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Face-Off: Evolve - PC/PS4/X1

Wait, they are saying it took them 20 minutes at one point for matchmaking on the PS4?

And people are believing it?

Exactly what I thought earlier. Like I said, it's not just me that's thinking about what DF has said about it:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=152036624&postcount=12
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=152036675&postcount=16
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=152037071&postcount=39

Prime examples. There are tons more in this very same thread.
 
Exactly what I thought earlier. Like I said, it's not just me that's thinking about what DF has said about it:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=152036624&postcount=12
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=152036675&postcount=16
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=152037071&postcount=39

Prime examples. There are tons more in this very same thread.

You caught em bro, they were so either lying or taking that sweet sweet MS $$. I'm adding Eurogamer to my ban list, damn hacks.

2nd link isn't saying anything in regards to your point. But I'm still never trusting M$ Eurogamer!
 
I know right, why would people believe that. Surely, they are lying or took mad money from MS. Right?

It is 100% impossible for something like that to happen, hell you can ask Halo or Driveclub players, shit like that just doesn't happen.

Still not sure what I find more silly. The Face-Off discussing a minor 'infrastructure' issue that they experienced or people going full conspiracy mode on it potentially occurring.

Yeah, because thats what I said.

So you believe that its taking them this long to matchmake?

EDIT: nevermind, you are very confrontational and seem quite invested in this, disregard.
 
So that explains why I didn't get to see any actual gameplay yesterday while watching Evolve streams on PS4. Top 3 streams and EVERYONE was in that "Loading/waiting for other players" screen and I thought what the hell were they just waiting for there. I switched between those three and there had to be like 15 minutes before the first one got forward and finally moved to the monster selection. There are definitely some problems going on with PSN concerning this game.
 
If the matchmaking times are that terrible on PS4 then it is absolutely worth mentioning in a Face-off article and it should affect the final recommendation. It's a multiplayer title after all and connectivity is inherently a technical issue.
 
If the matchmaking times are that terrible on PS4 then it is absolutely worth mentioning in a Face-off article and it should affect the final recommendation. It's a multiplayer title after all and connectivity is inherently a technical issue.

Except that it's not really consistent. I think that's the real problem--if you're doing it for this, you should do it for Destiny, Titanfall, etc--anything with an online focus. Also note the type of connection hardware and the environment where they are, etc.

If they want to include connectivity as a part of the analysis, cool, but the picking and choosing is what's rubbing some people the wrong way.
 
Except that it's not really consistent. I think that's the real problem--if you're doing it for this, you should do it for Destiny, Titanfall, etc--anything with an online focus. Also note the type of connection hardware and the environment where they are, etc.

If they want to include connectivity as a part of the analysis, cool, but the picking and choosing is what's rubbing some people the wrong way.

It's not picking and choosing if there are no appreciable differences in connectivity between platforms. If the connectivity issues were present or absent from all platforms then there would be nothing to talk about. Were there any differences in connectivity in Destiny, for example?
 
Except that it's not really consistent. I think that's the real problem--if you're doing it for this, you should do it for Destiny, Titanfall, etc--anything with an online focus. Also note the type of connection hardware and the environment where they are, etc.

If they want to include connectivity as a part of the analysis, cool, but the picking and choosing is what's rubbing some people the wrong way.

Because is a graphics comparison. It's ok if they talk about other things only when the difference is so big.
 
If the matchmaking times are that terrible on PS4 then it is absolutely worth mentioning in a Face-off article and it should affect the final recommendation. It's a multiplayer title after all and connectivity is inherently a technical issue.

Sure, but it is also incumbent upon DF to actually have enough data to support their claim. Their experience could just as easily be caused by a bug in their router, a temporary spike at their isp or any number of other environmental or situational effects. We have plenty of people disputing their characterization of the PSN experience suggesting their results are so abnormal as to be suspect. To actually single out PSN would require many tests from multiple locations on various connections and network environments for both services before any useful conclusion is possible.
 
Results do not surprise me as that's been my experience as well with Xbox Live imo better than PSN, and no, that's not being a warrior but from my experience.
 
Sure, but it is also incumbent upon DF to actually have enough data to support their claim. Their experience could just as easily be caused by a bug in their router, a temporary spike at their isp or any number of other environmental or situational effects. We have plenty of people disputing their characterization of the PSN experience suggesting their results are so abnormal as to be suspect. To actually single out PSN would require many tests from multiple locations on various connections and network environments for both services before any useful conclusion is possible.

This is the thing.

If they are going to suddenly factor something like this in then they should at least substantiate it. If not it has no place in a factual technical analysis.
 
If you feel the network part of the face off is irrelevant and have confidence that it won't be a problem for you you're free to ignore it.
(and to discuss and question it.)

But yeah, if it's problematic in some way, I personally don't think its inclusion would be a reasonable thing to question so much as accuracy.
 
This is the thing.

If they are going to suddenly factor something like this in then they should at least substantiate it. If not it has no place in a factual technical analysis.
Isn't Evolve an online-only game? That might explain its inclusion, perhaps.

There's aren't many full retail games like this that ship as online only experiences. Titanfall did but that was exclusive and its problems weren't really networking related.
 
DF trying hard to keep their comparisons relevant.

Yea it is cool to examinate each versions strengths and shortcomings and there should be a place for it for those people that have a interest in it, but doing it in a PS4 vs Xbone vs PC fashion becomes more and more laughable when time passes, expecially when PC has been dominating since the start. And the fact the the Xbone is simply a weaker PC then the PS4.

The days of 360 vs PS3 are over and so should these DF vs articles.
 
Isn't Evolve an online-only game? That might explain its inclusion, perhaps.

It's more online-orientated, like Left 4 Dead: you can play offline with bots if you so desire but there's nothing you'd call a single-player campaign.
 
jpg

jpg

No cloud shadows on PS4 ?

jpg

jpg

Why no reflection ?

They're both there in the game, sometimes shadows don't appear, it looks to be a bug on PS4 and PC.
 
Sure, but it is also incumbent upon DF to actually have enough data to support their claim. Their experience could just as easily be caused by a bug in their router, a temporary spike at their isp or any number of other environmental or situational effects. We have plenty of people disputing their characterization of the PSN experience suggesting their results are so abnormal as to be suspect. To actually single out PSN would require many tests from multiple locations on various connections and network environments for both services before any useful conclusion is possible.

I would assume that all platforms are connected to the same network, the same router and the same isp. That is the standard methodology in order to eliminate the influence of outside factors and I trust that the DF crew is professional enough to test multiple times before printing the article. Their methodology when comparing graphics and framerate is professional and objective (not infallible of course but with a reasonable margin of error) so I really see no reason to believe that their methodology when testing connectivity is sloppy and amateurish. Do you?

As for the fact that some users contradict the DF claims, this happens every time and with everything. There needs to be a significant number of people with some degree of proof before we can cry foul.
 
Amazing. They just keep digging deeper and deeper into the sht pile. Almost as if they are trolling players on purpose.

Resolution and performance are really all we needed to hear. Wonder why they used the purely subjective 'online experience' as the meter of judgment.

A little too transparent this time DF
 
I would assume that all platforms are connected to the same network, the same router and the same isp. That is the standard methodology in order to eliminate the influence of outside factors and I trust that the DF crew is professional enough to test multiple times before printing the article. Their methodology when comparing graphics and framerate is professional and objective (not infallible of course but with a reasonable margin of error) so I really see no reason to believe that their methodology when testing connectivity is sloppy and amateurish. Do you?

As for the fact that some users contradict the DF claims, this happens every time and with everything. There needs to be a significant number of people with some degree of proof before we can cry foul.
Sorry Alexandros but not only is that naive it's not acceptable to have to "have faith" they were robust in connectivity tests. Not for a professional site.

Just as they publish how the conduct their technical analysis for a start if they want to include connectivity in their conclusions they need to publish and clarify their approach and make clear they are robust.

As it stands purely on the content of the article their statement about connectivity is anecdotal and it is therefore no better or worse than similar posts on GAF.

You never assume because a specialist is good at X they will automatically be just as robust as Y. It's just not acceptable professionally.

I have no issue with them analysing connectivity but it has to be do it properly and publish and make clear you're doing it properly or don't do it at all.

At the end of the day the article in this area is clearly flawed as they make an anecdotal observation - a seems to be - and then include it in their conclusions alongside what they position as empirical observations. That's highly amateurish and it shouldn't be defended.

For all I know they ran their tests on PS4 in the morning and Xbox in the afternoon and the PS4 issues were down to time of day and their connection.

It won't do. They need to put forward clear evidence of multiple connection tests and concurrent time of day/connection tests to remotely include this as anything other than an "off the cuff" observation.

As I noted in earlier post if they'd noted they thought they'd had connection issues and would dig into it further and left it at that it would be fine. Likewise just noting it as an observation without full checking.

But to use is within conclusions they needed to provide clarity and confidence in their methodology and they didn't from my reading of the article.

Therefore it's anecdotal. They don't get a free pass because they carefully test resolution or AF. For all I know their router/connection is highly variable or worse than mine.

Again no issue with the concept but their execution was too amateurish compared to their normal technical analysis and should be viewed as such.
 
Yikes, this thread is a bit crazy. :-/
Jup, feels like a standard DF thread :( These threads have become so predictable.

- PC shouldn't be include because it's not fair posts? Check.
- MS Bias confirmed due to one sentence of the article rubbing some posters the wrong way? Check.
- DF digging their own hole deeper and going further down the shitter posts? Check.
- MS confirmed as paying the developers to downgrade the PS4 graphics because reasons? Check.
 
Jup, feels like a standard DF thread :( These threads have become so predictable.

- PC shouldn't be include because it's not fair posts? Check.
- MS Bias confirmed due to one sentence of the article rubbing some posters the wrong way? Check.
- DF digging their own hole deeper and going further down the shitter posts? Check.
- MS confirmed as paying the developers to downgrade the PS4 graphics because reasons? Check.
Have we had the usual "but it's about the fun!" why are you nitpicking thevgame technically posts? Haven't seen any but maybe I missed 'em.
 
Have we had the usual "but it's about the fun!" why are you nitpicking thevgame technically posts? Haven't seen any but maybe I missed 'em.
No, but we did have "the game sucks anyway" and "the game looks bad on all platforms so who cares" IIRC.

The degree of repetitiveness of non-technical content in DF threads speaks to the defensiveness which abounds whenever a new one is published.
 
They're both there in the game, sometimes shadows don't appear, it looks to be a bug on PS4 and PC.
Is this confirmed? In the DF analisis they said the lack of certain shadows in screens was due to environmental / time of day conditions. If there really is a bug and DF didn't notice it in their comparison that would not say nothing good about their methods.
 
Is this confirmed? In the DF analisis they said the lack of certain shadows in screens was due to environmental / time of day conditions. If there really is a bug and DF didn't notice it in their comparison that would not say nothing good about their methods.

Initially we thought it was a bug on ps4 but then someone posted shots of all 3 versions where the issue was apparent on both ps4 and pc.

It certainly could be environmental changes.
 
If the matchmaking times are that terrible on PS4 then it is absolutely worth mentioning in a Face-off article and it should affect the final recommendation. It's a multiplayer title after all and connectivity is inherently a technical issue.
Because "it kinda seemed worse" is not a technical analysis. It's one thing to do a stress test or something, it's another to do a random comment based on anecdotal evidence when there's also impressions pointing the opposite. They compare visuals and performance, not review games and that just makes them sound like shills.
 
Its pretty obvious that whatever DF writes that theres a chance its not reliable, which is pretty damning considering their function

ps3ud0 8)
 
Initially we thought it was a bug on ps4 but then someone posted shots of all 3 versions where the issue was apparent on both ps4 and pc.

It certainly could be environmental changes.

The shots are from the tutorial stages of the game where the TOD is fixed and identical on all platforms.
 
I'm sure there's plenty of people who own a PC capable of playing these games have an interest in how they run and how they look including how they run and look in comparison to either console.
There's nothing in this DF article that a PC gamer does not know from the outset. It takes five minutes to tinker with settings and see how they run on your pc. Pc gamers also have way superior data out there from professional and objective sites like techspot, gur3d, anantech etc..The info DF includes is tame in comparison. These sites are consistent in their approach of comparing the non-static platform with raw objective data. They would also never venture into putting consoles on their list because that platform is it's own category. These sites have proven invaluable for years on-going.

Does anyone else remember a site from a couple years ago that compared console games? I think it might have had the word mirror in it? Man I can't remember it, they were solid.

Edit* Lensoftruth. I liked that site. Does anyone know what happened to that site?
Sadly, they went down, it was one of my favorite sites for objective data last gen, no bullshit, no spinning, no talking out the ass, just the data.

I think NXGAMER is pretty much in-line as a good alternative. He did a quick preview of dying light and basically covered everything DF had in their final analysis and even more, in a preview at that, his final analysis is still pending. He was the first one to touch on spots of uncapped framerate in dyinglight on PS4, the ghosting issues in the game and the fact that Nvidia Dof is only applied in some cutscenes and in menus on PC. Some PC enthusiasts will have you believe that they're just rolling in these Nvidia coined extra effects, more importantly this guy gave all that info only in a preview.

ibrBbBO.png


reUhdbq.png


PC version *missing* shadows as well. OMG Xbone most powerful confirmed?
Another piece to the puzzle, so I guess the more powerful platforms are weaker indeed, I mean they can't do shadows and AF(PS4) whilst xbone can. Just shows that the xbone got more love on this job, tis' all, yet the PS4 still outpaces it in Rez, framerate and AO.
 
For this type of game 30fps doesn't seem acceptable..
30fps is fine for this game, but 60 is obviously superior. 900p might be 'fine' as well, but when you consider how much easier it is to see something (particularly a Hunter as a Monster outside of smell range - very small) in the distance at a higher resolution...
But of course you'll never see that mentioned as an advantage in a DF article. It'll always be "but 900 holds up well against 1080!" Except on big TVs...
 
From the other thread about Ps4 and AF

Dev from Tripwire

4X3TdR7.png

OK, this answers the question on AF by an independent dev, some of the engines ported on Ps4 by some devs are shit is the way I read it.

So next game by Turtle Rock with their engine will also have no AF unless they can be bothered to polish it.
 
Alien: Isolation was in many ways an outlier (it appeared to underperform on consoles, while being very well optimized on PC) while Evolve, like most multiplatform games so far this generation, performs fairly predictably given what we know about the hardware on each platform. However, it is still useful to know when a game is under-/overperfoming relative to hardware expectations across all three platforms even if there isn't an exact GPU/CPU match possible between PS4 and PC, or between XB1 and PC. As far as I'm aware, DF is the only site that regularly does this across both PC and console. I'm not advocating for its absolute accuracy so much as I am for its general utility as a buyer's guide.


That's what I was pointing out to you, now you're repeating it back to me.
 
That's what I was pointing out to you, now you're repeating it back to me.

Because I'm not sure if there was ever any core disagreement. You pointed out that DF's "console-equivalent' setup isn't strictly like-for-like with a PS4. I agree, but wanted to stress that that doesn't negate the comparison's utility for someone owning a PC in that general range. Obviously, however, that utility is more clearly demonstrated when games perform somewhat unpredictably (e.g. Alien) than when they perform predictably.
 
the fact that Nvidia Dof is only applied in some cutscenes and in menus on PC

It was known right from the start.
Depth of Field is rendered almost exclusively during cut scenes and conversations
http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/guides/dying-light-graphics-and-performance-guide#dying-light-patch-1-2-1-update

HBAO+ on the other hand consistently enhances the game on PC. It's a league ahead of the solution used on the console versions of DL. :)
 
At the end of the day the article in this area is clearly flawed as they make an anecdotal observation - a seems to be - and then include it in their conclusions alongside what they position as empirical observations. That's highly amateurish and it shouldn't be defended.

I don't know, it seems to me that if during normal testing something that significant arises and they observe it, they really should report it. It may seriously affect the game's playability. Even if the issue isn't widespread or consistent, the fact that they did experience it pretty much obliges them to let the consumers know. Otherwise they are covering up a potential issue. In these cases it is always, always better to err on the side of caution.
 
I don't know, it seems to me that if during normal testing something that significant arises and they observe it, they really should report it. It may seriously affect the game's playability. Even if the issue isn't widespread or consistent, the fact that they did experience it pretty much obliges them to let the consumers know. Otherwise they are covering up a potential issue. In these cases it is always, always better to err on the side of caution.
Recommending buying the game on Xbox One because online multiplayer is not reliable on PS4 doesn't sound as a cautious statement. If they were going to mention the issue in PS4, they should have tested the game in different networks a few times and do similar tests to the Xbox One version before stating that there is a difference.
 
Because I'm not sure if there was ever any core disagreement. You pointed out that DF's "console-equivalent' setup isn't strictly like-for-like with a PS4. I agree, but wanted to stress that that doesn't negate the comparison's utility for someone owning a PC in that general range. Obviously, however, that utility is more clearly demonstrated when games perform somewhat unpredictably (e.g. Alien) than when they perform predictably.

I have no problem with the 750ti being used in the testing, an entry level gaming card is very interesting and the article is generally sound. You posted how if a user has a mid range PC and a PS4 it probably should be the PS4 based on this article but I would say the PS4 is a poor choice, even more so when a mid range card can play on high and very high throughout and PS4 has very poor AF and looks like medium settings in some areas. I don't know if the odd wording used in the article had swayed you into thinking the game is somewhat demanding and lead you to that conclusion initially.
 
Recommending buying the game on Xbox One because online multiplayer is not reliable on PS4 doesn't sound as a cautious statement. If they were going to mention the issue in PS4, they should have tested the game in different networks a few times and do similar tests to the Xbox One version before stating that there is a difference.
They're not recommending one console over the other at all. They say that the pros and cons of both platforms make it hard to really recommend one version over the other. If you really read that as them recommending the Xbox One version over the PS4 version then maybe it's time to take a step back.
 
They're not recommending one console over the other at all. They say that the pros and cons of both platforms make it hard to really recommend one version over the other. If you really read that as them recommending the Xbox One version over the PS4 version then maybe it's time to take a step back.
If we're doing online infastructures might as well add install times and share play for the hell of it. Being able to try the game out without downloading it is amazing, amirite?
 
They're not recommending one console over the other at all. They say that the pros and cons of both platforms make it hard to really recommend one version over the other. If you really read that as them recommending the Xbox One version over the PS4 version then maybe it's time to take a step back.

Yup. Not only that but the coverage of Evolve's matchmaking by DF is not a new development. Previous Evolve DF articles made mention of the game's connectivity and matchmaking performance, with the article about the beta in particular mentioning clearly that there were issues with the PS4 version's matchmaking. Here's a quote from the previous article:

Getting stuck into the multiplayer portion available, the good news is that online stability has clearly improved over the code showcased late last year, although not to the extent that we'd hoped so close to the game's launch. Of the two console versions, it's the PS4 game that currently feels as though it needs a little more work, particularly in terms of general matchmaking. Right now, quickly getting into a game on Sony's system is often an inconsistent process: sometimes we were matched up with other players in under a minute, sometimes we were left waiting up to 20 minutes. In comparison, matchmaking generally took between a few seconds and maximum of five minutes on Xbox One and PC.

DF is informing people that the PS4 version is the better looking of the two console versions but they can't give an outright recommendation because of connectivity issues observed and not fixed ever since the beta. They quite clearly tested all three versions. What else were they supposed to do? Pretend like they didn't come across any issues? Would that really have been better for the consumer? It would be better for those who desperately want to see the PS4 "win" (that is, get second place) but it would be a disservice to the readers.
 
Jup, feels like a standard DF thread :( These threads have become so predictable.

- PC shouldn't be include because it's not fair posts? Check.
- MS Bias confirmed due to one sentence of the article rubbing some posters the wrong way? Check.
- DF digging their own hole deeper and going further down the shitter posts? Check.
- MS confirmed as paying the developers to downgrade the PS4 graphics because reasons? Check.
No one said MS paid them but when things like this happen without any clear reason, it's hard not to feel... confused.
 
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