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Falklands 'will be under our control in 20 years', says Argentine foreign minister.
- Thread starter Lonely1
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Instigator
Banned
English-speaking forum takes English-speaking side.
I would have never guessed it.
I would have never guessed it.
Then, praytell, what exactly is the legal justification for Argentina taking control of an island that they have never controlled, against the wishes of the population living there?
Kinky John
Member
It has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with the fact that NeoGAF is a fair and just place.
CyclopsRock
Member
Aside from anything else, after 82 the Falklands has become more or less the most well defended rock in the southern hermisphere. It has a proper runway, 4 of the most advanced fighters jets in the world, and more squaddies than a brothel on a trip into port. Meanwhile, the Argentinian military has been forced to cut back due to financial realities. In 82, the distance from the UK really evened the odds to the point where the Task Force sent from Europe only just about won - we just didn't have the power projection capabilities to do a mission like that for much longer. Nowadays the Falklands is a pretty significantly armed area in its own right, and we now have planes that can conduct missions from Ascension Islands. The RAF base on the Falklands knows more about what's going on in Argentinian air space than the Argentinians do, or so I understand. It really is a non-issue, it's just annoying that it makes some people's lives harder because they have to pretend they haven't docked there (or whatever).
I'm not English and I don't see how Argentina is in the right.
Why does the Argentinian government has the right to take islands it never controlled, inhabited by British people since hundreds of years.
I'm French and we were the first one to colonize the islands, we give them the Malvinas name(Malouines in French), yet that doesn't give us the right to have them, same for Argentina even if Spain used to control the islands.
Sephiroth503
Member
Don't think this has anything to do with it to be honest. They have a vote coming up soon AFAIK and we can pretty sure they will vote to remain British putting an end to any and all possibility of them joining Argentina. When Argentina invaded before they effectively made sure the British flag would remain in place.
Instigator
Banned
Past settlement from Spain
The claim Argentina had legal rights from Spain upon independence
Britain's historic meddling in not only Argentina but Latin America as a whole.
Sure, Argentina's leadership have used the dispute to stir up nationalistic passion at home before, but to say Argentina has absolutely no legal basis at all is silly. The issue is 200 years old and didn't just start in 1982.
The claim Argentina had legal rights from Spain upon independence
Britain's historic meddling in not only Argentina but Latin America as a whole.
Sure, Argentina's leadership have used the dispute to stir up nationalistic passion at home before, but to say Argentina has absolutely no legal basis at all is silly. The issue is 200 years old and didn't just start in 1982.
ElectricBlue187
Member
I hope this island sinks beneath the waves from global warming so I don't have to hear whining and counterwhining about it anymore
gutter_trash
Banned
as if the European descents living in Argentina aren't colonists themselves?
Exterminieren
Banned
That's it, ignore the sovereign rights of the citizens living in the disputed zone!
Keep winning those hearts and minds, Argentina.
I'm still trying to determine how exactly does declaring independence entitled you to another piece of land owned by your former ruler.
People live there.
Sephiroth503
Member
Argentina won't have any say in the matter. The UN charter dictates that they have right to choose how they are governed and in this case they will likely choose to keep ties with Britain. That's all there is to it.
As a fellow Argentinian I can only say: thank you so much for this. You nailed it.
Instigator
Banned
Foturnately for Argentina, no one else is seriously claming their land (save for the Falklands!) and they exterminated the native population anyway.
heliconsoul
Member
Luckily, it is. And they don't want to change a damn thing.
CyclopsRock
Member
It's the only part of what could charitably be referred to as British land where we have penguins. Fuck off is anyone else having it!
It was recognized British territory by both France and Spain before what is present day Argentina was even colonised or declared a country.
The Falklanders have a larger right to claim Argentina then the other way round.
Psychotext
Member
I think HMS Dauntless is already there.
Edit - Oh, no, it's back for tourist duties on the 10th. lol
https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-a...dar/Ships/130129-HMS-Dauntless-Great-Yarmouth
Edit - Oh, no, it's back for tourist duties on the 10th. lol
https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-a...dar/Ships/130129-HMS-Dauntless-Great-Yarmouth
Yep sent a few months ago, the other Type 45 is in the gulf.
Edit: i stand corrected, wonder if we are sending anything down there to replace it.
Argentina is not a successor state to Spain. Just because they rebelled from them doesn't mean they get to claim any old Spanish territory. Otherwise almost all of Latin America would claim each others territory, not to mention that the US would have solid grounds to claim Canada.
Instigator
Banned
That's inacurate because there were both Spanish and British settlements at that time so Spain couldn't have recognized ownership to its major colonial rival/adversary at the time. Argentina gained independence before Britain was able to (re)gain a military foothold on the islands.
As for the other statement... lol. This is NeoGAF, I gather.
There is always one frigate or destroyer on duty there, and often a couple of other ships such as a OPV and ice breaker. Rumour mill has one of the SSN's there as well.
First, there was no Spanish settlement in the Falklands. There was a garrison composed of Spanish speaking people, but it was put in place by a French/German privateer under the authority of both the colonial Spanish government and the British. Furthermore, it was established after the British claimed the island.
Second, every time this subject comes up there is some insinuation that the British in South America is illegitimate colonialism, but somehow the Spanish were never colonisers or somehow their colonialisation in South America is more legitimate. This makes no sense. The Spanish are as foreign to South America as the British are. This is particularly true for Argentina who has one of the lowest Mestizo or Indigenous populations in South America. Consequently, Argentineans are just as much "meddlers" in South America as the British are.
Third, you are right it does go back 200 years. It goes back to 1833 when the British establish complete sovereignty, and 1840 when a permanent colony was established.
It was still recognized British territory, and the reasons for duel ownerships at some small points was that there is two main islands.
Um, they all tried.
Sure, of course they tried and there are all sorts of small remnants of uncertain borders as usually happens with colonies. But that doesn't mean anyone would recognize an Argentinian claim on Chile as anything but senseless jingoism today, and it is no different with the Falklands really.
Now, now, there's no need to argue over such a silly thing. Just hand these islands back to Spain and problem solv... *independentist movement starts in the Falklands* ...not this shit again >.<
You alone have made more to improve the image that I have of the Argentinians than one thousand idiotic campora boot-lickers. Would Argentina have more citizens like you, it would be able to get out of its situation, so keep on the good fight!
Also, while CFK is embarrasing, Kicilloff is the stuff of nightmares. Shady third-rate Rasputin *shudders*
You alone have made more to improve the image that I have of the Argentinians than one thousand idiotic campora boot-lickers. Would Argentina have more citizens like you, it would be able to get out of its situation, so keep on the good fight!
Also, while CFK is embarrasing, Kicilloff is the stuff of nightmares. Shady third-rate Rasputin *shudders*
This!
It has been always a smoke screen when things go wrong in this country.
I as argentine support Falklands right to self-determination. To our government, its time to leave the islanders live their life in peace and let them choose what they want to be.
Simple as that.
Instigator
Banned
First, you're only describing one colony among many with various powers colonizing and then leaving. It certainly doesn't explain how the Brits gained a permanent hold of what we now know as the Falkland Islands.
Second, the Brits established what is now the Falklands islands by kicking out the Argentinians through military force. Then British colonization began and the descendants of those people are still there today.
Third and a bit of a side point, soldiers are not anymore illegitimate than, say, goat herders otherwise Russia and Canada would lose a lot of their claims in their distant outposts populated by either by scientists, soldiers or miners.
Both were colonizers, but Spain along with Portugal really colonize the place while the Brits remained at the peripheries as a spoiler for Spain. Brits remained a spoiler and further played the empire game even after Spain (and Portugal) retreated.
Of course, all were ruthless in their colonization efforts, but excuse me if I take the locals more seriously than the UK via their numerous overseas outposts.
You must be fun in those Tibet and Israel threads.
Instigator
Banned
It's always been a strategic outpost. Oil or no oil.
Phoenix
Member
The Falklands doesn't really support that many more people. Its a mystery to me why anyone would want to fight for it...
CyclopsRock
Member
I literally don't know what this means.
Instigator
Banned
It's near the strait of Magellan where the Atlantic and Pacific meet. It's better to actually control Argentina, but the Falklands are still nearby and not a bad consolation price. Britain was already a huge naval power at the time.
It's of similar strategic importance as South Africa (where the Atlantic and Indian oceans meet) and why Britain went to great and bloody lenghts to conquer that as well.
Phoenix
Member
Sheep breeding...
Do you really think there will be another war?
Lol, we can barely keep our railroads working, not to mention that our FFAA has been disbanded.
I doesn't matter, Britain, Spain and France were all "vying" (which is in quotes because no one really seemed to care about it until the nineteenth century) for it at the same time. The British claim goes back just as far as the Spanish one does. And again, Spain =/= Argentina.
Also, no a garrison is not a legitimate settlement. It doesn't show an intent to stay and develop a land. And anyway even if it was, it was a private French settlement, not an Argentinean one. The fact the mercenaries who made up the garrison were from Argentina doesn't make it Argentinian. You could argue that it was done under the authority of the Spanish so it would make it Spanish. But it was also done under the authority of the British so that makes it at least British as well. Finally, and again, the "Argentineans" weren't kicked out. A garrison comprised of Spanish soldiers hired by a private Frenchman were kicked out of an island previously claimed by the British.
I'm not trying to be a dick, but that's plainly ignorant. For one, North America, Australia and most of the Caribbean say hi as places that aren't "overseas outposts". For another, honestly it makes no sense at all. What does any of that have to do with the absurdity that British colonialism of South America is illegitimate, but Spanish colonialism isn't?
Um what? Tibetans are a subjugated people. Israel actively suppresses and illegally takes land from Palestinians. What does this have to do with the Falklands? There are no Argentineans being subjugated, suppressed and no land has been illegally taken. Again, the British have held claim to the Falklands before Argentina was a sovereign nation. Consequently, it's the Argentineans who are acting like the agressors in this situation.
UltraMagnanimous
Member
That is THE only consideration in this whole affair.
The Argentinians are being total cocks about this.
Instigator
Banned
Not for a second.
The UK wants to push that angle only because they'd know they'd win that referendum. Although I am not sure if Falklands count legally as an entity that can decide its own future. Probably not so the referendum would be symbolic rather than legally binding.
Of course, they never asked the people of Hong Kong what they thought when they negotiated with China over the retrocession.
My point exactly.
Nothing to control since there's no military power in the country and/or that part of the region.
Any decent person who believes in self-determination must respect the islanders's decision and that is the end of it all.
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