone who works on projects as part of a big team I know that sometimes the ideas I pitch will not be accepted.

This person should go work for EA or something, I heard that they gave bonuses to people who pushed woke ideas in the design of Battlefield 5.
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What is worse is this:
I finally pulled one of the framed Ratchet and Clank posters down from the wall, put it in front of both leads, and told them to look at the damn thing
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I imagine he felt like a woke hero doing this.
 
jigglet said:
Imagine interviewing this guy. Imagine having to worry about every private design conversation / debate being aired publicly. Fuck that shit. I'd rather talk to a wall. I will repeat: his views have merit. I mean I actually agree with him in many, many ways. But jesus christ the way he deals with it is a fucking professional embarrassment. I've seen shit handled more maturely in the school yard.
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One of my thoughts too. This would be a nightmare of a person to have a connection with. Air out everything you've ever said to get some "Woke" Kudos on Twitter. It doesn't seem like an argument to me but.. He goes out of his way to remind us DEFINITELY was an argument and not a discussion.
Always have to be on guard around this kind of person because this type of person will use you however he can to get ahead. More followers, more recognition, more money doesn't matter. This type of person will always harm you for their benefit.
Just seems like he wants attention.
 
SlimySnake said:
She's still a bit curvy but doesnt have an ass of a colombian hooker or tits of a greek goddess. If what he's saying is true and the directors were so fucking sexist and hostile then this would not have been the final design.
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Why can't Colombian hookers and Greek godesses represent women?

I know the answers, but I still like to ear them for a laugh from time to time.
 
daTRUballin said:
Bit of an awkward comparison considering the left have many ideals that "nosy church gossips" aren't exactly fond of lol
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But we're not talking about ideals, we're talking about how people conduct themselves on behalf of their ideals. In embracing the attitude that "my ideals are better, so I'm justified in forcing them on other people," the left are quite evidently becoming the proud inheritors of the church-going puritan zeal.
 
SlimySnake said:
Ratchet's Game Director and Art Director wanted Rivet to look feminine. This guy and two others did not. Sounds like any other workplace disagreement but the fact that he publicly throws his bosses under the bus just rubs me the wrong way. There is nothing wrong with what they did. They are the directors. It's THEIR game, but this guy is making it sound like they were sexist and blatantly uses the Blizzard Activision sexual harassments lawsuits to make a point that there are other types of sexual discrimination taking place in the industry that we dont know about. As if making a female character feminine will somehow lead to hostile workplace environments and sexual harassments of women.












Pretty shameful stuff. This is why devs shouldnt even worry about female characters imo. You will never please these idiots.

That last quote is something. No, putting tits on rivet harms no one. If you are taking offense to it, you have other issues that you need to get sorted out.
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Western game devs 101.
 
Ok I think the real elephant in the room is this: ultimately they went with his preference. The director may very well have, after the debate, agreed with his point of view. After all, being the director, he's the one that would have had the final say.

So there's a real possibility the director is in complete agreement, and this guy is simply wanting to throw shit at him for having the audacity to argue with him in the first place.
 
jigglet said:
Ok I think the real elephant in the room is this: ultimately they went with his preference. The director may very well have, after the debate, agreed with his point of view. After all, being the director, he's the one that would have had the final say.

So there's a real possibility the director is in complete agreement, and this guy is simply wanting to throw shit at him for having the audacity to argue with him in the first place.
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That's the biggest problem here. This guy is being propped up as a hero for calling out Insomniac on 'their shit' yet they agreed with him. Heaven fucking forbid there be any debate or other ideas brought to the table. People disagreed with him now he feels the need to shit all over his fellow colleagues. Disgusting behavior.
 
BigSquanch said:
Well it looks like Rivet didn't end up stereotypically feminine, and I don't recall anyone complaining about that.
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Exactly. No one ever cares until they make this an SJW issue.

Remember 20 years ago when they introduced Joanna Dark, a strong, intelligent, independent woman that wasn't overly sexualised? No one cared. People loved it.

People only get upset when the far left want to put the spotlight on it and make it a symbol of their cause. They like to draw lines and categorise people. You're right, no one cared until this fuck face decided to draw lines for: reasons.
 
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jigglet said:
Exactly. No one ever cares until they make this an SJW issue.

Remember 20 years ago when they introduced Joanna Dark, a strong, intelligent, independent woman that wasn't overly sexualised? No one cared. People loved it.

People only get upset when the far left want to put the spotlight on it and make it a symbol of their cause. They like to draw lines and categorise people. You're right, no one cared until this fuck face decided to draw lines for: reasons.
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He's the star of his own little movie. Look at his hair, look at his Tweets. He threw his coworkers under the bus for attention. "Look at me! Look how awesome I am. Also I'm kinda a victim too! Please pat me on the back everyone!"
 
hemo memo said:
What is worse is this:

I imagine he felt like a woke hero doing this.
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As I reached for the poster my thoughts spiraled, what was I thinking. Will this make my point? Should I stop now? To late, it was in my hand and I was powerless to stop it. "THWAP"… The paper slammed the desk loosing the sound of 4000 years of oppression. "Take a look at this!"
I drew my hand back, they were shaking and I could feel a tingle at the length of my fingers, a light pain where they to had hit the desk to hard.
Slowly lifted my head to see that not only were their eyes locked to the poster. They were frozen. Unable to move due to shock. My righteous deed had done what it needed to do. The message was received and I was invigorated. My posture straightened as if lifted be a benevolent force.

"Now" I swallowed deep, nervous and filled adrenaline "scrape those tits off and let's make a Lombax that doesn't have tits."… TBC
 
BreakOut said:
As I reached for the poster my thoughts spiraled, what was I thinking. Will this make my point? Should I stop now? To late, it was in my hand and I was powerless to stop it. "THWAP"… The paper slammed the desk loosing the sound of 4000 years of oppression. "Take a look at this!"
I drew my hand back, they were shaking and I could feel a tingle at the length of my fingers, a light pain where they to had hit the desk to hard.
Slowly lifted my head to see that not only were their eyes locked to the poster. They were frozen. Unable to move due to shock. My righteous deed had done what it needed to do. The message was received and I was invigorated. My posture straightened as if lifted be a benevolent force.

"Now" I swallowed deep, nervous and filled adrenaline "scrape those tits off and let's make a Lombax that doesn't have tits."… TBC
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"Women and minorities of the world.... you are welcome."

Morning Show Sunglasses GIF by Kinda Funny
 
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BreakOut said:
As I reached for the poster my thoughts spiraled, what was I thinking. Will this make my point? Should I stop now? To late, it was in my hand and I was powerless to stop it. "THWAP"… The paper slammed the desk loosing the sound of 4000 years of oppression. "Take a look at this!"
I drew my hand back, they were shaking and I could feel a tingle at the length of my fingers, a light pain where they to had hit the desk to hard.
Slowly lifted my head to see that not only were their eyes locked to the poster. They were frozen. Unable to move due to shock. My righteous deed had done what it needed to do. The message was received and I was invigorated. My posture straightened as if lifted be a benevolent force.

"Now" I swallowed deep, nervous and filled adrenaline "scrape those tits off and let's make a Lombax that doesn't have tits."… TBC
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lmfao that's the best thing I've read all day
 
Actually how is this a loss for Insomniac in any way?

If his input wasn't listened to, then the design of Rivet is widely praised.
If his input was listened to, why is he bitching?
 
cormack12 said:
Actually how is this a loss for Insomniac in any way?

If his input wasn't listened to, then the design of Rivet is widely praised.
If his input was listened to, why is he bitching?
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www.neogaf.com

Ex-Insomniac dev throws his bosses under the bus over Rivet's design being too feminine.

I have not played the game so I can not speak for all of them but one of the suits have slight differences between the Lombaxes. Rivet's suit has a wider (to take her hips into account) and thinner "belt" and a smaller codpiece. The eyebrows. So stereotypical!
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com
 
Imagine you work at one of the top game development studios, making beloved and award winning games, a studio that recently just made their latest games with supposedly little to no crunch making them and outliner in an industry known for overworking employees.

And you leave because your are mad the space furry in the game looks too feminine
 
Something as simple as putting titties on a space rat can harm people.
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Hahahahaha. It's already a hilarious statement on its own, but it gets even funnier because the guy seems to be serious about it.

Honestly, it's just a disgruntled ex employee wanting to be part of the conversation.
 
Two ways to read this:

1) The current female design is what this guy wanted. The current design clearly looks female. Now the directors come in and argue "Where my tits and hips at?" In which case I can understand the guy to a degree. Female characters don't need to look hyperfeminine. Personally I'm turned off by explicit titilation if it seems unnecessary to the setting and story; this is different from attractive character designs. One of the reasons why I prefer Xenoblade Chronicles' character designs much over those from the 2nd entry. A dramatic moment becomes less dramatic and serious with tits out and half naked.

2) The current design is the "more feminine" design the directors wanted. In which case the guy seems like a lunatic because there is definitely nothing sexualized about it.

To me it seems like GAF is largely assuming the 2nd. From the wording it appears the 1st is the case however.
 
Fbh said:
Imagine you work at one of the top game development studios, making beloved and award winning games, a studio that recently just made their latest games with supposedly little to no crunch making them and outliner in an industry known for overworking employees.

And you leave because your are mad the space furry in the game looks too feminine
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Lmao now you put it like that I hope all that confused pussy that's he won't be getting was worth it
 
Maybe the guys fictional? A paid shill by one of the competiton? And we're all getting worked up over nothing because it's simply good old fashioned industrial grade console warring. 😜👍🏻

Take down Sony's incredibly successful prize possessio, Insomniac 👍🏻👍🏻

Haha, I kid, I kid. Had a blunt.
 
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