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[lastplayed]

The military isn't interested in past fights, or current fights. They want to chase hypothetical boogeymen like China and Russia. You don't need to spend $400 billion on an aircraft to have it be effective at fighting ISIS. The main reason the AF keeps giving for the phasing out of the A10 is that it "wouldn't survive against modern air defenses." Okay, how many conflicts do you realistically see the U.S. getting into against opponents with modern defenses? And of those countries, how many are such a big deal that the other numerous tools in the toolbox (B1, B2, F22, Super Hornet etc...) can't handle it?

The military industrial complex in the US is broken as fuck. At least in the past, it produced great stuff for the absurd amount of money being given. Now, they can't even get most projects out of the concept stage (FCS, as an example). Those that do are horribly over budget and behind schedule.

Why do the Marines even need a VTOL version launched from a pocket carrier? Because the armed forces can't share assets/capabilities and despise each other. Completely dysfunctional.

You gotta keep up with the Russians and their scary new stealth fighter... all 12 of them.

 

[GodofWine]

We could fill the sky with F15s, F16s, and A10s for the change between the cushions of this program.

Also, the aircraft carrier just launched to SPECIFICALLY support this plan needs to go to dry dock for a year for upgrades, because the VTOL thrust melts the deck, which they ASSUMED would only need to be built to the harrier jets specs

 

[Ollie Pooch]

$400 billion on something that doesn't actually work. Makes sense. #moneywellspent

 

[commedieu]

We could fill the sky with F15s, F16s, and A10s for the change between the cushions of this program.

Also, the aircraft carrier just launched to SPECIFICALLY support this plan needs to go to dry dock for a year for upgrades, because the VTOL thrust melts the deck, which they ASSUMED would only need to be built to the harrier jets specs

These are the people delivering Democracy.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Makes me wonder if there will ever be another manned fighter made. Its ridiculous how much this program has cost and yielding as a result.

 

[Irnbru]

The a10s were recently upgraded too with new wings

 

[ReAxion]

scrap it, let's do stealth helicarriers

 

[bonesmccoy]

You guys just don't appreciate the stakes.

If this program is cancelled, the Russians have won.

 

[Darkangel]

The F-35 has been a messy program but I think it will turn out alright in the end. Having a shared platform will surely come in handy as time goes on and more are produced. I don't think the US military will ever try something like this again though.

As for the A-10, it's a cool aircraft but is pretty much only good at fighting 3rd world countries. Without air superiority its a bit of a sitting duck.

 

[Setsuna]

Hey guys remember all the problems the f 16 had at launch? You know that small time period when the plane was having troubles leaving the runway

 

[TacticalFox88]

This plane's a piece of shit, but let's not be delusional and think the F-15,F-16,F-18 don't need to be replaced.

 

[j_k_redtail]

It's amazing how far behind this thing is. When I was in the Air Force in 2004 the rumor was that the F-35 was going to replace the aging F-15c's we had (from 1978). The Air Force announced that the rumors were true in 2006, and in 2015...they still haven't been delivered.

It's on the same development timeline as FFXV.

 

[lastplayed]

This plane's a piece of shit, but let's not be delusional and think the F-15,F-16,F-18 don't need to be replaced.

F/A-18 already got replaced with the Super Hornet, that'll be good for a while. Then there's the F-22.

 

[aliengmr]

The F-35 has been a messy program but I think it will turn out alright in the end. Having a shared platform will surely come in handy as time goes on and more are produced. I don't think the US military will ever try something like this again though.

As for the A-10, it's a cool aircraft but is pretty much only good at fighting 3rd world countries. Without air superiority its a bit of a sitting duck.

True, but its tough as nails and could sustain much more damage than the newer aircraft. Seems to me, it would be wise to keep around a work horse that can fight the fights we're having today instead of replacing it with something that is more expensive and, in the best case scenario, might be comparable.

 

[Log4Girlz]

The F-35 has been a messy program but I think it will turn out alright in the end. Having a shared platform will surely come in handy as time goes on and more are produced. I don't think the US military will ever try something like this again though.

As for the A-10, it's a cool aircraft but is pretty much only good at fighting 3rd world countries. Without air superiority its a bit of a sitting duck.

It'll just cost a few trillion dollars.

 

[RSTEIN]

This program is so crazy and fucked up I'm convinced that it's all a ruse to fund some secret tech or something.

 

[Starviper]

I really wonder if there is any rational reason for continuing to support the F-35 program, it just seems like an all around waste of money. Are they trying to set a record for money wasted?

 

[Flo_Evans]

I refuse to believe this plane actually sucks this bad.

I hope they are intentionally making it seem like shit to give other countries a false sense of security.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

F/A-18 already got replaced with the Super Hornet, that'll be good for a while. Then there's the F-22.

F-22 production stopped before 200 were produced. USAF operates thousands of fighters. They would need to restart production in a big way to get that done and it would only be appropriate to replace those aircraft in the air superiority role. You might make an argument that you can get by with a smaller number of stealth aircraft then use cheaper models to fill in the gaps. This is probably true for COIN ops and knocking over developing countries, but the military is not going to reconfigure itself on the assumption that it doesn't need to fight a tough opponent ever again. At current rates of production the F35 variants cost between 66 and 70% of the cost of an F22. Future rates of production are estimated at 60% of the cost (~90 million per unit vs ~150 million).

If they were going to cancel the F35, it needed to be done maybe five or six years ago. At this point they might as well go ahead with it because any other modernisation program will wind up costing more on top of what they've already spent.

True, but its tough as nails and could sustain much more damage than the newer aircraft. Seems to me, it would be wise to keep around a work horse that can fight the fights we're having today instead of replacing it with something that is more expensive and, in the best case scenario, might be comparable.

The A-10 has a place in the services, but the airframes are getting too old. It would ideally be replaced by another A-10 style aircraft that has been modernised. However it is politically unrealistic to get new programs like this started up. Part of the motivation for the F-35 being "IT DOES EVERYTHING FOR EVERYONE" was because if it was a single massive program, it would be harder to kill it because you would then be killing the replacement for every plane under the sun and pissing every branch off in the process.

 

[AmyS]

It's too bad the U.S. Navy did not go with these

Naval ATF and A-12 Avenger II.

Strike Raptor for the U.S. Air Force.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Weird how slow the military moves when it comes to weapons systems. You figure with all the wars we've been involved with they would be faster.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Weird how slow the military moves when it comes to weapons systems. You figure with all the wars we've been involved with they would be faster.

If there was a giant global war, things would be moving at a lightning pace comparatively with multiple competing projects for everything. But part of the reason is that it just genuinely takes some projects a long time to develop. You didn't have to design an entire electronics and software suite for a WWII fighter plane, and even those could take years to reach production using mature, proven technologies.

 

[TAJ]

Plus there's the lag between the drone operator issuing commands and the drone performing those actions, which I don't think can really be solved.

Of course it can. Just eliminate the operator. It solves all of your security issues, too.
There are legal and moral issues with it, but when has that ever stopped us?

 

[Alucrid]

Of course it can. Just eliminate the operator. It solves all of your security issues, too.
There are legal and moral issues with it, but when has that ever stopped us?

We bought too many xbox 360 controllers

 

[AmyS]

We bought too many xbox 360 controllers

Watch this clip from the movie Good Kill with Ethan Hawke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ4lcUG9L2c

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Hey but let's not people on food stamps buy seafood or steak.

 

[Ptaaty]

Weird how slow the military moves when it comes to weapons systems. You figure with all the wars we've been involved with they would be faster.

This is because of the absurd regulations and hoops to jump through. It is a terrible mix of reactionary and every increasing procurement and testing requirements combined with the budget structure / process.

 

[Condom]

Well we were about to drop out the project here until they discovered all kinds of signed contracts which pretty much forced us to buy the damn things.

So it's not only the US getting scammed, a lot of European countries got fucked too.

At least the US still has a lot of superior and exclusive jets.